Controversial Doll Lets Little Girls Pretend to Breast-Feed

Asphyxia

I saw this a couple of weeks ago, I haven't seen it around Boards so I thought I'd post it.

A controversial new doll is leaving some parents wishing for the good old Cabbage Patch days.
A Spanish toymaker known as Berjuan has developed a breast-feeding doll that comes with a special halter top its young "mothers" wear as they pretend to breast-feed their "babies." The halter top has daisies that cover the little girls’ nipples and come undone just as easily as the flaps of a nursing bra would.

The doll — called Bebe Gloton, which translates as “gluttonous baby” — makes sucking noises as it "feeds."

Like many other dolls, Bebe Gloton can cry, signaling she wants more milk.
Although many health care providers promote the benefits of breast-feeding, parents around the world have criticized Berjuan, saying the idea of breast-feeding is too grown-up for young children -- and may even promote early pregnancy.

"That's not cool," Lori Reynolds, of El Paso, Texas, told KFOXTV.com. "No, I would never get that for my child."
But other moms said they support the product.
"I think that it’s great that people want to have a doll that promotes breast-feeding,” said Rose Haluschak, also of El Paso. “Most dolls that are purchased come with a bottle. That is the norm in society, an artificial way to feed your baby.”
Dr. Manny Alvarez, managing health editor of FOXNews.com, said although he supports the idea of breast-feeding, he sees how his own daughter plays with dolls and wonders if Bebe Gloton might speed up maternal urges in the little girls who play it.
“Pregnancy has to entail maturity and understanding,” Alvarez said. “It’s like introducing sex education in first grade instead of seventh or eighth grade. Or, it could inadvertently lead little girls to become traumatized. You never know the effects this could have until she’s older.”
Alvarez said breast-feeding reduces childhood infections, strengthens maternal bonding and increases the child’s immune system. But introducing breast-feeding to girls young enough to play with dolls seems inappropriate, he said.
“What’s next?” wrote Eric Ruhalter, a parenting columnist for New Jersey’s Star Ledger. “Bebe Sot — the doll who has a problem with a different kind of bottle, and loses his family, job and feelings of self-worth? Bebe Limp — the male doll who experiences erectile dysfunction? Bebe Cell Mate — a weak, unimposing doll that experiences all the indignation and humiliation of life in prison?
"Toy themes should be age appropriate. I think so anyway.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,537261,00.html#ixzz1WiVYTiJG

I think at that age children should be enjoying there childhood before having to even think about 'breastfeeding' On some level I'd actually think it's weird.

What are other peoples thoughts on this toy? Would you consider purchasing it for your child? I'm really interested in reading opinions.

strobe

Well I guess they already have dolls urinating and defecating all over themselves and screaming crying the house down and needing to be burped so this is just the next logical step. I think the whole thing is fairly mental really.


I think the more interesting question is why with such consistency little girls want to play at being mothers and little boys play at being soldiers and how much of that is innate and how much is social/environmental influence.

strobe

strobe wrote: »

I think the more interesting question is why with such consistency little girls want to play at being mothers and little boys play at being soldiers and how much of that is innate and how much is social/environmental influence.

Personally, I much preferred playing with my toy cars, remote control cars, reading, etc... so I'd also be interested in that question. I never had one of those dolls and I never had any interest.

The doll is bad enough but the halter top with removable parts? for children?! :mad:

seamus

Not all that shocking really. And the comments in that article expose exactly why it's not a bad idea at all.

All of the criticisms are levelled at the idea that breastfeeding is something "sexualised" or that breastfeeding is a grown-up-only thing and that children should not be exposed to it. Which is in fact the exact opposite of what breastfeeding is, and children should be taught that it's a natural thing, not to be hidden away. Mothers should not be pressured into covering up in the presence of children.

As strobe says, how is breastfeeding any more "grown-up" than cleaning up after a doll that pees itself?

"Could lead to early pregnancy". Such tripe (from the article). If anything, removing the mystique and "isn't it all awesome" from child-rearing will convince more young women that they should wait until they're old enough to handle it.

The halter top is a bit odd, but only if you consider it in a sexualised way, I guess.

