Help with .308 barrel choice

SeantheDruid

Hello,

I'm looking for an aftermarket barrel that will best fit my (somewhat) customized Remington 700 rifle.

The original 700 action has been kept and the stock has been changed in favour of the Accuracy International Chassis system for Remy 700s.

The purpose of the finished item will be to serve exclusively as a target rifle.

I'm thinking along the lines of a Krieger, or other manufacturer of that standard, in 30 inches, preferably non-contoured and heavy.

I'm hoping for some helpful advice from the informed target shooters here on barrel selection --- make, length, availability for Remy action, etc --- so thanks in advance to those who have some to offer.

Cass

AICS stock - 5lbs
Action - 2lbs
Bipod - 1.5lbs
Scope (including mounts/rings) - 2lbs.

Thats 10.5 pounds out of 18 pound (actually 18.18, but best kept at 18) weight limit for FTR shooting. That leaves you with approx. 7.5 pound for the barrel.

Another useful tip. Weigh your rifle, and bipod, bolt, etc now. Get a good reading. If its a stanard barrel on her, then you should be able to work out the entire weight of your rifle minus the barrel and this will give you exactly the amount of weight you can go on a ne barrel.

I have 4 barrels for my .308. They range from medium palma profile at 30" to bull barrel at 32". The weights range from 6lb to 7.5lb. The two i would recommend are Krieger and TruFlite.

Krieger are tried and tested and an excellent barrel with many records being held on a Krieger barrel. TruFlite are relatively new, but ar gaining opularity with alot of shooters including the likes of Russel Simmons, john Whiddon, etc.

The 30" barrel is all you need. I find little difference in MV between my 30" to 32". Anything after 32" is wasteful. With that in mind either Krieger or Truflite do a bull barrel and with it being 30" you could go for the 1.25" barrel and still make the weight limit required to shoot FTR comps.

There are other brands such as Bartlein (more famous for being the barrel used by Savage in their FTR rifles), Lothar-Walther, Shilen, etc. The only thing you need check is the diameter of your action where the barrel attachs as this will determine the max diameter of the barrel you can get. Remmy i think are either 1.125 orr 1.25" so most heavy profile to bull barrels should work.

As to fitting any competent gunsmith can fit a barrel its merely a matter of what you like or dielike. I would recommend that you ignore any fluted barrels because due to the estimated weights of your rig at the moment you do not need to scrimp of weight and can afford to go heavier.

SeantheDruid

Ezridax, from what I've read on Boards shooting thus far, you appear to be a good authority on matters of target shooting, so thanks very much for your advice.

I'll more than likely go for a Krieger in 30''. Seems to be a solid choice.

tac foley

Lilja.

Border.

tac

Cass

SeantheDruid wrote: »

Ezridax, from what I've read on Boards shooting thus far, you appear to be a good authority on matters of target shooting, so thanks very much for your advice.

I don't know about that, but i sometimes get it right.

I'll more than likely go for a Krieger in 30''. Seems to be a solid choice.

Kreiger are a fantastic barrel. They run a little more expensive than TruFlite, Bartlein, Border, but they are well worth the money. They can take as long as a few months to get in as Ireland does not rank highly on their priorities. Maybe a little quicker if UK suppliers have some in stock. Then the rebarrel would only take a day to do.

A good choice.

rowa

Something you may find useful ;

http://www.border-barrels.com/barrel_weight_S1.htm

tomcat220t

Krieger or bartlein barrels .......top choice;)Have a Krieger and just to mix it up a little will be trying bartlein next.

Cass

If you use rowa's link and insert 1.125 for C this will give you a bull barrel "contour", and the weight will be in around the 7.3lb mark.

Tackleberrywho

Just asking a question for myself to the pannel that might be of interest to the OP.

Twist rates, I know Ezridax mentioned several barrels in .308 with different twists and profiles.

I might be rebarrelling my .308 soon (hunting profile)and would like a twist for 165grain max loads where I'm guessing the OP wants 200grain loads for 1000 yards.

Any Twist recommendations for specific grain rounds?

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Any Twist recommendations for specific grain rounds?

There are unwritten rules as such for twist rates. They do not always work or some work when they really shouldn't, but a general guide for a .308 would be;

• 1:10 - 180gr - 220gr
• 1:11 - 165gr - 190gr
• 1:12 - 150gr - 175gr
• 1:13 / 1:13.5 - 150gr - 156gr
• 1:14 - 130gr - 156gr

Now with twist rates, as with barrel length, you get to a point where excess twist rates do not necessarily mean better results. by that i mean anything in excess of 32" in a barrel is pointless. The increase you achieve in MV is by no means good enough to warrant the extra weight held in the longer barrel. Same with twist rate. For a 155-156gr bullet (Palma shooting) a 1:13.5 barrel has been found to be optimal. 1:14 would give no discernable improvement in speed, accuracy, etc.

