Depression/Mental Health

LegacyUser

Curious to hear some thoughts on this. I know there are other threads about this on boards, but I thought I'd but this into TGC, following on from others like the bullying one.

To quote a friend, 'depression - a pile of ****', and I personally wouldn't wish it on another living soul.

For me, depression can be a fairly gradual thing. It's sometimes sneaky, yet it can quietly kick your arse without breaking a sweat. If that sounds a bit woe is me, it's not meant to. It's something you feel at your core, it drags you down and can be very hard to turn around.

I've had some low points over the years, though no specific label because I've mostly avoided the medical system. I've to careful enough to avoid slipping up. We know there's a big problem with men, mental health and suicide in this country, but I think we're stuck for a few reasons. I don't think we can just pursue the 'let's talk about it' angle because that seems simplistic and presumptive. Talking doesn't necessarily solve things, besides, saying that we need to speak about it presumes that people can and feel able to, when perhaps the emphasis should be on stripping away the layers that prevent people from feeling able to talk. I know wouldn't feel comfortable speaking to my family. Although I'm not all that close with them, they know some of my past stuff, I wouldn't really open up to them now.

Perhaps it doesn't help some people dismiss depression as nothing being serious or the generation like the Yorkshire men 'in my day, we had it tough!'.

Dravokivich

There's only one problem with the "let's talk about it," approach, someone might not understand how to express what they are going through.

py2006

From experience, it is very hard to articulate depression or the symptoms of it. People who suffer with this condition are not necessarily aware of it. They know they feel awful and struggle with certain aspects of their lives but they have yet to put a label on it. This is when it is extremely hard to discuss it.

Once an understanding and acceptance of the condition occurs one of the hardest things in the world is to openly discuss it. For sufferers the "lets talk about it" approach just isn't as simple as that.

Otis Driftwood

The best description Ive ever heard about depression is that it is sad anger but I agree,its incredibly hard to articulate its symptoms or how one feels.

Snowie

The way I would describe depression it's like standing in a house with the weight of the ceiling and Walls closing in on you anxiety shoots threw the roof.... You can barely look some one in the eye you feel tired and have a lack of energy every day feels like a struggle...

You go to work and affraid to show any one how miserable you are so you counter act it bye being super happy but deep down your anything but, you try show off how happy and cool you are yet all you really are is a person who's sober lonely over critical off your self and find your self judging everything you think and do....

The. There are the days were all you want to do is hide in a corner shy your self away from the world.... Those are the days were you have to fight your self to eat to even talk to some one your completely miserable....

The eventually something happens were you decide fvck this! I'm getting my life together you seek medical help the gp offers you anti depressants and you say no I wanna talk....

You attend councillong you hit every critical voice with a lump gamer you deal with them you cry you feel moments of the most insane clarity....

Then this is the importan bit you take 12 to 24 months of complete and utter singleton you avoid women sex alcohol you concentrate on possibly the most important part of the healing process you get to know this new person you've become...

You cook your self a meal and you enjoy it, you do the hoovering you tap your self on the back every day for at least doin things that are important.... Slowly get, things better... The only other thing I'd say is it's important to know and understand that when you make the desision to make the change and talk this out you want to make changes you have to except that these changes will really change your life your attitude and many things with in your life...

I think that's the easiest way to express and deal with it...

A lot of people who suffer from depression are greedy they only think of them selves I know I did and it's understandable,

Daftendirekt

I found this article not long ago, that discusses some of the 'non-clinical' symptoms of depression. I think a lot of people don't realise they're suffering with it because when you read about the symptoms, they're often quite vague, and don't really resonate.

Things like "disturbed sleep", "weight gain/loss", "loss of appetite", "loss of interest in hobbies/work"... Generally accurate (though not always), but just not specific enough for many people to look at and say, "Yeah, that's me."

It can be incredibly hard to open up to anybody about it, too. There's definitely a sort of stigma attached, although I think this is getting better as more people become more aware of depression as a treatable illness, and not something you can just "snap out of."

