The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

maninneed

xflyer wrote: »

Strange one maninneed. You do have to be careful with general career websites. There are often mistakes like that. You also have to be careful with flying school websites. They often paint a very rosy picture of the job prospects. They like to list 'airline partners' as if they'll get you a job in one after you finish. Not only that, they often have lists of companies their graduates got jobs as if they placed them. Generally speaking you'll get minimal help from the flying school.

As for your original question, you could combine the jobs of Dentist and Pilot. One would have to be part time though. If the money is there you can train for both at the same time. The flying when you're attending classes using the modular route. Done right you could be sending out CVs for both disciplines by the time you graduate as a Dentist.

My basketball coach whose friend is a pilot in Ryan Air told me that getting a job is quite hard but he also told me that if I don't try to follow my dream that I might regret it in the future. He also said it might not work out well but i should at least give it a try. And when you say I could combine both jobs I could be a full time pilot and be a part time dentist or even a private practice dentist where I can get to set my own working hours and when you say I can train for both at the same time I don't understand that bit about attending classes using modular route.pls explain somemore

John_Mc

maninneed wrote: »

My basketball coach whose friend is a pilot in Ryan Air told me that getting a job is quite hard but he also told me that if I don't try to follow my dream that I might regret it in the future. He also said it might not work out well but i should at least give it a try. And when you say I could combine both jobs I could be a full time pilot and be a part time dentist or even a private practice dentist where I can get to set my own working hours and when you say I can train for both at the same time I don't understand that bit about attending classes using modular route.pls explain somemore

"It might not work out well, but give it a try..." It's only about €80,000 minimum just to get your ATPL :rolleyes:

Modular means breaking the training into smaller parts and doing them in different places at different times. It is cheaper than the integrated route.

Integrated means doing the training all in one go, and generally takes about a year. It's usually €80k-€100k depending on where you do it.

Both should result in you have a frozen ATPL licence but then you need a type rating which is a certification to fly a particular type of airplane.

If you can get a job with Ryanair, you pay them about €40k and they hire you, give you a type rating on the 737-800 and you get some hours "flying the line".

There are no guarantees that you can even get a job though, so it's a huge gamble. You could buy a house for the money you risk on training to be a pilot so it's not something "you might as well try".

A close friend got all the way to line training with Aer Lingus flying A320s. The economy turned upside down and she's now €110k in the red and on the dole. So beware.

xflyer

Ah, I left out the word not: Thus

The flying when you're NOT attending (dentistry) classes using the modular route.

Sorry. I meant you can learn to fly on your college holidays or days off.

There are times when you have to dedicate time to the flying side. It's tough going but many people do it holding down full time jobs with families so it's doable.

Equally you could take your time and just aim for a PPL and building some hours while in Dental College and then finish up the flying after graduation. Whatever suits. Remember that age limit is nonsense.

maninneed

thanks both xflyer and John_Mc.

If the both of you are pilots could you please describe a typical routine of your day?

I hear you John_Mc it is a big risk but life is full of risk my business teacher once said "to do well in a business you have to take risks" and I am guessing the same goes for reality but I need to know your opinions if you think the risk is worth taking or not. I mean having an office in a cockpit isn't exactly the kinda job everyone has.

Mboy

This might be interesting to those interested in this thread:

http://blog.aopa.org/flighttraining/?p=775&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-number-two-radio&WT.mc_id=120224eflight&WT.mc_sect=blog

RobAMerc

hi all, could someone explain to me exactly why colour blindness means absolutely no chance of ever having any sort of pilots license.

Isn't it possible to tell the direction of aircraft by the sequence of the navigation lights?

Also, on model aircraft I have flown, it is necessary to input some up elevator when inputting some aileron deflection - do commercial aircraft do similar, is it automatically handled by the aircraft or are the bank angles not sufficient to warrant any input?

thanks
rob

Bearcat

Rob, colour blindness is a big no no. Think about it. Modern day cockpits operate very much on the green/amber/red levels of warnings......it'd be an awful shame for the punters that the driver up front couldn't differentiate these colours. Night flying is critical re colours. Google vasi's and papi's......

stopthepanic

RobAMerc wrote: »

Isn't it possible to tell the direction of aircraft by the sequence of the navigation lights?

If you could make out 2 lights ahead of you but could not define the colours, how could you tell if they were coming at you or going in the same direction as you?

Runway lights are also coloured to give representation of position on the runway as well. Though I'd imagine Bearcats reason would be one of the main ones.

xflyer

There's colour blindness and there's colour blindness. Apparently the CAA has a more modern test which would allow certain people to pass who previously didn't. Not sure if the IAA uses it yet. Also the FAA has a more liberal interpretation than in Europe. It was discussed on PPRuNe I seem to remember.


As for the use of up elevator in bank. This is a straightforward 'effects of controls' scenario and applies to all aeroplanes.

Essentially in straight and level flight, at a particular angle of attack, lift equals weight and is balanced. Generally lift is represented as vertical or perpendicular to the wings. Add aileron and the aeroplane banks but now the lift component is split between the vertical and horizontal. This causes a loss of vertical lift, uncorrected this would produces a descent.

