Dinosaurs are a conspiracy

nyarlothothep

"The following issues raise red flags as to the integrity of the dinosaur industry and cast doubts as to whether dinosaurs ever existed.

1. Nature of dinosaur discoveries - only within the last 150 years and in huge unusual concentrated quantities going against the laws of nature and probability.

2. Nature of dinosaur discoverers and excavators - not by (initially) disinterested parties. When discovered by parties without a vested interest, they need to be told by dinosaur experts that they are dinosaur bones.

3. Nature of public display preparation - integrity and source of fossils - possible tampering and bone substitution and possible fraudulent activities on a massive scale.

4. Existing artistic drawings and public exhibits showing off-balance and awkward postures that basic physics would rule out as being possible.

5. Very low odds of all these dinosaur bones being fossilized but not the bones of other animals.

6. Implications of dinosaur discoveries to the theory of evolution and the belief that man was created in God's image, suggesting possible hidden and subtle political or religious agendas served on a naive and unsuspecting public.

7. A lack of organizations and people questioning or being skeptical of each and every discovery and public display. Dinosaurs are popular."

Dinosaurs never existed and they don't want you to know the truth.

Torakx

Hmm i dont know how to challenge or support such statements.
Interesting thoughts though

Do you personally believe that dinosaurs werent in existence?
And if so what do you think those bones belong to if theyare indeed bones?

RGDATA!

Torakx wrote: »

Hmm i dont know how to challenge or support such statements.
Interesting thoughts though

Do you personally believe that dinosaurs werent in existence?
And if so what do you think those bones belong to if theyare indeed bones?

Torakx - one theory is that there is a God and that he placed them here to test our faith (specifically regarding the age of the world)

nyarlothothep, is this your own opinion or a cut-and-paste from somewhere else, and if it is a cut-and-paste:
- where is it from?
- what's your opinion of it?

i don't understand point 5- is it really proposing: the only fossils are those of dinosaurs, there are none of other animals, this is a bit too much of a coincidence?

i don't understand point 7 - is it really proposing: because there are no organisations/people questioning every dinosaur exhibit that goes up, this raises doubts as to whether they ever existed?

point 6 seems to tie the whole argument to a belief in god - suggesting possible hidden or subtle religious agenda!

clever_name

Ok allow me to play along,

nyarlothothep wrote: »

"The following issues raise red flags as to the integrity of the dinosaur industry and cast doubts as to whether dinosaurs ever existed.

Please provide details of the dinosaur industry, how many people are employed, annual turnover, operation structures and so on.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

1. Nature of dinosaur discoveries - only within the last 150 years and in huge unusual concentrated quantities going against the laws of nature and probability.

source for this please, and only making the discoveries after the period when large scale excavation became possible, what are the odds?

Also what laws of nature are you referring to? the same type of animal being clustered together is against the laws of nature now? really...

nyarlothothep wrote: »

2. Nature of dinosaur discoverers and excavators - not by (initially) disinterested parties. When discovered by parties without a vested interest, they need to be told by dinosaur experts that they are dinosaur bones.

So they were mainly found by people who were looking for something and then by people who went looking for them... no idea what this proves to you.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

3. Nature of public display preparation - integrity and source of fossils - possible tampering and bone substitution and possible fraudulent activities on a massive scale.

possible? any evidence?... moving on.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

4. Existing artistic drawings and public exhibits showing off-balance and awkward postures that basic physics would rule out as being possible.

That statement could apply to almost any skeleton.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

5. Very low odds of all these dinosaur bones being fossilized but not the bones of other animals.

Correct, thats why many types of fossils exist.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

6. Implications of dinosaur discoveries to the theory of evolution and the belief that man was created in God's image, suggesting possible hidden and subtle political or religious agendas served on a naive and unsuspecting public.

Really... I suggest you head over the religion forum, I would ask for evidence but I fear the bible may be used.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

7. A lack of organizations and people questioning or being skeptical of each and every discovery and public display. Dinosaurs are popular."

Yes the lack of people questioning the reality of dinosaurs, would this be the same as the lack of people questioning gravity? Should we establish a dedicated group of people to investigate dinosaur discoveries? I say yes - we want the DinoCops.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Dinosaurs never existed and they don't want you to know the truth.

Who are "they" as much detail as you can please. please tell us why "they" got together several hundred years ago and created the myth of dinosaurs and then spent the next few centuries depositing fake fossils all around the globe.

hooradiation

RGDATA! wrote: »

Torakx - one theory is that there is a God and that he placed them here to test our faith (specifically regarding the age of the world)

Obligatory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk

From 2m 26s onwards.

