Download Illegally? You're no better than the looters.

jme2010

This was a debate I had with a co-worker.

I dissaprove of the rioting and looting, but I download illeaglly: songs, games, dvds, iphone apps etc.

He saw this as somewhat of a contradiction.

Are those who download illegally "criminals" as he put it? Or is it "not the same thing" as I put it.

Total grey area in my opinion.

Mena

How is it grey? You're stealing it and that's the end of it.

wild_cat

We never actually take the original though. When looting you actually remove the item. We just copy.

Copper_pipe

if you download illegally you are stealing IMO

speedboatchase

You download pictures of ill eagles? Seriously, learn to spell.

On the point, theft is theft. You agree with theft or you don't - doesn't matter that one is obviously a lot less serious than the other

Morlar

There is no comparison between stealing intellectual property and stealing physical property, arson and assaulting and terrorising innocent human beings.

baaaa

jme2010 wrote: »

This was a debate I had with a co-worker.

I dissaprove of the rioting and looting, but I download illeaglly: songs, games, dvds, iphone apps etc.

He saw this as somewhat of a contradiction.

Are those who download illeaglly "criminals" as he put it? Or is it "not the same thing" as I put it.

Total grey area in my opinion.

"not the same thing"as you put it.

CardBordWindow

Every time i download a song, I go into town and smash a window.

Richard Hillman

You make a good point actually and i am an illegal downloader and a deep condemner of the looting.

connundrum

You're.

tfitzgerald

speedboatchase wrote: »

You download pictures of ill eagles? Seriously, learn to spell.

Great post made me lol:)

Messi2

Who cares.

My no better?


Anyway it's more equivalent to going into the shops, making exact copies and leaving the originals undisturbed...

Alter-Ego

Yeah, because putting a bin through the window of Carphone Warehouse window is exactly the same as downloading Phil Collins' Greatest Hits.

wild_cat

Alter-Ego wrote: »

Yeah, because putting a bin through the window of Carphone Warehouse window is exactly the same as downloading Phil Collins' Greatest Hits.

There's two items very wrong with that post.

chin_grin

This.

ríomhaire

Pirating is certainly not on the same level as looting. Looting is active destruction and theft of objects that directly cost money. Most people who pirate things wouldn't have bought it in the first place if the pirating options wasn't available I find.

Now I don't excuse piracy at all, but putting it on the same level as rioting and looting is bonkers. Pirating is still theft though. Copyright is an important thing. It's there to protect artists and people who create. It means that I can't just reprint Terry Pratchett's books and sell them myself without giving him a cut, which is a damn good thing because if he didn't live off his book sales he would never have written so many, nor would he have been able to donate so much money to Alzheimer's research.

Though that said I don't think copyright violation should be a criminal offence. I think it should be a civil matter between the copyright holder and the violator and it's a waste of time for the police or the courts to be hunting down teenagers who seeded Crysis to loads of people. EA can take it up with the kid and sue him if they like.


I would also make a point that I find nothing wrong with pirating abandonware or media that is not available to your region (I believe that the Room is only available on region 1 locked DVDs for example).

krudler

well I know the last time I downloaded an album it resulted in 16,000 police officers being mobilised, people being moved out of their homes in fear of them being burnt to the ground, mass rioting, news reports all day, traffic and business disruptions, unemployment, mass arson and a resulting look at todays youth and their roles in a society that abandoned them. so yes, its the same thing. shame on me.

It wasnt even that good, I preferred their early stuff.

inforfun

If i download a movie there is a chance i like it that much, that i decide to buy the DVD or Blu-Ray.
Bought movies i would never had bought if i hadn't seen the downloaded copy first.

Fat chance, that if i loot a shop for their DVD's i would go back later and buy another copy just for the fun of it.

twinQuins

Mena wrote: »

How is it grey? You're stealing it and that's the end of it.

Copyright infringement is now stealing?

If some person designs a widget and I make a copy of their blueprints and make my own version using my own materials, is that theft?

Alter-Ego

wild_cat wrote: »

There's two items very wrong with that post.

Yeah, they don't even sell carphones and they're usually just shops and not warehouses.

Mena

twinQuins wrote: »

Copyright infringement is now stealing?

If some person designs a widget and I make a copy of their blueprints and make my own version using my own materials, is that theft?

Yes

Kold

The only reason that I take drugs is so that drug dealers can commit murder and therefore I can get off on the thrill of murder indirectly.

ríomhaire

The poll options are stupid. Just because pirating isn't theft doesn't mean it's fine or a grey area. It's not theft; it's copyright violation. They're two different things but neither are good.

py2006

Actually, they are being shared! So somebody somewhere bought them initially!

You are basically copying of somebody who has copied who has copied who has copied etc etc

chin_grin

Ah here's the other image I was looking for.

Dun

Piracy is not theft. As much as I'd love to download a new Galaxy S2, it's not possible.

Frank Black

Alter-Ego wrote: »

Yeah, because putting a bin through the window of Carphone Warehouse window is exactly the same as downloading Phil Collins' Greatest Hits.