Gandhi

I've seen my son (3) pretend to breastfeed his teddy bear while watching my wife breastfeed his little brother. I would guess that almost any little girl who has seen a woman breastfeed a baby has pretended to breastfeed her dolls. If the doc in the article is worried about speeding up maternal urges, then should little girls be allowed to play with dolls at all? Does he have the same worry about dolls that come with bottles?

Some of the opinions in the article suggest that the people think of breastfeeding as having a sexual component to it, which is an attitude that will hopefully change as more mothers breastfeed in public. I hate the way he says kids should not be "exposed to breastfeeding" like he is equating it to lapdancing or heroin usage. My toddler often casually mentions how he used to drink Mommy's milk when he was little and now drinks regular milk.

I will say that giving a little girl a nursing bra (or any bra) is a bit much, though.

Acoshla

I don't have a problem with them promoting breast feeding and getting kids used to it, that itself is a great idea, because I think it's mad that women are made to feel embarrassed about doing something so natural. What annoys me is the assumption that little girls want to play at being mommy, the whole concept of baby dolls that do this sort of stuff creeps me out! I had a baby doll when I was small, she fell out of her buggy a lot because I ran with it trailing behind me, then I broke her face on a footpath (I feel bad about that tbh, she was a nice doll), teddies and basically all other toys were just so much more interesting!

Villette

I don't see it as being much different to a doll that stimulates bottle feeding. In fact, I would also argue that it might help break down the mystique that still surrounds breast-feeding and highlight how natural it is. It's shocking the amount of girls I hear saying that breast-feeding is 'disgusting'.

Little Acorn

I don't know, my initial reaction was just a bit weirded out by it. There are good points that maybe it will make breast feeding more accepted. I just don't know why they want a little girl to wear a halter top with daisy nipples to imitate breast feeding though?
I had a baby doll when I was younger, I liked to change it's outfits, and I liked the way it's eyes would close when you lay it flat. Some of my friends had dolls you could give a bottle to, or a spoon where the "food disappeared" when you put it to the mouth.
I used to pretend that the doll was like my baby sister, or that I was it's babysitter.

The other dolls that wee, or eat, or drink bottles might be things that young people might help their mum's with anyway if they have a baby brother or sister. I know I often held a bottle, or gave baby food to my younger brother, even though I was a kid myself.

Breast feeding though is something only an adult female should be doing. An adult female mother breastfeeding, perfectly normal and natural.
A 6 year old girl with fake daisy nipple things, imitating the act of breast feeding, just seems weird to me. It just seems like too much of an adult thing for a child to be doing imo.

I realize this probably sounds like a stupid reason, but I just find it weird.

Das Kitty

I think it's a brilliant doll. I don't see why it's ok for dolls to be fed with bottles and this to be different.

The article is so telling, people think breastfeeding is sexual. It's a sad state of affairs.

The Princess Bride

I think everything is over analysed nowadays.Should boys not play with dolls and girls play with tractors.Should girls wear blue and boys pink? For God's sake let them play with whatever they want,sometimes children are happier with a wooden spoon and a box.

Villette wrote: »

It's shocking the amount of girls I hear saying that breast-feeding is 'disgusting'.

Some women too,unfortunately,I've met them.:o Not sure what men think.

I'd have a problem with the halter top aspect,other than that,it's probably just another toy company out to make a quick €€ from parents.
Incidently,when I was b/feeding my youngest,the older 2 used to b/f their dolls- no big deal,no pressure to have babies in their teens or b/f themselves if they ever have children- in fact,I'd imagine they've forgotten( Ha, I have the photos Ha!!!!!! )

jam_mac_jam

Why is this more controversial than a bottle, very strange. Kids copy adults and if they see somebody breastfeeding they will do that, nothing strange or dirty about that.

LeeHoffmann

Breast feeding though is something only an adult female should be doing. An adult female mother breastfeeding, perfectly normal and natural.
A 6 year old girl with fake daisy nipple things, imitating the act of breast feeding, just seems weird to me. It just seems like too much of an adult thing for a child to be doing imo.

totally agree with this. This breastfeeding doll and the daisy nipples thing...I find it really creepy. To be honest though I find even 'normal' baby dolls weird. Let children be children. Stop trying to train them for motherhood

Das Kitty

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

totally agree with this. This breastfeeding doll and the daisy nipples thing...I find it really creepy. To be honest though I find even 'normal' baby dolls weird. Let children be children. Stop trying to train them for motherhood

Children naturally gravitate towards certain toys. My little boy has a baby doll that he looks after. Play is almost always emulating what the child sees. He sees his Daddy and I looking after him and wants to do the same. He sees me mixing a pot and he wants to mix something too.