I know of someone who is a staunch Catholic and rejects evolution. He claims the dinosaurs never existed as they are not mentioned in the Bible. His words, not mine.

Jonny7

Can't tell if this guy is serious or not..

I'll see what he says

clever_name

Jonny7 wrote: »

Can't tell if this guy is serious or not..

I'll see what he says

I doubt nyarlothothep has an opinion, serious or otherwise, the post its just a copy & paste job. The guy who came up with the "theory" is a religious crackpot and if nyarlothothep tries to defend any of it then I suggest we steer him to the religion forum or back to his home under a bridge

seamus

nyarlothothep wrote: »

1. Nature of dinosaur discoveries - only within the last 150 years and in huge unusual concentrated quantities going against the laws of nature and probability.

"unusual concentrated quantities"? By what measure? By understanding the nature of fossilisation, how and where it occurs, efforts can be focussed on excavating sites and areas most likely to contan fossils. It also stands to reason that if a particular environment or set of circumstances is more amenable to fossilisation, then you are going to find "unusual" concentrations of fossils in those sites.

2. Nature of dinosaur discoverers and excavators - not by (initially) disinterested parties. When discovered by parties without a vested interest, they need to be told by dinosaur experts that they are dinosaur bones.

When you find a stray dog, you typically need to bring it to an expert to find out what breed it is. I don't see why there's anything strange about requiring an expert to identify a bone.
They're found often enough by disinterested parties because there are far more people digging up the ground around the world for non-scientific reasons, than there are brushing the dirt in some remote location.

Nature of public display preparation - integrity and source of fossils - possible tampering and bone substitution and possible fraudulent activities on a massive scale.

You could say the same for anything on public display. Maybe Leonardo Da Vinci never existed. It's possible that the entire contents of the Louvre has been tampered with or are frauds on a grand scale.

4. Existing artistic drawings and public exhibits showing off-balance and awkward postures that basic physics would rule out as being possible.

Perhaps, if the animals were nothing but bone. Have you any proof that the skeletal strucutures of dinosaurs are physical impossibilities?

5. Very low odds of all these dinosaur bones being fossilized but not the bones of other animals.

You don't think other animals have been fossilised? The volume of fossils located is an indication of just how plentiful the dinosaurs were and for how long they existed on the planet. Basically, they were everywhere for a long, long time. We've only found a fraction of the dinosaur species which ever existed.

6. Implications of dinosaur discoveries to the theory of evolution and the belief that man was created in God's image, suggesting possible hidden and subtle political or religious agendas served on a naive and unsuspecting public.

The concept of evolution didn't really get any major foothold until the mid-1800's (and even then it was a very niche scientific idea). The first dinosaur fossils were discovered nearly 200 years before this, and the concept of the dinosaur existed fifty years before Darwin's well-known book.

7. A lack of organizations and people questioning or being skeptical of each and every discovery and public display. Dinosaurs are popular.

Skepticism needs a basis. One side presents their evidence, the other side needs to produce counter-evidence. "I don't trust you", or "I don't believe you" aren't sufficient. You need to either demonstrate flaws in their evidence or disprove it entirely with a contradictory set of evidence.

Monty Burnz

I think that most elements are also a conspiracy, invented by the element industry.

If you look into the past, there were only 4 elements (earth, air, fire and water). Now there is over a hundred. And they only started 'discovering' these elements at the same time as the science industry started (about 150 years ago, oddly enough). And normal people can't seem to detect an awful lot of these elements - only scientists from the element industry can find them.

Clearly another conspiracy.

FloatingVoter

Hmmm...I know a guy who'd be pretty high up in revenue by now. He believed God wrote the bible. When asked who did the editing...confused look.
For fossils of things other than Dinosaurs, look up "amber" on Google. Some pretty old wasps and bees out there - not the Spielberg version.

BTW Noah was 90 (not 900) when he drank his shipwrecked ass to death. Drunk people are inclined to commit typos.

PseudoFamous

I think that money is a conspiracy.

1. Money began appearing on a large, unevenly distributed scale about 800 years ago. In the last 150 years, it existed on an unprecedented scale, far larger than the sum physically possible to have been printed.

2. All money is produced by bankers and Germans, hardly disinterested parties. When produced by somebody who is not allowed to do so by the bankers, they get arrested and jailed.

3. There is less in existence than is thought. People of the world commonly think there is about $72tn of money, but there is no way that this money could exist, through both lack of storage and the time involved in printed this money.

