Over 21

stargazer 68

Hey folks

Just wondering if anyone knows why some pubs and clubs have an over 21 rule when the drinking age is 18? Now I know there is no point in arguing that point with them at the door but I assume its because they dont want teenagers but can they enforce it?

mackg

because people in their twenties don't want to spend their nights out getting puked on by teenagers

Mint Sauce

Yes they can enforce it. Management have right to refuse admission.

Were you refused last night OP?

Fago!

I assumed because some places have a crowd that are deemed too mature for under 21s to come into. or something.

Napper Hawkins

There should be a lot more over 25 establishments imo.

listermint

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

There should be a lot more over 25 establishments imo.

But then how how would we look at all the hot 21 year old ass ?

As far as I know they're not allowed do that. You can't argue at the door because they'll just refuse admission on a general being a cnut basis.

But when their license is up and they apply for a new one you can put in a complaint saying you were refused admission with proper I.D (on the grounds that you weren't 21) they'll have a bit of grief with their license then.

Nobody does it... that's why they get away with it all the time. Not all of us 18-20 year olds are slobbering idiots either.

stargazer 68

irish-stew wrote: »

Yes they can enforce it. Management have right to refuse admission.

Were you refused last night OP?

Lol thanks but Im WELL over 21! I was just wondering. Having a party at the weekend (area booked in a pub) and a couple of people going are 19 - I doubt they will have any problem but you never know.

KylieWyley

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I know they're not allowed do that. You can't argue at the door because they'll just refuse admission on a general being a cnut basis.

But when their license is up and they apply for a new one you can put in a complaint saying you were refused admission with proper I.D (on the grounds that you weren't 21) they'll have a bit of grief with their license then.

it's a private premises dude. right of admission is reserved. they can refuse you if they wish.

Dovies wrote: »

Lol thanks but Im WELL over 21! I was just wondering. Having a party at the weekend (area booked in a pub) and a couple of people going are 19 - I doubt they will have any problem but you never know.

they should be fine. if there's an issue, they can just say "i'm with X's birthday party" and any manager with a bit of cop will flex the rules and let them in, i would think.

pubs generally decide to go over 21 if they want a maturer clientele but if they agree to host your party then they would have to accept all your mates, no matter how much of a ****head teenager they may be

Fago!

Dovies wrote: »

Lol thanks but Im WELL over 21! I was just wondering. Having a party at the weekend (area booked in a pub) and a couple of people going are 19 - I doubt they will have any problem but you never know.

Didn't invite us ya ****.

veryangryman

KylieWyley wrote: »

it's a private premises dude. right of admission is reserved. they can refuse you if they wish.

Last i checked, the word pub indicated public house but what do i know...

stargazer 68

Fago! wrote: »

Didn't invite us ya ****.

Sorry - if I pull I will let you know though!

Fago!

Dovies wrote: »

Sorry - if I pull I will let you know though!

That's better!

Napper Hawkins

listermint wrote: »

But then how how would we look at all the hot 21 year old ass ?

Because women stop being hot once they hit 25?

biko

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Because women stop being hot once they hit 25?

As you get older you'll realise that's not true.

Fago!

biko wrote: »

As you get older you'll realise that's not true.

The man speaks the truth. it turns into milf territory after 25-30.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

irish-stew wrote: »

Yes they can enforce it. Management have right to refuse admission.

Were you refused last night OP?

Wrong...

Napper Hawkins

biko wrote: »

As you get older you'll realise that's not true.

Why are you telling me? I'm 27. I know full well 25 plus is awesome.

stargazer 68

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Why are you telling me? I'm 27. I know full well 25 plus is awesome.

43 is even Awesomer!!

jester77

I always wonder why people kick up such a fuss about this. If all pubs tried to enforce this rule then I would understand, but there are plenty of options for the younger legal crowd. Over here a lot of place regularly have U30 and U40 nights. Great way to mingle with people around your own age that share similar interests.

Conall Cernach

How does bouncers at the door refusing admission etc. square with the whole "public" house deal? Aren't they supposed to let you in unless they have a very good reason not to?

streings

Can anyone explain why they are allowed refuse you for being too young, but not for being too old? Tis the same idea no?

