The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

California Dreamer

jordanfaf wrote: »

I’m looking to transfer career paths from my current. And have always had an interest in becoming a pilot.
I’ve done a few single prop lessons in Weston but nothing past that so far.

A few other things to consider right now.

1. Look at the amount of airlines that have grounded 90& of their fleet and retired older types. Capacity will be greatly reduced for the next number of years.

2. Look at the amount of current working qualified pilots who are being furloughed.

3. Look at the guys and girls from the likes of WOW, Thomas Cook, FlyBe, Monarch, and so many others who are still looking for jobs

4. Look at the students that are already in the middle of their 18 month training.

5. If you do decide to do the training, you should have eyes very wide open. If and right now its a very big IF you get a job, its most likely to be someone big like Ryanair. There you are just a number. Pros and cons to working for them but thats not for this thread. Be prepared to be based anywhere in Europe with zero notice. So you need funds for that.

6. Speaking of funds, your training will be €80k, plus living expenses. Prepare for not getting a job for 1-2 years so have the ability to support yourself in that time.

7. Get your Class 1 medical before you invest 1 red cent into this career change.

I had the same idea. Failed medical! Stuck in chosen career!!!

Good Luck!!!

sysprogrammer

I'm not to sure I'd agree with all the sentiments above.
Yes there will be an excess of qualified pilots after some airlines shutter, but there has always been ebbs and flows.

With the time taken to reach atpl the entire landscape will have changed.

that is if the OP wants to get to that level. There are many commercial jobs without full atpl.

As for the cost, well I went the modular route ,and I worked part-time at my training school (In Oz) . Anything to get the cost down !

There is a lot to be gained by achieving your PPL (private licence) and this may give you a better idea of flying itself, it may even put you off !

propeller and glider aircraft will give you a great introduction for little cost.

I hope this helps, don't be put off by anyone or anything.
And if you are any good at boiling a kettle, you could do worse than visiting some of the smaller airfields and chat to people in the cafe, there are many old duffers (myself) willing to give you a steer. EINC I'd recommend.
See you there,
Sys

(Tenger, I hope this post is on track, this is the route I took.)

Dingle_berry

sysprogrammer wrote: »

that is if the OP wants to get to that level. There are many commercial jobs without full atpl.

Could you give a few examples of the commercial non-Atpl jobs?

Helicopter piloting is another option, if you have the “touch” for it. Very expensive to learn. I took two lessons in latter years after having some light single fixed wing experience. Found I quickly had the feel for it, but alas not the pocket nor health. Good to give it a try, very satisfactory when you find yourself doing it well, although I’m sure beginners’ luck was in my side.

sysprogrammer

Dingle_berry wrote: »

Could you give a few examples of the commercial non-Atpl jobs?

Off the top of my head :
Flying Instructor, Ferry Pilot , Survey ops , Safety pilot , Maintenance testing , and I'm sure I'll think of more, I'm on my first coffee after a bank holiday ;-)

hth

Astral Nav

sysprogrammer wrote: »

Off the top of my head :
Flying Instructor, Ferry Pilot , Survey ops , Safety pilot , Maintenance testing , and I'm sure I'll think of more, I'm on my first coffee after a bank holiday ;-)

hth

Excepting the first job there are almost none of these in Ireland. Sadly instructing doesn't pay very much either although it can be enjoyable. Very view ways to make a decent amount without an ATPL and there's going to be a lot of unemployed ATPL holders for a while.

sysprogrammer

Astral Nav wrote: »

Excepting the first job there are almost none of these in Ireland. Sadly instructing doesn't pay very much either although it can be enjoyable. Very view ways to make a decent amount without an ATPL and there's going to be a lot of unemployed ATPL holders for a while.

Would have to check the instructors hourly rate before commenting, it has been a long while....