So up elevator is used to increase the angle of attack, this increases vertical lift and the aircraft maintains altitude. Of course use of elevator increases drag which slows the aircraft in the bank.

A drawing would make it a lot clearer. But that's it in a nutshell. Often the difference is very slight particularly in light aircraft and a common mistake for student pilot is to overcorrect and induce a climb in the turn. The steeper the bank the greater the input of elevator.

Bearcat

theres a link out there somewhere, where you can download the jaa medical standards for a class 1 medical....this is the bench mark that authorities are guided by??

tricky D

xflyer wrote: »

There's colour blindness and there's colour blindness. Apparently the CAA has a more modern test which would allow certain people to pass who previously didn't.

There's a few different types. The most common only mean that colours are perceived slightly differently eg. might perceive 20% less in the blue/green components. This doesn't cause problems in a cockpit but does lead to difficulty when trying to discern nav lights at distance with little reference colours nearby. This could mean being unable to tell port from starboard lights, however I seem to manage Ok but probably could be better. Hard to tell as it's largely subjective.

The rarer types would involve not being able to see any of one of the Red/Green/Blue components, probably in the 1 in 10000s.

It's extremely rare to have no colours at all, just black and white.

xflyer

There's an ongoing thread on PPRuNe. Lots of info there.

http://www.pprune.org/medical-health/398330-collective-colour-vision-thread-3-a.html

Bearcat

all I know is it doesnt pass from one generation to the other.(in my case)....my auld man was colour blind to the point of not being able to distinguish colours at traffic lights. He knew top was stop, bottom go.....that exterem would deffo preclude one from getting a ppl.

http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/606984.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED_JAR_C2_Initial_Visual_Stds%28March2011%29.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED_JAR_C1_Initial_Visual_Stds%28December2010%29.pdf

RobAMerc

thanks lads. I already knew it was a no no. I would not have an issue in the cockpit being well capable to telling my reds from greens etc, but at a distance I certainly would. I was of the opinion that there maybe a system where the port flashed before the starboard in order to tell which side was which etc. ( although now that I think of it the wing nav lights don't flash at all do they ?)

thanks for the info re elevator while banking, makes sense really, I was just kinda curious as to whether the plane handled it or if the plane lost enough lift at all due to such slight angles in commercial airliners making it unnecessary.

thanks again all.
rob

Irish Steve

RobAMerc wrote: »

I was of the opinion that there maybe a system where the port flashed before the starboard in order to tell which side was which etc. ( although now that I think of it the wing nav lights don't flash at all do they ?)

Rob, that's correct, the wing tip lights are on or off, but to add confusion, there's usually one or more red flashing beacons somewhere on the aircraft, in addition to the white strobe lights that are increasingly common now.

the stupid aspect of all of this is that the vast majority of the time, commercial flying is done in IFR conditions, and separation between you and other aircraft is the responsibility of Air traffic control, if you can see another aircraft and its lights, there's a good chance that another piece of modern technology called TCAS will very soon start shouting very loud about taking avoiding action, assuming that you're not flying in cloud in the first place.

For sure, colour blindness is an issue on the flight deck, as has been mentioned, modern aircraft use a dark cockpit concept, if everything is happy, there's very few lights of any colour, but if something is abnormal, then lights start appearing, and will be different colours depending on the severity of the warning, and in the same way, modern navigation and flight instrument displays make significant use of colour for warnings, cautions and serious urgent matters that need attention NOW!.

For a long time, there was only one form of colour blindness test that excluded some people that were not truly colour blind, but were confused by the charts that were used. There are now alternative tests that are more selective, and if you can pass them, even though you fail the "normal" test, you will effectively pass. The problem is that the rules keep changing, and getting a definitive statement of what is or is not acceptable in many areas is becoming increasingly difficult.

johnc24

Hi everyone

Glad I found this thread.

I have posted on a couple of forums recently but not really getting any decent feedback.


I am 29, now I was diagnosed with perthes disease when I was 6, I got discharged at 14 and it has never really come against me. I can drive without issue. I can run as well but it will generate a little inflammation around the hip joint. In adults I believe it is osteo athritis. I have tried rudder pedals and can control them fine but I wonder how the CAA / IAA would view this.

I also had what is called a tenotomy - which is a surgical act which involves the division of a tendon.

Does anyone have any advice regarding these issues? Should I get in touch with the IAA and make some enquiries or are you in the camp of "do not mention it"?

Thanks everyone and well done on such a good thread idea.

Dogwatch

johnc24 wrote: »

Hi everyone

Glad I found this thread.

I have posted on a couple of forums recently but not really getting any decent feedback.


I am 29, now I was diagnosed with perthes disease when I was 6, I got discharged at 14 and it has never really come against me. I can drive without issue. I can run as well but it will generate a little inflammation around the hip joint. In adults I believe it is osteo athritis. I have tried rudder pedals and can control them fine but I wonder how the CAA / IAA would view this.

I also had what is called a tenotomy - which is a surgical act which involves the division of a tendon.

Does anyone have any advice regarding these issues? Should I get in touch with the IAA and make some enquiries or are you in the camp of "do not mention it"?

