Depression/Mental Health

Miss Olenska

SugarHigh wrote: »

It sounds bad to call depressed people self centred but they are. I think being depressed makes you self centred and also being self centred feeds back into your depression.

Yes, they are self-centred but having been there, it's hard not to be and I would have done anything to not be self-centred but you just can't help it.

LegacyUser

Part of the problem is also how health services are structured and organised, some of which are 9-5, which on the one hand is understandable, on the other, is a bit ridiculous.

py2006

stupidusername wrote: »

I'm waiting on talk therapy for more than 4 months now, so what do you suggest I do in the mean time? Why is it too much to expect that friends are there to talk to? I mean, is that not what friends are for?

If they are friends, it won't be too much for them to listen to you. Those that don't have the time to listen are not real friends.

Some people with depression can hide it well from their colleagues or friends. So these people might be completely unaware of somebodies condition. As they old saying goes, 'talk'! (not easy but try)

irishh_bob

SugarHigh wrote: »

It sounds bad to call depressed people self centred but they are. I think being depressed makes you self centred and also being self centred feeds back into your depression.

depression makes you very self indulgent but you have to remember , depression is all about looking inward , nowadays people are encouraged to look inward , like thinking , i see this as a very bad thing , thinking too much or being too self aware is very dangerous

py2006

Some of the symptoms that I don't think a lot of people are aware of are:

Extreme Fatigue

This is very different to the kind of tiredness you feel from a long days work or from a heavy work out.

• Waking up in the morning feeling just as tired as you did going to bed.
• Struggling to get the engery/motivation to get out of the bed.
• Strugging to get the energy/motivation to leave the house (even for simple things like heading to the shops.)
• Not only are your eyes tired, but your legs and your mind.
• This leaves them unable to travel, to communicate with others and to stay indoors isoloted.

Inability to absorb information

Concentration and the ability to focus on the smallest of tasks is extremely difficult.

• Most people absorb information on a daily basis and learn. However, with depression this ability is extremely reduced.
• Concentration on a book/movie is difficult as you don't have the ability to enjoy these things so remembering facts, characters and plot lines etc are gone.
• People assume you are stupid because you can't do or know how to do some of the simplist things.
• Remebering deadlines for important things is difficult. This is part of the extreme procastination. Simple tasks like filling out forms, making appointments etc.

Issues with diet

Extreme stress and Anxiety are part and parcel of depression. This can cause stomach discomfort and can often slow down metabolism.

• Some depressed people gain a lot of weight either from lack of exercise or a reliant on junk food.
• As some isolate themselves in their bedroom for hours/days on end they are sitting in the one place and probably eating more than usual. This only makes the fatigue issue worse.
• Some loose weight as they have a loss of appetite or poor self image.

Extreme low self exteem and confidence

A lot of people are aware of poor self confidence being a issue for depressed people:

• Some are so low in confidence that they can't talk to people. I mean like actually hearing their on voice and stringing a sentence together.
• I recall an individual who struggled to sign his name as his confidence was so low. He was confident in his ability to write when somebody was watching.
• Feeling so low about your physical image that you don't leave the house.
• Confident people take pride in their appearance and its reflects in their body language, they have a fresh bright face with wide eyes and a good ability to communicate. People who are depressed looked contantly fatigued, pale skin and bages under the eyes. They don't have that fresh and confident look about them. (although some have the ability to turn on the style in the work place etc)

When you take all of the above into account, what it does is to completely drain the life and sole out of a persons life. Its an extraordinary hard thing to come out of, especially on your own.

The ability to enjoy the simple things in life is erradicated. Reading a book, going for a walk, watching a movie or chatting to friends. There is no enjoyment in this whatsoever. Nothing brings a smile to your face, not even your family and closest friends.

If you know somebody who is suffereing from depression, try and understand and try and talk to them if you can.

Anyway, I am sure there are more that I can't think of right now but I thought I would share my thoughts here.

irishh_bob

py2006 wrote: »

Some of the symptoms that I don't think a lot of people are aware of are:

Extreme Fatigue


This is very different to the kind of tiredness you feel from a long days work or from a heavy work out.

