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Leafonthewind

I agree with Pickarooney. I started reading the book, but I've stalled at chapter 3. The story started off well, with some mystery and some action, but falling back into a detailed description of the transformation into a werewolf when we already know he's a werewolf has me nodding off, to be perfectly honest.

And there are problems with typos and misplaced commas that had me going back to the beginning of a sentence to read it again. It disrupts the flow, and the moment I hit a snag like that, it pulls me out of the story and I don't enjoy it as much. I've taken note of some of these problems in order to let Fewcifur know, but again, I agree with Pickarooney. The beta readers should have pointed those out.

FewFew

pickarooney wrote: »

I finished this today. I'm a bit reluctant to put a review up on Amazon as to be honest the book seems quite a way off being finished. I'll go into more detail if you like but the gist of it is that the action, which is very well written, is smothered and strangled by pointlessly elaborate descriptions, particularly in the first three chapters, where you need to be hooking the reader with snappy prose.

You have an large number of errors with homophones throughout - stuff which, along with the pacing, your beta readers should have pointed out.

The more detail the better sir, PM me if it's too spoilerific.

The homophones issue is annoying. I didn't notice it, but I would have hoped the beta-readers would have picked it up, sure half of them were trained sub-editors. Makes the argument for hiring a professional I guess.

Do you mean descriptions within the action scenes or that certain chapters are more backstory based?

Leafonthewind wrote: »

I agree with Pickarooney. I started reading the book, but I've stalled at chapter 3. The story started off well, with some mystery and some action, but falling back into a detailed description of the transformation into a werewolf when we already know he's a werewolf has me nodding off, to be perfectly honest.

And there are problems with typos and misplaced commas that had me going back to the beginning of a sentence to read it again. It disrupts the flow, and the moment I hit a snag like that, it pulls me out of the story and I don't enjoy it as much. I've taken note of some of these problems in order to let Fewcifur know, but again, I agree with Pickarooney. The beta readers should have pointed those out.

Again, are you talking about key points that are too descriptive or the way chapters 2-4 cover how he became a werewolf?

Typos irritate me greatly at this stage. Punctuation I've always had an issue with, my first draft was filled with monster run-on sentences.

Really appreciate this feedback, so far I've only gotten positive reviews and I was beginning to wonder.

Sure, the beauty of an eBook is how easy it is to update, though it annoys me that I published something with errors in it.

Leafonthewind

Fewcifur wrote: »

Again, are you talking about key points that are too descriptive or the way chapters 2-4 cover how he became a werewolf?

Typos irritate me greatly at this stage. Punctuation I've always had an issue with, my first draft was filled with monster run-on sentences.

Personally, I think two full chapters dedicated to the transformation is overlong. The description of the transformation is important, and there's some brilliant writing in there, but there are some parts that could be cut out or pared down. I'll PM you some examples, along with some of those typos.

FewFew

Leafonthewind wrote: »

Personally, I think two full chapters dedicated to the transformation is overlong. The description of the transformation is important, and there's some brilliant writing in there, but there are some parts that could be cut out or pared down. I'll PM you some examples, along with some of those typos.

Thanks!

Ah ok, I see I see. It now starts to enter into "Can't please all the people all the time" territory, I've had a few people tell me that I didn't give enough background history etc. I'd be leaning more towards cutting back on the description than increasing it. I thought it was important to show the man before he turned into a werewolf, the transition being a key part of the book. Streamlining it would certainly be an option.

In contrast, the beta readers for book 2 have all had the opposite criticism, that it's too fast paced. Maybe by book 3 I'll have the pacing just right

coffee_cake

From my initial reading of 3 chapters of book 2 it was the same problem. My notes say cut out a lot of it. I should be able to finally look at it again this weekend for you

pickarooney

I don't have my tablet with me so I can't reference specific pages or chapters, but you'll know what I mean by these examples I hope.

If you object to this being here in spoiler form I'll remove it and PM you (or move it to Write Club if you like)

In one of the first chapters the MC is in a wood. You take a page and a half to tell us the wood was quiet. You could do that in two lines and show it rather than tell it.

In about chapter 3 you start to describe the transformation and you use the word 'pain' about 28 times in two paragraphs (this is not really an exaggeration, re-read it and look out for it!). It still remains a distanced description; there's very little to illustrate the pain in terms of how it makes the MC feel.

I know you've deliberately set out to bring across the duality of the wolf-man where one part of him acts somewhat against the will of the other part (or it's symbolically his subconscious who wants to do all these things that he normally wouldn't envisage). That's cool, and I enjoy the concept and some of the execution. However, you, the author, keep getting in the way of the character and describing things in his place. As it's a first-person perspective you need to trust Ciaran to carry the narrative himself with all the emotions and reactions that that entails. Even the Ciaran that interacts with his housemates and girlfriends is at odds with the one that's telling the story, because you don't really let him.

The backstory is important and needs to be there. there was one stage where it sort of jumped back and forward in time (around the time the dog died) where I was lost but I just got back into the story again after a page or two.

It's an indication of how strong the story is that I was able to put aside these issues and finish it and want to read on. I just think it could be a lot better with some more rigorous editing.