4. Before money existed, people traded items of similar value, but now they trade paper for items of value. Paper can be acquired very cheaply, so it is impossible that they would have the same value as the items or resources that they purchase.

5. A lack of organizations and people questioning or being skeptical of each and every printing and reserve.

Money doesn't exist and they don't want you to know the truth.

Torakx

lol PseudoFamous nice one.

Galvasean

Do people want me to refute in detail?

Or can I just continue to laugh aloud where I sit?

Myrddin

nyarlothothep wrote: »

"The following issues raise red flags as to the integrity of the dinosaur industry and cast doubts as to whether dinosaurs ever existed.

1. Nature of dinosaur discoveries - only within the last 150 years and in huge unusual concentrated quantities going against the laws of nature and probability.

2. Nature of dinosaur discoverers and excavators - not by (initially) disinterested parties. When discovered by parties without a vested interest, they need to be told by dinosaur experts that they are dinosaur bones.

3. Nature of public display preparation - integrity and source of fossils - possible tampering and bone substitution and possible fraudulent activities on a massive scale.

4. Existing artistic drawings and public exhibits showing off-balance and awkward postures that basic physics would rule out as being possible.

5. Very low odds of all these dinosaur bones being fossilized but not the bones of other animals.

6. Implications of dinosaur discoveries to the theory of evolution and the belief that man was created in God's image, suggesting possible hidden and subtle political or religious agendas served on a naive and unsuspecting public.

7. A lack of organizations and people questioning or being skeptical of each and every discovery and public display. Dinosaurs are popular."

Dinosaurs never existed and they don't want you to know the truth.

There's more evidence of dinosaurs, than there is of any God who was ever worshipped on the planet.

King Mob

Galvasean wrote: »

Do people want me to refute in detail?

Or can I just continue to laugh aloud where I sit?

Do both.

clever_name

Galvasean wrote: »

Do people want me to refute in detail?

Or can I just continue to laugh aloud where I sit?

Well why would we trust you? for all we know your part of the dinosaur industry

I think a response from someone who has detailed knowlege of dinosaurs would be good but without nyarlothothep expanding on his original post you would not be able to respond to any of the more fun points, like who "they" are.

Sparticle

Galvasean wrote: »

Do people want me to refute in detail?

Or can I just continue to laugh aloud where I sit?

I think it would make everyone's day if you took this apart.

phill106

Karsini wrote: »

I know of someone who is a staunch Catholic and rejects evolution. He claims the dinosaurs never existed as they are not mentioned in the Bible. His words, not mine.

Was your friend mentioned in the bible? Specifically your friend, by name. Ask him that...
If he wasn't mentioned in the bible, does he not exist then?

LordSutch

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Dinosaurs are a conspiracy

I presume you are part of the same 'Creationist' movement also claim that planet earth is no more than six thousand years old.

clever_name

phill106 wrote: »

Was your friend mentioned in the bible? Specifically your friend, by name. Ask him that...
If he wasn't mentioned in the bible, does he not exist then?

Of couce the bible does not mention him by name, thats gods way of testing him.

Galvasean

I will probably end up echoing points made by Seamus but so be it...

nyarlothothep wrote: »

"The following issues raise red flags as to the integrity of the dinosaur industry and cast doubts as to whether dinosaurs ever existed.

I don't think you could say dinosaurs are an industry any more than penguins, tigers or pandas are. Yes they are interesting creatures which are commercially viable if applied in certain ways (toys, movies etc.), but to say they are an industry is simply incorrect. Dinosaurs are not copyrighted. Not copyrighting one's commercial creations would be a very bad business move.

1. Nature of dinosaur discoveries - only within the last 150 years and in huge unusual concentrated quantities going against the laws of nature and probability.

Dinosaur fossils have been found long before 150 years ago. The ancient Greeks found many specimens of prehistoric creatures, most of which were interpreted as creatures from their myths (or perhaps inspired said myths in some cases).
Interest in fossil hunting has increased in recent decades as well as better fossil finding techniques. To put it simply, more people with better knowhow are searching for fossils these days. When you actively search for something the odds of finding it increase exponentially (oddly enough).
To say the number of discoveries goes against the laws of nature and probability shows a shocking ignorance of said laws, particularly in relation to how fossilisation occurs, the probability of fossilisation and the sheer number of creatures to have lived and died over hundreds of millions of years. Even though the chances of an individual creature being fossilised and found by humans at a much later date are remotely low, when you factor in the unfathomable number of individual dinosaurs that lived and die in the past 300 million years the odds of us finding specimens are much much better.