OldGoat

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

There should be a lot more over 25 establishments imo.

Over 35 would be even better.

Napper Hawkins

OldGoat wrote: »

Over 35 would be even better.

I agree! Every age group should have somewhere they can go without having to put up with younger folk if they so wish.

veryangryman

Fago! wrote: »

The man speaks the truth. it turns into milf territory after 25-30.

+1 :D:D

veryangryman

streings wrote: »

Can anyone explain why they are allowed refuse you for being too young, but not for being too old? Tis the same idea no?

I really hope your under 18 for saying something so daft..

Older people generally have a head on shoulders so dont puke on seats or shag in the jacks etc.

Hmm maybe they should be barred on that count!

SteelyDanJalapeno

There should be a club where its over 21 for males and over 18's for females

WoollyRedHat

OldGoat wrote: »

Over 35 would be even better.

And have all you whippersnappers with your crap singing and beer spilling?!?

Make it over 50's I say, you young people are loud, and abprutorous!

leggo

Any private premises that trades opens its doors to the public as an 'invitation to trade'. That can be withdrawn at any stage. That is the catch-all fallback for retailers, publicans etc to refuse admission.

What they can't do is discriminate, on the basis of age, race and so on.

So if you were to approach a bar that clearly advertises over-18's only (alternatively, you could technically get away with if it doesn't advertise a higher minimum age), were told that you were too young as they only accept over-21's, then you would have a case that you were discriminated against on the basis of age. What you could actually do about it is another story (two things: little and nothing). But technically there is a case there and repeated complaints of discrimination, as stated by one poster, could lead to their licence being called into question when up for renewal.

However, if the policy of the bar is to only allow over 21's, they are clearly stating who they are inviting to trade within the premises. And that is their right.

Storminateacup

The nightclub worth going to in my ****ty town is over 21s on sat night and over 18s the rest of the time.

On Saturday night they never enforce the over 21s rule unless they don't like the look of you

Chairman Meow

Because alot of people dont want to drink with irritating teenagers?

Logical Fallacy

Drew Yellow Tuba wrote: »

Wrong...

It's not wrong, once it's submitted as a House Rule when they are applying for a license they can have any age limit they wish.

They are also required to show a copy of the House Rules at the front door, along with the prices of all products that they sell but how many places do you see doing that?

OldGoat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

And have all you whippersnappers with your crap singing and beer spilling?!?

Make it over 50's I say, you young people are loud, and abprutorous!

I left it at 35 so that there would be some youngsters around to open doors for me, fetch my pint from the bar, run to the shops for my tobacco, provide eye candy...:)

Master and commander

i guess its becasue they don't want grubby teenagers who just turned 18 coming in and getting ****faced and casuing a ruccus puking all over the place to the detriment of the rest of the more mature customers.

You'll understand when you a little older i suppose.

Yes they can do it. It a privately owned premesis, they can refuse you if they damn well want to.

stargazer 68

Master and commander wrote: »

You'll understand when you a little older i suppose.

Guess you havent read the whole thread!! :D

listermint

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Because women stop being hot once they hit 25?

No No, But why are you limiting my ass wrangling, They're all hot.

Adyx

Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003.

(4) If—


(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years,


(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and


(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,


a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground.

Hannibal Smith

KylieWyley wrote: »

it's a private premises dude. right of admission is reserved. they can refuse you if they wish.

It's a public house

darklighter

"the policy is implemented in good faith" is where they can be caught out.

In MY experience, most places with an age policy only apply it to males and generally let girls under that age limit (& under 18 which is a total different story) in without checking ID.

If you really want to make life difficult for an establishment, video who there letting in for a couple of nights and then object when there licence is up for renewal.

TBH, it would be an awful lot of hassle and you wudnt get much luck out of a judge as the licensee would just say it wont happen again

leggo

darklighter wrote: »

"the policy is implemented in good faith" is where they can be caught out.

In MY experience, most places with an age policy only apply it to males and generally let girls under that age limit (& under 18 which is a total different story) in without checking ID.

