"You've two days, get your stuff and get out"

tayto lover

iguana wrote: »

There is a contract, after 6 months of renting a residence you automatically move on to a Part 4 tenancy agreement if no other contract exists. The OP will have plenty of proof that he lived there as all utilities bills for example will be in his or his wife's name.

Exactly and he should take a claim to the Small Claims Court to get his deposit back. I think its only 15e to do so. He seems to have been treated very badly although i would like to hear the LL's side too.

bigneacy

tara73 wrote: »

I didn't questioned that he didn't live there or the LL claiming he didn't live there.
my point is the nonexistent proof of any paid money/rent towards the LL!
I strongly doubt there's proof of a paid deposit.

so how can a cashflow be reported to revenue if there's no proof of this cashflow??

Surely it would be up to her to prove she didn't get this money - the revenue don't have to prove their entitlement to tax you.

The initial leg-work of getting deposits and first month rent all went through an estate agency.

tayto lover wrote:

Exactly and he should take a claim to the Small Claims Court to get his deposit back. I think its only 15e to do so. He seems to have been treated very badly although i would like to hear the LL's side too.

Unfortunately the problem with these things is you only hear one side (i'm sure her family have all already heard how we have her house ruined and never paid a days rent and have the placed decorated with swastikas and are also running a puppy farm and voted fianna fail three times)- I can only give my side, but I know my argument is completely truthful. The LL phoned the Estate agency and tried to tell them we were refusing to pay rent and she was going to kick us out and she wanted them to rent the house out for her. The EA told her they knew the full story already, as we had been in contact and they would rather not take her as a client based on her actions. From what I hear she told them to "go **** themselves" and that she would "sink them". Lovely woman.

BostonB

tayto lover wrote: »

Exactly and he should take a claim to the Small Claims Court to get his deposit back. I think its only 15e to do so. He seems to have been treated very badly although i would like to hear the LL's side too.

Why did you post that. The SCC doesn't deal with this http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

BostonB

bigneacy wrote: »

Surely it would be up to her to prove she didn't get this money....

Proving you paid money is one thing. But exactly how can you "prove" you didn't get money?

bigneacy

BostonB wrote: »

Proving you paid money is one thing. But exactly how can you "prove" you didn't get money?

Well, she can't - even though there is no receipts the fact that we have been living there for so long, that we served her notice (not vice-versa), that the bills are all in our name and have all been paid, that we paid first months rent and deposit and got receipts for that - all shows that we have been living there for 11 months.

That coupled with our declaration to the Revenue Commisioners should be evidence enough to warrant an investigation.

BostonB

OS119 wrote: »

... the shoddy state of the house - is going to scream 'unreliable witness' and 'slum landlord' to the judge, he's not going to believe a word the LL says.

bigneacy wrote: »

....The reason we stuck it out as long as we did is because we did (and still do) love the house.....We decorated the house how we liked it and even done a nursery for our daughter for when she was born....

Ouch...

BostonB

bigneacy wrote: »

Well, she can't - even though there is no receipts...we paid first months rent and deposit and got receipts for that....

Thats all you can prove. She could have just stuffed the money in the cornflakes box. There may be no paper trail to find at all.

Lets flip it around. How does a LL prove a tenant hasn't paid their rent.

bigneacy

BostonB wrote: »

Ouch...

LOL I'm sure OS119 was refering to the lack of repairs the landlord did for us, rather than our taste in decor...

BostonB wrote: »

Thats all you can prove. She could have just stuffed the money in the cornflakes box. There may be no paper trail to find at all.

Lets flip it around. How does a LL prove a tenant hasn't paid their rent.

But there's room for common sense in the (hypothetical) court room/tribunal - they're never going to accept the LL's argument that there was never rent paid, that she was happy to have non-paying tenants for almost a year.

The Rev. Com. are (i'm sure?) well versed in proving the assets and various income streams of individuals against their wishes. That's their thing!

A LL doesn't have to prove that, she has to start proceedings to evict and if they contest them they will have to prove that they have paid.

BostonB

From the Irish Independent. (so maybe completely wrong).

It recently emerged that the State paid more than €250m last year to thousands of unregistered landlords.

Half of the landlords who get rent supplement payments -- which can be as high as €1,100 a month -- from the Department of Social Protection do not have their properties registered with PRTB, despite being legally obliged to do so.

From the Irish Times....

the PRTB has great difficulty in identifying non-compliant landlords. It issued 16,000 enforcement letters last year and secured seven criminal convictions.

Not sure how much faith I'd have in the "system"

tara73

bigneacy wrote: »

Well, she can't - even though there is no receipts the fact that we have been living there for so long, that we served her notice (not vice-versa), that the bills are all in our name and have all been paid, that we paid first months rent and deposit and got receipts for that - all shows that we have been living there for 11 months.