I've said many times that the barrel that came originally on my Savage FTR was a 1:12. Perfectly suited for 155gr bullets, but would take anything up to 175. However given a small amount more in elevation she would shoot 190gr rounds aswell as the 155gr if not a little better as the 190 carried the higher BC giving less wind drift, and was somewhat more "user friendly".


The main thing before buying any barrel is not the twist rate, but the bullet you intend on using. If you want to stay with 155gr bullets and run a fast round then you look at 1:13 or 1:13.5. If you would like to run a Berger 185VLD then look at 1:11 or even 1:10.

A useful tool is the barrel twist calculator i found a while ago. Simply input the details and it gives you the best twist rate using the Greenhills forumla.

So use the following.

• Sierra 155gr bullet - 1.23 inches.
• Bullet diameter (ie - caliber) - .308
• Expected velocities - 3050fps
• Bullet SG (make up of bullet) - Copper = 8.9

The calculator gives you a recommended twist rate of 1:13.5.

Try it here yourself.

tac foley

V. useful post.

It will be even more useful when we can ALL reload the bullet that suits our needs best without having to taking out a second mortgage.

tac

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

V. useful post.

Thanks.

It will be even more useful when we can ALL reload the bullet that suits our needs best without having to taking out a second mortgage.

tac

Appreciate the sentiment, but i really would like this thread to remain on topic. Good discussions on target shooting rarely come up so when they do i like to see them run on topic.

No offence intended.

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

V. useful post.

It will be even more useful when we can ALL reload the bullet that suits our needs best without having to taking out a second mortgage.

tac

+1 tac , i priced rounds for a .300 win mag out of curiosity last week and a box of ten rounds was €40, i know reloading is not just done for money reasons but you'd have to be able to reload them cheaper then that.

With these barrel weight and rifling twist calculators, is their one that can be used to calculate velocity for barrel length ?

Cass

rowa wrote: »

With these barrel weight and rifling twist calculators, is their one that can be used to calculate velocity for barrel length ?

No. hence the use of chronographs.

A barrels twist rate, length, etc can aid or hinder velocity however its the combination of the bullet, powder choice, shell, primer, twist, length, etc that determines velocities. So you couldn't order a 30" barrel that guarantees or offers 3100fps because the factory ammo could have a ceiling of say 2900fps.

Even with reloading its the powder, seating depth, etc that would increase/decrease speed, but as said above i'd really like the thread to not go into the reloading talk again.
Hope that makes sense.

tac foley

A good few of the serious shooters in my little club are changing out their .308Win to the newish 6.5x47 Lapua, for a number of reasons. Principal one is that the round is VERY gentle on barrels - in other words, you are going to get substantially more life from your expensive new pipe than you are with the hotter cartridges still in vogue. I cite the 6.5-284 that a father and son pair here shoot in F-TR. Both told me that their barrels were virtually 'gone off' at around 1200-1300 shots - not a poor man's sport then, even with a lower-budget replacement barrel. They too are looking in this direction. Only the barrel needs changing - the bolt head is the same. Needless to say, Lapua factory ammunition is readily available and has been winning medals since 2007. It is a very soft-shooting round, too, from the little experience I have of shooting other people's guns - very similar to a good .270 load, or any of the factory 6.5x55 loads. My 300m rifle, an older Schultz & Larsen-barrelled .308 Win, with its unusual K31 action, is already earmarked for this round.

And when my old Krico .308Win 650SS finally dies, that's the way I'll be going with that one, as well -a Cerakoted 28" barrel [to keep it a handy length for the part of the sport that I do [leapish-around tactical/practical], and if it lasts even half as long as the one that's on it now [coming up for 13,000 rounds of .308Win], I'll be very happy. Well, whoever buys the gun off my widder-woman will be happy.

tac

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

I cite the 6.5-284 that a father and son pair here shoot in F-TR. Both told me that their barrels were virtually 'gone off' at around 1200-1300 shots - not a poor man's sport then, even with a lower-budget replacement barrel.

You couldn't shoot a 6.5x284 in FTR. Its not allowed. FTR is for .223 or .308 cal rifles only. 6.5x284 would be with the rest of them in F-Open.

The 6.5 has an average barrel life of between 900 - 1300 rounds as you said. A 7mm could only wish for this. I read on an American site of a chap running a hot round, and getting roughly 400 - 600 rounds per barrel. Although with easier access to barrels, lower costs, it wouldn't be as troublesome at it may be here.