If you really want to make life difficult for an establishment, video who there letting in for a couple of nights and then object when there licence is up for renewal.

TBH, it would be an awful lot of hassle and you wudnt get much luck out of a judge as the licensee would just say it wont happen again

Never mind the fact that it's illegal to film someone without their permission.

darklighter

Not true.

You have no expectation of privacy in a public place.

I've been on TV a number of times without my permission been asked.

df1985

Loads of places in Dublin are over 21's, few places over 23's.

leggo

darklighter wrote: »

Not true.

You have no expectation of privacy in a public place.

I've been on TV a number of times without my permission been asked.

You think it's admissible in court, or in any kind of official capacity, to film bouncers doing their job?

There's a difference in having your face in the background of a piece on SixOne or in a sports event to sticking a camera in someone's face while they're in their place of work with the intent of making a potentially damaging claim. If you think otherwise your research of this law needs to involve more than just thinking "Well they got away with it there so I'm sure if I do (something comparable but completely different) then it HAS TO BE legal..."

Wile E. Coyote

darklighter wrote: »

If you really want to make life difficult for an establishment, video who there letting in for a couple of nights and then object when there licence is up for renewal.

Your video evidence wouldn't prove a thing. You'd still need to provide the name and DOB for everyone who was let in the door on the night.

Big Nasty

It's perfectly legal to have a 21's / 25's policy once you have a sign on the door saying same.

It's normally used in places that want an older clientele and / or to use as a tool to blank undesireables.

Rob32

I work in a pub and the reason for it is simply so they can refuse younger people if they dont like the look of them, its an easy legal excuse, although it is a public house the management reserve the right to refuse admission. Its the same reason dress codes and the mysterious regulars oly rules have come from. Its to ensure the dorrmen can give a legal justifed reason for refusal.

sock puppet

streings wrote: »

Can anyone explain why they are allowed refuse you for being too young, but not for being too old? Tis the same idea no?

Dunno about it being policy or anything but I've seen a few aul fellas get turned away from clubs with a young crowd.

GalwayKiefer

As long as the pub/club has a visible sign at the entrance that clearly states the minimum age for entry (be that 18/21/23/35) then they are entitled to enforce that rule. The notion of a "public house" to be a free-for-all for the "public" is rubbish, you have no entitlements to entry.

darklighter

leggo wrote: »

You think it's admissible in court, or in any kind of official capacity, to film bouncers doing their job?

There's a difference in having your face in the background of a piece on SixOne or in a sports event to sticking a camera in someone's face while they're in their place of work with the intent of making a potentially damaging claim. If you think otherwise your research of this law needs to involve more than just thinking "Well they got away with it there so I'm sure if I do (something comparable but completely different) then it HAS TO BE legal..."

I didnt say there wasnt a difference, I simply pointed out that a previous post was factually incorrect.

And to the best of my knowledge, it would be admissable in court. It's evidence of a law (the afore-mentioned intoxicating liquor act) being broken, no more, no less.

"Your video evidence wouldn't prove a thing. You'd still need to provide the name and DOB for everyone who was let in the door on the night."

No you wouldnt. If an establishment has a set advertised age policy, and you can provide the details of persons being admitted who dont comply with that, why would you need the details of everyone who's been admitted.

Now im not saying I'd advocate doing this but there are 1 or 2 places I would love to see it happening to.

I actually cant remember the last time I seen someone been stopped for been under an age limit. Most bouncers I know use the regulars or you've had too much tonight excuses to avoid any possible problems.

Since the regs surrounding licensing of security staff have come in, things have improved greatly

streings

veryangryman wrote: »

I really hope your under 18 for saying something so daft..

Older people generally have a head on shoulders so dont puke on seats or shag in the jacks etc.

Hmm maybe they should be barred on that count!

You didnt read my post properly..I completely understand why they would want to, but what i asked is why are they allowed? Legally why is refusing someone for being to young (but over 18) not the same as refusing someone for being too old?

Big Nasty

streings wrote: »

Legally why isnt refusing someone for being to young (but over 18) not the same as refusing someone for being too old?

Good question I guess!:pac: