The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

kub

eatmyshorts wrote: »

You sound like a journo fishing for a sensationalist headline.

I was about to mention another fact about that incident that has been already reported , but I agree with your suspicion, so won't.

adam88

kub wrote: »

I was about to mention another fact about that incident that has been already reported , but I agree with your suspicion, so won't.

If ye may research my profile ye would see that I'm far from a journo.

keith16

Back on topic. From a pilots perspective, how does ILS work? Is there a display that shows them where they are on the glide slope? What's a localiser?

LeftBase

keith16 wrote: »

Back on topic. From a pilots perspective, how does ILS work? Is there a display that shows them where they are on the glide slope? What's a localiser?

The little solid pink diamond on the right side with the line of circles is for the glideslope...the hollow pink diamond on the bottom is the localiser...with both diamonds on the centre lines you are on course. The flight director The localiser keeps you lined up with the runway.

That is how it is presented

Growler!!!

keith16 wrote: »

Back on topic. From a pilots perspective, how does ILS work? Is there a display that shows them where they are on the glide slope? What's a localiser?

This is a quick guide and shows a basic instrument setup. It's a lot more colourful in an airliner.

http://youtu.be/KVtEfDcNMO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVtEfDcNMO8

keith16

That's cool, so when the aircraft "intercepts" the signal, does the aircraft "lock on". In other words, can the flight computer "see" the localiser and glideslope and adjust auto-throttle and auto pilot to keep the pink diamonds in the centre?

Or is it "hand flying" at that stage?

keith16

Can't play that youtube link Growler!

Edit: Working now!

LeftBase

keith16 wrote: »

That's cool, so when the aircraft "intercepts" the signal, does the aircraft "lock on". In other words, can the flight computer "see" the localiser and glideslope and adjust auto-throttle and auto pilot to keep the pink diamonds in the centre?

Or is it "hand flying" at that stage?

The aircraft can keep on localiser and glideslope and land on "autoland". Depends on the type of approach and airline SOPs when you will hand fly the aircraft. Flying raw data (hand flying all the way along the approach) is rare in a jet in commercial operations. In clear conditions the autopilot may be disengaged between 1500-1000 feet. In proper IMC you may go full autoland all the way down or disengage at 100 above minimums. Full autolands can lead to heavy landings and would not be used in rough windy conditions.

EDIT: The above are my company's procedures...should point that out

Growler!!!

keith16 wrote: »

That's cool, so when the aircraft "intercepts" the signal, does the aircraft "lock on". In other words, can the flight computer "see" the localiser and glideslope and adjust auto-throttle and auto pilot to keep the pink diamonds in the centre?

Or is it "hand flying" at that stage?

Fixed it there.

For us, we have no auto throttle. When armed the auto pilot will capture the localiser and turn the plane onto runway heading. It will then follow the glide slope and descend.

At any time the autopilot can be disconnected. We are encouraged to do it:)

Growler!!!

Lol, even though it looks like leftbase and myself are giving you conflicting info regarding how the ILS is flown. We are flying different aircraft for different companies. Just thought I'd clarify that...

Senecio

As a general rule, how much throttle (%) is used for a standard takeoff? I took off on runway 16 this morning and I definitely felt a greater shove in the back than normal and we had our nose up quick smart with plenty of runway to spare.

I understand it would be aircraft type and runway length dependent but I'm just curious how much headroom is there to be used at the pilots discretion for the conditions over a standard takeoff.

hidinginthebush

LeftBase wrote: »

The aircraft can keep on localiser and glideslope and land on "autoland". Depends on the type of approach and airline SOPs when you will hand fly the aircraft. Flying raw data (hand flying all the way along the approach) is rare in a jet in commercial operations. In clear conditions the autopilot may be disengaged between 1500-1000 feet. In proper IMC you may go full autoland all the way down or disengage at 100 above minimums. Full autolands can lead to heavy landings and would not be used in rough windy conditions.

EDIT: The above are my company's procedures...should point that out

Is there any occasion where the SOPs say you HAVE to use autoland, or is it generally discouraged?

pclancy

Please folks a friendly reminder that this thread is for questions and answers relating to being a pilot etc as per the first page, not the place for discussion of your views of any airline or specific flight fuel policy...certainly not the place for speculation as we had a few pages back

LeftBase

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Is there any occasion where the SOPs say you HAVE to use autoland, or is it generally discouraged?

