Confirmation of a Solictior's/debt recovery company's entitlements.

Cass

Just a quick one, and its not overly important in the grand scheme of things.

My sister calls me today a little upset. Long story short. She lost her job, welfare are playing silly buggers, bills piling up, etc. She got a letter from a solicitor today about an overdue bill. Will not mention name of company.

They say the usual pay up or will take you to court stuff. This one was a ltitle different though. They listed off a number of things they would do if they sought a judgement against her and were successful. These included;

• Notifying other lenders,
• Seizing assets to cover the amount owed
• Commence examination order to force her to appear in court (for the "shame" of being publicly seen i presume)
• Have the details registered and then published in a named paper, and others that are not named.

Now while its all fairly serious and i'm trying to help her out i told her alot of it is "huff and puff" that they use to force, pressure, guilt you into making a settlement quickly.

My question though is can they publish her name or anyone's name for that matter in local rags?
What in that list is proper and what can they do in it or is it all within their rights to do so?


My apologies in advance if this thread breaks any rules. I read the charter and am not looking for legal advice as to what to do rather just seeing if others with a better knowledge could tell me if what they are proposing to do can actually be done.

TIA

Ez.

Milk & Honey

Without giving any advice, note that in the Sunday Business Post on a weekly basis there is a list of judgements by County. Details given are Name ,address and occupation of the Defendant. The name of the Plaintiff. The amount of the judgement.

tasha200

I suspect it is on rather cheap thin paper...
The only advice is for your sister to go to MABS and sort it out, or, like many have done, if it is a small bill, ignore it till it goes away... I do recommend MABS... my advice is to tell your sister to never worry about a bit of paper shoved through her letterbox, accusing her of something she would never have done has she been aware that it might end with what I call 'POSTMAN TERRORISM'

She owes the money, she cant pay it.... she will try to pay it as best she can in the next while as she gets on her feet...... apart from that, FECK ALL.... what do they want, blood, humiliation, public outcry she pwes a couple of hundred quid to their poxy 30 billion worldwide value mulit national.. tell her to get it all into perspective and no matter what her finacial circyumstances, to live life, not in fear of the postman, or cheap pretend threats of publishing details in publications only the bigest wnkers in life read x hths x

blueythebear

tasha200 wrote: »

I suspect it is on rather cheap thin paper...
The only advice is for your sister to go to MABS and sort it out, or, like many have done, if it is a small bill, ignore it till it goes away... I do recommend MABS... my advice is to tell your sister to never worry about a bit of paper shoved through her letterbox, accusing her of something she would never have done has she been aware that it might end with what I call 'POSTMAN TERRORISM'

She owes the money, she cant pay it.... she will try to pay it as best she can in the next while as she gets on her feet...... apart from that, FECK ALL.... what do they want, blood, humiliation, public outcry she pwes a couple of hundred quid to their poxy 30 billion worldwide value mulit national.. tell her to get it all into perspective and no matter what her finacial circyumstances, to live life, not in fear of the postman, or cheap pretend threats of publishing details in publications only the bigest wnkers in life read x hths x

I would ignore this "advice". If she ignores it then they will follow through on these threats which won;t do her any good. If she contacts the solicitors involved and outlines that she cannot pay and that she fully intends to pay, it is in their interest to give her a little more time to sort things out.

Think about it. It's not worth the solicitors time chasing you as you probably won't be able to discharge their costs never mind the original debt. It's not worth the owed party paying their solicitor to chase the debt if she has no money as they're paying for collection on a debt that may not get paid.