I don't know of many pilots who get to operate from their homebase , in fact I'd say it is a given that one has to travel as a pilot ;-) (I do take your point though )

And I'd would say that all of those jobs exist, certainly safety pilot for Sunday fliers in Ireland.
ferry work routes through Stornoway in Scotland, Survey is via the English companies with the fitted out 310's.

the main point to get across ,is that no one should hold off on their training based on a few internet posts.

it costs 10k to get your private licence here, which is attainable for a lot of people. so I really think spending 10 or more hours flying (€2500) will give you the best insight into a future career.

Do not be put off by others, per aspera ad astra.

smurfjed

the main point to get across ,is that no one should hold off on their training based on a few internet posts.

So true, sure why would you bother listening to actual pilots who earn their living flying about the state of their industry, much better listening to a flying school salesman who will tell you that the world needs millions of pilots right now

If you can find ONE pilot who hasn’t had his/her life and career impacted by COVID, please let me know.

California Dreamer

Deleted User wrote: »

Helicopter piloting is another option, if you have the “touch” for it. Very expensive to learn. I took two lessons in latter years after having some light single fixed wing experience. Found I quickly had the feel for it, but alas not the pocket nor health. Good to give it a try, very satisfactory when you find yourself doing it well, although I’m sure beginners’ luck was in my side.

Got my PPL(H) in 2010. Very expensive and I went to the UK to do it.

Haven't flown in a heli since. Far too expensive here and jobs are even fewer.

sysprogrammer

smurfjed wrote: »

So true, sure why would you bother listening to actual pilots who earn their living flying about the state of their industry, much better listening to a flying school salesman who will tell you that the world needs millions of pilots right now

If you can find ONE pilot who hasn’t had his/her life and career impacted by COVID, please let me know.

Should we all wait around for your 'go ahead' ? to start years of training.

flying school salesman..... yeah I'm just not to going to bite.

Quote: "If you can find ONE pilot who hasn’t had his/her life and career impacted by COVID, please let me know." -smart answer is Cargo, but really, is this relevant ???

I feel like you're out for an argument. the current pandemic is of course awful , I know as I work directly in healthcare.

I do actually enjoy being corrected as it usually saves me from a mistake, it is just I do not see why people are being advised against training , when training is a multi-year event , and getting some real world flying is far better than you or I pontificating on the internet.


caveat: all of this is of course just my opinion.

California Dreamer

sysprogrammer wrote: »

I do actually enjoy being corrected as it usually saves me from a mistake, it is just I do not see why people are being advised against training , when training is a multi-year event , and getting some real world flying is far better than you or I pontificating on the internet.


caveat: all of this is of course just my opinion.

For sure, there are lots of opinions out there and is anyone actually correct?

The only thing I say about training is that you do not walk out of flying school with your shiny new wings and into a job.

Maybe that first job will be with the likes of Ryanair on a shiny new 737, then again maybe it will be doing night mail flights on a Saab 340!

My point, and its one of several is that do not expect to walk into a great first job. Always have a back up and after you have spent 80k on training and more to live, you need to be able to support yourself for 2, maybe even 3 years before you get a job.

Annnnnnnnnd, if you are one of the x amount of new qualified pilots in the jobs market make sure your flying record is spotless and top marks in everything because all it takes is one black mark to have your CV put to the bottom of the pile when you are competing with 500 others guys looking for the job.

Alicano

Hello Pilot people
First time caller here. I've a slightly odd question and hope some of you here may be able to contribute some info or direct me towards the relevant place for it.
My partner and I are looking at buying a home in a new development in Portmarnock. Out of all the different concerns one has when making such a big decision, the biggest concern (especially for my partner) is the flight path and noise impacts for future children.
I work in the industry and am all too familiar with that sweet sound
But on 2 recent visits we experienced 2 approaches and the aircraft were low and it was loud. We know we'd adjust to it in time. But our concern is of a child playing out the back for a few hours. If this was a typical summer. June bank holiday 2019 for Dublin had 2890 movements over the weekend. That is a lot of aircraft. This area is beside Portmarnock train station. How low would you be on approach there or after take-off roughly? Power output at those times?
Under new guidelines a creche isn't permitted for this development due to noise exposure.
Sorry for long post. Hope I'm being clear with my question and our concern?
Houses are solid and all other bits are workable. This however is a block for us.
Many thanks for reading and any responses.