• Waking up in the morning feeling just as tired as you did going to bed.
• Struggling to get the engery/motivation to get out of the bed.
• Strugging to get the energy/motivation to leave the house (even for simple things like heading to the shops.)
• Not only are your eyes tired, but your legs and your mind.
• This leaves them unable to travel, to communicate with others and to stay indoors isoloted.

Inability to absorb information


Concentration and the ability to focus on the smallest of tasks is extremely difficult.

• Most people absorb information on a daily basis and learn. However, with depression this ability is extremely reduced.
• Concentration on a book/movie is difficult as you don't have the ability to enjoy these things so remembering facts, characters and plot lines etc are gone.
• People assume you are stupid because you can't do or know how to do some of the simplist things.
• Remebering deadlines for important things is difficult. This is part of the extreme procastination. Simple tasks like filling out forms, making appointments etc.

Issues with diet


Extreme stress and Anxiety are part and parcel of depression. This can cause stomach discomfort and can often slow down metabolism.

• Some depressed people gain a lot of weight either from lack of exercise or a reliant on junk food.
• As some isolate themselves in their bedroom for hours/days on end they are sitting in the one place and probably eating more than usual. This only makes the fatigue issue worse.
• Some loose weight as they have a loss of appetite or poor self image.

Extreme low self exteem and confidence


A lot of people are aware of poor self confidence being a issue for depressed people:

• Some are so low in confidence that they can't talk to people. I mean like actually hearing their on voice and stringing a sentence together.
• I recall an individual who struggled to sign his name as his confidence was so low. He was confident in his ability to write when somebody was watching.
• Feeling so low about your physical image that you don't leave the house.
• Confident people take pride in their appearance and its reflects in their body language, they have a fresh bright face with wide eyes and a good ability to communicate. People who are depressed looked contantly fatigued, pale skin and bages under the eyes. They don't have that fresh and confident look about them. (although some have the ability to turn on the style in the work place etc)

When you take all of the above into account, what it does is to completely drain the life and sole out of a persons life. Its an extraordinary hard thing to come out of, especially on your own.

The ability to enjoy the simple things in life is erradicated. Reading a book, going for a walk, watching a movie or chatting to friends. There is no enjoyment in this whatsoever. Nothing brings a smile to your face, not even your family and closest friends.

If you know somebody who is suffereing from depression, try and understand and try and talk to them if you can.

Anyway, I am sure there are more that I can't think of right now but I thought I would share my thoughts here.

once all that happens , your dead except your heart is still beating , you never fully recover from depression regardless of how your life is progressing , you might not consider youself depressed anymore but you are a new person who had to adapt to thier new situation with mental illness , the person you were pre the depression is gone , as i said earlier , some people cannot live with the loss and choose to end it , depression is mourning for the person you once were

Novella

SugarHigh wrote: »

It sounds bad to call depressed people self centred but they are. I think being depressed makes you self centred and also being self centred feeds back into your depression.

I think it's unfair to generalise here. You wouldn't say, "All women are X" or "All Irish people are Y" etc. It's simply untrue. Not all people with depression are self centred. I've met plenty of people who aren't depressed and who were totally self absorbed.

I've also suffered hugely with mental health issues over the last ten years and despite that, I don't think of myself of self centred. Sure, I may have had days where it was all about me, but I don't think there are many people in this world who could hold their hand up and say, "I have always put others before myself".

Tbh, if anything I imagine myself to be more aware of others, and more empathetic than the average person because of what I have been through myself. I guess in the early stages of the illness, it's possible succumb to, "No one understands how I feel, everyone else is wrong and against me". Perhaps this can come across as selfishness and unwillingness to listen, but after a prolonged period of dealing with depression amongst other things, ime it becomes a bit like background music. When you first walk into a nightclub, the music is so loud that you find yourself shouting and straining to hear but when you leave, you've become so used to the noise, it's strange not having it.

What I'm trying to say is, for me anyway, depression is something I've become very used to. It's not an excuse for me acting like a bitch. I never think that other people matter less than I do, nor do I dismiss others or think their concerns are less important than mine. I suppose I don't really appreciate being lumped into your neat little category of 'self centred'.

