The Road Less Traveled: IM 2012

griffin100

I've developed a severe sinus problem from either the water or the chlorine. Without a nose clip I would be sneezing and so blocked up I wouldn't be able to sleep. Lasts for about a day after every swim. Started wearing a clip last week and it cures the problem.

I've posted this before but in case you haven't seen it......

I used to have the same problem. After a session I'd be struggling to breath for a day or two with blocked nose, painful sinuses, etc. Wearing a nose clip fixed the problem but it was a pain as it kept falling off and I'd spend ages looking for it in the pool:rolleyes: What I now do is after every swim I gently wash out my sinuses with clean water. I use a sports drink bottle to squirt the water up each nostril in turn to clean out any chlorinated water that may be up there. I do this 2-3 times in each nostril but you do have to be gentle, otherwise you'll blow your ears out:D Once I've done this I then squirt flixonase up each nostril a couple of times. Flixonase is great as it does't need a prescription and can be taken repeatably without ill effects (as opposed to something like Otravil). Once I started doing this my problems cleared up completely. It might sound like a pain but once you're used to it it takes about 30secs. Give it a go! Only issue is that flixonase is about €13 a bottle but it does last a good while (depending on how much swimming you're doing;)).

RedB

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Its a good bet that both of your will be out on the course on your own for 6 hours - theres a clue for you

pgibbo

shotgunmcos wrote: »

It depends a lot of things. If its your first IM and you just want to get around, I'd advocate a focus on endurance. If you have a time in mind as you 2 do then you have to consider some metrics as you will have target set out to hit your 12:30-12:45.

Ideally you want to remain within 75% of your FTP (max hourly average output) to still have the legs to be in with a chance to execute your run target. If you are not working with power then its good to test with HR and find some values to work with. Zones for instance.

Can you bring them both along. Probably, but to a point of diminishing return. At some point you will be close to maxing out your turbo sessions and the sessions will leave you tired. The endurance rides are going to get longer too needing more recovery.

Without a doubt your key session is the long bike. Get used to doing it within your zones too as belting off with a group and hanging on for racing at the end is not doing much for your IM.

There is no urgency to build anything with the IM journey either. Its a good bet that both of your will be out on the course on your own for 6 hours - theres a clue for you

So you already have a long bike, long run and longer swim set pencilled in. Bike intervals and technical swim set next and your week is looking full already. Scatter a few shorter runs and another swim/bike and a rest day and you are doing well already

You will see that Fink doesn't have any intensity in his bikes until peak phase. That programme is simply about building the volume and is grand to get you raround in 12.5 hours.

What I alluded to in my earlier post was, if you feel strength is a limiter, address it early.

Have to agree with a lot of what is said here. I think the main thing is to enjoy your IM and to that I think the endurance will probably be your priority. I would also advocate adapting a HR approach to your training.

MCOS - do you think a rest day is needed every week? Just curious as I used active recovery over rest days for most of my training.

Oryx

Some great advice here. Thank you. Dunno about the water up the nose, I'm funny about stuff like that And I have a max hr test this weekend. I'm doing it so I have some kind of stats to work from.

Oryx

11k run yesterday. 50k bike today. Bringing me to the end of an 8 hour week. Feels like too little but I suppose I might as well enjoy the low hours for now.

Oryx

Did the hr test today. Asked a pt to help with it and as he hadn't done a test like this before it was a learning exercise for both of us. I maxed at 175 but it took a long time to get to it as I reckon the turbo resistance was too low. I also thought I would feel worse at the end, I was done in, but not to the point of wanting to throw up. I'm gonna wait a few weeks and repeat the test with a harder start because I have it in the back of my head that I might have an extra few beats to go.

shotgunmcos

Oryx wrote: »

Did the hr test today. Asked a pt to help with it and as he hadn't done a test like this before it was a learning exercise for both of us. I maxed at 175 but it took a long time to get to it as I reckon the turbo resistance was too low. I also thought I would feel worse at the end, I was done in, but not to the point of wanting to throw up. I'm gonna wait a few weeks and repeat the test with a harder start because I have it in the back of my head that I might have an extra few beats to go.