That coupled with our declaration to the Revenue Commisioners should be evidence enough to warrant an investigation.

really wondering why everybody is so sure that she would be in the wrong if it goes to court. and that she has to prove she didn't get the money. again: how do you prove you didn't get something?????

is there any exemplary case or treshold/prtb told that this is the norm?

anyway, the point I'm trying to make is, why people are still renting properties without a proper written agreement and still paying rent in cash and then crying out when the trouble is there.

there are normally no advantages for paying rent in cash, and sorry, op, you havn't explained the fact why you did it (except that you're unemployed...) at all and you don't have to but your side of the story still smells fishy to me as well...

sophia25

jsd1004 wrote: »

As 75% of rental and such items as depreciation can be written off against mortgage interest most LL's would be tax compliant as it costs very little if they have a mortgage. A lot however are not registered with PRTB

There's a huge caveat with this though, you can not write off mortgage interest,depreciation etc. unless you are registered with PRTB. It is a small fee to register a tenancy to make huge tax savings so it is a given, if a LL has not registered with the PRTB, they are not tax compliant. The LL does not realise that while they may own the property, the tenant has paid for possession and it is their home. The op has acquired Part 4 tenant rights and therefore notice can only be given based on section 34 of RTA, mind you I can understand why she would want to leave. If i was wearing my professional hat, I would not condone OP using deposit for last month's rent, however..... off the record and based on ll's flagrant disregard of legislation, I totally agree and support this.:D

BostonB

What about LL without mortgages?

sophia25

Tbh most accountants would advise people to raise a mortgage against the property even for refurbishment as the tax take on rental income i very high anyway. Even without a mortgage though there are other tax deductibles that can't be applied if property isn't registered so the idea that people would not pay €90 to be fully compliant and access tax breaks doesn't really make sense.... but maybe there are the odd few. In general you can assume if someone won't pay €90 to register the tenancy they generally aren't that interested in compliance.

BostonB

Would the interest on a mortgage be less then the tax you pay not having one?

bigneacy

tara73 wrote: »

.... explained the fact why you did it (except that you're unemployed...) at all and you don't have to but your side of the story still smells fishy to me as well...

I never said I was unemployed! I said due to my work situation it suited me best, which it does - I don't have to explain my cash flow and banking situation on a public forum, you'll just have to take my explanation that for rent payments (and everything else currently) I pay cash only, as a matter of choice and convenience - not for any illegitimate or immoral reasons. The fact that you find it "fishy" bothers me, not in the slightest.

tara73 wrote: »

...still renting properties without a proper written agreement....

And also - I don't know where along the line I said I didn't have a signed lease and inventory. I have both of these, as well as copies held by my EA.

BostonB

Nothing wrong with cash. You just need a receipt though, and a rent book.

SerialComplaint

BostonB wrote: »

Would the interest on a mortgage be less then the tax you pay not having one?

The interest on the mortgage, less the tax relief on that mortgage interest would generally be less that what you would earn by putting that money on deposit.

So a landlord is better off maximising their mortgage and paying interest nett of tax relief, and keeping their spare cash on deposit that they would be by repaying the mortgage and reducing the debt.

Another great subsidy from Bertie and Brian to the property sector.

KERSPLAT!

I asked before but didn't get an answer,

if I pay cash into my LLs bank acc and get a bank receipt including amount, acc number and my name as reference on the reciept would this do as proof of payment of rent?

bigneacy

UPDATE:

Landlord and her husband called out to the house last night (unannounced as per usual). After our discussion, it is painfully (and hilariously) obvious that they went into their Solicitor all guns blazing and we're told the real lay of the land in this situation. They arrived out with tails between their legs in a last ditch attempt to cover themselves. It actually looked like they were in pain apologising and trying to make out we were all good friends.

They told us they got our letters and they thanked us for doing it all properly, they told us not to be rushing ourselves and that we could take as long as we needed to move out and they were sorry(!!!) for how things got so heated on Tuesday night.

They said so long as we leave the property in good condition then it could all end amicably. The landlady told us that we could reach her anytime by phone if we needed anything and that she regrets it getting out of hand, said she didn't know how it did as she was going to fix the alarm for us(!!!).

Now - I don't know how much of a picture of these people I gave you in my OP and subsequent posts but this was her on tuesday night:



and this was her last night:


(AND BEFORE ANYONE STARTS: She said on tuesday several times she wasn't going to fix the alarm and it wasn't her problem, she never ever answers the phone, she never even pretended to give a ****e before - she wasn't apologising for any reason other than she now realises how vulnerable her situation is)

bigneacy

BostonB wrote: »

Nothing wrong with cash. You just need a receipt though, and a rent book.

