Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

IanVW

Was at todays game and from a Waterford point of view am i the only one to get so frustrated by watching maurice shanahan play with his aimless solos towards goal, Seems to be alot of selfish players not willing to handpass to someone in a better position..?

Mountainlad

Deise_Davy wrote: »

I don't know how you saw Tony Kelly playing today as he isn't even on the Clare panel

Who was no.25? Fairly sure I heard 'well done Kelly' when he made a block at one stage, and he was of similar build. Wasn't listed in the programme.

Deise Doodler

IanVW wrote: »

Was at todays game and from a Waterford point of view am i the only one to get so frustrated by watching maurice shanahan play with his aimless solos towards goal, Seems to be alot of selfish players not willing to handpass to someone in a better position..?

Not sure if its selfish play, Have a feeling that maurice dosent have the greatest vision when traveling with the ball, also our support play and off the ball running left a lot to be desired today, plenty of work to be done, still on a positive note we did score four goals and should have had at least one more even though we did'nt play well , making goals is something we havent been doing in a long time

Mountainlad

Dickys Back Garden wrote: »

Very poor Waterford performance. On selection, why was Christy Ryan not even tried at full back today? We all know what Declan Prendergast is capable of but Ryan was, (at least according to local newspapers team of the year!) the best full back in the county last year! And he is still only 24 or 25 I believe so might be worth a decent run. And was Brian O'Halloran togged out? Also surely he would have benefited hugely from a run here. I know he played the last game but he needs games to restore confidence as he is an undoubted talent.

Clare were streets ahead in terms of being ready for this game. There was a freshness and enthusiasm about them that was seriously lacking in Waterford's play. Every time a Clare man was in posession he sought to keep posession by means of a handpass or an intelligent ball played in in front of a moving team mate. Waterford's players continuously hit the ball blindly and without purpose. When Clare dropped their midfielder in a "sweeper" like role Waterford's answer was to drop their corner forward into their own half back line to counteract this! And Waterford were chasing the game at this juncture???

And why was Shane Walsh even playing today? He went off with what looks like a serious enough injury and he is the main scoring threat for Waterford IT who have a do or die Fitzgibbon game on Tuesday against UCD? Very harsh on the lad, and indeed the college. Would I be wrong in saying that the reason Paudie and Philip Mahony, Darragh Fives and Brian O'Sullivan weren't playing was because of their UCC commitments?

And this parochial paranoia by some here is childish and serves no purpose. It's actually an insult to what I assume are intelligent people running the team and picking it. And if I'm not mistaken Michael Ryan is actually from the West of the county and is surely not naive enough to base his selections on "who shouts loudest!" Where was this "shouting" that a contributor speaks of done? Here? Don't flatter yourself with delusions of the importance of comments on here.

Today got me thinking though. I wonder were the efforts and approaches of Davy Fitz a little under valued during his time in Waterford. Its only February, early days yet and I suppose only time will tell.

There are far more people who talk about Waterford hurling than those that post on this page, and you do hear what people have to say if you ask! Politics is evident in every county, and it's alive and well in Waterford by the looks of things. I'm not saying that some of the players that are playing don't deserve a chance, some of them I actually like and would hope they would produce. What I do have a problem with however is a player being favoured over another because of his club and maybe you disagree, which is fair enough, but I think I saw evidence of that today. I would also not doubt the intelligence of Michael Ryan, at the end of the race I decided to support him at the end of the race but I can't get my head around some players being on the panel if they're not going to even be tried.

As for Christy Ryan, didn't see much of him at club level as I only saw Mount Sion once last year and that was a league match, but he was pretty poor last week. That said, he was an option and you can't judge a player off one game.

As for Shane Walsh, didn't think it looked that serious, he might be laid off for a while and miss this weeks game if that's what you mean. He may have made himself available for this game like you wouldn't know.

PTH2009

Our hurling league fixtures.

Sat 25th Feb- Vs Cork in Cork
Sun 11th Mar- Vs Kilkenny in Walsh Park
Sun 18th Mar- Vs Tipperary in Thurles
Sun 25th Mar- Vs Galway in Galway
Sun 1st Apr- vs Dublin in Walsh Park

We could be in for some hammerings if we dont get our act together. The story is if we finish in 5th or 6th place we have to play a playoff and the loser will play in Divison 1B for 2013.

