Should people who cycle on footpaths be prosecuted?

nqemt

As regards cycling on the foothpath, it is illegal and if people reaad the rules of the road, it is there in black & white for all to read. What annoys me is the idiots who cycle on foothpaths where cycle lanes are provided, e.g. Stephens Green.

DirkVoodoo

Sydney is full of "shared paths". I hate them with a passion, BUT if it were as dangerous as people say, then in a city where it is legal, surely there would be a high rate of accidents? It's only dangerous if the cyclist behaves like a jerk, like someone tearing through a light turning red.

Probably because there aren't that many cyclists.

Captain Havoc

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Sydney is full of "shared paths". I hate them with a passion, BUT if it were as dangerous as people say, then in a city where it is legal, surely there would be a high rate of accidents? It's only dangerous if the cyclist behaves like a jerk, like someone tearing through a light turning red.

Probably because there aren't that many cyclists.

Our local corpo is putting these up recently, they are full of people with dogs, I find it difficult to cycle on them. cyclists belong on shared spaces with cars not dogs on leashes.

tomasrojo

There are cycle lanes at Stephen's Green? I know there are some flanking it on the south side, but that's it, isn't it?

The obvious reason for cycling on the footpath there (though I don't condone it) is to avoid going all the way around the green, since the traffic system is a one-way gyratory, to get somewhere 100m away. If there were cycle lanes there to facilitate this, that would make quite a lot of sense.

kenmc

tomasrojo wrote: »

There are cycle lanes at Stephen's Green? I know there are some flanking it on the south side, but that's it, isn't it?

The obvious reason for cycling on the footpath there (though I don't condone it) is to avoid going all the way around the green, since the traffic system is a one-way gyratory, to get somewhere 100m away. If there were cycle lanes there to facilitate this, that would make quite a lot of sense.

Pretty sure theres a "share footpath" to the west, alongside the luas, to allow cyclists go with the flow of traffic as far as York Street, not turn left, and then cycle against the traffic coming up in front of the Dandalion cafe and the hotel. :rolleyes:
Here: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Stephen%27s+Green+Shopping+Centre,+Saint+Stephen%27s+Green,+Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.338516,-6.261864&spn=0.00483,0.012349&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.974572,101.162109&oq=stephens+green,+dublin,++ireland&hq=Stephen%27s+Green+Shopping+Centre,&hnear=St+Stephen%27s+Green,+Dublin,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.338686,-6.261722&panoid=6wHXL7KU1oXxFLP_HBA3LQ&cbp=12,14.72,,0,17.12

and from the other side
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Stephen%27s+Green+Shopping+Centre,+Saint+Stephen%27s+Green,+Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.339075,-6.261418&spn=0.000607,0.001544&sll=53.33936,-6.261177&sspn=0.001214,0.003087&oq=stephens+green,+dublin,++ireland&hq=Stephen%27s+Green+Shopping+Centre,&hnear=St+Stephen%27s+Green,+Dublin,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=53.339075,-6.261418&panoid=t3xftv3sC3aCiUxjo3BSMA&cbp=12,165.6,,0,5.47

So what is this thing? It's not marked as a cycle track. It's not a road. But it says "except cyclists". WTF?

BostonB

tomasrojo wrote: »

....The obvious reason for cycling on the footpath there (though I don't condone it) is to avoid going all the way around the green, since the traffic system is a one-way gyratory, to get somewhere 100m away. If there were cycle lanes there to facilitate this, that would make quite a lot of sense.

If someone won't dismount to walk 100m then I don't think they are going to abide any rules tbh.

tomasrojo

Conversely, the only reason for the gyratory is to keep motorised traffic moving as smoothly as possible. There's no reason for bikes to be included in a huge one-way system.

The "Except Cyclists" bit on the west is not a cycle track, and it drops you off into a one-way street, with you going the wrong way. I think it's a left-over from something planned but never built. Someone posted an official comment about it here, but I can't remember any more than that.

EDIT: Ah, there it is:

Originally Posted by The Corpo
I refer to your correspondence dated 24th October, 2006 and 9th November, 2006 requesting information regarding the cycle track on St. Stephen’s Green West. According to our records and the Traffic Inspector, the cycle lane on St Stephen’s Green is complete.

No further work on cycle tracks is planned at the moment.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54475696&postcount=10

The existing arrangement with No Entry except for cyclists on the buildout in front of the College of Surgeons is more than a little peculiar to say the least. While this is not legally a cycle lane,it does apparently direct cyclists the wrong way down one way streets. I am told that this was provided to allow cyclists have access to and from Grafton Street when Luas was being built. The provision of contra flow cycle lanes would seem to be justified and needed.

However, I have also been informed that the whole area from the College of Surgeons to the top of Dawson Street will be a major building site from next year onwards to facilitate work on the proposed underground Metro station and rail interconnector on the corner of St Stephen's Green. This will make any new work such as contra flow cycle lanes irrelevant for the moment.The plan is for the whole area to become a very large pedestrian space with no vehicular access. Hopefully it will also be possible to include cycle lanes and more cycle parking for which as you say there is a big demand in the area.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54820880&postcount=15

kenmc

tomasrojo wrote: »

The "Except Cyclists" bit on the west is not a cycle track, and it drops you off into a one-way street, with you going the wrong way. .

Unless of course you turn left down glovers alley if travelling north, or right down york lane if travelling south. It's scary to see bikes coming down against traffic though when the luas empties out across the road in the mornings.