Only an adult can drive a car, does that mean that children shouldn't have toy cars or that it's creepy?

LeeHoffmann

Children naturally gravitate towards certain toys...He sees his Daddy and I looking after him and wants to do the same. He sees me mixing a pot and he wants to mix something too.

I'm not saying dolls should be banned from toy shops - I'm saying that I hate to say dolls pushed on little girls, which is what I have witnessed time and again. Most of the girls I know have been given dolls as presents when they were very young and had no idea what to do with them and had never requested or shown an interest in them. I've seen babies with dolls in their cribs. It's weird.

Only an adult can drive a car, does that mean that children shouldn't have toy cars or that it's creepy?

Not the same thing at all at all. Giving little girls fake daisy nipples to breastfeed their dolls with is getting them to pretend they have an adult's body. It definitely oversteps the mark. If you want to promote positive attitudes to breastfeeding, there are far better ways of doing it than getting little girls to pretend they have the bodies of fully grown women.

bronte

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I'm not saying dolls should be banned from toy shops - I'm saying that I hate to say dolls pushed on little girls, which is what I have witnessed time and again. Most of the girls I know have been given dolls as presents when they were very young and had no idea what to do with them and had never requested or shown an interest in them. I've seen babies with dolls in their cribs. It's weird.
Not the same thing at all at all. Giving little girls fake daisy nipples to breastfeed their dolls with is getting them to pretend they have an adult's body. It definitely oversteps the mark. If you want to promote positive attitudes to breastfeeding, there are far better ways of doing it than getting little girls to pretend they have the bodies of fully grown women.

This.
Strikes me as conditioning to be honest.
It just seems really inappropriate.

That said, my own mother wouldn't let me wear a veil to my first communion...she thought it was creepy that some of the little girls looked like miniature brides. She had a point, looking back.

Das Kitty

The dolls for girls thing I think is a separate issue. I agree that there is a good deal of conditioning, but there is also a natural draw to these toys from kids too.

On to the pretending to have an adult's body being creepy. I know when I was a child we would pretend to be pregnant (cushion up the jumper), pretend to have boobs (balloons up the jumper ... I'm sensing a pattern). There was nothing creepy about it, it was all in innocence and emulating what we saw with our parents and their friends.

One of my friends' mother was a midwife and we used to play maternity hospital and give birth to our cushions. I've seen little boys pretend to shave too, that's emulating having an adult man's body.

I honestly think there's an element of projecting what we feel about the imagery from an adult's viewpoint on these things. I remember a time my dad walloped me because I was eating a banana by scraping it down with my teeth. To his adult eyes I was emulating a blowjob but I had no idea what a blowjob even was.

LeeHoffmann

On to the pretending to have an adult's body being creepy. I know when I was a child we would pretend to be pregnant (cushion up the jumper), pretend to have boobs (balloons up the jumper ... I'm sensing a pattern). There was nothing creepy about it, it was all in innocence and emulating what we saw with our parents and their friends.

One of my friends' mother was a midwife and we used to play maternity hospital and give birth to our cushions. I've seen little boys pretend to shave too, that's emulating having an adult man's body.

:eek: Never seen any of those things and never did any of those things. You said your son pretends to breastfeed? At least that's coming from himself - he wasn't given a doll that teaches him to breastfeed, which is what I think will happen to a lot of little girls with this doll (see my previous post).

Das Kitty

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

:eek: Never seen any of those things and never did any of those things. You said your son pretends to breastfeed? At least that's coming from himself - he wasn't given a doll that teaches him to breastfeed, which is what I think will happen to a lot of little girls with this doll (see my previous post).

No he doesn't pretend to breastfeed at the moment, he hasn't seen it since he was 3 months old himself. He chose the doll himself and loves it.

In fairness if you give a child a play kitchen, a toy car, etc they're going to pretend to do what they see their parents doing, they are learning but you wouldn't expect a child to be able to cook your dinner or drive you to work after play

I don't see the harm in them pretending to breastfeed at all, I don't see how it's any different from pretending to bottle feed a doll in perhaps encouraging girls to have babies?