KyussBishop

Generally, the problem with talking about problems is that people don't know how to respond, and many are uncomfortable hearing it; talking about stuff can often earn you a stigma (consciously or not), the less people understand it, the greater the stigma.

As for depression; there are so many varieties of it, and so many ways it manifests, that it can be hard to get your head around and understand it.
Some people can have it without even realizing it, and in my case, I've been dealing with other issues for more than a decade, and am only coming around to the idea I may also have some form of depression (still, even now I'm not sure).

It's not just a societal thing though, which makes these problems hard to deal with. Mental health services in this country are in an extremely poor state, which means going private (i.e. paying out of your own pocket) is the best way to get help; many of the people who need help most though, are those who can't afford it.
With the economy in the state it's in, it doesn't look like that will change anytime in the next decade.

LegacyUser

There are many ways depression can manifest in someone's life. Some struggle on day-to-day and others collapse completely. Some get better and never deal with it again and some experience repeated episodes.

"perhaps the emphasis should be on stripping away the layers that prevent people from feeling able to talk. I know wouldn't feel comfortable speaking to my family. Although I'm not all that close with them, they know some of my past stuff, I wouldn't really open up to them now."

This is spot on. Just suggesting that people open up is a nice idea, but it's unrealistic. Also as someone else said some people don't even know they're depressed. Some people expect a lot of themselves so may not be so ready to ask for help when they're feeling down.

I think GPs should just start having patients answer a depression screening test as part of the routine paperwork when beoming a new patient, and include information about it being a serious condition, perhaps with contact information for free anonymous help. There's a strong stigma about it, so in my opinion a more proactive approach is needed.

LegacyUser

Going anonymous for this, on this forum quite a bit but don't have the courage to post this in the open just yet:

I suffered with depression (medically diagnosed) to varying degrees and with different sympthoms over the last 5-6 years, the thing is that until I snapped out of it I didn't even realise I had a problem.

I went through most of the phases from feeling suicidal, numb, experiencing no emotions, closing myself off from people. It effected my health, friendships and relationship (to the point of ending it).

One day I just woke up and started to realise that there had to be more to life then this and I was going to fix it or die trying because it was no way to live. I started to visit a physiologist once a week and that helped to get over the major issues effecting me day to day, any bigger underlying stuff will take longer to sort out. My main issues were with self-image, confidence and residues from years of bullying in my teens and how I'd turned this anger in on myself.

I'm snapped out of it now for 4-6 months, started looking after myself again dieting and training, going out with friends, taking up activities I've always been interested in but never built up the motivation to do.

So far so good, I worry every now and then though that this might just be a phase and I'll slip back into depression again. I'm determined not to and have to continue developing a better self-awareness so that I can "manage" myself better and act on changes before they take hold.

To anyone that wonders if there is more to life, there is! If you're not happy with the way things are then start by changing something, one thing at a time and before you know it you will be a better you and have a new life. I've never felt more alive then I do nowadays. Long may it last.

getzls

Hard to explain depression to some one who has not had it. I could have left the house in a good mood, walked a bit along the street and just felt this horribe feeling decend on me. I'm fine now for about 15 yrs. If you have, say a broken arm you know in 3 months you will be fine but with depression? When, if ever.

SugarHigh

Dravokivich wrote: »

There's only one problem with the "let's talk about it," approach, someone might not understand how to express what they are going through.

There is also the problem that is it fair to unload your problems on your friends? I think if you have depression it's best to speak to a professional. You can't blame your friends for not knowing how to deal with your problems.

stupidusername

HoratioC wrote: »

I know wouldn't feel comfortable speaking to my family. Although I'm not all that close with them, they know some of my past stuff, I wouldn't really open up to them now.

Perhaps it doesn't help some people dismiss depression as nothing being serious or the generation like the Yorkshire men 'in my day, we had it tough!'.

I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable talking to my family about it, but my family are just abnormal anyway.

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

A lot of people who suffer from depression are greedy

Greedy, how?

