Which brands of Diesel and Petrol do you find best for quality and MPG ?

Monty.

No brand name / independent supplier / other

Any other brands missing from this poll ?

Figerty

volvoman480 wrote: »

Lads, I don't know whether one type of diesel or petrol is different from another or not, to be honest, I have no personal opinion either way. However, stand outside the refinery in Whitegate someday if you have a chance. One tanker after another coming out of there, any brand you care to mention, all of them filling from the same gantry. I know a number of lads driving for a couple of different fuel delivery outfits, the fuel is loaded from the same tanks. There is also a requirement for a percentage of the fuels these companies buy to be purchased from the refinery and not imported. It's more or less the same stuff. Anyone remember the old joint fuels terminal in Tivoli in Cork?? How many outfits were drawing out of that? I'm not saying that various companies don't add some additives to the fuel but I do know that the only way that some of them could do it is to give the driver a 5 gallon drum and tell him to pour it in on his way from Whitegate. To be fair, my opinions only come from my own experience and I stand open to correction.

I think you are correct on this. I used to know a lorry driver who picked up from Whitegate. I was told that the literally did what you said. Poured in the additives when the lorry was full. The idea being that when they got to the drop off point the mix had be agitated into the fuel like a two stroke mix.

Monty.

No brand name / independent supplier / other

Figerty wrote: »

I think you are correct on this. I used to know a lorry driver who picked up from Whitegate. I was told that the literally did what you said. Poured in the additives when the lorry was full. The idea being that when they got to the drop off point the mix had be agitated into the fuel like a two stroke mix.

Good info. So there can be a difference then.

Voodoomelon

That sounds so incredibly unprofessional, I don't know whether to believe it or not! Some lad climbing up to the top of his tanker and hurling a 5 gallon drum in. I'm lost... :P

MugMugs

Great Gas

Monty. wrote: »

TJJP wrote: »

Drivers urge action over laundered diesel

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0625/1224299585963.html

The customs need to start doing significant random testing on filling stations, and it doesn't take a genius to keep an eye on the tankers supplying them.

And why aren't they? Not Customs bashing here but they are well able to do VRT checkpoints and I get dipped at least once a month (if I am lucky) so why are they not out auditing these stations?

Figerty

Welcome the real world!

I visited a chewing gum factory once. Big mixing drum with a hopper above it. Guys standing at the top trowing bags of additives to the rubber....yes rubber.

Sometimes the bags are made from edible materials and they go in. I will say it was all hygenic and well regulated, but I haven't eaten chewing gum since!

We tend to think of things in nice clean sterile conditions, the reality is often far from this,

Voodoomelon wrote: »

That sounds so incredibly unprofessional, I don't know whether to believe it or not! Some lad climbing up to the top of his tanker and hurling a 5 gallon drum in. I'm lost... :P

cadaliac

Texaco

Figerty wrote: »

I think you are correct on this. I used to know a lorry driver who picked up from Whitegate. I was told that the literally did what you said. Poured in the additives when the lorry was full. The idea being that when they got to the drop off point the mix had be agitated into the fuel like a two stroke mix.

I have also heard this.
It is refined and distributed in the same form and additives are added by the lorry driver.

cpoh1

Theres a lot of misconceptions and heresay being spouted as fact on this thread, to clear things up:

All fuel in the republic of Ireland is E5 or 5% ethanol blend. The oil terminals in Dublin, limerick, cork and galway all supply regular 95 unleaded with 5% ethanol injected into the tanks of the fuel truck at the gantries. No exceptions. The only difference between Maxol, Texaco and Topaz are the additives they add, which are added at the gantry during truck fill up. Their 95 unleaded and ethanol all come from the same refinery in either Dublin or Cork, which is supplied by the same oversees supplier.

As a case study - All fuel in the south and west of ireland is supplied by 3 cities with oil terminals, cork, Dublin and Galway, via the refinery in whitegate. They all get the same fuel regardless of whether they are maxol or whatever. Maxol in galway use the topaz terminal and get the same 5% ethanol blend as Topaz but they dont get the specific topaz additives. Similarly with Emo, Top or any standalone petrol stations, they all get E5. The 5% ethanol blend is regularly quality tested and found to be usually less than 97RON. The additives make a big difference as to how the fuel burns and this is the difference people are seeing when they talk about benefits over other brands. In dublin and cork for example maxol have their own terminal and get the full benefit of their additives, whereas in limerick and galway maxol use topaz's terminal to get their fuel and dont get any additives - just 95 and 5% ethanol. This is the difference in quality people see.

The most important thing in my book is the condition of the petrol station you fill at, newer tanks and pumps along with a large throughput of cars is always my consideration followed by the brand and where their trucks are supplying the fuel from i.e. topaz trucks from topaz terminsals.


GaryITR - when did you do your tests with E5? The 5% ethanol blend has been in all irish fuel since last spring.

cpoh1

Figerty wrote: »

I think you are correct on this. I used to know a lorry driver who picked up from Whitegate. I was told that the literally did what you said. Poured in the additives when the lorry was full. The idea being that when they got to the drop off point the mix had be agitated into the fuel like a two stroke mix.