Very true, I asked her several times and was blown off (:pac:). I shouldn't have stood for it - I dropped the ball here by not getting a receipt and rent book. It won't be let happen again, believe me.

bigneacy

IPAM wrote: »

I asked before but didn't get an answer,

if I pay cash into my LLs bank acc and get a bank receipt including amount, acc number and my name as reference on the reciept would this do as proof of payment of rent?

I'd imagine it would - its a cash trail that is tangible I suppose.

sophia25

IPAM wrote: »

I asked before but didn't get an answer,

if I pay cash into my LLs bank acc and get a bank receipt including amount, acc number and my name as reference on the reciept would this do as proof of payment of rent?

That is your proof of payment so you have an actual money trail and wouldn't need a rent book etc.

smk89

bigneacy wrote: »

I'd imagine it would - its a cash trail that is tangible I suppose.

So are you still going to tell the PRTB and taxman about her?

SerialComplaint

smk89 wrote: »

So are you still going to tell the PRTB and taxman about her?

Please do - after you've settled everything with her.

Victor

tara73 wrote: »

I didn't questioned that he didn't live there or the LL claiming he didn't live there.
my point is the nonexistent proof of any paid money/rent towards the LL!
I strongly doubt there's proof of a paid deposit.

so how can a cashflow be reported to revenue if there's no proof of this cashflow??

The lay use of the word "proof" is too high a standard. A judge will take the balance of evidence based on what appears to be the most reliable witnesses and most reliable evidence.

Victor

IPAM wrote: »

I asked before but didn't get an answer,

if I pay cash into my LLs bank acc and get a bank receipt including amount, acc number and my name as reference on the reciept would this do as proof of payment of rent?

In most cases it would be reasonable evidence.

It isn't conclusive evidence, e.g. the landlord could argue that he had loaned you money and that you were merely repaying him. You could counter this by saying the amount matched the rent amount on the lease, etc.

KERSPLAT!

Victor wrote: »

In most cases it would be reasonable evidence.

It isn't conclusive evidence, e.g. the landlord could argue that he had loaned you money and that you were merely repaying him. You could counter this by saying the amount matched the rent amount on the lease, etc.

Good to know, Thanks

johnners2981

bigneacy wrote: »

UPDATE:

Landlord and her husband called out to the house last night (unannounced as per usual). After our discussion, it is painfully (and hilariously) obvious that they went into their Solicitor all guns blazing and we're told the real lay of the land in this situation. They arrived out with tails between their legs in a last ditch attempt to cover themselves. It actually looked like they were in pain apologising and trying to make out we were all good friends.

They told us they got our letters and they thanked us for doing it all properly, they told us not to be rushing ourselves and that we could take as long as we needed to move out and they were sorry(!!!) for how things got so heated on Tuesday night.

They said so long as we leave the property in good condition then it could all end amicably. The landlady told us that we could reach her anytime by phone if we needed anything and that she regrets it getting out of hand, said she didn't know how it did as she was going to fix the alarm for us(!!!).

Please say you're still going to report her, can't let LLs like this get away

Graces7

bigneacy wrote: »

UPDATE:

Landlord and her husband called out to the house last night (unannounced as per usual). After our discussion, it is painfully (and hilariously) obvious that they went into their Solicitor all guns blazing and we're told the real lay of the land in this situation. They arrived out with tails between their legs in a last ditch attempt to cover themselves. It actually looked like they were in pain apologising and trying to make out we were all good friends.

They told us they got our letters and they thanked us for doing it all properly, they told us not to be rushing ourselves and that we could take as long as we needed to move out and they were sorry(!!!) for how things got so heated on Tuesday night.

They said so long as we leave the property in good condition then it could all end amicably. The landlady told us that we could reach her anytime by phone if we needed anything and that she regrets it getting out of hand, said she didn't know how it did as she was going to fix the alarm for us(!!!).

Now - I don't know how much of a picture of these people I gave you in my OP and subsequent posts but this was her on tuesday night:



and this was her last night:


(AND BEFORE ANYONE STARTS: She said on tuesday several times she wasn't going to fix the alarm and it wasn't her problem, she never ever answers the phone, she never even pretended to give a ****e before - she wasn't apologising for any reason other than she now realises how vulnerable her situation is)

Did my old heart to read this!

We have had similar "success" here after a year of aggro from an old man neighbour re a defunct right of way. All the local Gardai know the way here now

He was apparently finally told by his solicitor that there is no right of way- period. We only learned this when we came home from a long day at market to find the gate had been destroyed with an axe and he had rampaged, throwing the gas bottle round etc - and using the drive as his toilet.

When the Gardai went round to him, he apparently threatened to kill them and raised his fists to them.

Which did not go down well of course;)

That was June 1st and all has been quiet since.. it is called as in your case, giving them enough rope to hang themselves. Using the correct channels always,,,,

Please God you find peace and pleasure in your new house. You deserve it.