SugarHigh wrote: »

There is also the problem that is it fair to unload your problems on your friends? I think if you have depression it's best to speak to a professional. You can't blame your friends for not knowing how to deal with your problems.

I'm waiting on talk therapy for more than 4 months now, so what do you suggest I do in the mean time? Why is it too much to expect that friends are there to talk to? I mean, is that not what friends are for?

seithon

SugarHigh wrote: »

There is also the problem that is it fair to unload your problems on your friends? I think if you have depression it's best to speak to a professional. You can't blame your friends for not knowing how to deal with your problems.

If you can't talk to your friends about your problems then they are "fair weather friends" and probably not worth keeping in your life.
That said I understand what your saying, as I've had friends with issues I've been unable to help with but at the same time I would never tell them they could not talk to me about it.

For my own part, I think depression is absolutely insidious and ruinous to peoples lives and the people around them. It is absolutely something that needs to be addressed in the public forum particularly among young men and women.

SugarHigh

stupidusername wrote: »

I'm waiting on talk therapy for more than 4 months now, so what do you suggest I do in the mean time? Why is it too much to expect that friends are there to talk to? I mean, is that not what friends are for?

I personally wouldn't unload my problem on my friends. I don't think it's what they're there for at all. I have friends to socialise with not to act as my free shrink. I just think bringing down your friends with your problems isn't fair and it's expecting too much to think they should be able to help you.

They also have their own problems, if everyone's just bringing down each other I don't see how anyone gets helped. It would probably just turn into a misery competition like so many threads on boards of that nature. If you locked a bunch of beggars in a room would you expect them to come out rich?

Sharing the odd problem is okay but becoming reliant on your mates to sort out your own problems isn't a good friendship.

SugarHigh

seithon wrote: »

If you can't talk to your friends about your problems then they are "fair weather friends" and probably not worth keeping in your life.
That said I understand what your saying, as I've had friends with issues I've been unable to help with but at the same time I would never tell them they could not talk to me about it.

For my own part, I think depression is absolutely insidious and ruinous to peoples lives and the people around them. It is absolutely something that needs to be addressed in the public forum particularly among young men and women.

The odd problem is fine, having the occasion rant or whatever but depression is a bit more serious. I actually consider depression to be contagious and you will just drag your friends down with you. It's not a bad idea to cut people like this out of your life if they just bring you down and drain your energy.

I don't think depressed people make good friends. I do see what Snow Monkey means when he calls them greedy or selfish they will bring tohers down to help themselves. They won't contribute much to the friendship or be pleasant to be around. By their very nature they will be anti-social and negative.

It isn't a good idea to make other peoples problems your own, you don't have responsibility for them. It will only bring you down.

Otis Driftwood

stupidusername wrote: »

I'm waiting on talk therapy for more than 4 months now, so what do you suggest I do in the mean time? Why is it too much to expect that friends are there to talk to? I mean, is that not what friends are for?

The best talks Ive had in my life were with a priest.

Ya,all the cliches about priests,blah blah blah.

My parish priest a few years ago used to be a raging alco,was living on the streets in the UK yet managed to turn his life around.It wasnt some great epiphany,he just hit the wall.The reason he was there was because he had had his heart broken,that was the straw that bucked the proverbial camel.

If nothing else,go to a church when confessions are on and let it go,its anonymous and even if there is a slight chance you may be recognised,who fcukin cares.

LegacyUser

SuperHigh, whilst there may be some truth in what you've outlined, are you not missing the point that in recovering from an illness like depression, a person needs support network that consists of more than professional input, a few appointments here and there and some pills? I also think you seem to be missing the point that communication is so, so important. You seem to be assuming that people sharing their problems is inherently risky and bad. However if you've been burned in your own experiences I can understand where you're coming from.