Mountainlad

Deise Doodler wrote: »

Not sure if its selfish play, Have a feeling that maurice dosent have the greatest vision when traveling with the ball, also our support play and off the ball running left a lot to be desired today, plenty of work to be done, still on a positive note we did score four goals and should have had at least one more even though we did'nt play well , making goals is something we havent been doing in a long time

I like that Maurice is running at the opposition defence, and it's a sure way to create more goals. He was unlucky with the handpass to Brick just messed it up, and also unlucky in the second half to get a bad handpass from Brick.

Cake Man

Very disappointed with todays result and performance, after 10mins we just stopped playing. I think the only players to come out with some credit were Shane Fives, Dec Prender and Shane Walsh. Martin O'Neill did get two goals and a few points but was generally poor enough, too many players just weren't able to win their own ball. I know conditions were bad but Clare were able to adapt.

Why did we persist lobbing in ball to a two man FF line when the spare Clare sweeper was always on hand to mop up? And the spare man we used outfield (Eoin McGrath) was up to nothing.
Why was Dean Twomey not moved to midfield, he was lost at wing forward.

Mostly disappointed as there were plenty of first team players and it wasn't hugely experimental. Agree with previous posters asking what the benefit was playing fellas that we know about (EMcG, Dec Prender at full back etc.) and only make 2 subs (1 forced), just made no sense.

Dickys Back Garden

Mountainlad wrote: »

There are far more people who talk about Waterford hurling than those that post on this page, and you do hear what people have to say if you ask! Politics is evident in every county, and it's alive and well in Waterford by the looks of things. I'm not saying that some of the players that are playing don't deserve a chance, some of them I actually like and would hope they would produce. What I do have a problem with however is a player being favoured over another because of his club and maybe you disagree, which is fair enough, but I think I saw evidence of that today. I would also not doubt the intelligence of Michael Ryan, at the end of the race I decided to support him at the end of the race but I can't get my head around some players being on the panel if they're not going to even be tried.

As for Christy Ryan, didn't see much of him at club level as I only saw Mount Sion once last year and that was a league match, but he was pretty poor last week. That said, he was an option and you can't judge a player off one game.

As for Shane Walsh, didn't think it looked that serious, he might be laid off for a while and miss this weeks game if that's what you mean. He may have made himself available for this game like you wouldn't know.

Just curious but where did you think the club allegiances were in evidence today?

Mountainlad

Dickys Back Garden wrote: »

Just curious but where did you think the club allegiances were in evidence today?

I think the answer to my question was in my initial post

suitcasepink

Think they announced Waterford are playing Limerick in a Charity Challenge game in Fraher field Saturday week at 7, but the sound was so dreadful Im not 100%


Dont even know how to comment on todays game, it was pathetic. Even Davy didnt get excited by it, sitting quietly as if he was watching cricket..

Mountainlad

deise_girl wrote: »

Think they announced Waterford are playing Limerick in a Charity Challenge game in Fraher field Saturday week at 7, but the sound was so dreadful Im not 100%


Dont even know how to comment on todays game, it was pathetic. Even Davy didnt get excited by it, sitting quietly as if he was watching cricket..

They are, it's for the teams training fund not for charity.

Dickys Back Garden

Mountainlad wrote: »

I think the answer to my question was in my initial post

?? Which one was your "initial" post? Was it the last one? If so forgive me but can't spot where you say it.

suitcasepink

Mountainlad wrote: »

They are, it's for the teams training fund not for charity.

Close nuff, we're like a charity case at this stage :pac:

Mountainlad

Dickys Back Garden wrote: »

?? Which one was your "initial" post? Was it the last one? If so forgive me but can't spot where you say it.

The one you initially took me up on.

Mountainlad

deise_girl wrote: »

Close nuff, we're like a charity case at this stage :pac:

I was wondering who'd be the first to roll out that desperate joke :rolleyes::p:D

Dickys Back Garden

Mountainlad wrote: »

The one you initially took me up on.

Oh right Ted! Can you give me a clue, still can't find it and cryptic clues were never my strong point! Is it "City boys" as you call them?