There is no major price difference between a full FTR build and a full F-Open build. With both its only a matter of the depth of your wallet. The sortened barrel life of the F-Open would put some off, but its still a fanatastic discipline and one i would hope to break into in the not too distant future.

tac foley

Ezridax wrote: »

You couldn't shoot a 6.5x284 in FTR. Its not allowed. FTR is for .223 or .308 cal rifles only. 6.5x284 would be with the rest of them in F-Open.

The 6.5 has an average barrel life of between 900 - 1300 rounds as you said. A 7mm could only wish for this. I read on an American site of a chap running a hot round, and getting roughly 400 - 600 rounds per barrel. Although with easier access to barrels, lower costs, it wouldn't be as troublesome at it may be here.

There is no major price difference between a full FTR build and a full F-Open build. With both its only a matter of the depth of your wallet. The sortened barrel life of the F-Open would put some off, but its still a fanatastic discipline and one i would hope to break into in the not too distant future.

Doh, my wrong. It's terble hard on the nerves being such an eejit in public.

As you can surmise, I don't do either F-TR or F-Open, preferring to keep the ould circulation going by leaping around the landscape with a gun like I used to when I was but a lad.

However - for the technically-interested - to match the BC of the 6.5 mm 139-gr Lapua Scenar (0.615), the .30 has to step up the 210-gr Berger VLD (0.631), or the .30 175-grain Sierra Match King [0.496).

The 6.5x47 easily beats the bunch on less than 3/4 the load - which is far easier on the prone shoulder in a protracted competition.

tac

Cass

I imagine it'd be a good round, but you have to ask yourself why more are not using it. The BC looks good, but AFAIK the most popular round for the 6.5x284 is the 142SMK with a BC of roughly 0.6, and the Berger 185 VLD for the 7WSM running around 0.57. Don't hold me to those figures as i'm a newbie to F-Open.

tac foley

Ezridax wrote: »

I imagine it'd be a good round, but you have to ask yourself why more are not using it. The BC looks good, but AFAIK the most popular round for the 6.5x284 is the 142SMK with a BC of roughly 0.6, and the Berger 185 VLD for the 7WSM running around 0.57. Don't hold me to those figures as i'm a newbie to F-Open.

I'm sure you are right, but there are more disciplines around than just the prone ones. There is BR and practical/tactical - the first is not well-known in Ireland, and the second is prohibited, but literally hundreds of thousands of shooter do both, maybe even millions. And of course there are the many hunters who have taken to it all over the world, particularly in the North Americas - one called it an improved and more effective .260 Remington with less barrel wear. Even the new 6.5 Creedmoor is now just another choice in this neat calibre.

Not doing anything more than bringing it to the attention of the board.
[Gets down off soap-box, and rides away on it...]

tac

Cass

You are of course, correct. There are more than just the prone disciplines, but as my only experience liew within these shooting types i cannot really comment, or at least not accurately, on others.

Also to try and keep within the theme of the OP i'm trying to answer in an "F-Class" type of way.

Fact is with FTR, as thats the discipline the OP is looking at, the only concern is the type and twist of the barrel. With an average of at least 5,000 rounds re-barreling is not going to be foremost on your mind after you get the initial new barrel.

Krieger match barrels are the business. Easier to clean, less break needed, less deviation in the bore, the list goes on.

tomcat220t

tac foley wrote: »

Doh, my wrong. It's terble hard on the nerves being such an eejit in public.

As you can surmise, I don't do either F-TR or F-Open, preferring to keep the ould circulation going by leaping around the landscape with a gun like I used to when I was but a lad.

However - for the technically-interested - to match the BC of the 6.5 mm 139-gr Lapua Scenar (0.615), the .30 has to step up the 210-gr Berger VLD (0.631), or the .30 175-grain Sierra Match King [0.496).

The 6.5x47 easily beats the bunch on less than 3/4 the load - which is far easier on the prone shoulder in a protracted competition.

tac

Most f-class shooters would question Laupas claim of 615 ,G1 B/C and the 65x47 wont push it hard enought to be competitive for f-calss .The 7mms are the real top dog for f-class with the berger 180gr (pointed @trimmed ) over .700 B/C )

tommyboy26

Op have a look at lilja barrels i have one on my .308 its a 30" with a 1/13 twist. I find it great.

tac foley

tommyboy26 wrote: »

Op have a look at lilja barrels i have one on my .308 its a 30" with a 1/13 twist. I find it great.

+1.

tac

Tackleberrywho

So OP, it's looking like a 30"

1. Krieger
2. Truflite
3. lilja

probably 1/10 twist if you want to shoot 200+ grain heads

I'm personally going for a truflite 22" for hunting and might go in a slower twist than the 1/12 I am running.
Let us know how you get on.

rowa

Sort of related

http://firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/RifledBarrelManuf/BarrelManufacture.htm