On a CAT III approach it is recommended that we use autoland so as to minimise workload and allow monitoring of parameters etc. However there is no hard and fast "you must use it in this case" rule...it is crew discretion. Autoland touch downs tend to be very "positive" and the engineers feel they increase wear on the gear etc.

If you land in a blizzard in the depths of winter you can be CAT III with pretty high winds. In this case with a crosswind of 20kts or more you cannot use autoland as that is above the crosswind limit for autoland...however if the conditions were like that you may be thinking of cracking open the alternate fuel!

NewSigGuy

LeftBase wrote: »

On a CAT III approach it is recommended that we use autoland so as to minimise workload and allow monitoring of parameters etc. However there is no hard and fast "you must use it in this case" rule...it is crew discretion. Autoland touch downs tend to be very "positive" and the engineers feel they increase wear on the gear etc.

If you land in a blizzard in the depths of winter you can be CAT III with pretty high winds. In this case with a crosswind of 20kts or more you cannot use autoland as that is above the crosswind limit for autoland...however if the conditions were like that you may be thinking of cracking open the alternate fuel!

I think there is some confusion in the above statement, as far as I understand a CAT 111 approach and landing is by definition an auto land. The intention in CAT 111 conditions is an auto land, there are differences between CAT 111a and CAT 111b but they are still by definition approaches to auto land. In my experience there are no issues with the touchdown and I have never heard from engineering any problems with regards to wear and tear.
Us pilots are the main culprits for the "Firm" arrivals.
There is some difference with regards to CAT 11 approaches as these can be to either a manual landing or an auto land depending on crew preference and approach characteristics.

For a CAT 111 approach there are specific visual requirements and also wind limits, they are requirements, and if the wind is above the limit then the approach can not be flown as your intention on a CAT 111 Approach is to Autoland..

eatmyshorts

NewSigGuy wrote: »

I think there is some confusion in the above statement, as far as I understand a CAT 111 approach and landing is by definition an auto land. The intention in CAT 111 conditions is an auto land, there are differences between CAT 111a and CAT 111b but they are still by definition approaches to auto land. In my experience there are no issues with the touchdown and I have never heard from engineering any problems with regards to wear and tear.
Us pilots are the main culprits for the "Firm" arrivals.
There is some difference with regards to CAT 11 approaches as these can be to either a manual landing or an auto land depending on crew preference and approach characteristics.

For a CAT 111 approach there are specific visual requirements and also wind limits, they are requirements, and if the wind is above the limit then the approach can not be flown as your intention on a CAT 111 Approach is to Autoland..

It's all type and company specific. In my company, both CAT II and CAT III approaches must be flown and planned as an autoland. Therfore the autoland wind limitations apply to both approaches.

P. S.... NewSigGuy (ex-EI?) ... From your previous posts I think we might be the same company! If so, take a look at 8.3.0.8.8.3.1

Cessna_Pilot

As said above, a Cat III is by definition a low visibility approach flown to an autoland, or to a go around of course.
Now I do believe on some aircraft types these approaches can be flown by hand, but only if equipped with HUD systems. I am open to correction on this, as the type I fly is not equipped with this.

Crew cannot and would not elect to fly it to a manual landing.

Never heard of engineering having an issue with so called "firm landings" off an autoland either.

To the posters above suggesting otherwise I would advise a quick look over your SOPs and Ops manuals.

I am of course open to correction on al counts

NewSigGuy

eatmyshorts wrote: »

It's all type and company specific. In my company, both CAT II and CAT III approaches must be flown and planned as an autoland. Therfore the autoland wind limitations apply to both approaches.

P. S.... NewSigGuy (ex-EI?) ... From your previous posts I think we might be the same company! If so, take a look at 8.3.0.8.8.3.1

Correct on all fronts..

The next PARA 8.3.0.8.8.3.2 has a very slightly subtle difference for CAT111 appr's

These are company specific, just bear in mind I was speaking generally, and in that case a CAT 11 can be to a manual landing, some aircraft are CAT 11 but do not have auto Land(BAe146). All CAT 111 are to auto land, unless the aircraft has HGS in which case... actually its bloody complicated!!

I will take your advice and stick to our SOP's

eatmyshorts

NewSigGuy wrote: »

Correct on all fronts..