Contact the solicitor. Explain the circumstances to the solicitors involved and preferably to whoever she owes the money to. If she can provide proof of her circumstances that would help. This should buy her some time. Just be aware that the creditor is not going to wait forever.

newmug

tasha200 wrote: »

She owes the money, she cant pay it.... she will try to pay it as best she can in the next while as she gets on her feet...... apart from that, FECK ALL.... what do they want, blood, humiliation, public outcry she pwes a couple of hundred quid to their poxy 30 billion worldwide value mulit national.. tell her to get it all into perspective and no matter what her finacial circyumstances, to live life, not in fear of the postman, or cheap pretend threats of publishing details in publications only the bigest wnkers in life read x hths x

+1

Cass

The debt is approx €400. She is paying for it, but the problem comes from the fact that the bill increase each month by a little LESS than she pays. So if she paid say €60 per month the amount the bill increases by each month is €45 - €50. So each month she only actually pays €10 - €15 off the principle (could be using that word in the wrong context)

She has rang them, kept them up to date with her situation and still pays so its not like she is sticking her head in the sand and ignoring the issue.

I feel bad for her and as said am trying to help but i was forced out of work myself with an illness over two years ago and am not exactly flush. That aside i'm not too worried, as such. When i was young i had no regard for bills, loans, etc and made a pigs ear out of things. Copped on soon enough and took nearly 5 years to get back on the right footing.

I got my fair share of those letters and never contacted the companies invloved, and done everything wrong that could possibly be done wrong.

Anyway i understand that the posts here are only opinions, and i thank you all for you contribution and future contributions. I just needed to "check" with others if they could do what they propose.

tasha200

tasha200 wrote: »

I suspect it is on rather cheap thin paper...
The only advice is for your sister to go to MABS and sort it out, or, like many have done, if it is a small bill, ignore it till it goes away... I do recommend MABS... my advice is to tell your sister to never worry about a bit of paper shoved through her letterbox, accusing her of something she would never have done has she been aware that it might end with what I call 'POSTMAN TERRORISM'

She owes the money, she cant pay it.... she will try to pay it as best she can in the next while as she gets on her feet...... apart from that, FECK ALL.... what do they want, blood, humiliation, public outcry she pwes a couple of hundred quid to their poxy 30 billion worldwide value mulit national.. tell her to get it all into perspective and no matter what her finacial circyumstances, to live life, not in fear of the postman, or cheap pretend threats of publishing details in publications only the bigest wnkers in life read x hths x

This post is why you should never take legal advice on the internet. Ignore all of it and listen to blueythebear.

Just be aware that for every time ignoring it makes them go away there's another time that it turns a small problem into an enormous problem. If they've already gone to a solicitor you are past the "ignore them and hope they let it drop" stage.

Ezridax

Ezridax wrote: »

I got my fair share of those letters and never contacted the companies invloved, and done everything wrong that could possibly be done wrong.

Different times. Take one look at the amount of judgments being sought against people and you'll see that.

blueythebear

Ezridax wrote: »

The debt is approx €400. She is paying for it, but the problem comes from the fact that the bill increase each month by a little LESS than she pays. So if she paid say €60 per month the amount the bill increases by each month is €45 - €50. So each month she only actually pays €10 - €15 off the principle (could be using that word in the wrong context)

She has rang them, kept them up to date with her situation and still pays so its not like she is sticking her head in the sand and ignoring the issue.

I feel bad for her and as said am trying to help but i was forced out of work myself with an illness over two years ago and am not exactly flush. That aside i'm not too worried, as such. When i was young i had no regard for bills, loans, etc and made a pigs ear out of things. Copped on soon enough and took nearly 5 years to get back on the right footing.

I got my fair share of those letters and never contacted the companies invloved, and done everything wrong that could possibly be done wrong.

Anyway i understand that the posts here are only opinions, and i thank you all for you contribution and future contributions. I just needed to "check" with others if they could do what they propose.

If those figures are correct, then that is an unbelievable rate of interest and she should be negotiating with her lender as soon as possible. I'd ask her to verify those figures with documentation if I was thinking of helping her out financially...

Cass

Its not a loan its a bill. By that i mean a normal, monthly, utility bill. It gathered momentum when she first lost her job, and snowballed. She started to get money coming back in, but is not fully sorted. I helped her out a little to stem the flood, but i cannot afford to keep doing this. Were she to be on level pegging again she would be paying less per month than she surrently is to catch up.:rolleyes:

To be honest the money, although its centred on it, is not the issue. The main problem was the letter and the fact that although she was paying, is paying and continues to pay they still pursue her relentlessly as though it was the end of the company. I realise they want their money and care nothing for people's situations, but my biggest gripe is the fact that she is doing everything right ans still getting handed the s**t end of the stick.