All drivers have a fuel card for their deliveries, when they swipe their card at the gantry it determines their recipe they are entitled to. A maxol truck at a topaz terminal will get a basic 95unleaded and 5% ethanol blend whereas the topaz truck will get a recipe with their additives injected during truck filling. So same terminal with different truck brands doesnt mean they get the exact same fuel. Just the same basic 95 unleaded.

Gary ITR

Tesco

cpoh1 wrote: »

GaryITR - when did you do your tests with E5? The 5% ethanol blend has been in all irish fuel since last spring.

We actually see it on a regular basis. Cars always make more power when running Maxol fuel

Midnight_EG

Tesco

Gary ITR wrote: »

We actually see it on a regular basis. Cars always make more power when running Maxol fuel

If you want, you can print of the comparison sheet for the 157bhp using Topaz and 163bhp from my car using CVL and Maxol E5 and post it here? Just block out my reg on it

cpoh1

Midnight_EG wrote: »

If you want, you can print of the comparison sheet for the 157bhp using Topaz and 163bhp from my car using CVL and Maxol E5 and post it here? Just block out my reg on it

A couple of things here:

CVL is a fuel additive/octane booster - you will get more power using this than standard unleaded with ethanol blend, thats a no brainer.

How did you test the car on a dyno? Did you run your tank empty and refill with the other fuel resetting your ecu? So many variables change the outputs from a car. How warm the engines running, the ambient air temperature etc. Unless the car went literally back to back with the fuel tank being drained and ecu reset its pretty meaningless (with all due respect).

Gary ITR wrote: »

We actually see it on a regular basis. Cars always make more power when running Maxol fuel

Only way to test and compare the different fuels effectively is in a lab I would say Gary. As well as the issues ive mentioned above with the dyno testing you also have to factor in the petrol stations used, with poor storage facilities and also the length of time the fuel can spend sitting there.

As i mentioned the 95 unleaded + 5% ethanol blend is the same for everyone in the country with roughly the same octane rating, the difference is that the additives companies add allows the car to burn leaner and more efficiently.

Vicxas

No brand name / independent supplier / other

I seem to get more MPG on Topaz fuel then I would on any other brand imo. Could be wishful thinking on my part tho.

Monty.

No brand name / independent supplier / other

cpoh1 wrote: »

Theres a lot of misconceptions and heresay being spouted as fact on this thread, to clear things up:

All fuel in the republic of Ireland is E5 or 5% ethanol blend. The oil terminals in Dublin, limerick, cork and galway all supply regular 95 unleaded with 5% ethanol injected into the tanks of the fuel truck at the gantries. No exceptions. The only difference between Maxol, Texaco and Topaz are the additives they add, which are added at the gantry during truck fill up. Their 95 unleaded and ethanol all come from the same refinery in either Dublin or Cork, which is supplied by the same oversees supplier.

As a case study - All fuel in the south and west of ireland is supplied by 3 cities with oil terminals, cork, Dublin and Galway, via the refinery in whitegate. They all get the same fuel regardless of whether they are maxol or whatever. Maxol in galway use the topaz terminal and get the same 5% ethanol blend as Topaz but they dont get the specific topaz additives. Similarly with Emo, Top or any standalone petrol stations, they all get E5. The 5% ethanol blend is regularly quality tested and found to be usually less than 97RON. The additives make a big difference as to how the fuel burns and this is the difference people are seeing when they talk about benefits over other brands. In dublin and cork for example maxol have their own terminal and get the full benefit of their additives, whereas in limerick and galway maxol use topaz's terminal to get their fuel and dont get any additives - just 95 and 5% ethanol. This is the difference in quality people see.

The most important thing in my book is the condition of the petrol station you fill at, newer tanks and pumps along with a large throughput of cars is always my consideration followed by the brand and where their trucks are supplying the fuel from i.e. topaz trucks from topaz terminsals.

Top answer and hats off to Cpoh1. This is the type of info I was interested in when I started the thread.

Would you have similar detailed info for us about diesel suppliers and additives in Ireland ?

Also, I take it once dosed, the fuel trucks deliver direct to the filling stations ? In the UK do the large companies also use this "dose the fuel truck at the shared oil terminal" system ?

Gary ITR

Tesco

cpoh1 wrote: »

Only way to test and compare the different fuels effectively is in a lab I would say Gary. As well as the issues ive mentioned above with the dyno testing you also have to factor in the petrol stations used, with poor storage facilities and also the length of time the fuel can spend sitting there.

As i mentioned the 95 unleaded + 5% ethanol blend is the same for everyone in the country with roughly the same octane rating, the difference is that the additives companies add allows the car to burn leaner and more efficiently.

We ran a car on Saturday, it made 210 running E5, if we run that car in January given the same fuel from the same station it will make 210 again. The Dyno allows for Temps etc. It's actually quite consistent regardless of the weather, this I have seen on my own car. I have no definitive answers but we do see the difference between fuel.

Is it possible that whatever additives are being used by the various companies are what makes the difference? I have used Topaz fuel a few times since being tuned and on Wide Open Throttle I get a check light for knock.

mm_surf

cpoh1 wrote: »

GaryITR - when did you do your tests with E5? The 5% ethanol blend has been in all irish fuel since last spring.