flyguy

The positives are aircraft will keep getting quieter.
Hard to say what thrust/power will be there. Depends a bit on the company approach profile, but on approach probably 60% or less. On departure a lot more (85-100%) but the aircraft would be a lot higher as they climb much better than the normal approach angle.
It’s going to take while (maybe 2 years) for the volume of traffic to get back to normal.
I’m not sure on this but with the future layout of the airport (2nd runway open) I would image the current RWY will be used only for landings in a west config and only takeoffs in an east config (at least that would make sense looking at the airport lay-out, it being Ireland they’ll probably do something else).
If that prediction is true that area could have 3 times more landing traffic than now as there is no need for a gap between aircraft to allow take offs. For East departures similar story, it would allow for a lot more traffic overflying that area...
Above assumes a certain rwy use that others might know more about.

flyguy

Some more info here:

https://www.dublinairport.com/corporate/north-runway/about/frequently-asked-questions

Where you’ll find these statements that might affect you:

Option 7B is a preferred runway concept, which was agreed as part of the 2007 runway planning permission to lessen the impact of aircraft noise on local communities.

Mode of operation 7B provides that:

the parallel runways - 10R-28L (existing main runway) and 10L-28R (North Runway) - shall be used in preference to the cross runway, 16-34;
In westerly operations, when winds are westerly, approximately 70% of the time, Runway 28L shall be preferred for arriving aircraft; either Runway 28L or 28R shall be used for departing aircraft as determined by air traffic control.
In easterly operations, when winds are easterly, approximately 30% of the time, either Runway 10L or 10R as determined by air traffic control shall be preferred for arriving aircraft. Runway 10R shall be preferred for departing aircraft.

And:

Most of the time the two runways at Dublin Airport will be operated in segregated mode, i.e. one runway for all arrivals, the other for all departures. However, there will be occasions during peak hours when runways will need to operate in mixed mode, i.e. both runways used simultaneously for arrivals and departures. For safety and aircraft separation reasons, international standards for mixed mode operations require that aircraft courses diverge by at least 15°, approximately one nautical mile after take-off.

During the 2016 daa Consultation on Flight Paths and Change to Permitted Operations, feedback was received from the public which indicated that there is a preference for the scenario which involves: 'Straight out on south runway; split divergence of 15° and 75° on departures for North Runway depending on ultimate destination of the aircraft'. This preferred option has been shared with the IAA-ANSP (Air Navigation Service Provider), which has overall responsibility for airspace design.

Before any proposed flight path procedure and/or mode of operation can be finalised and implemented for North Runway, a comprehensive safety case and assessment will have to be completed by the IAA-ANSP which will occur before the opening of North Runway. More information on the outcome of our Public Consultations can be found here.


So as I said, when the new runway opens they’ll use the existing runway mainly for arrivals in west config and this would allow a lot more movements then are currently the case, so that could mean an aircraft coming over every 2/3min.
In East config they’ll mainly use the existing runway for departures again creating more traffic over that area.

I don’t blame DUB airport for this though, it makes sense and is most efficient. The government shouldn’t allow new builds in that area. It doesn’t make sense to give permits. Personally I wouldn’t buy a house there unless it’s cheaper than other areas and has good sound proofing/triple glazing & mechanical ventilation so you can keep your windows&vents closed...

Alicano

Many many thanks Flyguy. That is a great piece of info for us to digest and look further into. I really appreciate the time you've taken to respond to my query. Cheers.

1123heavy

All this research may seem beneficial, but at the end of the day you are within 6 miles of the airport, it must be accepted that whatever runway configuration, the airport is going nowhere and there will inevitably be noise. On those late summer nights when the aircraft are arriving in all the way up to 3am on runway 28, with 0 surrounding noise pollution they will be heard very loud.