We have to remember that this is very much on a continuum, and whilst I appreciate that it can be very difficult to support someone who is mentally ill, that trying to convince them they're a good person can be a pretty futile exercise at times, surely we are doing them a disservice in essentially saying they're to be avoided. I think if you have a bit of cop on, recognise your friend is struggling and protect yourself by having pretty clear boundaries then you needn't be dragged down. I certainly would try to be very careful about not being overly involved and would be very, very wary of distressed phone calls at 3am - I am not the Samaritans. I know some people go the ends of the earth for their friends and I understand that, but there's only so much each of us can give and if the person is in denial for ages then I think any friendship would be tested, regardless of the problem.

A friend of mine has been hospitalised a few times for psychosis, it's always been truly horrible experience for her. Her self-esteem is the lowest I've ever seen and yes, I will say that at times it's challenging support her, but she's still a very decent and caring person. If ever there was an example of someone trying to stand up for themselves against their illness, it would be her.

Some people say it's like breaking a leg, well, do people with severe mental illness get get well soon cards and someone wanting to sign their foreheads...(not to say anyone should expect that, but there are some huge misunderstandings out there). There are huge differences in how mental and physical illness are perceived and the value that's placed on one over another. We have a lot of work to do.

SugarHigh

I actually agree with the priest suggestion. They might not be professionals but they have a lot of experience and will just listen instead of trying to give you solutions.

KyussBishop

SugarHigh wrote:

I don't think depressed people make good friends. I do see what Snow Monkey means when he calls them greedy or selfish they will bring tohers down to help themselves. They won't contribute much to the friendship or be pleasant to be around. By their very nature they will be anti-social and negative.

Hmm, this suggests a pretty big misunderstanding of how depression affects different people. Do you paint all people suffering from depression in this way?

I'm not saying I think you do, the way you put it just doesn't seem to allow for alternatives.

Snowie

SugarHigh wrote: »

I actually agree with the priest suggestion. They might not be professionals but they have a lot of experience and will just listen instead of trying to give you solutions.

"let me get this straight you talk to a preast about a problem, he listens says nothing after words he says something like Im sure god will help you when you least expect... so off on your way happy as hell you've disscussed your problems." then 2, 3, 4 , hell il say 24 hours later the problems still there... How is that help ? please define how that is going to help?

councilors dont give solutions its not there job.... Their job is to show you the doors which can help you figure out the solutions for your self...

some one who just sits there and listen is no good!
A coucilor provokes thoughts these thoughts are what help you figure out how to fix the problem...

Wibbs

While I don't agree with all of SH's take I'd broadly agree with these;

SugarHigh wrote: »

They also have their own problems, if everyone's just bringing down each other I don't see how anyone gets helped. It would probably just turn into a misery competition like so many threads on boards of that nature. If you locked a bunch of beggars in a room would you expect them to come out rich?

It can be all too easy to get dragged into that kind of scenario. Almost like cognitive behavioral therapy in reverse. Bad for the person who is depressed and those around them.

SugarHigh wrote: »

The odd problem is fine, having the occasion rant or whatever but depression is a bit more serious.

Agreed, they're your friends not trained professionals. Even if you count such professionals amongst your friends they're too close to the issue.

I don't think depressed people make good friends. I do see what Snow Monkey means when he calls them greedy or selfish they will bring tohers down to help themselves. They won't contribute much to the friendship or be pleasant to be around. By their very nature they will be anti-social and negative.

This I would a few problems with. Yes I have found people with depression can be enormously self focused and this can come out as selfish and yes greedy. I wouldn't agree that they bring others down to help themselves. Certainly not as a coping strategy. The same self focus almost precludes that. Their illness is also not their nature, unlss of course they go undiagnosed and untreated. There's a world of difference between someone being treated and not. There's also a big range of severity in the condition. Someone who gets the odd episode is a different kettle of fish to someone who is "always" down. I've also known very social people with depression. The hidden ones to the outside world.

Friends should be a background support for the person who is seeking help outside of that. You hear the comparison of depression to a broken leg and taking that anology further... you break a leg and you may expect a good mate to sign your cast and give you a lift if you're stuck. You don't expect him or her to set the bone and put a cast on it.

