Freeman Megamerge

Ms Minnie Mouse

Does the Freeman ethic also preclude the correct use of whichever language the Freeman chooses to converse in, or are the laws of spelling, grammar, punctuation et al unenforceable upon the free man and only applicable to corporations?

Finnbar01

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Freeman leaves court a free man!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/man-freed-after-judge-accepts-his-apology-2885709.html

A MAN who repeatedly challenged a judge to identify himself in court was released from custody last night after being jailed for contempt.

Aaron Milne (36) appeared at Waterford District Court yesterday charged with the possession of an offensive weapon, namely pepper spray, in the city some weeks ago.

The matter was adjourned until November 10.

Does anyone know the outcome of his Nov 10th court appearance?

Scealta_saol

couldn't find anything on Aaron Milne's case on independent.ie - nothing later than the original piece above....

But when you Google his name, the first thing you get is this:

http://freemanireland.ning.com/forum/topics/suppprt-freeman-aaron-milne-in-waterford-courthouse-tmro-at-10am

with a Facebook link to this:

https://www.facebook.com/events/284332258248937/

And... It made me wonder... How come freemen's Facebook profiles [from those on the above event listing) in the name of Joe Bloggs and not Joe of the family Bloggs???

But other than that... Nothing later than his original court date... Maybe it was just adjourned again on the 10/11/11?

benway

Congojack wrote: »

Perhaps do some research yourselves, instead of bending over and taking everything that is shoved in you and scoffing at those who wont stand for it.

Know I'm thrashing a dead horse here, but I've done five years in University, which, would you believe, involved plenty of research and independent thinking. Thing is, my research generally focused on the approaches that actually did work in actual cases, instead of what some wacky Canadian has decided should work. Just because you dwell in the realm of reality doesn't make you some kind of "sheeple" lackey - it does, however, give your critique some credibility.

This stuff is kinda getting out of hand, have seen the "how to get away without paying household charge" thing on a couple of friends' Facebook pages recently. I just hope that people aren't taking it seriously.

It's like our Fremen are the laziest wannabe revolutionaries this world has ever seen. They seem to have forgotten that you need to either usurp the state's monopoly on force or infiltrate its institutions and change the law if you want things to work how you think they should. One step at a time, people.

???
The legal system works just how we say it does.
Profit!

Mmmmmm ... Shai Hulud.

johnnyskeleton

benway wrote: »

It's like our Fremen are the laziest wannabe revolutionaries this world has ever seen. They seem to have forgotten that you need to either usurp the state's monopoly on force or infiltrate its institutions and change the law if you want things to work how you think they should. One step at a time, people.

exactly. Supposing there was a fremen revolution in the morning. A new era is heralded in where humans are free and contracts are only between their corporate personalities. Parties take place on the streets. But then people start getting hungry. The government gives money to farmers to grow food, but the farmers pocket the money and sell their food to the uk todouble their profits. The government sues the farmers, but they say I am not joe farmer I am joe of the family farmer and the money was given to a corporation which does not exist.

Starved for cash, the government imposes a voluntary tax on corporations, which nobody pays. Then, a group of criminals barges into the taoiseachs house. Youcant come into my house, says the Taoiseach, to which the criminals say this is not joe of the family taoiseachs house, this is a corporation called joe taoiseachs house and since he is not a human, he has no right to the land. Homeless, starving and being ruler of a defunct state, the fremen take comfort that at least they are obeying real law, not admiralty law.

Grolschevik

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

exactly. Supposing there was a fremen revolution in the morning. A new era is heralded in where humans are free and contracts are only between their corporate personalities. Parties take place on the streets. But then people start getting hungry. The government gives money to farmers to grow food, but the farmers pocket the money and sell their food to the uk todouble their profits. The government sues the farmers, but they say I am not joe farmer I am joe of the family farmer and the money was given to a corporation which does not exist.

Starved for cash, the government imposes a voluntary tax on corporations, which nobody pays. Then, a group of criminals barges into the taoiseachs house. Youcant come into my house, says the Taoiseach, to which the criminals say this is not joe of the family taoiseachs house, this is a corporation called joe taoiseachs house and since he is not a human, he has no right to the land. Homeless, starving and being ruler of a defunct state, the fremen take comfort that at least they are obeying real law, not admiralty law.