Perhaps further north towards Skerries or the Swords region would be better? Just trying to think practically

lambayire

I have some buddies who live right beside the train station in Portmarnock.

They say that you just get used to the noise.

I did attend a BBQ a while back and conversation was pretty much halted every 2 minutes or so.
I do miss the planes coming in/out every 2 minutes!!

Alicano

1123heavy wrote: »

All this research may seem beneficial, but at the end of the day you are within 6 miles of the airport, it must be accepted that whatever runway configuration, the airport is going nowhere and there will inevitably be noise. On those late summer nights when the aircraft are arriving in all the way up to 3am on runway 28, with 0 surrounding noise pollution they will be heard very loud.

Perhaps further north towards Skerries or the Swords region would be better? Just trying to think practically

yep. We understand the above. More concerned about lil kid playing out back and any potential damage to them. Especially as no creche permitted. We are gonna skip this one. Lovely house. But as you guys know. All too noisy and all to frequent (albeit not right now). Thank you for the reply.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Alicano, I don't live in that estate but I'm close by (although I'm not living directly under the approach flight path.

I'm also either walking the dogs, running or swimming on the beach (south beach), honestly aircraft noise wouldn't be an issue for me, and certainly not a deciding factor in making a decision on buying in Portmarnock. Of greater concern for me is the growing vehicular traffic problems we're having in the area, which gets far worse on sunny days. I dread to think of the congestion in the area in a few years.

Back to your concerns, I'd go and spend time in the estate and possibly talk to residents there regarding your concerns, I'm sure your mind would be put at ease.

Alicano

Colby Tiny Cello wrote: »

Alicano, I don't live in that estate but I'm close by (although I'm not living directly under the approach flight path.

I'm also either walking the dogs, running or swimming on the beach (south beach), honestly aircraft noise wouldn't be an issue for me, and certainly not a deciding factor in making a decision on buying in Portmarnock. Of greater concern for me is the growing vehicular traffic problems we're having in the area, which gets far worse on sunny days. I dread to think of the congestion in the area in a few years.

Back to your concerns, I'd go and spend time in the estate and possibly talk to residents there regarding your concerns, I'm sure your mind would be put at ease.

Thank you Colby Tiny Cello This house is literally right under the flightpath that's the concern. We may wait for future phase and see how it goes. Portmarnock is lovely. Sth beach is fab too! But yes the traffic is dire on sunny weekends. Thankfully I run and cycle. Our concern is mainly about a lil human and their hearing. We'll visit the place a bit more. And we're not in a huge rush to buy this exact house so that helps. Thank you for taking time to respond

California Dreamer

Alicano wrote: »

This house is literally right under the flightpath that's the concern.

If this of slight concern now, would it not be safe to assume that in the years to come the 'problem' just gets worse?

You are raising a major red flag to what will be your biggest purchase in your life. Why would you settle for what it might become?

Alicano

California Dreamer wrote: »

If this of slight concern now, would it not be safe to assume that in the years to come the 'problem' just gets worse?

You are raising a major red flag to what will be your biggest purchase in your life. Why would you settle for what it might become?

Hi CD. We're no longer considering the area. Thanks for the advice.

sysprogrammer

smurfjed wrote: »

So true, sure why would you bother listening to actual pilots who earn their living flying about the state of their industry, much better listening to a flying school salesman who will tell you that the world needs millions of pilots right now

If you can find ONE pilot who hasn’t had his/her life and career impacted by COVID, please let me know.

well, Did Michael O'Leary ring ya for your advice before resuming operations?

On a serious note though , have you noticed any effect on being away from regular flying ?

I can forget my login password after a week off work.

smurfjed

the main point to get across ,is that no one should hold off on their training based on a few internet posts.

smurfjed wrote: »

So true, sure why would you bother listening to actual pilots who earn their living flying about the state of their industry, much better listening to a flying school salesman who will tell you that the world needs millions of pilots right now

If you can find ONE pilot who hasn’t had his/her life and career impacted by COVID, please let me know.