Anyway i think i got the "re-assurance" i was looking for. All i can do is help out where possible and tell her to continue to do as she is doing and meet the challenges they throw at her.

Thanks.

HellFireClub

Ezridax wrote: »

Its not a loan its a bill. By that i mean a normal, monthly, utility bill. It gathered momentum when she first lost her job, and snowballed. She started to get money coming back in, but is not fully sorted. I helped her out a little to stem the flood, but i cannot afford to keep doing this. Were she to be on level pegging again she would be paying less per month than she surrently is to catch up.:rolleyes:

To be honest the money, although its centred on it, is not the issue. The main problem was the letter and the fact that although she was paying, is paying and continues to pay they still pursue her relentlessly as though it was the end of the company. I realise they want their money and care nothing for people's situations, but my biggest gripe is the fact that she is doing everything right ans still getting handed the s**t end of the stick.

Anyway i think i got the "re-assurance" i was looking for. All i can do is help out where possible and tell her to continue to do as she is doing and meet the challenges they throw at her.

Thanks.

On a human level, there can be no doubt that there have been instances of suicide that have resulted from this kind of disgraceful behaviour from the legal profession. I'm all for "the money is owed", but we are living in strange times and a lot of people are living on or below the poverty line. The lies and the false threats that are often used in an attempt to extract payment from people with absolutely nothing, we need legislation to outlaw this and where these kind of disgraceful antics are still used and the result is a suicide, the author behind the threats should be charged with causing an unlawful death.

I really don't know why people are still afraid of the legal profession in this country.

blueythebear

Ezridax wrote: »

Its not a loan its a bill. By that i mean a normal, monthly, utility bill. It gathered momentum when she first lost her job, and snowballed. She started to get money coming back in, but is not fully sorted. I helped her out a little to stem the flood, but i cannot afford to keep doing this. Were she to be on level pegging again she would be paying less per month than she surrently is to catch up.:rolleyes:

To be honest the money, although its centred on it, is not the issue. The main problem was the letter and the fact that although she was paying, is paying and continues to pay they still pursue her relentlessly as though it was the end of the company. I realise they want their money and care nothing for people's situations, but my biggest gripe is the fact that she is doing everything right ans still getting handed the s**t end of the stick.

Anyway i think i got the "re-assurance" i was looking for. All i can do is help out where possible and tell her to continue to do as she is doing and meet the challenges they throw at her.

Thanks.

My bad. I seemed to read it was a loan...

Me fail English? That's unpossible.

Jo King

What lies and false threats? How is any creditor supposed to know the financial position of people who have contracted to pay them money? People who pay their bills have to subsidise those who don't.

blueythebear

HellFireClub wrote: »

On a human level, there can be no doubt that there have been instances of suicide that have resulted from this kind of disgraceful behaviour from the legal profession.

Really? Not to sound insensitive, but can you actually think of even one instance of suicide caused by a professional doing their job?

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm all for "the money is owed", but we are living in strange times and a lot of people are living on or below the poverty line. The lies and the false threats that are often used in an attempt to extract payment from people with absolutely nothing, we need legislation to outlaw this

Legislation to prevent people from pursuing sums owed to them? How about educating people more on what the law can and cannot do?

HellFireClub wrote: »

and where these kind of disgraceful antics are still used and the result is a suicide, the author behind the threats should be charged with causing an unlawful death.

I don't even know how a rational person could come to a conclusion like this.

HellFireClub wrote: »

I really don't know why people are still afraid of the legal profession in this country.

I was never afraid of the legal possession and I don't know anyone who has been. I've met people afraid of heights and clowns (independently of each other) but never afraid of a profession.