Snowie

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Sometimes just having someone to vent to helps exponentially.

yeah of course it does. But That problem will be still there. thus meaning if you discuss this while you may have a couple of hours of clarity the problem is the problem is still there.


so what do you do the next day when you cosumed with anxiety to the point were your hands are shaking.....

This is the thing im trying to get at while yes I agree with venting it doesn't fix the problem your better of, taking prozac Which I dont like saying but at least its going to take the feelings away which can make you feel like your clawing at the wall...

Sonics2k

Depression is an interesting thing, millions of people suffer from it, but there is no real set type of depression.

I've suffered from depression since about the age of 13, and 14 years on I still have it. I have come close to suicide on numerous occasions and have tried dealing with my issues in a variety of ways, from insane amounts of exercise and martial arts, to heavy drinking and drug abuse.

Although I do suffer from depression, I am also admittedly incredibly arrogant. Which is another way of dealing with it. My main method of dealing with my problems have basically been to throw myself into whatever I'm doing, whether it's gaming, exercise or reading. I mean, I've read so much stuff in the last 6 years I don't know how I keep it in my head. Everything from physics and theoretical astronomics to ancient history.

My close friends know I have depression issues, but I don't really talk to them about it. They serve a better purpose by simply being friends, hanging out and going out together.

Wibbs

Miss Olenska wrote: »

Yes, they are self-centred but having been there, it's hard not to be and I would have done anything to not be self-centred but you just can't help it.

Oh I'd agree, except for the low grade depressions/notice box types. And they do exist, quite a few of them out there. Plus not all people with depression are self centered either. In any case I'd not call them self centered, I'd call it more self focused. That's a big diff. It's not a selfish thing they're doing to punish themselves or others. It can b, but then selfishness is hardly the sole domain of depressed people. Not by a long shot.

irishh_bob wrote: »

depression makes you very self indulgent but you have to remember , depression is all about looking inward , nowadays people are encouraged to look inward , like thinking , i see this as a very bad thing , thinking too much or being too self aware is very dangerous

Yep IB I would agree with you on the thinking too much part. There's a lot of talk about being self aware and deep thinking etc as if this is always a Good Thing TM. I'd argue it's not or at least not without external guidance. Just as some people are better runners, or more clever or whatever skill/talent we all have I would argue people who can dip into "deep" introspective thought and get out before they do themselves a mischief also have a talent. Many don't. It might be likened to diving underwater holding ones breath, the deeper you go the harder it can be to get back to the surface without drowning. Even professional philosophers have gone off the rails. Some of the big names too. It's not an intelligence thing either. Indeed I'd suspect that more intelligence may actually get you into more trouble than not.

Then throw in the major changes in our social interaction across the spectrum in the last couple of generations. Some very confusing. From new gender roles and the stresses that com with them for both, to increasing levels of isolation. The last one ironic given we've never had so many ways to reach out and touch others, yet loneliness in in a very crowded "room" is all too common today.

Relationships of all kinds are less stable than they have been in the past. Much less. A couple of generations ago and going back through history a man would expect sooner or later to get married have kids etc. Follow the script. Ditto for women. Now? Not nearly so sure and even if you do, there's zero guarantee it'll last. Friendships can be more fluid too.

Add in unrealistic expectations. Though our minds have evolved in the last 40,000 years we still have the "village mind" going on. In a small group or a village you can compare yourself to that small group of people and you're more likely to find a place, a value within that group. Now you can compare yourself with the world and the very best/top people in that world and that's a huge gulf. EG an "ordinary" pretty 18 year old girl is comparing herself to some supermodel who is a complete outlier to the vast majority of humanity. And on top of that the same supermodel doesn't even look like that because of photoshop and the like. Feeling like some sort of failure is to be expected. Ditto for other aspects of life and in both genders. Ancient Greek men and women were faced with ideals in stone and bronze, but they were gods not mortals, something unobtainable. Today we have "living gods and godesses" seemingly obtainable if you buy the right clothes, gadgets or lifestyle. And its all bollocks. We know this in one way, so hence you get some elements of glee when one of these gods or godesses falls flat on their arse.

