Horology in Dublin?

ArcticFox

What's the best way to learn about watches in Dublin (from repair / maintenance to creating a new piece).

Anyone here know of a night course etc?

Thanks

Bullseye1

I'd like to know this too.

ArcticFox

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I'd like to know this too.

See you in class Bullseye!

Bullseye1

Got this doing a quick search:

Ireland, Irish/Swiss Institute of Horology, Dublin email morissetm@csduroy.qc.ca

Monty Burnz

I thought there was a watchmakers' school in Dublin but it closed some years back, nearly a decade ago? I was talking to a young guy in Dawson's Jewellers around 2006 who had studied there.

ArcticFox

Found a previous thread on this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60881472

"Other than the Irish Swiss Institute of Horology that is now long closed I'm not aware of any where else that will give you a formal education in Ireland, you'd want to look further afield."

Bluemagic

I would be seriously interested also if there was anything going. I've looked in the past but only found the institute which is closed and some guy down the country that teaches the odd class on clocks.

marcus1971

You could look into the Timezone online course:

http://www.timezonewatchschool.com/WatchSchool/

The first module does not represent much of an investment in either course fees or tools/movement, worth a go, very basic in the beginning but a good heads up as to what the rest of it would be like without putting too much cash on the line.

A lot of the regulars on the Replica Forums and Homage forums have done it, the course itself is inexpensive ...its the toolkit that is the expensive part....they steer you in the direction of Ofrei for the standardized course toolkit, although once you know what you need you can buy it wherever you like and you will end up with a few self made watches at the end of it all.

I find that there is as much information as you will ever need online in the various watch communities, when you bear in mind that putting a watch together is really easy, its the servicing thats more difficult....although with certain clone movements coming from China for 10-45 Euro Retail and the high quality stalwarts like the Eta 2836 coming in at 100ish Euro its not worth fixing em a lot of the time, but once you have a few similar movements laying around you will just pick up on how they are put together and a bit of practise placing screws and moving bits and pieces around and its all much easier than you would expect.

ArcticFox

$75 is not too much if we have a shared username and password and each person contributes a %

:runs for cover:

alantul

unfortunately this is not something you can just learn from a book, you would need to be trained in a proper workshop and under the correct guidance otherwise it will be nothing more than a hobby and there are easier hobbies! the BHI run a great course but again you would need to be in england to avail of that, the distance learning wont work unless you have a complete workshop and someone to teach you aswell.

flutered

some vec s do a clock or watchmaking course each autumn/winter, numbers are usually limited, so start digging.

marcus1971

alantul wrote: »

unfortunately this is not something you can just learn from a book, you would need to be trained in a proper workshop and under the correct guidance otherwise it will be nothing more than a hobby and there are easier hobbies! the BHI run a great course but again you would need to be in england to avail of that, the distance learning wont work unless you have a complete workshop and someone to teach you aswell.

Totally disagree with that, I doubt anybody here is considering going into this as a full time job....it IS only a hobby. There may be easier hobbies, but some people like a challenge.

There are thousands of self trained board members on hundreds of watch fora all over the internet and I for one have learned lots of things from just reading various posts over the last few years, not even from a structured course.

Its not all about the mechanicals of the watch either, there is case refinishing, replating, crystal fitting, crystal polishing, case repair, changing hands, reluming, waterproofing, gaskets....even just changing a strap needs instruction at first....lots and lots.

I have often in years past brought watches to watchmakers - as I'll bet everyone reading this has - who would return the watch as "not worth fixing" and they ended up in the bin, now I would have no problem fixing almost any of my own watches. I have sent watches off to be repaired and have gotten them back with the "Obselete - Parts not Available" Obituary and then gotten the parts and fixed them myself....Mechanicals..Quartz and Tuning Forks.
I have gotten cases back from so called trained watchmakers that have been refinished as if a gorilla did the job with a knife and fork and almost every single time had to re-do the job myself.

I sound like a broken record BUT, I probably say this every week, almost every watch we are likely to buy here carries one of about 3 or 4 different movements, I don't mean Pateks, I wouldnt even trust a Patek to an average watchmaker, I'm talking about Omegas, Sinn, Tissot, Tag, B&R, Corum etc. etc. ..... the middle of the road brands they are nothing special under the hood, sure Omega have coaxial movements, but really its just a fancy Eta, its not like trying to figure around the geography of a thousand different in-house movements...master the Eta and you should be good for over 90% of whats out there.....ok sure there are the chrono movements and they are complicated, but we can all start at the regular uncomplicated movements and work ahead, the cheaper Chinese clone movements (that are sneaking into a lot of "better" watches nowadays) can be bought for as little as 10 Euro, why would anybody who can remove a dial and change a set of hands bother to send a cheaper boutique style watch to a watchmaker in that instance?