But seriously, these "disgraceful antics" are not just empty threats. The letter the OP's sister received includes details of the things that could happen if she does not pay up what's due. I don't see anything wrong with outlining the potential consequences of her not discharging a debt that is owed in an effort to encourage her to pay.

blueythebear

To the OP.

Tell your sister to attend her local welfare officer. She may be able to get an emergency payment from the Social Welfare. This would certainly help her situation.

HellFireClub

Jo King wrote: »

What lies and false threats? How is any creditor supposed to know the financial position of people who have contracted to pay them money? People who pay their bills have to subsidise those who don't.

When I was going through a similar set of circumstances I was getting letters threatening imprisonment, summary disposal of my assets, all sorts of absolute rubbish. If someone can't pay a bill then they can't pay a bill. Give them an option to pre-pay for your service, end of problem. At the end of the day there are people put there who are simply not coping with the times we are living in, and why should they be pushed into a place where they feel they have to do away with themselves rather than continue being tormented over what is a very minor bill in reality??? Is a life now worth less than the price of a gas bill in the eyes of the Irish legal profession???

Jo King

If someone can't pay a bill they shouldn't avail of the service in the first place. People are supplied with services on the basis that they will pay for it. The consequences of not paying bills can be serious and it is as well for people to be aware of them at an early stage.

HellFireClub

blueythebear wrote: »

Really? Not to sound insensitive, but can you actually think of even one instance of suicide caused by a professional doing their job?

A hitman is also a "professional doing their job". A professional qualification should not be an object to hide behind, male suicides are at a crisis point in this state, there can be no doubt that some of these threatening correspondence have been the straw that broke the camels back in relation to many people in this country, especially young males under 35, who decided to commit suicide.

There can be no doubt of that, it's public information that suicides have risen substantially since this recession started.

Unfortunately there is a healthy cohort of people in the legal industry in this state who have no issue whatsoever with chasing people into the last option of suicide, who pre-absolve themselves before they even start by saying, "I'm just a professional doing my job"...

HellFireClub

Jo King wrote: »

If someone can't pay a bill they shouldn't avail of the service in the first place. People are supplied with services on the basis that they will pay for it. The consequences of not paying bills can be serious and it is as well for people to be aware of them at an early stage.

Grand in theory, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that one day you might not be able to pay your bills as they fall due so I wouldn't be too smug on here. I know two lads in particular who had massive wealth only 2-3 years ago and they have absolutely NOTHING now. Anyone can run into hard times, this country is in a mess, whatever the solution to the background issue of unemployment, no person in the current climate should ever be unduly harassed in relation to debt.

Jo King

There is an even bigger cohort of people who don't want to meet their obligations and who have to have money dragged out of them. They are causing the legal profession to have to use the maximum pressure to get payment for their clients. If people cut their cloth according to their measure they wouldn't be getting into these fixes.

Cass

HellFireClub - While i appreciate your sentiment, and you probably have good reason/experience to say what you have, my sister's situation is not that extreme, nor will it become so. I don't doubt some people feel overwhelmed by things like this, but honestly this is not a case of that.

Jo King wrote:

How is any creditor supposed to know the financial position of people who have contracted to pay them money?

When they have received multiple letters, e-mails, and phone calls explaining the situation while still paying as much as is possible throughout the process. Thats how.

Jo King wrote:

People who pay their bills have to subsidise those who don't.

I hate that attitude. Its akin to when someone is stopped by a memebr of An Gardai for something they believe is trivial, and they say "my taxes pay your wages". NO THEY DON'T. Same here. You don't pay my bills, my sister's or anyone elses bills. You pay your taxes as she has done, as have we all and that money goes into the governemnts coffers for distribution as appropriate.

Jo King wrote:

If someone can't pay a bill they shouldn't avail of the service in the first place

Well thats the greatest load of crap i've heard in a long time.

1. Do you have electricity?
2. Do you have your bins collected each week?
3. Do you have gas?
4. Do you have a phone?
5. Do you have a TV?
6. Do you have internet?