Thanks everyone and well done on such a good thread idea.

Why hide something that could bite you later. Find out before you start if you will pass the medical. Hiding it only puts you at risk later on should you seceed at becoming ATPL.
Ring them and ask. honesty is the only policy.

BostonB

Perthes should cause you no more issues than someone with arthritis. I can't imagine there would be any issue for a licence. Even if you have arthritis, it shouldn't be a problem unless it got chronic. I would expect that no one you will talk to will have heard of Perthes. I never have, I only know about it because someone in the family has it.

xflyer

Don't know anything about the subject. So you'll really have to contact the IAA.

The real issue with problems like that is the long term prognosis. Will it get worse over the years? What about the end of a long day of flying. What about a month of long days? You mention exercise bringing on inflammation. How does that affect your movement?

That's the main issues they will look at I think. You're fine now but what about when you're forty?

BostonB

Perthes can lead to Arthritis. Arthritis can lead to an early hip replacement. Of course it might not ever get that bad. Does a first class physical fail people with Arthritis?

I couldn't find an answer. Nearest I got was this

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item43/amd/arthritis/

You have to ask IAA as suggested.

Chuck Stone

I had a quick look at a flight tracker website last night and the was an El Al flight coming over Shannon Airport from New York to Tel Aviv.

Q. How come it doesn't just go straight across the Atlantic?

tricky D

Straight on a 2D map and the shortest distance around the Earth's 3D curvature are not the same so they take a Great Circle route.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle

globemaster1986

Check out the Great Circle route here

Chuck Stone

Yeah, I was thinking in 2d. I thought it might have been to do with security or the jet stream or something.

Thanks lads.

globemaster1986

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Yeah, I was thinking in 2d. I thought it might have been to do with security or the jet stream or something.

Thanks lads.

Jetstreams and weather systems can have a significant affect on the route an aircraft will take, also ETOPS rules if it is a twin engine aircraft.

johnc24

Hi folks

Only finding the time to reply now. Thanks for all your input.

I have emailed the CAA as I was planning on getting the CAA JAR class 1.

Apparently they cannot discuss medical matters over email, I will give them a call tomorrow to speak to an Aeromedical Advisor who should be able to help.

I will update the post as to what information I get in case anyone else might benefit from it.

Thanks again for your help folks.

J

RobAMerc

Irish Steve wrote: »

For a long time, there was only one form of colour blindness test that excluded some people that were not truly colour blind, but were confused by the charts that were used. There are now alternative tests that are more selective, and if you can pass them, even though you fail the "normal" test, you will effectively pass. The problem is that the rules keep changing, and getting a definitive statement of what is or is not acceptable in many areas is becoming increasingly difficult.

That's great news thanks -I must look up the name of these, it's been a long time since I was tested and I've always been well able to tell the difference between most colours even at a distance so I would love a go at it.
You've made my day, thanks !

Fluorescence

This has been a very interesting thread! It popped up on the boards homepage yesterday morning and I've read through it all. It's quite fascinating

The discussion in the last page or so about colour blindness now has me curious. I always assumed I wouldn't be eligible to become a pilot as my colour vision is slightly off - I have more red in one eye than the other, which isn't all that noticeable to me unless I'm comparing how something looks with one eye closed versus the other eye closed. Now I'm wondering if I should actually get it tested :P
Mind you, I've already changed my college course once after 2 years of a degree I didn't like, so maybe I should stick this one out this time :pac:. I'm all set to graduate when I'm 24 (in 3.5 years time...)

Anyway, a question for the pilots:
How much does the sim feel like an actual plane? I ask because in an episode of Mythbusters (bear with me here :P) they tested the myth that in the event that all the crew were incapacitated in an emergency, a passenger could land the plane relatively successfully with help from a radio. The results were... not entirely successful but better than you might imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWjDpwxX0n4

johnc24

XWB wrote: »

Best formula to remember is Work = the size of the a/c is directly proportional to the the weight and volume of the paperwork divided by the mental agility of the FO and coffee drinking skills of the Captain!

I too read your posts with great interest.

So far I must say I enjoy your above quote. You gotta laugh haven't you!

Look forward to reading the the rest of your posts along with all the others.

By the by I too am a wannabe pilot, my plan recently was to go and get a class 1 exam done, however I had perthes (hip problem through inflammation) when I was younger. I have full motion around the hip and can drive and run. I appreciate times may have changed since your initial medical but do you know if that would be an immediate fail or did you ever fly with any other pilots who had minor athritis controlled using NSAID (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs).

Thanks

All the best

J

xflyer

XWB doesn't post here anymore, John. But who knows maybe he'll make an exception. I doubt if he could add much to what already been said in the other posts.

Fluorescence, I don't fly sims much. But those I have are pretty realistic. The modern ones used by the airlines are specifically designed to 'fly' like the real thing.

Even the fixed base sims with rudimentary visuals can be good. These are essentially procedures trainers but they can be pretty compelling. I was sweating gallons after an hour in one.

You should try one yourself. Simtech, Eirsim, one in Shannon and a 747 in Bray I think?