We here all prefer mechanical movements...(right?) but most watches in circulation now are analogue quartz and digital quartz....what does a watchmaker do with a quartz watch for 99% of customers? ...change the battery, what happens when the quartz goes wrong? there are two simple answers to this 1) Not worth Fixing and 2) replace module/movement...I think I can say that anybody with minimal instruction could do that in 90%+ of quartz watches out there given the tools...there are the Hydro filled watches like Sinn have, but even a watchmaker couldnt change the battery in one of them.

Nothing too difficult about getting your feet wet and having a go at many many different aspects of watch repair/making.....sure when you get into jewels, pivots and repairing a balance its beyond (most) hobbyists....but a lot of watchmakers are not interested in anything other than a clean and oil service, chronographs are tricky, I wouldnt attempt to do much on a chrono, but then neither will a lot of watchmakers who prefer to stick with the uncomplicated stuff.

alantul

marcus1971 wrote: »

Totally disagree with that, I doubt anybody here is considering going into this as a full time job....it IS only a hobby. There may be easier hobbies, but some people like a challenge.

There are thousands of self trained board members on hundreds of watch fora all over the internet and I for one have learned lots of things from just reading various posts over the last few years, not even from a structured course.

Its not all about the mechanicals of the watch either, there is case refinishing, replating, crystal fitting, crystal polishing, case repair, changing hands, reluming, waterproofing, gaskets....even just changing a strap needs instruction at first....lots and lots.

I have often in years past brought watches to watchmakers - as I'll bet everyone reading this has - who would return the watch as "not worth fixing" and they ended up in the bin, now I would have no problem fixing almost any of my own watches. I have sent watches off to be repaired and have gotten them back with the "Obselete - Parts not Available" Obituary and then gotten the parts and fixed them myself....Mechanicals..Quartz and Tuning Forks.
I have gotten cases back from so called trained watchmakers that have been refinished as if a gorilla did the job with a knife and fork and almost every single time had to re-do the job myself.

I sound like a broken record BUT, I probably say this every week, almost every watch we are likely to buy here carries one of about 3 or 4 different movements, I don't mean Pateks, I wouldnt even trust a Patek to an average watchmaker, I'm talking about Omegas, Sinn, Tissot, Tag, B&R, Corum etc. etc. ..... the middle of the road brands they are nothing special under the hood, sure Omega have coaxial movements, but really its just a fancy Eta, its not like trying to figure around the geography of a thousand different in-house movements...master the Eta and you should be good for over 90% of whats out there.....ok sure there are the chrono movements and they are complicated, but we can all start at the regular uncomplicated movements and work ahead, the cheaper Chinese clone movements (that are sneaking into a lot of "better" watches nowadays) can be bought for as little as 10 Euro, why would anybody who can remove a dial and change a set of hands bother to send a cheaper boutique style watch to a watchmaker in that instance?

We here all prefer mechanical movements...(right?) but most watches in circulation now are analogue quartz and digital quartz....what does a watchmaker do with a quartz watch for 99% of customers? ...change the battery, what happens when the quartz goes wrong? there are two simple answers to this 1) Not worth Fixing and 2) replace module/movement...I think I can say that anybody with minimal instruction could do that in 90%+ of quartz watches out there given the tools...there are the Hydro filled watches like Sinn have, but even a watchmaker couldnt change the battery in one of them.

Nothing too difficult about getting your feet wet and having a go at many many different aspects of watch repair/making.....sure when you get into jewels, pivots and repairing a balance its beyond (most) hobbyists....but a lot of watchmakers are not interested in anything other than a clean and oil service, chronographs are tricky, I wouldnt attempt to do much on a chrono, but then neither will a lot of watchmakers who prefer to stick with the uncomplicated stuff.

as a qualified watchmaker thats my opinion is all. id never tell anyone not to try something . articfox did say create a new piece which made me think he was going further than a hobby . as for finding a course on this in ireland i dont think you will which is a shame ,

marcus1971

alantul wrote: »

as a qualified watchmaker thats my opinion is all. id never tell anyone not to try something . articfox did say create a new piece which made me think he was going further than a hobby . as for finding a course on this in ireland i dont think you will which is a shame ,

Well, he did say create a new piece....I assume that would involve
Buying the movement.
Buying a handset
Picking out a suitable dial, maybe luming it himself
Buying/Making a movement spacer....or one would probably come with the caseset, like the Timezone course offers as the goal at the end of the first module, it goes on from there into the service aspect

IF he meant he was going to make a watch from scratch, EVERYTHING, then he is in for huge disappointment, even the great George Daniels can't make a watch from scratch, the greatest living watchmaker and he buys in the hairsprings for all of his watches.

When you look at many of the boutique syle brands like Helson, Zenton, Crepas and a few others, as fine as they look and as high quality as they are,...ALL use the exact same case in the "making" of some of their dive watches....

..then they put in either a finished Eta or a clone, no customization of the movement and their own style of dial/hands and bracelet...all of which are bought in, ANYBODY could do this, its just down to simple assembly and marketing after that...I'll bet as a watchmaker you could train anybody to perform this assembly on a production line to 90% complete ready for final timing and fitment check.

It really is no different to buying a caseset on ebay, a movement from cousins, picking a set of hands you like elsewhere and putting it all together...and the companies I listed above are considered watchmakers, they make a fine product, I would like a couple of them myself but they are really nothing special....they dont actually make anything.

So its hard to know what constitutes building a watch anymore, unfortunately mecanical watches are becoming as disposable as quartz watches, the movements are becoming throw away and replace and since eBay has become the B&Q of the watch world more people are ready to buy the tools and have a go at fixing/making/modding their watches....

its a bit like buying DIY tools, 30 years ago the only person who owned a circular saw was a carpenter or builder, now a lot of people are likely to own one as well as many many other tools that were once the preserve of tradesmen, watchmaking seems to be going the same way, it has actually become a hobby as opposd to just owning a nice few watches
and people aren't afraid to roll up the sleeves and have a go, I would think that for this kind of simple interest that an online course would be sufficient, pity though there isn't even a night course available...

... you wanna put yourself forward???

alantul

marcus1971 wrote: »

alantul wrote: »

as a qualified watchmaker thats my opinion is all. id never tell anyone not to try something . articfox did say create a new piece which made me think he was going further than a hobby . as for finding a course on this in ireland i dont think you will which is a shame ,

Well, he did say create a new piece....I assume that would involve
Buying the movement.
Buying a handset
Picking out a suitable dial, maybe luming it himself
Buying/Making a movement spacer....or one would probably come with the caseset, like the Timezone course offers as the goal at the end of the first module, it goes on from there into the service aspect

IF he meant he was going to make a watch from scratch, EVERYTHING, then he is in for huge disappointment, even the great George Daniels can't make a watch from scratch, the greatest living watchmaker and he buys in the hairsprings for all of his watches.

When you look at many of the boutique syle brands like Helson, Zenton, Crepas and a few others, as fine as they look and as high quality as they are,...ALL use the exact same case in the "making" of some of their dive watches....

..then they put in either a finished Eta or a clone, no customization of the movement and their own style of dial/hands and bracelet...all of which are bought in, ANYBODY could do this, its just down to simple assembly and marketing after that...I'll bet as a watchmaker you could train anybody to perform this assembly on a production line to 90% complete ready for final timing and fitment check.

It really is no different to buying a caseset on ebay, a movement from cousins, picking a set of hands you like elsewhere and putting it all together...and the companies I listed above are considered watchmakers, they make a fine product, I would like a couple of them myself but they are really nothing special....they dont actually make anything.

So its hard to know what constitutes building a watch anymore, unfortunately mecanical watches are becoming as disposable as quartz watches, the movements are becoming throw away and replace and since eBay has become the B&Q of the watch world more people are ready to buy the tools and have a go at fixing/making/modding their watches....

its a bit like buying DIY tools, 30 years ago the only person who owned a circular saw was a carpenter or builder, now a lot of people are likely to own one as well as many many other tools that were once the preserve of tradesmen, watchmaking seems to be going the same way, it has actually become a hobby as opposd to just owning a nice few watches
and people aren't afraid to roll up the sleeves and have a go, I would think that for this kind of simple interest that an online course would be sufficient, pity though there isn't even a night course available...

... you wanna put yourself forward???

Ya create a new piece in my terms would be to make all your own parts bar hairspring/mainspring as you mentioned. I agree with you on the assembly of a watch by buying all these parts and putting whatever name you like on it and how a name can make practically the same watch crazy money for what it is. It's nuts! You will see some pictures of our own handmade stuff on our website I can pm you the link if you like as I can't post it here.
As for running a course I'm afraid it's a non runner as we just couldn't fit it in.

marcus1971

alantul wrote: »

Ya create a new piece in my terms would be to make all your own parts bar hairspring/mainspring as you mentioned. I agree with you on the assembly of a watch by buying all these parts and putting whatever name you like on it and how a name can make practically the same watch crazy money for what it is. It's nuts! You will see some pictures of our own handmade stuff on our website I can pm you the link if you like as I can't post it here.
As for running a course I'm afraid it's a non runner as we just couldn't fit it in.

Hmm, I would have thought the mainspring would be one of the easier things to make for a watch, I can see where the hairspring would be a PITA for even the most skilled person, I thought that a mainspring would be a fairly easy thing to make given access to even rudimentary equipment.