That sounds like a great idea for a screenplay!

Our man in Havana

Grolschevik wrote: »

That sounds like a great idea for a screenplay!

It wouldn't be a bad idea to make a film to show everyone that they are nuts.

benway

The property tax thing is really pissing me off, just popped up again in my Facebook feed. If the Fremen are actually such rugged, free thinking rebels, why don't they grow a pair and call it what it is - an act of civil disobedience.

Aside from being, as we have established, totally crazy, it's a cop out to say that non payment comes down to some profound understanding of how the legal system operates, that mysteriously isn't taught in law schools and doesn't appear in any judgments.

Pretending that the legal and political system does not exist, or deciding that, unknown to practitioners, it takes some fantasy form, does not equate to taking a bold stand against the excesses and injustices of that system.

Ken.

Stick all the freemen on an island off the coast. Give them some tents and a months supply of food and water. Also give them some fishing rods. In a month and a day when they want to come back to the main land they swear to never speak of such **** again or its back to the island for a year stretch.

Our man in Havana

They wouldn't last a week let alone a month.

Corruptable

benway wrote: »

It's like our Fremen are the laziest wannabe revolutionaries this world has ever seen. They seem to have forgotten that you need to either usurp the state's monopoly on force or infiltrate its institutions and change the law if you want things to work how you think they should. One step at a time, people.

I was just juggling that thought the other evening while I was taking bath, of all things.

It occurred to me that I can respect or appreciate the determination of violent revolutionaries such as radical communists and socialists who want to mirror Lenin, Guevara, and Castro and even the some of the raving, foaming at the mouth right-wing American racists who want to take down the Federal Government in the United States a la Timothy McVeigh, but what I cannot respect is the absolute moral, intellectual and political famine which eminates from followers of the freeman mantra.

The nearest similar cause which I can compare them to is that of the phenomenon of the cult of the People's Temple (better known as Jonestown).

splashthecash

In the Metro this morning....can anyone legal-minded confirm this??

You won't get a household charge bill because it is a statute. People need to understand this. A statute is a "legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed"...who are those it governs? Its us, the public.

This household charge is a statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government, and it only carries the force of law if you consent to it - which means you are legally obliged to pay for it if you register for it on householdcharge.ie

Your silence and inaction gives you a stance of no consent. If you do not consent, a statute cannot affect you. However if you register for this "charge", you are consenting to the statute i.e. you are signing the contract.

This is why the government is ASKING people to register for the household charge rather than just sending a bill to each household.

lynchie

Yawwwnn.. in before the lock

Peregrinus

We can confirm that it's complete b*lls, refuted time and time again on this forum, and everywhere where sane people gather.

It's a crude adaptation of an argument that is advanced from time to time by some far-right loonies in the US, adapted for Ireland by crossing out some US-relevant terms and substituting more-or-less appopriate Irish ones. The argument was b*lls in the US context, and it doesn't acquire any sense or force or validity by being adapted in this way.

The central claim, that a "statute" is legislation which only binds you if you agree to it, is what we in the plain speaking trade call a flat-out lie.

opti76

it has to be true ..... it makes so much sense..

splashthecash

Please close

MagicSean

Child pornography laws are also statute. So think about what it would mean if this theory were true.

Trick of the Tail

The Freemen stuff is nonsense, but nevertheless I'm intrigued as to why we're being asked to voluntarity register for this charge.

Businesses are just sent a rates bill. Why aren't just being sent a bill for the household tax?

A.

howamidifferent

alinton wrote: »

The Freemen stuff is nonsense, but nevertheless I'm intrigued as to why we're being asked to voluntarity register for this charge.

Businesses are just sent a rates bill. Why aren't just being sent a bill for the household tax?

A.

Because they dont have a register of who is liable to pay, so need people to self declare as liable. :rolleyes:

seamus

howamidifferent wrote: »

Because they dont have a register of who is liable to pay, so need people to self declare as liable. :rolleyes:

Actually it's because it cheaper to have people self-declare than to chase people down for it.

Revenue have been doing exactly the same thing since before the internet.

Rest assured they have a database of properties. It's called the Land Registry. You will not be able to hide from the household charge by just not paying it.

Hippo

seamus wrote: »

It's called the Land Registry.