The next PARA 8.3.0.8.8.3.2 has a very slightly subtle difference for CAT111 appr's

... shall.... planned..... flown.... mandatory.... The joys of manuals written by lawyers!!

youknowwho

Senecio wrote: »

As a general rule, how much throttle (%) is used for a standard takeoff? I took off on runway 16 this morning and I definitely felt a greater shove in the back than normal and we had our nose up quick smart with plenty of runway to spare.

Could have been a lighter aircraft -fewer passengers, cargo/luggage, fuel can make a considerable difference.

basill

Like most things in aviation there are the rules at the planning stage and then those once airborne. Whilst a Cat3 is to all intents and purposes to be flown fully "autoland" there is the proviso that if you are visual then you may elect to disconnect and land manually. This circumvents situations such as an autoland warning (on the Airbus) in the cockpit for something like a loc or gs wander and avoids an unnecessary go around.

hidinginthebush

So to paraphrase all the great advice and discussion, poor visibility will result a mandatory auto land landing?

Sorry, I don't know what a "CAT III" is

Growler!!!

hidinginthebush wrote: »

So to paraphrase all the great advice and discussion, poor visibility will result a mandatory auto land landing?

If you have the auto land facility:D

LeftBase

When I answer here I try and state things in simple enough terms for those who are not dealing with the daily abbreviations and technical terms etc.

To clarify the issues raised. We are advised to use autoland for CAT II/III however we have a Decision Height of 100ft(CAT II) or 50ft(CAT III) at which we must be able to make out the significant characteristics of the runway and we are not permitted to fly autoland to touch down. When runway is in sight and at or above 100ft or 50ft(dependent on approach catagory) autoland is disengaged. If at DH we do not have visual reference we go around. If the crosswind is above 20kts and autoland cannot be used we can operate down to 100ft which is the DH for those conditions. Commanders are advised to divert after one failed attempt in this case.

Company will not allow us to operate without a DH.

boeingboy

When runway is in sight and at or above 100ft or 50ft(dependent on approach catagory) autoland is disengaged

From above poster.

Let me tell that's extremely dangerous at 50feet! And illegal. I'd read ure company manuals if ure in one. Take some advice from someone who's been cat 3b qualified for too many years. Have u ever experienced a massive trim towards pitch up at 50 feet. Try it sometime but in the sim

Cessna_Pilot

Again to quote;
"When runway is in sight and at or above 100ft or 50ft(dependent on approach catagory) autoland is disengaged"

When I last in for my recurrent training we had a little time at the end to practice some non prescribed stuff.
I asked could we do a manual disconnect at a rad alt of 50 foot on a cat 3a to mins. The result was not pleasant.

As Boeingboy says there, it is extremely dangerous and a reread out your company's manuals is certainly a priority, perhaps before you go flying again. I personally don't believe that an airline has doing this written into it's SOPs.

NewSigGuy

LeftBase wrote: »

When I answer here I try and state things in simple enough terms for those who are not dealing with the daily abbreviations and technical terms etc.

To clarify the issues raised. We are advised to use autoland for CAT II/III however we have a Decision Height of 100ft(CAT II) or 50ft(CAT III) at which we must be able to make out the significant characteristics of the runway and we are not permitted to fly autoland to touch down. When runway is in sight and at or above 100ft or 50ft(dependent on approach catagory) autoland is disengaged. If at DH we do not have visual reference we go around. If the crosswind is above 20kts and autoland cannot be used we can operate down to 100ft which is the DH for those conditions. Commanders are advised to divert after one failed attempt in this case.

Company will not allow us to operate without a DH.

So does your company stipulate that all CAT 111 approaches are to a manual landing.. Seams a little odd!

ProfessorPlum

In fairness to left base, he did say earlier that CAT3 approaches would normally be to autoland, and I think he was trying to clarify that of course you could disconnect and land manually at anytime if visual references are sufficient.
Wrt disconnecting the AP at low level, he flies an A320, and disconnecting to complete the landing manually is allowed in the event that a failure may make autoland impossible - as Basill said earlier. It's not illegal, and I've never experienced any untoward pitch changes, so it's not dangerous. Maybe the type you guys are on is different.

Rabbitt

Can those Aer Lingus Regional planes take off if they loose an engine/propellor while on takeoff?

Growler!!!

Rabbitt wrote: »

Can those Aer Lingus Regional planes take off if they loose an engine/propellor while on takeoff?

Yes indeed they can. Even if they lose an engine or something is loose:)