Mountainlad

Dickys Back Garden wrote: »

Oh right Ted! Can you give me a clue, still can't find it and cryptic clues were never my strong point! Is it "City boys" as you call them?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

By the way if you think I'm going to get sucked into an argument over this you're mistaken. I said the irony of people claiming parochialism that would no doubt have no qualms with it in reverse, but it's not parochialism, it's politics keeping those people happy.

What did you make of the lack of use of what was on the bench today? These players get limited opportunities to prove themselves and another opportunity passed by today. We have a lot of players away on college duty and injured, so these boys are basically being told there services aren't required but thanks for togging out two Sundays in a row and freezing yerselves for no reason anyway.

teednab-el

Sorry guys, I haven't been up to speed with Mullane departure out of the Waterford panel, so I said I'd drop in here to enquire. I haven't read the newspapers properly as I've been working late shifts, apologies, Is he due back to play with Waterford in 2012? It would be a massive blow to have a Waterford team without Mullane. A fine hurler probably Waterfords best and would make any intercounty team in Ireland.

Mountainlad

teednab-el wrote: »

Sorry guys, I haven't been up to speed with Mullane departure out of the Waterford panel, so I said I'd drop in here to enquire. I haven't read the newspapers properly as I've been working late shifts, apologies, Is he due back to play with Waterford in 2012? It would be a massive blow to have a Waterford team without Mullane. A fine hurler probably Waterfords best and would make any intercounty team in Ireland.

Yeah he should be back in several weeks.

Dickys Back Garden

Mountainlad wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

By the way if you think I'm going to get sucked into an argument over this you're mistaken. I said the irony of people claiming parochialism that would no doubt have no qualms with it in reverse, but it's not parochialism, it's politics keeping those people happy.

What did you make of the lack of use of what was on the bench today? These players get limited opportunities to prove themselves and another opportunity passed by today. We have a lot of players away on college duty and injured, so these boys are basically being told there services aren't required but thanks for togging out two Sundays in a row and freezing yerselves for no reason anyway.

You are indeed a strange man! I never intended an argument but I simply asked a question about something you said! Maybe I was going to agree with you if you could substantiate your claims-though I doubt it! I agree completely about the lack of use of the bench but maybe Ryan was afraid to use it in case some other chap accused him of blind parochialism!

I take it you are not going to specify your interpretation of "club allegiances" on view and who was guilty of such leanings so I'll hit the hay. I think you place way too much stock in the idea of a "city v country" divide and your references to it create an issue where I don't believe one exists!

teednab-el

Mountainlad wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

Sorry guys, I haven't been up to speed with Mullane departure out of the Waterford panel, so I said I'd drop in here to enquire. I haven't read the newspapers properly as I've been working late shifts, apologies, Is he due back to play with Waterford in 2012? It would be a massive blow to have a Waterford team without Mullane. A fine hurler probably Waterfords best and would make any intercounty team in Ireland.

Yeah he should be back in several weeks.

Cheers,

It will be good to see him back playing again and especially when championship kicks off.

Mountainlad

Dickys Back Garden wrote: »

You are indeed a strange man! I never intended an argument but I simply asked a question about something you said! Maybe I was going to agree with you if you could substantiate your claims-though I doubt it! I agree completely about the lack of use of the bench but maybe Ryan was afraid to use it in case some other chap accused him of blind parochialism!

I take it you are not going to specify your interpretation of "club allegiances" on view and who was guilty of such leanings so I'll hit the hay. I think you place way too much stock in the idea of a "city v country" divide and your references to it create an issue where I don't believe one exists!

Maybe not, but I don't know you and it wouldn't be a first for petty arguments to arise on these forums.

You have eluded to a very interesting point, which is in fact the basis for my entire argument. I think Ryan may already be afraid of being accused of blind pariochalism, because he already has. Why were four new members of his club intorduced to the panel, and then when a 'competitive' game comes around not given an opportunity to show what they're made of? I think it's because he's taken heat over including them. I can't really explain why other subs weren't given an opportunity today though.

By the way, you have club allegiances in inverted commas despite the fact that I never once used those words, and I'm also not accusing Michael Ryan of favouring his own. I'm in fact saying the opposite. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he sees these past two games as just another challenge match, and therefore feels that each game is weighted the same and so players performances will be judged at the same level and no extra merit given to the competition. But I would have to say I doubt that given the relative strength of the teams named and fielded.