Any source for that? All I can find in relation to E5 in Irish fuel is from Maxol & Applegreen. Topaz still refers to theirs being 95 RON & Texaco mentions bugger all.

mm_surf

Gary ITR wrote: »

The Dyno allows for Temps etc. It's actually quite consistent regardless of the weather, this I have seen on my own car.

You sure onthe temp correction? I've not come across one that does that automatically - is it from software? Different engines will respond differently to temp changes, which is why I ask.

Gary ITR wrote: »

Is it possible that whatever additives are being used by the various companies are what makes the difference? I have used Topaz fuel a few times since being tuned and on Wide Open Throttle I get a check light for knock.

For me, this would be the biggest indication of a difference in petrol - knock detection isn't difficult, and is pretty accurate.

In theory, detergents reducing/removing coking in the cylinder should improve flame front progression & reduce pre-detonation - without affecting RON.

M.

mossy2390

a couple of months ago ingear the supplement in the times they tested standard tesco unleaded, bp ultimate, shell standard which is now a special fuel saver and some expensive tesco one.
they tested them all for mpg and the shell was the best at 12.5p per mile, tesco stnadard was next at 12.9p per mile, tesco momentum was 13.7p per mile and bp ultimate was the worst at 14.4p per mile.

i know this only has a few brands basically testing the the more expensive fuels against the standard version, interesting to see a actually test on them tho

Max Power1

mossy2390 wrote: »

a couple of months ago ingear the supplement in the times they tested standard tesco unleaded, bp ultimate, shell standard which is now a special fuel saver and some expensive tesco one.
they tested them all for mpg and the shell was the best at 12.5p per mile, tesco stnadard was next at 12.9p per mile, tesco momentum was 13.7p per mile and bp ultimate was the worst at 14.4p per mile.

i know this only has a few brands basically testing the the more expensive fuels against the standard version, interesting to see a actually test on them tho

/facepalm

Gary ITR

Tesco

mm_surf wrote: »

You sure onthe temp correction? I've not come across one that does that automatically - is it from software? Different engines will respond differently to temp changes, which is why I ask.

Positive dude, most dyno's do the same, some operators in this country fiddle with temp probes to give falsely high figures though. Please don't ask who because I'm not naming names

mm_surf

Gary ITR wrote: »

Positive dude, most dyno's do the same, some operators in this country fiddle with temp probes to give falsely high figures though. Please don't ask who because I'm not naming names

Interesting. Can you PM me the make/model of the one you use?

Midnight_EG

Tesco

mm_surf wrote: »

Interesting. Can you PM me the make/model of the one you use?

It's a Dyno Dynamics they use!

mm_surf

Midnight_EG wrote: »

It's a Dyno Dynamics they use!

Model?

Intake temp @ probe =\= intake temp @ manifold

[waaaay off topic & kinda nerdy stuff this. Greasy nerdy though!]

Midnight_EG

Tesco

mm_surf wrote: »

Model?

Intake temp @ probe =\= intake temp @ manifold

[waaaay off topic & kinda nerdy stuff this. Greasy nerdy though!]

450DS I'd assume, I think everyone who uses Dyno Dynamics in Ireland runs that one?

mm_surf

Midnight_EG wrote: »

450DS I'd assume, I think everyone who uses Dyno Dynamics in Ireland runs that one?

That uses a clip in temp probe on the intake, not a MAF/Hotwire?

Midnight_EG

Tesco

mm_surf wrote: »

That uses a clip in temp probe on the intake, not a MAF/Hotwire?

Then it's the TR I'd assume so :P

Monty.

No brand name / independent supplier / other

Topaz give the following info about their additives :

Both Topaz Unleaded and Topaz Diesel contain advanced additives that are designed to both clean up and maintain fuel injection systems and provide protection against harmful corrosion. These benefits can lead to increased engine efficiency of up to 3% and a reduction in CO2 emissions. www.topaz.ie/TopazFuels/

Texaco

Techron, is a patented ingredient that helps keep vital engine parts clean and which is now being added to all petrol sold through Texaco-branded service stations in the Republic of Ireland at no additional cost to motorists. http://www.texaco.ie/news_oct06.htm

Can't find any info about Maxol's additives

mossy2390

Max Power1 wrote: »

/facepalm

problem?

Max Power1

mossy2390 wrote: »

problem?

with your face!


And your use of MPG and PPL interchangeably, disregarding the variable elements in your measurements rendering them ridiculously innaccurate.

mossy2390

Max Power1 wrote: »

with your face!


And your use of MPG and PPL interchangeably, disregarding the variable elements in your measurements rendering them ridiculously innaccurate.

im sure you knew what i meant regardless so what was the need in the smart ass comment?
they tested the fuels for economy, taking the mpg that each got and working back on the price of the fuel as there all different brands so all different prices, price of the petrol is just as important as the actual mpg it gives
also seeing as you cant read they were not my measurements they were the people at ingear that did them so me putting down the word mpg instead of the word economy makes no difference what so ever to the results