2. Nature of dinosaur discoverers and excavators - not by (initially) disinterested parties. When discovered by parties without a vested interest, they need to be told by dinosaur experts that they are dinosaur bones.

This is a problem for you? Should we expect people with no interest or knowledge in relation to dinosaurs to automatically recognise dinosaur fossils when they stumble across them without guidance from someone with more experience/knowledge?
As it happens many key dinosaur discoveries have been made by amateurs. In many cases these people could tell enough about the fossils to recognise that they belonged to prehistoric creatures and called in experts to get a better understanding.
Would you be skeptical of someone with no interest / knowledge in say, aircraft design who had to call in an expert to identify the wreckage of a plane they found.

3. Nature of public display preparation - integrity and source of fossils - possible tampering and bone substitution and possible fraudulent activities on a massive scale.

It is no secret among the palaeontological community that many of the dinosaur specimens we see on display in museums are casts based on actual fossils. The real fossils are often too valuable in terms of research to be hung up on public display where experts cannot study them in any great detail. Public display of rare and/or scientifically valuable fossils also exposes said fossils to the risk of theft or damage from the public (flash photography, for example, can damage fragile fossils).
There have actually been cases of tampering with fossils by this seeking to profit from selling said fossils to members of the scientific community. Well known examples include Irritator and 'Archaeoraptor'. In both cases it must be noted that it was the work of palaeontologists which exposed these hoaxes to preserve the purity of their science, not conspiracy theorist bloggers.

4. Existing artistic drawings and public exhibits showing off-balance and awkward postures that basic physics would rule out as being possible.

Art =/= Science.
Artistic restorations of dinosaurs are often somewhat fanciful and/or inaccurate due to misinterpretations of scientific descriptions. The most accurate depictions of dinosaurs are usually found in peer reviewed scientific literature (that is assuming the paper in question described the specimens correctly in the first place). How people choose to draw dinosaurs has no bearing on the reality of their appearance, just appearances in popular culture.
Saying inaccurate drawings of dinosaurs is evidence against the existence of dinosaurs is much like someone saying the movie Superman is evidence against human beings existing, ie: ludicrous!

5. Very low odds of all these dinosaur bones being fossilized but not the bones of other animals.

See my response to point #1.

[quoute]
6. Implications of dinosaur discoveries to the theory of evolution and the belief that man was created in God's image, suggesting possible hidden and subtle political or religious agendas served on a naive and unsuspecting public.[/quote]

7. A lack of organizations and people questioning or being skeptical of each and every discovery and public display. Dinosaurs are popular."

Response to pints #6 & #7 coupled.
Actually the Young Earth Creationist movement scrutinizes virtually every major dinosaur discovery, particularly those which would appear to be supportive of evolution, with great zeal in an attempt to undermine the theory of evolution which they are so adverse to.
Also members of the palaeontological community actively 'peer review' each others findings, searching for mistakes / looking to make corrections. Many palaeontologsts make their reputations / careers from scrutinizing / correcting the work of other palaeontologists. In some cases bitter rivalries emerge as a result.

Dinosaurs never existed and they don't want you to know the truth.

Nonsense.

Myrddin

Galvasean wrote: »

<awesome post>

That, is how it's done :cool:

fontanalis

EnterNow wrote: »

That, is how it's done :cool:

Yes, just a pity some people will ignore it.

Myrddin

fontanalis wrote: »

Yes, just a pity some people will ignore it.

Nothing you can do about that man. Take solace in the high road I say

clever_name

Great post Galvasean, many thanks

we await a rebutal from nyarlothothep...

Undergod

clever_name wrote: »

Well why would we trust you? for all we know your part of the dinosaur industry

He is! Probably a mason too.

Galvasean

clever_name wrote: »

Great post Galvasean, many thanks

we await a rebutal from nyarlothothep...

And I shall pre-empt that rebuttal by saying:
"Every time a child says 'I dont believe in dinosaurs, one drops dead...
Hence the extinction!"

Penn

Galvasean wrote: »

Big Post

Yeah, well you can prove anything with facts... :rolleyes:

humanji

Okay, the earliest copy of this cut & paste job I can find is from 1998, but it may be older.

Nyarlothothep, why are you pasting this here?

nyarlothothep

Humanji wrote:

Okay, the earliest copy of this cut & paste job I can find is from 1998, but it may be older.

Nyarlothothep, why are you pasting this here?

I want to challenge people and stimulate debate.:)