I was given dolls myself as a child and I never liked them, but that's me and there were plenty of girls I was friends with who loved their dolls. Being given a doll as a child didn't condition me to become a mother. Going on my dolls I wouldn't be fit, most of them ended up without heads or painted with permanent markers

And boys can have this doll too (although I'd say it will be girls for the most part)

LeeHoffmann

In fairness if you give a child a play kitchen, a toy car, etc they're going to pretend to do what they see their parents doing, they are learning but you wouldn't expect a child to be able to cook your dinner or drive you to work after play

I'm genuinely shocked that you see no difference between a toy car and toy nipples

I don't see the harm in them pretending to breastfeed at all, I don't see how it's any different from pretending to bottle feed a doll in perhaps encouraging girls to have babies?

I think it is different to pretend bottle-feeding but as I said, I find both and the whole doll thing strange.

I was given dolls myself as a child and I never liked them, but that's me and there were plenty of girls I was friends with who loved their dolls. Being given a doll as a child didn't condition me to become a mother. Going on my dolls I wouldn't be fit, most of them ended up without heads or painted with permanent markers

I didn't like dolls myself as a child but had friends who did. I don't think that playing with dolls is actual training to be a mother :rolleyes: but there is a reason why girls are given dolls and boys aren't, and I don't think it's all as innocent as 'they just want to play with them'.

Das Kitty

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I'm genuinely shocked that you see no difference between a toy car and toy nipples

I think it is different to pretend bottle-feeding but as I said, I find both and the whole doll thing strange.

It's because I know there is nothing sexual about breastfeeding. Nipples in this context are there to feed babies.

I didn't like dolls myself as a child but had friends who did. I don't think that playing with dolls is actual training to be a mother :rolleyes: but there is a reason why girls are given dolls and boys aren't, and I don't think it's all as innocent as 'they just want to play with them'.

As I said in my last post I agree. But I do believe there is a bit of nature in there too. When monkeys are given the choice of dolls or trucks, most male monkeys go for the trucks and female go for the dolls (even dolls that don't look like babies). It works the other way too, my mother was horrified that I allowed my son to have a doll.

LeeHoffmann

It's because I know there is nothing sexual about breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding isn't sexual, but adult breasts on little girls is sexualisation imo

As I said in my last post I agree. But I do believe there is a bit of nature in there too. When monkeys are given the choice of dolls or trucks, most male monkeys go for the trucks and female go for the dolls (even dolls that don't look like babies). It works the other way too, my mother was horrified that I allowed my son to have a doll.

Sorry I hadn't seen you agreeing in a previous post. I agree there's a 'little bit of nature' but I'm very wary of attempts to train children for specific gender roles

Didn't everyone recoil in horror at yer wan who gave the 4 year old fake breasts for a beauty pageant so she could look older? But now it's ok in here for them to emulate adults?

Das Kitty

bluewolf wrote: »

Didn't everyone recoil in horror at yer wan who gave the 4 year old fake breasts for a beauty pageant so she could look older? But now it's ok in here for them to emulate adults?

I didn't!

Das Kitty

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

Breastfeeding isn't sexual, but adult breasts on little girls is sexualisation imo

I can't agree with you here, if a breast isn't being used sexually, how is pretending to use it in that way suddenly sexual. It doesn't follow.

To me it's like the vulva, when you're urinating it's not sexual, but when you're having sex it is.

Lets not forget as well that this is a daisy sticker we're talking about, probably partly to discourage kids from pulling up their tops when playing with the doll.

Penny Dreadful

Gandhi wrote: »

I've seen my son (3) pretend to breastfeed his teddy bear while watching my wife breastfeed his little brother.
I would guess that almost any little girl who has seen a woman breastfeed a baby has pretended to breastfeed her dolls. Some of the opinions in the article suggest that the people think of breastfeeding as having a sexual component to it, which is an attitude that will hopefully change as more mothers breastfeed in public. I hate the way he says kids should not be "exposed to breastfeeding" like he is equating it to lapdancing or heroin usage. My toddler often casually mentions how he used to drink Mommy's milk when he was little and now drinks regular milk.

I will say that giving a little girl a nursing bra (or any bra) is a bit much, though.