Chances are that you could say yes to most of these. So why did you sign up to these? You could be laid off in the morning. You don't know that you'll be in a position to pay for them in a month/two months/6 months time. Aren't you guilty of the very thing you accuse others off.

No-one knows whats around the corner. When a person signs up to an agreement or contract they do so (mostly) with the intention of paying for that service. Circumstances change, and not always for the best. To blame the person for not being able to see into the future is downright silly.

Jo King wrote:

There is an even bigger cohort of people who don't want to meet their obligations and who have to have money dragged out of them

I wouldn't put it quite like that, but i don't doubt that there are people that would sooner ignore a problem than deal with it. This thread is not about that. Its not even about the events that lead up to this situation, although it has devolved into something more suited to the personal issues forum, i only wanted an opinion on the letter. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have noticed a growing sense of resentment by those still in employment toward those that are out of work to the extent that it no longer is directed towards those on long term unemployment, but simply anyone no longer in work.

I've worked and paid taxes for 20 years, my sister a little less. Never have either of us been unemployed before. In her case she is rasing a child, working and doing evening courses to further, and better herself. This all came to a sudden stop shortly after christmas when her company folded. In my case i was diagnosed with a tumor among other health issues. The €188 i receive per week is a huge benfit to me. :rolleyes: Compared to the €750+ per week i used to earn. Its not a choice any of us make. It is forced upon us or happens to us. I would love to be back working in the morning. Thats not an option i have any say in anymore.

Does that somehow make her a drain on the rest of the country? Or me for that matter? Does the previous 20 & 17 years count for nothing? Thats rhetorical by the way. I expect nothing short of a smart/superior toned response from you.

To that end this thread has gone from a simple question that required a simple answer to a train wreck. Thank you to those with genuine answers that were on topic. My apologies also for dragging the tone down by responding to some posts i probably should have just ignored or reported.

---

blueythebear - Thank you for the concise answers.


.

Victor

This is a debt collection agency that is simply going through the motions. All of those things could be done, but in reality the won't be done very quickly. All of them depend on court, which is possible, but unlikely for €400. However, to get them off her back, she will need to (a) eventually pay off the debt (b) perhaps set up some way of paying things off a bit quicker.

It may be useful to write a letter to her utility provider confirming that she intends to clear things and that she agree to pay X amount above the amount of the monthly bill. If they have a steady amount coming in and see that she is serious about clearing it, they are likely to be reassured and the pressure will be reduced. It may be useful for her to pay (X+monthly bill)/4 weekly, instead of waiting for the bill.

Are you certain this is the only debt and that it is only for €400?

blueythebear wrote: »

To the OP.

Tell your sister to attend her local welfare officer. She may be able to get an emergency payment from the Social Welfare. This would certainly help her situation.

In the immediate short term, she may be better off contacting the community welfare officer in the local health centre.

Just put her address in here: http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/maps/ to find the details.

But do talk to MABS. www.mabs.ie in the meantime, get her to put together and list of all her income and outgoings.

Give your sister a hug and tell her it will be OK.

Cass

Victor wrote: »

It may be useful to write a letter to her utility provider confirming that she intends to clear things and that she agree to pay X amount above the amount of the monthly bill.

She has done, and sent e-mails and rang up. When you add up her monthly utilities, rent (even at a reduced rate), and shopping bill she is paying them 30% or so of what remains. Thats not taking into account "extras" i don;t kow about or hear about. Child stuff, school, fuel, etc.

She has contacted the people involved and they say the letters are automatically generated by a computer on a list/rota basis. When she asked about the "agreement" to pay the monthly plus a small amout towards the arrears they tell her its still ineffect, but as she has arrears the "computor" will contniue to cycle through the list of people in arrears and send these letters.

If they have a steady amount coming in and see that she is serious about clearing it, they are likely to be reassured and the pressure will be reduced. It may be useful for her to pay (X+monthly bill)/4 weekly, instead of waiting for the bill.