Otis Driftwood

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

"let me get this straight you talk to a preast about a problem, he listens says nothing after words he says something like Im sure god will help you when you least expect... so off on your way happy as hell you've disscussed your problems." then 2, 3, 4 , hell il say 24 hours later the problems still there... How is that help ? please define how that is going to help?

councilors dont give solutions its not there job.... Their job is to show you the doors which can help you figure out the solutions for your self...

some one who just sits there and listen is no good!
A coucilor provokes thoughts these thoughts are what help you figure out how to fix the problem...

Sometimes just having someone to vent to helps exponentially.

coffee_cake

Someone who will just listen can help a lot, just so you feel like someone cares, even. Even if they can't help you directly.
Still, it wouldn't work for everyone.

Colonel Panic

I've suffered from depression on and off since my late teens without even realising it. It was only a frank discussion with my girlfriend a few nights ago that made me realise that while life can be hard, everything shouldn't be about dragging yourself through trivial things and putting on the happy face for everyone.

It was very hard to have that conversation but I definitely think I'm at a point to get some help. I do have a couple of close friend I could have THAT conversation with, but I wouldn't expect any of them to act the shrink beyond that.

I'm not liking the realisation that I've spend much of my life sabotaging it, but I want that to stop and I'll do anything to stop it.

SugarHigh

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

SugarHigh wrote: »

I actually agree with the priest suggestion. They might not be professionals but they have a lot of experience and will just listen instead of trying to give you solutions.

"let me get this straight you talk to a preast about a problem, he listens says nothing after words he says something like Im sure god will help you when you least expect... so off on your way happy as hell you've disscussed your problems." then 2, 3, 4 , hell il say 24 hours later the problems still there... How is that help ? please define how that is going to help?

councilors dont give solutions its not there job.... Their job is to show you the doors which can help you figure out the solutions for your self...

some one who just sits there and listen is no good!
A coucilor provokes thoughts these thoughts are what help you figure out how to fix the problem...

It can be cathartic to just say how you are feeling and saying it to a preist has zero consequences.

If you say it to a friend you might be putting a lot of pressure on them and the friendship.

SugarHigh

I do admit there can be outgoing sociable people with depression. However I consider these to be the type of people who are good at hiding their depression so I'm not sure they would be the sort to tell their friends.

stupidusername

I wasn't talking about unloading your problems constantly on your friends. I don't do that. at least I don't think I do. but it gets to be a lonely place when you feel you can't. What I was actually referring to was just having people that want to be around you when you're down. I'm at the stage where talking will help just about nothing, so no I'm not talking about unloading problems on friends, I get very dark moods and there's nothing anybody can do, but actually be there.

I have had just about all my friends offer to talk when i'm like this, which on paper is great, but at the same time I wonder just how that would go. I mean my best friend is someone I know I could say almost anything to, so I will talk to him most of the time, but I don't know about the rest so much of the time I won't. I'm still learning boundaries with them I suppose.

But anyway, I completely disagree with this attitude that you're a bad person if you expect your friends to listen. If you're not willing to get help or aren't at the point where you realise it's an illness then you can be a little selfish, but still that's not something you should let a person with depression think. you may not know what stage a person is really at, and letting them know they're a burden to you may very well make things worse.

It's a very lonely illness and so I think many people would do well to keep that in mind.

Wibbs

True enough SH. Personally I've been lucky in that while mates and myself have had bad times with episodes of mild "depression"* during them, I've not had a clinically depressed mate. And no it's not because they were hiding it before someone pulls that one.

I have had two exes who were depressives though. All I can say about that is never ever again. I've paid my dues. Because there is a closer or at least more intense emotional connection with lovers it can beincredibly draining on partners and very easy for said partner to get sucked into that black mindset while attempting empathy. Ive sat in darkened rooms with partners sobbing in the corner refusing to seek treatment and the like. I nearly went down the rabbit hole myself. Thank the fates I spotted it in time with the help of friends. From those experiences I can certainly agree with SH's take on "misery loves company" and the self centred behaviour and mindset than can come with some.