Totally agree about the nursing (or any) bra being OTT.
Breastfeeding (although I'm not sure I'd be doing it myself but will wait until in the situation where I have to decide to .....well decide:o) is entirely normal, common, average and not at all sexualised. Given that some teenage boys are shocked to discover that adult women have pubic hair as porn has done away with all of that, I think breasts being seen as more than simply a sexual thing is probably good.

Loved your story about your son breastfeeding his teddy bear. My nephew used to sit beside his mum when she was breast feeding his little sister and he'd breast feed his teddy and then when it was dry and winded (he'd check!) he'd go off outside to play on his tractor and do some "mans work".

Beggared

At first I thought this was a really odd idea but the closer you look at it the more natural it becomes. Some posters have mentioned "conditioning" but isn't feeding dollies from miniature feeding bottles another form of conditioning? To some extent that is conditioning little girls to think that bottle feeding is how babies should be fed. Aside from the ability to give birth the ability to naturally feed an infant from her own body is one of the greatest wonders of motherhood. It's natures way of providing the exact nourishment an infant needs along with supporting the child's immune system at the most vulnerable time of its life. There can be no stronger way to bond with a child other than feeding it of yourself. I think that a positive view of breastfeeding should be encouraged in our children. If these dolls encourage that then they have my support.

pickarooney

I'm pretty sure we had this thread a couple of months back... I don't see what the fuss is about and wonder what exactly is bothering the people who find it creepy that a child pretends to feed a baby. Kids (boys and girls) do this anyway, with or without a special doll - I've seen teddy bears, action men and piles of lego blocks put into a sling and 'breastfed'.

LeeHoffmann

if a breast isn't being used sexually, how is pretending to use it in that way suddenly sexual.

Because a child's breast and an adult's are completely different. Because a child is not capable of breastfeeding and I don't think we should be getting them to pretend they have adult bodies.
As I said, there are lots of other ways to encourage healthy attitudes to breastfeeding, other than lumbering little kids with fake nipples to try out breastfeeding on pretend babies

pickarooney

I don't see how it's different to pretending to shave, drive, give birth, pax taxes or wear size 11 shoes, to be honest.

LeeHoffmann

I'm just kind of speechless. I really don't know how you can see no difference between a) pretending to drive with a toy steering wheel and wearing shoes that are too big for you, and b) pretending to breastfeed with fake nipples and pretending to give birth :eek:

Morag

It is a flat vest with two plastic flowers on it, it's not like it's a harness which replicates a full figured bosom.

LeeHoffmann

I read about this in the paper this morning and I must have mis-read it because I imagined plastic strap-on nipples. I've googled it (following Sharrow's post) and this is the pic - quite different to how I imagined. Meh I don't see this as that big a deal but the whole dolly thing still irks me.

WindSock

Kids breastfeeding their dolls....oooookaaaaayyyyyy.......

I still reserve the right to give a totally puzzled look when I see it happening though.

Neyite

My sisters boy "breastfed" his teddy when he saw his mother feed his younger brothers, complete with the absent minded talking to himself "which side did I give him last time" then burped and changed teddy.

Teddy also got lots and lots of time-outs in the kitchen complete with my nephew counting to 3 and telling him to say sorry.

Kids just play and process what they see.

Truley

I think it's a fantastic idea. Breastfeeding is a natural way to feed a child and hopefully this could be a step towards dropping the shame and stigma that seems to surround it in this country. Aside from this, children are being thought that bottle/formula feeding is the only way to feed a baby? Surely that's the creepy bit?

LeeHoffmann

the shame and stigma that seems to surround it in this country

What shame and stigma? Honest question - I'm intrigued to hear about any shame or stigma you've witnessed because I'm not aware of any

children are being thought that bottle/formula feeding is the only way to feed a baby? Surely that's the creepy bit?

I don't think they are being taught that. I think the creepy bit is that they're being taught about how to care for babies at all. The amount of kids who go to school having never held a pencil before is astounding - surely it would be a better skill to teach kids how to write/colour/develop fine motor skills than how to breastfeed babies and change their nappies etc?

Truley

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

What shame and stigma? Honest question - I'm intrigued to hear about any shame or stigma you've witnessed because I'm not aware of any

Read this thread, it's full of people declaring how 'creepy' and sexualised it is. As if it's wrong for a child to imitate breastfeeding but not to imitate formula feeding.