Also, just to be perfectly clear, I'm all for players getting a chance to prove themselves, just as long as everybody gets that opportunity. Wouldn't you agree?

duggan170693

does anyone know if peter duggan was playing and how he played

Giveitfong

Not only was this game a farce, from a Waterford point of view, but it is beginning to look as though our new selectors are a farce too. If they weren’t bothered about winning this game (and that’s the way it looked) they could have told us in advance, so that the thousand or so people who turned up could have saved themselves the €10 admission fee and cost of getting to the game.

There has been no apparent sense of purpose in the selection of teams in the Crystal Cup and pre-season challenges. There has been no systematic rotation of players so that all available players on the panel could get a decent chance in their best positions. Instead, some established players have played in all the games, while some squad members have hardly figured at all.

Several players are on the panel and getting games although it should be obvious by now that they are not fit for championship hurling. Michael Ryan has been criticised for having a number of Fourmilewater players on the panel, although we have seen very little of them. Yet it seems to me that there are a lot of Mount Sion and De La Salle players in the squad who have no business being there.

What has Eoin McGrath done to deserve a place on the panel, never mind on the team? What particular function is he supposed to perform? He played the entire game today, first at corner forward, then at midfield, then at left half forward - all to no effect, while young players with potential were left on the sideline.

From what I have seen, Dean Twomey is nowhere near the level required in terms of technique or ball control. He was eventually replaced by another De La Salle player, Paudie Nevin, who in my view is not up to intercounty standard either.

I have nothing against Mount Sion or De La Salle, but there are much better players than those mentioned who are not getting a look in. Clare had four of last year’s minor team playing today, and all played well. Waterford have had three good minor teams in the last three years, yet only one player from these teams (Martin O’Neill) played today. Why, when the team was doing so badly today, were only two substitutes used (and even then, one was an enforced substitution) while Clare used four substitutes?

Some of the tactics employed today defied comprehension. Waterford used a three-man midfield in the second half, even though they were chasing the game. This left them with a two-man full forward line of Shane Walsh and Martin O’Neill, neither of whom is blessed with pace. They were being marked by three pacy defenders, so predictably most of the ball that came in came straight back out again.

Waterford eventually reverted to an orthodox forward layout with Seamus Prendergast moving to full forward and, hey presto, they scored three goals and brought two excellent saves from the Clare goalie. And this without any presence on the left wing, where the Clare right half back was cleaning up on Eoin McGrath. At least Maurice Shanahan was winning loads of ball on the other wing, and he worked his socks off, even though his use of the ball wasn’t the most productive.

A couple of statistics from the game. Waterford got two points from play (both by Shane Walsh); Clare got thirteen. Three Waterford players scored from play (Martin O’Neill and Seamus Prendergast got two goals each); the corresponding figure for Clare was ten.

Tony Kelly came on for Clare wearing No, 25 and scored a peach of a long range point.

Finally, congratulations to Dungarvan CBS, who beat Clonmel CBS in the semi-final of the Munster Colleges Senior B competition on Saturday, despite being short a lot of players due to injuries and suspensions.

Mountainlad

Deise_Davy wrote: »

I don't know how you saw Tony Kelly playing today as he isn't even on the Clare panel

Mountainlad wrote: »

Who was no.25? Fairly sure I heard 'well done Kelly' when he made a block at one stage, and he was of similar build. Wasn't listed in the programme.

Giveitfong wrote: »

Tony Kelly came on for Clare wearing No, 25 and scored a peach of a long range point.

Ole, ole ole ole...

Agree with just about everything Giveitfong has said, though I do like Dean Twomey as a player and think he's good enough, just hasn't done it in the past two games.

hardybuck

From the moment I arrived at Walsh Park yesterday, things were disorganised. The ticket sellers couldn't sell adult and student/OAP tickets together, and €10 for a game at that level is absolutely fleecing punters.