Our village mind has a lot of catching up to do yet IMHO. It will but it's gonna be a rough ride for a while.

depression is mourning for the person you once were

That's a very interesting way to put it IB. On top of the emotional pain you're also grieving for the loss of you.

Wibbs

Miss Olenska wrote: »

Wow.

Well I did say "those experiences" and "some". I should have added "in particular". And they were pretty long term experiences. I'd stand by my statement in those two cases. I'd also stand by the never again statement too.

Miss Olenska

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I'd agree, except for the low grade depressions/notice box types. And they do exist, quite a few of them out there. Plus not all people with depression are self centered either. In any case I'd not call them self centered, I'd call it more self focused. That's a big diff. It's not a selfish thing they're doing to punish themselves or others. It can b, but then selfishness is hardly the sole domain of depressed people. Not by a long shot.

Yeah, it's self-focus but you really don't want to be like that, well I didn't anyways.

Wibbs wrote: »

Well I did say "those experiences" and "some". I should have added "in particular". And they were pretty long term experiences. I'd stand by my statement in those two cases. I'd also stand by the never again statement too.

Oh yeah, depression is very hard on the people surrounding the sufferer, I can vouch for that. My family found it really tough and frustrating at times. But isn't being with someone about the rough times as well as the good?

Wibbs

Miss Olenska wrote: »

But isn't being with someone about the rough times as well as the good?

Not when the rough outweigh the good. Oh I used to be so much more tolerant/accepting of that, hence I ended up in those situations, but not now I have to say. Not when it can be so terribly draining. Now of course that's just me. With friends not such a big deal at all, with a lover, long term relationship? No. Like I say I've paid my dues over and over on that aspect of life.

irishh_bob

Sonics2k wrote: »

Depression is an interesting thing, millions of people suffer from it, but there is no real set type of depression.

I've suffered from depression since about the age of 13, and 14 years on I still have it. I have come close to suicide on numerous occasions and have tried dealing with my issues in a variety of ways, from insane amounts of exercise and martial arts, to heavy drinking and drug abuse.

Although I do suffer from depression, I am also admittedly incredibly arrogant. Which is another way of dealing with it. My main method of dealing with my problems have basically been to throw myself into whatever I'm doing, whether it's gaming, exercise or reading. I mean, I've read so much stuff in the last 6 years I don't know how I keep it in my head. Everything from physics and theoretical astronomics to ancient history.

My close friends know I have depression issues, but I don't really talk to them about it. They serve a better purpose by simply being friends, hanging out and going out together.

interesting take , btw , im not saying your not arrogant but perhaps you think your arrogant because some people incorrectly labeled you as such , my depression stems from having been a victim of extreme psychological bullying , i was labeled everything under the sun including arrogant , this was a lie insofar as the one who branded me arrogant was themselves the personification of arrogance , when depression strikes , you start remembering all the insults and put downs people threw at you down the years and you view all of them as having been right in thier put downs , in my case , this caused me to view myself as a terrible person and i made very bad descisions as a result of theese false apraisals , its important to remember that not everyone who tells you that you have an attitude problem , are obnoxious or arrogant etc , does so for the same reasons your mum or your boot camp seargant might , some people do it as a way of hurting you , they have no ther motive , depressed people are very vulnerable to the lies of toxic people who dont have your best interests at heart for the simple reason that when your depressed , you always believe the worst about yourself

irishh_bob

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I'd agree, except for the low grade depressions/notice box types. And they do exist, quite a few of them out there. Plus not all people with depression are self centered either. In any case I'd not call them self centered, I'd call it more self focused. That's a big diff. It's not a selfish thing they're doing to punish themselves or others. It can b, but then selfishness is hardly the sole domain of depressed people. Not by a long shot.