BostonB

tomasrojo wrote: »

Conversely, the only reason for the gyratory is to keep motorised traffic moving as smoothly as possible. There's no reason for bikes to be included in a huge one-way system....

They are excluded from the bus lane on the east side of the green too. Also excluded from the bus only bottom half of lesson street, despite it being a major cycling route out of the city center, and indeed, theres a ton of cyclists use both at peak.

tomasrojo

There seems to be a good case for minor changes to make the area more legally permeable to cyclists.

BostonB

Thats one of my main problems with these cycle lanes. They aren't really designed with any overall permeability plan for cyclists. I think theirs a case for them on cycle corridors similar to bus corridors. At the moment they start and stop with little or no logic.

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

They are excluded from the bus lane on the east side of the green too. Also excluded from the bus only bottom half of lesson street, despite it being a major cycling route out of the city center, and indeed, theres a ton of cyclists use both at peak.

I seem to remember that there is actually a cycle lane in the bus lane at the bottom of Leeson Street, but there's no legal way to get to it on a bicycle, since the bus lane on the east of the Green is bus-only.

rp

tomasrojo wrote: »

I seem to remember that there is actually a cycle lane in the bus lane at the bottom of Leeson Street, but there's no legal way to get to it on a bicycle, since the bus lane on the east of the Green is bus-only.

How is it bus only? I don't bus-only lanes exist, do they?

radiat

wow, that poll is neck and neck

radiat

rp wrote: »

How is it bus only? I don't bus-only lanes exist, do they?

contra flow bus lanes are bus only. Like on eden quay.

BostonB

tomasrojo wrote: »

I seem to remember that there is actually a cycle lane in the bus lane at the bottom of Leeson Street, but there's no legal way to get to it on a bicycle, since the bus lane on the east of the Green is bus-only.

There isn't. Its sign posted bus only. Theres no cycle markings, (other than a white line). At the canal end theres a faded cycle marking on the path. But you could assume then that only half of it is for bicycles.

Many cyclists come from Harcourt St direction too and turn up lesson st. (Dismounting to cross the pedestrian crossing at the bottom of Lesson St.)

You can do the same at Baggot St. Dismount and cross over. But Lesson st is much shorter route for many people. Otherwise you have to do a big loop to get back to Lesson St.

BostonB

rp wrote: »

How is it bus only? I don't bus-only lanes exist, do they?

A sign with a bus no bicycle is bus only. Theres one on Stephens green and the bottom of lesson st. Probably other places I dunno.

rp

BostonB wrote: »

A sign with a bus no bicycle is bus only. Theres one on Stephens green and the bottom of lesson st. Probably other places I dunno.

I've seen them, but they are just bike/bus lane signs with the bike painted out, I don't think they appear in the road traffic regs or have any legal basis at all. Bit like if you painted an extra zero on a 50km sign, and claimed the speed limit is 500kph...

galwaycyclist

rp wrote: »

I've seen them, but they are just bike/bus lane signs with the bike painted out, I don't think they appear in the road traffic regs or have any legal basis at all. Bit like if you painted an extra zero on a 50km sign, and claimed the speed limit is 500kph...

Unless its a contraflow bus lane the sign has no legal basis. The regulations specifically list pedal cycles as one of the vehicles that can use with-flow bus lanes.

BostonB

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Unless its a contraflow bus lane the sign has no legal basis. The regulations specifically list pedal cycles as one of the vehicles that can use with-flow bus lanes.

News to me. Must take a photo of it.

How about a no entry sign, with "except buses" sign beneath it?

galwaycyclist

BostonB wrote: »

News to me. Must take a photo of it.

How about a no entry sign, with "except buses" sign beneath it?

Yes that is provided for as is a version with "except cyclists" its in the 1998 Traffic Signs Regulations. Which means that since 1998, Irish Roads Authorities have had the power to provide cyclists with 2-way access to one-way streets.

lovelyoner

I voted no just to make it 50/50......

paddyandy

They speed past very closely sometimes while you're walking and not seeming to take account of the fact that you MIGHT turn suddenly on to their path .There is far too much leniency .

BostonB

BostonB wrote: »

News to me. Must take a photo of it.

How about a no entry sign, with "except buses" sign beneath it?

The sign on the bottom of Lesson Street is now as above. They must have changed at some point. Haven't gone past there in the last few months so didn't notice it.

coolbeans

The 'ayes' have it.

DaveyDave

Cyclists should be prosecuted for cycling on an off-road cycle path. I know I shouldn't use them but I somehow end up doing it anyway despite knowing they're all crap. Seriously though, the amount of people walking their dog in cycle paths or just walking in general is enough reason to not use them, never mind dead ends, broken glass and having to cross at a junction.

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

There isn't. Its sign posted bus only. Theres no cycle markings, (other than a white line). At the canal end theres a faded cycle marking on the path. But you could assume then that only half of it is for bicycles.

Yes, you're right. It looks as if there's a cycle lane at the Green end of Leeson Street, but it's just a narrow lane of uncertain provenance. No cycle-track sign, or even a bicycle painted inside the lane.

tomasrojo

These seem to be the bus-lane signs.

Only the contraflow officially omits the bicycle symbol from the sign.



The others have a bicycle symbol.

SasQuatch88

I think better wording for the pole would be "Should people who cycle DANGEROUSLY on footpaths be prosecuted"

Just sayin'