I think she is just worried about the wording of this letter. The previous ones were not as "heavy handed". I've seen and heard of cases like this before the courts. She ticks all the boxes in relaton to;

• Updating the company on her finances weekly/monthly
• Maintaining communitcations with them by multiple media forms
• Paying the monthly bills plus a little extra towards the arrears

Are you certain this is the only debt and that it is only for €400?

I've the letter in my hand and its €414.34.

In the immediate short term, she may be better off contacting the community welfare officer in the local health centre.

Just put her address in here: http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/maps/ to find the details.

But do talk to MABS. www.mabs.ie

The welfare officer may be the route to go. Could either help reduce the debt significantly or eliminate it altogether. May wait till next Thursday and the letter needs an answer/payment within 10 days. So it'll be cutting it fine.

Victor

Ezridax wrote: »

The welfare officer may be the route to go. Could either help reduce the debt significantly or eliminate it altogether. May wait till next Thursday and the letter needs an answer/payment within 10 days. So it'll be cutting it fine.

Why wait?

If distance is and issue, phone them, explain situation, ask for forms to be sent out.

Cass

I don't know alot about the welfare officer or their role, ability, speed to act, etc. All i do know is they sit every Thursday between 12 and 2 in my area. Im in the sticks.

Did not know you could have the paperwork (whatever that entails) sent out. I'll let her know in the morning. Even if she has to wait and see him then she'll have the documents filled in.

Cheers.

Jo King

When they have received multiple letters, e-mails, and phone calls explaining the situation while still paying as much as is possible throughout the process. Thats how.

Might be all lies. How do they know if it is true?

I hate that attitude. Its akin to when someone is stopped by a memebr of An Gardai for something they believe is trivial, and they say "my taxes pay your wages". NO THEY DON'T. Same here. You don't pay my bills, my sister's or anyone elses bills. You pay your taxes as she has done, as have we all and that money goes into the governemnts coffers for distribution as appropriate.

Bad debts and stealing are overheads of business. All overheads are eventually passed on the the paying customers.

Well thats the greatest load of crap i've heard in a long time.

1. Do you have electricity?
2. Do you have your bins collected each week?
3. Do you have gas?
4. Do you have a phone?
5. Do you have a TV?
6. Do you have internet?

Chances are that you could say yes to most of these. So why did you sign up to these? You could be laid off in the morning. You don't know that you'll be in a position to pay for them in a month/two months/6 months time. Aren't you guilty of the very thing you accuse others off.

No-one knows whats around the corner. When a person signs up to an agreement or contract they do so (mostly) with the intention of paying for that service. Circumstances change, and not always for the best. To blame the person for not being able to see into the future is downright silly.

I keep enough money available to pay bills and if I have no money I don't run up bills. Ever hear of the rainy day?

I wouldn't put it quite like that, but i don't doubt that there are people that would sooner ignore a problem than deal with it. This thread is not about that. Its not even about the events that lead up to this situation, although it has devolved into something more suited to the personal issues forum, i only wanted an opinion on the letter. Nothing more, nothing less.

[/QUOTE]

There are many who have the money and just won't pay.

Does that somehow make her a drain on the rest of the country? Or me for that matter? Does the previous 20 & 17 years count for nothing? Thats rhetorical by the way. I expect nothing short of a smart/superior toned response from you.

You can't spend the same money twice. That is something that most people learn at the age of three. All taxes paid up to date have been spent. The government got them and spent them. The money being paid out by the government now is coming from current taxpayers and borrowing.


The reality is that the solicitors involved have done nothing wrong. In England a person who does not pay a bill within 45 days of an invoice can face a charge under the Theft Acts. Your sister is only facing Civil Process.

dermot_sheehan

I'm locking this.

OP shouldn't be asking for legal advice that is relied on, but in fairness asked only if can a creditor publish the fact that judgement has been got and this thread has gone off topic.

A judgement that is registered in the central office of the High Court is automatically picked up by stubs gazette and other trade publications. The name of a debtor can be published after judgement is got against them without fear of a claim of defamation since once judgement is entered, the debt is regarded as proved and therefore publication of the fact of the judgement can not be defamatory since it is true.