Yep IB I would agree with you on the thinking too much part. There's a lot of talk about being self aware and deep thinking etc as if this is always a Good Thing TM. I'd argue it's not or at least not without external guidance. Just as some people are better runners, or more clever or whatever skill/talent we all have I would argue people who can dip into "deep" introspective thought and get out before they do themselves a mischief also have a talent. Many don't. It might be likened to diving underwater holding ones breath, the deeper you go the harder it can be to get back to the surface without drowning. Even professional philosophers have gone off the rails. Some of the big names too. It's not an intelligence thing either. Indeed I'd suspect that more intelligence may actually get you into more trouble than not.

Then throw in the major changes in our social interaction across the spectrum in the last couple of generations. Some very confusing. From new gender roles and the stresses that com with them for both, to increasing levels of isolation. The last one ironic given we've never had so many ways to reach out and touch others, yet loneliness in in a very crowded "room" is all too common today.

Relationships of all kinds are less stable than they have been in the past. Much less. A couple of generations ago and going back through history a man would expect sooner or later to get married have kids etc. Follow the script. Ditto for women. Now? Not nearly so sure and even if you do, there's zero guarantee it'll last. Friendships can be more fluid too.

Add in unrealistic expectations. Though our minds have evolved in the last 40,000 years we still have the "village mind" going on. In a small group or a village you can compare yourself to that small group of people and you're more likely to find a place, a value within that group. Now you can compare yourself with the world and the very best/top people in that world and that's a huge gulf. EG an "ordinary" pretty 18 year old girl is comparing herself to some supermodel who is a complete outlier to the vast majority of humanity. And on top of that the same supermodel doesn't even look like that because of photoshop and the like. Feeling like some sort of failure is to be expected. Ditto for other aspects of life and in both genders. Ancient Greek men and women were faced with ideals in stone and bronze, but they were gods not mortals, something unobtainable. Today we have "living gods and godesses" seemingly obtainable if you buy the right clothes, gadgets or lifestyle. And its all bollocks. We know this in one way, so hence you get some elements of glee when one of these gods or godesses falls flat on their arse.

Our village mind has a lot of catching up to do yet IMHO. It will but it's gonna be a rough ride for a while.

That's a very interesting way to put it IB. On top of the emotional pain you're also grieving for the loss of you.

id argue that you dont have to be particulary intelegent in order to be a deep thinker , im not particular intelegent but im a very deep thinker , however , i wasnt a deep thinker at all before depression struck , my father was more intelegent than me and was very intelegent but very shallow , my mum is a much less intellegent person but is a very deep thinker , her brother suffers from depression very badly , is not what you would call particulary clever but its very deep

irishh_bob

Miss Olenska wrote: »

Yeah, it's self-focus but you really don't want to be like that, well I didn't anyways.



Oh yeah, depression is very hard on the people surrounding the sufferer, I can vouch for that. My family found it really tough and frustrating at times. But isn't being with someone about the rough times as well as the good?

your family eventually grow tired of you , thats why its better to do away with yourself early on and be remembered as a strong person instead of a pathetic loser, the modern day touchy feely culture has convinced people that your family will never get over your death but thats nonesense , people do get over death , having to endure someone who is dead but walking results in endless suffering

Otis Driftwood

irishh_bob wrote: »

your family eventually grow tired of you , thats why its better to do away with yourself early on and be remembered as a strong person instead of a pathetic loser, the modern day touchy feely culture has convinced people that your family will never get over your death but thats nonesense , people do get over death , having to endure someone who is dead but walking results in endless suffering

Im sorry but that is absolute BS.I and Im sure many people here have seen first hand the devastation that engulfs families after a suicide and in some cases it has lead to others in the family killing themselves because of the guilt they felt.That is a dangerous and frankly sickening attitude to have.

billyhead

A lot of people just say to the victim of depression to just snap out of it etc. They don't really understand the effect it can have on someone

aquarius lady

irishh_bob wrote: »

your family eventually grow tired of you , thats why its better to do away with yourself early on and be remembered as a strong person instead of a pathetic loser, the modern day touchy feely culture has convinced people that your family will never get over your death but thats nonesense , people do get over death , having to endure someone who is dead but walking results in endless suffering