*I put depression in parentheses because these were natural responses to difficult situations and they resolved quickly. IE grief and relationship heartbreak and things like that. None of which do I consider depression or in need of any treatment, unless they become chronic. Word to the wise folks, life is great, but life can also hurt and you will feel pain when it does. IMHO Too many seek to medicalise or justify medicalising normal human emotional responses or even turn what would have been an acute episode into a low level chronic one.

Miss Olenska

Wibbs wrote: »

From those experiences I can certainly agree with SH's take on "misery loves company" and the self centred behaviour and mindset than can come with some.

Wow.

irishh_bob

HoratioC wrote: »

Curious to hear some thoughts on this. I know there are other threads about this on boards, but I thought I'd but this into TGC, following on from others like the bullying one.

To quote a friend, 'depression - a pile of ****', and I personally wouldn't wish it on another living soul.

For me, depression can be a fairly gradual thing. It's sometimes sneaky, yet it can quietly kick your arse without breaking a sweat. If that sounds a bit woe is me, it's not meant to. It's something you feel at your core, it drags you down and can be very hard to turn around.

I've had some low points over the years, though no specific label because I've mostly avoided the medical system. I've to careful enough to avoid slipping up. We know there's a big problem with men, mental health and suicide in this country, but I think we're stuck for a few reasons. I don't think we can just pursue the 'let's talk about it' angle because that seems simplistic and presumptive. Talking doesn't necessarily solve things, besides, saying that we need to speak about it presumes that people can and feel able to, when perhaps the emphasis should be on stripping away the layers that prevent people from feeling able to talk. I know wouldn't feel comfortable speaking to my family. Although I'm not all that close with them, they know some of my past stuff, I wouldn't really open up to them now.

Perhaps it doesn't help some people dismiss depression as nothing being serious or the generation like the Yorkshire men 'in my day, we had it tough!'.

talking about it isnt for everyone , i withstood it for twenty years , i had an unhappy childhood due to having grown up in a dysfunctional family with a weak mother and a loveless uncaring father , i was fragile but stayed strong and was the macho tough guy who came across as cold and arrogant and very proud , when i was 20 , i went abroad ( to work and make a fresh start ) but had the misfortune of finding myself working for a viscious middle manager who subjected me to the most callous and viscious campaign of workplace bullying you can imagine , it was a female boss and the psychological abuse was relentless , being the kind of unyielding fighter i was at the time , instead of getting out of dodge , i made a conscious descision to give as good as i got and got dragged into a ferocious and extremly ugly battle of wills with a viscious sectarian bigot , i eventualy broke down and came home a shell of a man , my father never had a kind word for me in my entire life and him seeing me weak and distraught , absolutlely gutted me , i was broken , my defenses were breached and then the depression arrived , after that i lost self respect and dignity and began whinging and moaning to all in sundry about the depression , i attempted suicide and everything was completely laid bare , pride was completely gone and the person i once knew , died , i havent been happy in more than tweleve years and know that i never will be again , i was an extremly proud person and an all or nothing guy and incredibly ambitious but none of this was realised due to a combination of a dysfunctional upbringing and the rotten luck to find myself working for a nazi while overseas , ive spoken to professionals ( but not in over seven years ) and taken anti depressants ( but not in over ten ) but none of it has worked , depression changes you utterly , its robs you of your dignity , destroys your ego ( i had a big one ) and shatters your self esteem and self confidence , it can make you more human however and compassionate but some of us were never suited to the sensitve caring type of male , i completely understand why so many men commit suicide , a part of you dies when depression breaks in and some people simply cannot live with the loss

SugarHigh

Miss Olenska wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

From those experiences I can certainly agree with SH's take on "misery loves company" and the self centred behaviour and mindset than can come with some.

Wow.

It sounds bad to call depressed people self centred but they are. I think being depressed makes you self centred and also being self centred feeds back into your depression.