Although it was probably one of the worst games I've seen in a couple of years, I'm glad I went as I had to see it with my own eyes. I think many of the others have reported in detail, so I'll be brief:

Tactics - disaster. Two man full foward line at one point with two small men in there, and we lumped high ball in there. As mentioned S.Prender went in and improved things. Too much aimless ball into a forward line that looked incapable of winning any type of possession.

Selection: Baffled at the lack of subs, especially as things were going so badly. I think Twomey and Nevin are worth a look. I believe Nevin is a similar player to Molumphy, who has been very average over the last couple of years in my opinion. Worth persisting with as his workrate is excellent. I think Twomey has all the raw material to push on at intercounty level, but perhaps does not have the temperment.

Eoin McGrath - why is he still there? Fair enough if he was a young lad who might have potential, but he isn't.

Defence - overall they did ok. Power really let the side down with the late goal he let in though.

Midfield - nobody in there showed anything. Nothing unusual there for Waterford

Forwards - Poor movement and interplay. Players were often bunched like U12s. Maurice Shanahan in particular wasted a lot of possession, and missed a few frees. O'Neill will appear to have played a stormer going by his scores, but he was quiet overall - but still better than most in fairness.

Clare were very accurate, and the game reminded me of the 2011 Munster Minor final in many ways.

I'd be worried for Waterford. There isn't any room for error in the league, and we could easily find ourselves in Division 2 and all that goes with it in 2013.

Brad1234

When i looked at the team yesterday it didnt inspire me with a lot of believe to be honest.

On Nevin he is no molomphy.. He doesnt have the physique of stevie nor does he like it hot and heavy.. he drifts in and out of games picks up a lot of lose ball nip over a point then you mightin see him for 20 mins.

Twomey i always like as a hurler but not at intercounty level, he can only strike off 1 side and loves everything going forward and nothing going backwards..

I think everyone has said all they needed to say on Eoin Mac, Feel sorry for the lad as no one in waterford would turn down the call but maybe the call shouldnt be made anymore..

Here's a thought we have had 3 decent minor teams over last few years and very little plucked from it bar big name guys that were actually pretty poor for the minors in their time..

Also Ballygunner have been cleaning up underage and are senior champs yet none of their players getting a look in and i believe Young o Keeffe the keeper has been playing corner forward in training!! (for me he is best keeper in waterford but seems to be tarnished by a mistake he made in munster semi)

This is just an observation and nothing to do with club bias as i dont have a club

gammon_steak

The lack of subs was very frustrating. We were already beaten so why not let them have a go? The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to see could they battle on to the end and develop that Davy attitude of 'never say die' but that's being generous to the management!

Power made a bad mistake and doesn't seem to have sorted out his biggest flaw and the one thing keeping him off the team.

Defence did ok although nothing special. Declan and Nagle were good in spurts but fell asleep at other times.

I thought Paul O'Brien in midfield put in a good effort and may have potential.

Very disappointed to see the two man full forward line again. This was something Davy was heavily critiscised for and I had hoped Michael Ryan would be more of a traditional hurling man. The answer is not crowding the middle but getting the right people there in the first place.

Seamus was our best forward I thought and I'm not his biggest fan over the last few years. If Maurice can learn to use the ball better he'll be a handful.

Our biggest challenge for 2012 is to stay in Division 1. It's early days yet though and come the summer we may be in a Munster final and looking to the future. Come on the Déise!

Giveitfong

My apologies, I was wrongly informed. The Kelly who came on for Clare yesterday was Patrick, not Tony. My information now is that Tony, who was the star of the Clare minor hurlers over the last two years, was invited onto the senior panel but opted to return to school to repeat the Leaving Cert. This means that Clare only had three of last year's minors on the team yesterday.

Mountainlad

My apologies too, to Deise Davy so To be fair, you could understand the misunderstanding.

While I would like to see Stephen O'Keeffe (goalkeeper) get a run, everybody else from Ballygunner is unavailable.

David and Brian O'Sullivan, Philip and Paudie Mahony and the other Stephen O'Keeffe are tied up with colleges and Wayne Hutchison is injured. I don't really rate their full back line so there isn't really anyone else you'd bring on to the panel.

I wouldn't be too harsh on Power he made a couple of good interventions and it didn't cost them the game by any means. He does need to work on that aspect of his game though because it's the reason he hasn't been Waterford keeper the last 2 years.