What an irresponsible post:mad:! I would ask that anyone contemplating suicide would think of the effects it will have on the person who finds them. Think of the horrific pain, shock, grief and guilt that you are about to visit on your Mom, Dad, siblings and friends and really try and get into how they might feel. Then realise that this is not a rehearsel and you will not be coming back if you decide to kill yourself, yes gone for ever. Depression is horrific but there is loads of support and help out there and you will gradually get better once you start to look after yourself. There are many locost /no cost counselling centres out there and I would advise that you contact them and they will be so happy to walk the walk with you.

tbh

Bob: you can't get the help you need.in this thread. i am genuinely story for your suffering, and am reluctant to remove this resource from you, but its my judgement that your posts are liable to put other posters here at risk and i am going to keep an eye on them. I believe you genuinely feel this way and i don't think you are trying to cause trouble but if you continue posting like this we'll be left with no choice but to remove your access. Please seek help from the appropriate organisations.

Sonics2k

irishh_bob wrote: »

your family eventually grow tired of you , thats why its better to do away with yourself early on and be remembered as a strong person instead of a pathetic loser, the modern day touchy feely culture has convinced people that your family will never get over your death but thats nonesense , people do get over death , having to endure someone who is dead but walking results in endless suffering

Suicide is never an answer.

I acknowledge I was at that point. But I still know my family would always miss me and would never get over it. Please get help irish bob.

irishh_bob

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Im sorry but that is absolute BS.I and Im sure many people here have seen first hand the devastation that engulfs families after a suicide and in some cases it has lead to others in the family killing themselves because of the guilt they felt.That is a dangerous and frankly sickening attitude to have.

thier are much worse things than death in this world

irishh_bob

aquarius lady wrote: »

What an irresponsible post:mad:! I would ask that anyone contemplating suicide would think of the effects it will have on the person who finds them. Think of the horrific pain, shock, grief and guilt that you are about to visit on your Mom, Dad, siblings and friends and really try and get into how they might feel. Then realise that this is not a rehearsel and you will not be coming back if you decide to kill yourself, yes gone for ever. Depression is horrific but there is loads of support and help out there and you will gradually get better once you start to look after yourself. There are many locost /no cost counselling centres out there and I would advise that you contact them and they will be so happy to walk the walk with you.

as for counscelling etc , been there and worn the t - shirt , didnt help , wasnt my thing , just because thier is a market for everything ( misery industry ) doesnt mean thier is a solution to everyones problems

irishh_bob

Sonics2k wrote: »

Suicide is never an answer.

I acknowledge I was at that point. But I still know my family would always miss me and would never get over it. Please get help irish bob.

oh , stop being so bloody dramatic , what do you care if i get help , im not looking for sympathy or advice , i thought it was ok to throw out some views on the issue of depression which were unconventional and flew in the face of the mainstream respectable attitudes surrounding the issue , obviously some people feel uncomfortable about this so i will simply watch from the sidelines from now on

seenitall

irishh_bob wrote: »

thier are much worse things than death in this world

Very true, my life is not the most important thing to me. For me, one of the worst things possible would be my daughter dying, or even worse, killing herself.

Wibbs

irishh_bob wrote: »

thier are much worse things than death in this world

There really isn't IB. Life always carries some hope. Well it always carries the prospect of change. Change is the one given in life, no matter who you are or the problems you face.

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

Im sorry but that is absolute BS.I and Im sure many people here have seen first hand the devastation that engulfs families after a suicide and in some cases it has lead to others in the family killing themselves because of the guilt they felt.That is a dangerous and frankly sickening attitude to have.

I agree OD 100%, right up to the point about sickening. It's sickening to those outside of those feelings, to those inside it makes more sense than it doesn't. They're already guilty, adding more is a drop in the ocean. I agree with dangerous though. To the person thinking these things.

I've attended the funerals of men who have taken this path. I've also seen the results when it has gone wrong and they lived. I'd so love to lay out those results and the deep hole they left and continue to leave in the hearts of those left behind when they succeeded. Suffice to say what may seem like the easy and best way out, never is. It just passes on the hurt.