I consider this the greater crime.

twinQuins

Mena wrote: »

Yes

Would you, maybe, like to explain your reasoning behind that? I'm not depriving them of the use of their blueprint or taking materials to make my own widget, so how is it theft?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

piracy is theft, and all the moral hoops you all try to jump through to convince yourselves otherwise are just ridiculous.

chin_grin

Dun wrote: »

Piracy is not theft. As much as I'd love to download a new Galaxy S2, it's not possible.

Aw, yours is better cos it has lil piggies. D'aw.

ríomhaire

Dun wrote: »

Piracy is not theft. As much as I'd love to download a new Galaxy S2, it's not possible.

Man I'd love to download a new car :P

Someone hurry up and invent 3D printers that can print a car!

Blackpitts

I've just put a brick through my laptop screen when I tried looting itunes...

Quazzie

connundrum wrote: »

You're.

speedboatchase wrote: »

You download pictures of ill eagles? Seriously, learn to spell.

On the point, theft is theft. You agree with theft or you don't - doesn't matter that one is obviously a lot less serious than the other

bluewolf wrote: »

My no better?


Anyway it's more equivalent to going into the shops, making exact copies and leaving the originals undisturbed...

chin_grin wrote: »

YOU'RE!

Also this.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63152137&postcount=20

Sky King

Music copyright laws are bollox anyways.

I would have no qualms about downloading 'Happy Birthday To You' which is a folk song written by teachers for an infant class years and years ago not for profit, yet technically if I want to sing this at my birthday party I have to pay royalties to Warner Music.

Back in the day an artist had control and rights to their songs and got a couple years out of them before them becoming a 'free for all'.

These days you have record companies aggressively taking ownership of music like the example above. They know their days are numbered and are desperately clinging to an anachronistic business model which is no longer relevant - conceived in the days when distribution power was everything - trucks to get your physical record all over the country.

Today the web has done away with all of that.

jme2010

speedboatchase wrote: »

You download pictures of ill eagles? Seriously, learn to spell.

typo you cnut

chin_grin

jme2010 wrote: »

typo you cnut

Post of the day.

jester77

It's not the same, look at it from the legal side of things.

If you purchase a TV from a store and it's crap, you can take it back and exchange it for a different TV.
If you purchase music from a store and it's crap, you can't take it back and exchange it for different music.

elefant

Can't think of piracy without thinking of this, the best anti-piracy ad ever!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-wwqW37-gg

Kold

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

piracy is theft, and all the moral hoops you all try to jump through to convince yourselves otherwise are just ridiculous.

Theft isn't necessarily amoral though. I don't feel at all bad about downloading, I would feel like a c*nt for smashing up a small business owner's livelihood however.

Frank Black

I presume that most of the stuff looted is covered by insurance wheras illegally downloaded items aren't - so you could argue that illigal downloading is worse than looting.

chin_grin

elefant wrote: »

Can't think of piracy without thinking of this, the best anti-piracy ad ever!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

Nope. This.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI

Liam Byrne

py2006 wrote: »

Actually, they are being shared! So somebody somewhere bought them initially!

They are definitely NOT being "shared"

If you share a chip or a milkshake, you get half (or one-tenth if you share with 9 people)

If you share music, you need to be in the same place to hear it

Sharing is a complete misnomer and used to make it sound less objectionable.

Frank Black

twinQuins wrote: »

Would you, maybe, like to explain your reasoning behind that? I'm not depriving them of the use of their blueprint or taking materials to make my own widget, so how is it theft?

Well, you did ask in your original question if copyright infringement was stealing - the poster was correct to say 'yes', of course it is.
The legal term may not be 'stealing', but it's certainly illegal.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Kold wrote: »

Theft isn't necessarily amoral though. I don't feel at all bad about downloading, I would feel like a c*nt for smashing up a small business owner's livelihood however.

but you'd happily smash up a tesco?

ríomhaire

black francis wrote: »

Well, you did ask in your original question if copyright infringement was stealing - the poster was correct to say 'yes', of course it is.
The legal term may not be 'stealing', but it's certainly illegal.

Isn't this a thread about the morality of it, not the legality?

Voodu Child

It's not my fault that I pirate things, it's the governments fault for closing the youth clubs.

ItsAWindUp

Thing is, I wouldn't necessarily buy a lot of the stuff I download had I not had the opportunity to download it.

twinQuins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They are definitely NOT being "shared"

If you share a chip or a milkshake, you get half (or one-tenth if you share with 9 people)

If you share music, you need to be in the same place to hear it

Sharing is a complete misnomer and used to make it sound less objectionable.

You're sharing the data. It seems in this case you're using "sharing" as a synonym of "splitting", where it's possible to share a book or film among friends without splitting it (and without engaging in copyright infringement).

black francis wrote: »

Well, you did ask in your original question if copyright infringement was stealing - the poster was correct to say 'yes', of course it is.
The legal term may not be 'stealing', but it's certainly illegal.

Well I was hoping for something more than a one-word answer - you know, something we could discuss seeing as this is a discussion forum. Anyway...

Now, it is illegal, yes but it's not theft; legally (and IMO morally) it's not the same thing so I'm curious to hear the reasoning why said poster thinks it is.

Frank Black

ríomhaire wrote: »

Isn't this a thread about the morality of it, not the legality?

I was simply answering the question asked.

Kold

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

but you'd happily smash up a tesco?

I'm not smashing up anything.