Hey Oryx, what was your average HR for that test? Doing reps at 90% of that value would be a good place to start for building work. 75% of max hr is then good approx place to cap base work

There is always a little more there. I did a session where I thougt I had maxed out at 179 at the weekend, then did one.more.rep and it ticked over to 180. I nearly ticked over off the bike too in the process!

BTW nothing wrong with an 8 hour week at this stage. Its more than I got done last week. Quality over quantity and all that

RacoonQueen

Oryx wrote: »

Did the hr test today. Asked a pt to help with it and as he hadn't done a test like this before it was a learning exercise for both of us. I maxed at 175 but it took a long time to get to it as I reckon the turbo resistance was too low. I also thought I would feel worse at the end, I was done in, but not to the point of wanting to throw up. I'm gonna wait a few weeks and repeat the test with a harder start because I have it in the back of my head that I might have an extra few beats to go.

Have you tried doing it while running? I find my HR to be quite low on the bike even when I feel like I'm really pushing myself.

shotgunmcos

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Have you tried doing it while running? I find my HR to be quite low on the bike even when I feel like I'm really pushing myself.

Bike max HR is usually lower. Mine is approx 10 beats lower. Hard to get the HR up that high when you are essentially using half of your body It would be pretty hard to do bike reps on running hr zones. You could find yourself over your SS or in the red too often

Oryx

Average was 162 I think. I stopped the test when I just couldn't keep my cadence up. And I still feel a bit weak now so I know I worked. It does give me stats to work from anyway, and they aren't far off what I was using. I've never tried to see what my hr would max at when running. Sometime when I have a short run planned I'll throw in a hard sprint. A while back I trained with someone who ran me into the ground, my hr would have been low 170s then.

RacoonQueen

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Bike max HR is usually lower. Mine is approx 10 beats lower. Hard to get the HR up that high when you are essentially using half of your body It would be pretty hard to do bike reps on running hr zones. You could find yourself over your SS or in the red too often

Is that all? :eek: I must by cycling too slow :pac:

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Have you tried doing it while running? I find my HR to be quite low on the bike even when I feel like I'm really pushing myself.

HR for the bike is usually 5% less than your running MHR. For example i would have a MHR of 193 on the running yet my MHR for the bike would be 183. I have only ever hit the MHR on the bike once as it is very difficult to do.

Oryx wrote: »

Average was 162 I think. I stopped the test when I just couldn't keep my cadence up. And I still feel a bit weak now so I know I worked. It does give me stats to work from anyway, and they aren't far off what I was using. I've never tried to see what my hr would max at when running. Sometime when I have a short run planned I'll throw in a hard sprint. A while back I trained with someone who ran me into the ground, my hr would have been low 170s then.

I would say your max is slightly higher than the 175 you hit today as it is very very hard to get up to MHR on the bike compared to running. I would work off the number for now but it is likely your MHR on the bike is around the low 180's similar to mine (183mhr bike and 193mhr run).
Based on that your numbers would look like mine as,

Active Recovery
56% to 74% bike - 103bpm to 136bpm and run - 108bpm to 143bpm
Endurance (most of your work and actual IM pacing will be in this zone)
75% to 85% bike - 137bpm to 156bpm and run 144bpm to 164bpm
Middle zone
86% to 89% bike - 157bpm to 163bpm and run 165bpm to 172bpm
Anaerobic
90% to 95% bike - 164bpm to 174bpm and run 173bpm to 183bpm
L/Threshold
95% to 100% bike - 175bpm to 183bpm and run 184bpm to 193bpm

Enjoy:)

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Is that all? :eek: I must by cycling too slow :pac:

What are you normally hitting?

RacoonQueen

Wells Delicious Gazelle wrote: »

HR for the bike is usually 5% less than your running MHR. For example i would have a MHR of 193 on the running yet my MHR for the bike would be 183. I have only ever hit the MHR on the bike once as it is very difficult to do.

I know that yeah, I probably could have worded that post better - just wondering if she's ever done the run max HR test. My max on the bike would be more like 20 bpm lower though. Long time since I've compared the two mind...

Oryx

jb thats brilliant stuff. Thank you. Those zones will come in useful. Finally I feel that my training is going to have proper structure.