On the typos/homophones, off the top of my head you had
collage for college
then for than
wretched for retched
waiver for waver
sent for scent
discrete for discreet
vein for vain

and a few more along the same lines

FewFew

bluewolf wrote: »

From my initial reading of 3 chapters of book 2 it was the same problem. My notes say cut out a lot of it. I should be able to finally look at it again this weekend for you

Ah, tis surprising, I've been getting back nothing but the opposite, I was even looking at putting in some chapters to break up the constant action. There are maybe two or three chapters attempting to establish normality before it's torn apart, but that was very much a 1st draft of book 2.


That's cool Pick, tis what the spoiler tags are for


(edit) Just read through the spoilers. Excellent points. All easily addressed apart from the narrator clashing with himself, that'll take some reading to understand, it's the same voice in my head. Must step back and be more objective about reading that interplay.

pickarooney

Fewcifur wrote: »

Ah, tis surprising, I've been getting back nothing but the opposite, I was even looking at putting in some chapters to break up the constant action.

Avoid the temptation to do that. It will read as exactly that - filler. Who complains about too much action in a werewolf book? Backstory can be full of action too, remember.

FewFew

pickarooney wrote: »

Avoid the temptation to do that. It will read as exactly that - filler. Who complains about too much action in a werewolf book? Backstory can be full of action too, remember.

Book 2 kinda shifts into a war mentality and certain aspects of romantic relationships get drastically cut down because of this. I think that's understandable, but beta readers have flagged it.

Also flagged was the amount of action, but, I reasoned that if you're constantly threatened, well, you're not going to go have apicnic. But again, twas flagged.

I may have to get more diverse beta readers. Blue Wolf may prove a valuable insight if she ever manages to get through her mountain of books and other worthwhile activities (so many activities )

pickarooney

I've given myself a week off after finishing revision 10 of my book if you want to throw book two at me.

FewFew

pickarooney wrote: »

I've given myself a week off after finishing revision 10 of my book if you want to throw book two at me.

Excellent!

Also, currently re-reading Frankenstein, so not doing anything tooo important bookwise, so if you want another body to read version 10, well I'm ready to roll.

pickarooney

I might take you up on that.

coffee_cake

Fewcifur wrote: »

Book 2 kinda shifts into a war mentality and certain aspects of romantic relationships get drastically cut down because of this. I think that's understandable, but beta readers have flagged it.

Also flagged was the amount of action, but, I reasoned that if you're constantly threatened, well, you're not going to go have apicnic. But again, twas flagged.

I may have to get more diverse beta readers. Blue Wolf may prove a valuable insight if she ever manages to get through her mountain of books and other worthwhile activities (so many activities )

My exams are over as of an hour ago, and my mountain of books is nearly depleted, so I will read it this weekend certainly

FewFew

Happy with your exam performance?

coffee_cake

Yes to one, no to another
still, one out of two would make me happy

FewFew

bluewolf wrote: »

Yes to one, no to another
still, one out of two would make me happy

Well let's hope for a double-barrel wonder strike.

I look forward to your comments and opinions, must say Leaf and Pick have really made some excellent points. Beginning to think my beta reader pool needs some more critical voices in the mix Think my current crew are good as a test of a story, but when it comes to the craft, well, not so much.

coffee_cake

there you go, notes emailed

i understand about the pacing issue now that i've read the rest - most of it is action, but then i'm not entirely sure it's a problem
if you put in any filler it would be obvious, as i was saying, so it's either leave as is or expand the story. i think. brain has entirely shut down at this stage, may have more constructive advice tomorrow

but it's not bad at all once you tidy it up

Antilles

Fewcifur wrote: »

Beginning to think my beta reader pool needs some more critical voices in the mix

If Anton Chekhov handed my girlfriend a story to read, she'd give him back ten pages of criticism, highlighted mistakes and plot issues. She's vicious, and without a doubt the perfect beta reader. It's great to have somebody who you know will never let a problem slide.

FewFew

bluewolf wrote: »

there you go, notes emailed

i understand about the pacing issue now that i've read the rest - most of it is action, but then i'm not entirely sure it's a problem
if you put in any filler it would be obvious, as i was saying, so it's either leave as is or expand the story. i think. brain has entirely shut down at this stage, may have more constructive advice tomorrow

but it's not bad at all once you tidy it up

Oh cool, I wasn't lhinting at ya to rush or anything, thought you'd be post-exam kickin' out the jams.

Antilles wrote: »

If Anton Chekhov handed my girlfriend a story to read, she'd give him back ten pages of criticism, highlighted mistakes and plot issues. She's vicious, and without a doubt the perfect beta reader. It's great to have somebody who you know will never let a problem slide.

For a minute I thought you were offering up your girlfriend as a beta reader

pickarooney

Antilles wrote: »

If Anton Chekhov handed my girlfriend a story to read, she'd give him back ten pages of criticism, highlighted mistakes and plot issues. She's vicious, and without a doubt the perfect beta reader. It's great to have somebody who you know will never let a problem slide.

I'll take your word for that.