I don't think they are being taught that. I think the creepy bit is that they're being taught about how to care for babies at all. The amount of kids who go to school having never held a pencil before is astounding - surely it would be a better skill to teach kids how to write/colour/develop fine motor skills than how to breastfeed babies and change their nappies etc?

Learning how to take care of children is an extremely valid and important life skill whether it's to your taste or not. I don't see how a child imitating motherhood is automatically compromising other technical or academic skills. Unless you come from the school of thought that anything to do with home keeping/ child rearing is backwards and unintelligent.

gargleblaster

I get the point about the social conditioning and gender stereotyping, but that's more on the gift giver than the toy. If someone thoughtlessly gives a doll to a child that doesn't like dolls, that's not so nice, but I would hope that no one would force the child to play with it. I didn't really like dolls so I kept most of mine in a case in the closet.

And children can have both dolls and crayons and art supplies and all kinds of other pointless or skill-building toys. You can pick which one you think is best but the bottom line for me is that most parents are going to buy the things their child wants for them to play with. Obviously some would have a problem with this or some other kind of toy and not buy it. For example I wouldn't allow my children to play with Bratz dolls (wonder if you even have those in Ireland).

There are exceptions of course but for me if a child (boy or girl) asked for this breastfeeding doll, I wouldn't bat an eye, much less tell them how much more helpful other toys may be because it's just a toy.

And I don't know about Ireland but in the US there is most definitely a stigma about breastfeeding. People seem to want to pretend that it doesn't happen. Nursing mothers are often expected or even asked to go into a public restroom to feed their children. I always wonder if people like that would volunteer to have their lunch in a restroom. Most often they're just asked to leave the premises. Most people seemto consider it some shameful or disgusting thing.

LeeHoffmann

Read this thread, it's full of people declaring how 'creepy' and sexualised it is.

I've been involved in this thread from the get go and nobody has said that breastfeeding (i.e. adult women feeding their babies) is creepy. What has been said is that it's creepy when children are encouraged to imitate/practice breastfeeding with their dolls. Maybe you should read the thread.
So do you think there is shame and stigma in this country about actual breastfeeding?

Learning how to take care of children is an extremely valid and important life skill whether it's to your taste or not. I don't see how a child imitating motherhood is automatically compromising other technical or academic skills. Unless you come from the school of thought that anything to do with home keeping/ child rearing is backwards and unintelligent.

This seems to be putting words in my mouth. You have no reason to insinuate that I think child rearing is backwards and unintelligent and it's nonsensical to bring that into the debate. I believe that teaching kids to handle pencils is a far more useful and age appropriate skill than teaching them how to correctly breastfeed babies. I also see learning how to take care of children as an important life skill but not at age 5. Teach them that kind of thing when it's relevant for them.

LittleBook

Truley wrote: »

Breastfeeding is a natural way to feed a child and hopefully this could be a step towards dropping the shame and stigma that seems to surround it in this country.

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

What shame and stigma? Honest question - I'm intrigued to hear about any shame or stigma you've witnessed because I'm not aware of any

Honestly, I find there's more "shame and stigma" surrounding women who can't breastfeed these days.

What's odd for me is that a company has found a way to capitalise on this. It's clear from this thread that children (male and female!) are naturally copying what they see at home without being encouraged to do so by some oddball "toy". Since when do kids need so many props to play pretend?

pickarooney

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I'm just kind of speechless. I really don't know how you can see no difference between a) pretending to drive with a toy steering wheel and wearing shoes that are too big for you, and b) pretending to breastfeed with fake nipples and pretending to give birth :eek:

Probably because I see childbirth and breastfeeding as normal things and not shameful or taboo.

LeeHoffmann

Probably because I see childbirth and breastfeeding as normal things and not shameful or taboo

I see them as normal things for adults

pickarooney

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I see them as normal things for adults

Just like driving, shaving etc. When are you actually going to get to the core of your argument instead of going around in circles and banging on about pencils and whatnot?

LeeHoffmann

I was just thinking how nice it is that we can have disagreements in TLL without posts getting nasty and then your post. I'm sorry you've missed the core of my argument - it's this: getting girls to pretend they have adult bodies is not age appropriate and it's unnecessary. I also think it inappropriate to give them toys designed to teach them gender specific roles without them first requesting them. I've said all of this already.

gargleblaster

The thing is though, no one is getting them to do it, they just do it. Many children play at breastfeeding with teddy bears and dolls and other things, it's just part of growing up. This doll is just marketed specially for that particular type of play acting. I don't see how it's any different than kids pretending to shave facial hair, or playing dress up with high heels and makeup.

Truley

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I've been involved in this thread from the get go and nobody has said that breastfeeding (i.e. adult women feeding their babies) is creepy. What has been said is that it's creepy when children are encouraged to imitate/practice breastfeeding with their dolls. Maybe you should read the thread.

Sorry, but to me, saying that it's inappropriate for a child to imitate breastfeeding is just a roundabout way of suggesting an element of shamefulness in the act itself. Kind of like saying you don't have a problem with French people but don't want your child playing a role of a French person in a game. If you know what I mean.

Would you let your child pretend to drive a car? Would you let your child pretend to cook a dinner? Why is breastfeeding any different? At end of the day imitation is the primary method by which young children learn and grow to understand something. By wanting to hold this method of exploration back from a child surely it implies you think there is something negative/harmful about it?

So do you think there is shame and stigma in this country about actual breastfeeding?

Yes.

This seems to be putting words in my mouth. You have no reason to insinuate that I think child rearing is backwards and unintelligent and it's nonsensical to bring that into the debate. I believe that teaching kids to handle pencils is a far more useful and age appropriate skill than teaching them how to correctly breastfeed babies. I also see learning how to take care of children as an important life skill but not at age 5. Teach them that kind of thing when it's relevant for them.

Your analogy doesn't really make much sense. Children aren't taught to write before the age of four for a very valid reason and it has nothing to do with their precious time being wasted on dolls and role play.

LeeHoffmann

to me, saying that it's inappropriate for a child to imitate breastfeeding is just a roundabout way of suggesting an element of shamefulness in the act itself.

That's not the case for me however. I see nothing shameful in breastfeeding Why would I?

Would you let your child pretend to drive a car? Would you let your child pretend to cook a dinner? Why is breastfeeding any different? At end of the day imitation is the primary method by which young children learn and grow to understand something. By wanting to hold this method of exploration back from a child surely it implies you think there is something negative/harmful about it?

I'm aware of the importance of imitation in children's learning and have nothing against learning through imitation. I find it inappropriate for children to be encouraged to imitate breastfeeding as it's irrelevant to their life at their stage of development and it seems to my mind to be another instance of initiating girls into a gender specific role at a very young age. There are far better skills they could be learning at this age.

Yes.

can you give some examples of it?

Your analogy doesn't really make much sense. Children aren't taught to write before the age of four for a very valid reason and it has nothing to do with their precious time being wasted on dolls and role play.

I didn't give an analogy! What do you think this very valid reason is? I didn't even say they should be taught to write - I said they should learn how to use a pencil. I also think that physical activity and exploration of their world is preferable to playing with dolls

The thing is though, no one is getting them to do it, they just do it. Many children play at breastfeeding with teddy bears and dolls and other things, it's just part of growing up.

I'd be interested to see whether most people agree. I've a silly number of cousins as well as 3 younger brothers (1 of whom is yet to start primary school) that I've been in close contact with for years. From what I've seen, little girls don't get a chance to request dolls as they're in the crib with them from within weeks of birth. I've seen women show little girls how to correctly play with dolls - what to do with them, to be gentle etc. I've NEVER seen any kid pretend to breastfeed or give birth or shave facial hair! Are these really the usual things kids get up to? Considering the vast number of kids I've looked after (also a primary school teacher), it's difficult for me to think it is BUT I'm open to being corrected on this

Morag

Mimicking and roleplay are a normal part of childhood play and any educational development and child Phycology book worth the paper it is printed on will mention it.

LeeHoffmann

I don't think anybody's arguing against that point

Morag

It answers your questions of

these really the usual things kids get up to?

LeeHoffmann

I don't see how it answers that question - if they regularly see these things going on they might copy but they might also copy the things that are more relevant/regular in their lives. Do you think most kids pretend to breastfeed, give birth and shave?