Just on a sidebar, the Land Registry is far from comprehensive.

This is not in any way to be interpreted as a statement of support for any freeman nonsense!

Grolschevik

splashthecash wrote: »

In the Metro this morning....

You won't get a household charge bill because it is a statute. People need to understand this. A statute is a "legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed"...who are those it governs? Its us, the public.

This household charge is a statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government, and it only carries the force of law if you consent to it - which means you are legally obliged to pay for it if you register for it on householdcharge.ie

Your silence and inaction gives you a stance of no consent. If you do not consent, a statute cannot affect you. However if you register for this "charge", you are consenting to the statute i.e. you are signing the contract.

This is why the government is ASKING people to register for the household charge rather than just sending a bill to each household.

They published this? I presume it was a letter. The fact that it made it past the subs is, quite frankly, an indictment of the Metro's journalistic standards!

FreudianSlippers

Hippo wrote: »

Just on a sidebar, the Land Registry is far from comprehensive.

This is not in any way to be interpreted as a statement of support for any freeman nonsense!

They still have ways of finding out who owns these homes though.


It's sort of the government's way of saying "we can do this the easy way, or the hard way".

Hippo

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

They still have ways of finding out who owns these homes though.

You're right but if the property is unregistered the searching process can be lengthy, difficult and occasionally completely unproductive, believe me! You wouldn't want to be depending on producing tens of thousands of results in a hurry.

Pataman

If I remember correctly, they will be accessing the utility companies lists.

mount_talbot

It would be some help to a lot of people under intense debt pressure to think that Freeman thinking would get them out from under the thumb of banks and the government, but as was said, it does appear to be bunkum. I heard about it a couple of weeks back, looked into it and found it very interesting, but I wouldn't want to go into court looking for the judges oath, or proclaiming myself a freeman under God with inalienable rights blah blah blah...

I'm in a sticky enough position already financially speaking, with a combination of bad luck and bad decisions without adding another bad decision to the list. When you get into a certain space you do begin to see everything as an uphill struggle, and any way of getting out of it seems to be a relief. I want to pay my way, keep my house, feed and clothe my kids etc. and some days I do wish there was a way of starting again without going bankrupt....but there dosent appear to be any way out bar living in poverty for the next 10 or so years. That is the consequence of what I have done, and I will live with it (but if I thought for a second the freeman thing would work, I would give it a go)

Whatever else about the freeman movement, at least their heart is in the right place (albeit with a misguided ideal) and they are at least trying to say you have a choice in some matters, and that maybe, just maybe, the government isn't always right and should at least be questioned. I admire that.

Paulw

mount_talbot wrote: »

Whatever else about the freeman movement, at least their heart is in the right place (albeit with a misguided ideal)

Their heart is in the right place??? :rolleyes: Oh yeah ... it's in their own self interest and that's where it ends. They want to have the best of all worlds. They don't want to pay taxes or abide by laws they don't like, but yet they have no problems taking social welfare or anything else they can from the state (ie the rest of us tax payers).

mount_talbot

Paulw wrote: »

Their heart is in the right place??? :rolleyes: Oh yeah ... it's in their own self interest and that's where it ends. They want to have the best of all worlds. They don't want to pay taxes or abide by laws they don't like, but yet they have no problems taking social welfare or anything else they can from the state (ie the rest of us tax payers).

I didn't say it was right...its as wrong as you can get. It is dangerous to follow through with these principles. I had a look at the TNS website and they don't appear to be looking for money (maybe I missed that) just giving spurious advice and a place to rant about how life is tough sometimes. Let them at it. I kinda wish it was a sound principle though. I wouldn't mind telling the government to take a running jump with all these new taxes and charges but I guess we'll have to accept it and pay up. How is the next question though....

Our man in Havana

Pataman wrote: »

If I remember correctly, they will be accessing the utility companies lists.

Under what power?

Executive Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpUjl4LvQM8

Has anyone seen this yet?

Would anyone more legally literate than me be able to shed light on matters raised here?

Is this a freeman defence, or is it something on more solid grounds?

The usual odd distinctions of common / constitutional / statute law are all being mentioned, and all the usual freeman quackery seems to be getting raised, but it looks like it ends in a win for the locals?

Confused here.