If you are going to quote a post, its always polite to quote the whole quote so that people can see the context that it was written in. Now two months after that post, look around at what’s happening to pilots around the world, is it really a time that you want to go and invest 100,000?

And what makes you think that I have stopped flying during any of this?

L1011

You can use the arrow on the quoted post to see the entire original post; if quoted using the correct format.

smurfjed

You mean the question box with the arrow pointing forwards?

Thanks :)

Dean91

Hi I need to make a career change, I have always been interested in becoming a pilot, I'm not going to say its dream as my dream would be to win the lotto and just not have to work lol . I can't go to college for 4 years to get a degree.

I want something I will enjoy for the 30 years and my salary would actually be worth it . In my late 20s currently saving for a mortgage but obviously will be put back if I go down this route. I just know if I get a mortgage there is no hope of been able to do this and I'm not going to just get a mortgage because everyone my age is jumping on the bandwagon, most people I know hate there jobs or are stuck with it as have a kid.

Big question would be how hard would it be getting into the job after flight school .
I am prepared to go back to my job of 30k after training and keep working there until get in .

If I missed anything let me know, thanks in advance.

1123heavy

Dean91 wrote: »

Hi I need to make a career change, I have always been interested in becoming a pilot, I'm not going to say its dream as my dream would be to win the lotto and just not have to work lol . I can't go to college for 4 years to get a degree.

I want something I will enjoy for the 30 years and my salary would actually be worth it . In my late 20s currently saving for a mortgage but obviously will be put back if I go down this route. I just know if I get a mortgage there is no hope of been able to do this and I'm not going to just get a mortgage because everyone my age is jumping on the bandwagon, most people I know hate there jobs or are stuck with it as have a kid.

Big question would be how hard would it be getting into the job after flight school .
I am prepared to go back to my job of 30k after training and keep working there until get in .

If I missed anything let me know, thanks in advance.

My advice would be to walk away, as cold as that sounds.

If you feel your life will genuinely not be the same without fulfilling this dream then go for it, but prepare yourself emotionally and financially to put an awful lot into it for potentially no return. Especially in this post COVID world, we have no idea when the industry will improve to a level where regular experienced hiring recommences, never mind low hour hiring (usually the sign of peak industry performance). By then you will likely be well into your 30's, I don't know what your home life is like with a wife etc but it goes without saying to take that pressure into account too.

Is it possible for you to still become a pilot? I would say yes (but i wouldn't start training now), I'd look at going modular and pacing it out over a few years, maybe get a crack on with the ground school if you have time to manage it with full time work.

Is it worth it for you to become a pilot? That depends entirely on how much you want it. There are lots of moany people in the game and who spend all day telling their colleague beside them about how they would have made a great barrister, company director etc etc and how our job is **** in comparison - these are the people who never asked themselves did they genuinely love flying as much as they thought they did, because when everything else is going wrong it's all you'll have to hold onto. I don't mean that to sound dramatic, but just don't get involved unless you can really see yourself loving the job because there's no way back once the big bucks are spent.

Muahahaha

This is a bit leftfield but that Ryanair plane the other day that had a bomb threat was escorted by a couple of fighter jets in Norway. Article said "The captain followed procedures and continued to Oslo airport where the plane landed safely". Whats the procedures here? How did the Norwegian air force ascertain it was a hoax and what happens if they thought it was credible?

1123heavy

Muahahaha wrote: »

This is a bit leftfield but that Ryanair plane the other day that had a bomb threat was escorted by a couple of fighter jets in Norway. Article said "The captain followed procedures and continued to Oslo airport where the plane landed safely". Whats the procedures here? How did the Norwegian air force ascertain it was a hoax and what happens if they thought it was credible?

There are emergency procedures published for 'bomb on board', part of it includes trying to descend to reduce the cabin pressure differential (reduces the destruction were a bomb to go off), if you identify a bag or rucksack that allegedly has a bomb in it then you try to hang it to a door or cover it with other items. After landing you'll proceed to a remote stand far from the terminal building.