RQ what were you doing when you hit that max on the bike? Cos the highest I ever went to when training would have been about 168.

catweazle

Try this one perhaps - I could never get over the 150's till I tried this bad boy, starts easy but it sneaks up on you

http://www.turbotraining.co.uk/indoor_cycling_workout.php?id=633

Oryx

Can't view that right now catweasle. The test I used was the very straightforward one from the black book. 95 rpm constant, harder gear every two mins till you cant maintain the cadence. No rest intervals. With someone to shout at ya at the end of course.

Oryx

Kettlebells last night. Used 12kgs for most things, including 2 x 12 for double up swing, clean, squat and press. Something went ping in my left elbow though so I skipped the last few snatches and the pushups, and the l/h get up. Feels fine today though.

Have been attempting pullups afterwards, with little success. I can do one perfect slow pullup, but then have to release and start again for a second. Cant get these arms to pull me back up from fully extended! Still, managed about 12 altogether and it should improve. Used to be able to do these things, but this is what happens when you swim/bike/run and forget about strength work!

Oryx

Coached swim. Feck but it was hard. I'm still having bother with breathing during kick drills so 250m fc kick was torture. 1600m of fun stuff like that, finishing with 4 x 25m no breath. Which I couldn't do. Sneaked one or two gulps of air now and then. Very tough.

Oryx

Turbo. Coached session. Didn't feel as hard as the previous weeks, hr was down, tho held cad in the saddle @ 95+ and out @ 70 which for me is better. Did 20 mins non stop arm and core work after which was pure murder as usual. Lots of sighing and 'Ah jaysis' from one or two..

Oryx

Swim. Which I did half asleep. 1600m. Mostly just swam but with a few progressive sets at the end.

Oryx

Ran yesterday. It wasn't good. Brick today, using turbo for the bike. Is bucketing with rain and I can't bring my baby out in that. Four miles x 2 with a 50 min hill set in the middle. Second run was a min and a half quicker, I musta been sleepy or lazy for the first one.

7 and a quarter hours this week. Bum.

Oryx

More running in the rain today. Which is quite pleasant except for the funny looks you get. Did one of my longer runs but in reverse. I've avoided doing this before because of a beeatch of a hill that I usually run down. Very hard going getting up it but great ballbuster prep. 7.55m total. My av pace 8.6mm, with splits getting faster as I got into it, but the hill was 10.15. Thats my best few days running all year, and I realise how much I miss out on proper run sessions as I try to fit everything in. Something I will have to work on.

Oryx

Kbs. Very tough set. Lots of long reps and endless non stop sets of varied moves. At the end of the 45 mins everyone there was either on the floor or bent double panting and swearing. Thats the mark of a good class. Pull ups afterward. No obvious improvement.

Oryx

Well tonight I am sitting at home instead of swimming. So much for my hard start to the week. Now, I'm not blaming three runs in the rain or anything... But I have a stinking head cold, feel like cr@p. It was a hard decision whether to HTFU or not, but gave in to commonsense. Or laziness. Not sure which.

RedB

Hope you're feeling better Oryx. Is that the sound of your Turbo calling?

Oryx

I feel mildly yuk but not too bad, thanks. Perpetual bloody headache at the mo is the worst of it.

My turbo did call last night, did a club session. An hour, but it wasn't too intense.

I did miss my 7am swim this morning though, I will get some fresh htfu pills tomorrow though.

Oryx

Got a swim in while my kids had their lesson. 1640 which felt sluggish but did a bit of work on form which can't hurt. So caught up on one session at least.

RedB

Oryx wrote: »

Got a swim in while my kids had their lesson. 1640 which felt sluggish but did a bit of work on form which can't hurt. So caught up on one session at least.

Good to hear that the HTFUpills arrived early .well done

Oryx

Needed more of them pills to get out into the dark, foul weather this morning. Wind, rain and thick fog - the gods of bad weather were throwing a bleedin party. Heavy legs added to this being a slow run but got the planned 11k done.

Oryx

50k bike today. Slow, but that wasn't entirely intentional. Seem to have left mojo at home. 7hr 40 this week. Ok considering I had dropped a session.