Sure, PM me the link, always first in line to support our own if the product is at least as good as the competition but, if you are saying that you make your own watches from scratch with the exception of the hairspring, the only Irish made watch that carries a complete in-house movement is, if I am correct, in the region of $150,000.....probably a bit beyond my means.

Monty Burnz

alantul wrote: »

You will see some pictures of our own handmade stuff on our website I can pm you the link if you like as I can't post it here.

Please do post a link - I don't think anyone would object!

ArcticFox

Some great responses on here!

Marcus1971 - care to educate in a formal capacity?

By creating a new piece, all I meant was that I would be interested in buying the components and fitting them together, rather than making everything from scratch! :eek:

McGonigle Watches is the only crowd here in Ireland that I can think of that have a complete in-house movement (and yes, in excess of €100K).

Can't find any VEC courses either

ArcticFox

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Please do post a link - I don't think anyone would object!

I certainly wouldn't - post it alan! (or otherwise, pm)

marcus1971

ArcticFox wrote: »

Some great responses on here!

Marcus1971 - care to educate in a formal capacity?

By creating a new piece, all I meant was that I would be interested in buying the components and fitting them together, rather than making everything from scratch! :eek:

McGonigle Watches is the only crowd here in Ireland that I can think of that have a complete in-house movement (and yes, in excess of €100K).

Can't find any VEC courses either

Thats what I thought you meant.
And yeah the McGonigle last I heard was the price of a 3 bed semi in Rathfarnham...well not quite yet, maybe next year

The TZ course will be perfect for your needs.



Heres an old thread with the usual long winded drivel from me in there for good measure:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056346946

Might give you a bit of an idea how to approach just buying a caseset and having a bash at it, even with a couple of spare movements you should be able to do something sub or explorer style for not much more than 100ish euro

Next time I knock one together Ill do a step by step photo log...I keep saying it over and over again, but it is really easy once you do the research and make sure everything you are using is going to fit in with the rest.

Monty Burnz

bedlam wrote: »

They have a cheaper model, the Tuscar at 48,000chf (wrist shots )

Yikes! Who brought that?

Mitch Buchannon

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yikes! Who brought that?

Mark from McGonigle brought the watch along to the GTG. It was great to see and get to try on a high end piece.

Monty Burnz

Mitch Buchannon wrote: »

Mark from McGonigle brought the watch along to the GTG. It was great to see and get to try on a high end piece.

Indeed. I've never seen a hand-made piece like that in the flesh.

carlcon

I found this forum to ask a similar question, so figured I'd bump this instead of making a new thread.

Bearing in mind that I'm only looking to rekindle a childhood interest and make it an extremely casual hobby, can anyone suggest any kits or pieces I could buy as a beginner with zero experience in horology?

I'm rarely in the one place for too long, so have no interest in classes or courses, just looking for beginners books/websites/kits, along with info on the most basic of basics.

As a child I had a fascination with cogs, wheels, time-keeping, and the intricacies of how clocks/watches worked. I'd like to do something about this interest, but only on a "hey, let's see if I can put a few pieces together" way.

I'm not looking to build a grandfather clock or a fancy watch... if I could put together the most horrible of contraptions that ticked, but didn't even tell time, I'd consider that a success!

flutered

how about you get an old pocket watch, a non runner, take it apart piece by piece, taking pics and taking notes then putting it all togeather again,

carlcon

flutered wrote: »

how about you get an old pocket watch, a non runner, take it apart piece by piece, taking pics and taking notes then putting it all togeather again,

Sounds exactly like something I'd enjoy trying and had in mind when posting.

I'm still oblivious to what tools I need for this, and even where I could find a cheap old pocket watch to play around with. I'll give the forum another browse!

flutered

i will supply you with the pocket watch, take a look at pmwf the have simple how to do it lessons, get back to me when you are ready to wreck you brains.

carlcon

flutered wrote: »

i will supply you with the pocket watch, take a look at pmwf the have simple how to do it lessons, get back to me when you are ready to wreck you brains.

I won't lie, I feel like a total idiot browsing that forum. I've never seen a more confusing forum in my life.

I've managed to find this entry, which contains a list of tools, so I'm currently just shopping around online and trying to figure out what's well-priced and what's cheap crap.

gordon_21

Hi I realise this thread is old but I was wondering, as I am to lazy to read all the post, if someone could recommend a horologist that is able to make new piece's and is based in Dublin.

Chuck_Norris

I apologise in advance for re resurrecting a zombie thread, but it's threads like this make me wish I had stayed at the bench after I graduated. Rather than letting two very, very crappy experiences get to me.

Ah well.

Blackrock Reporter

Is anyone aware of any colleges in Dublin which offer classes on watch repair ?