Denver Broncos Thread

Justin10

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It had nothing to do with a lack of interest - Denver wanted Vasquez and Vasquez only wanted to come to Denver.

Fair enough How could anyone not want to work with the great GM John Elway

davyjose

Rochey18 wrote: »

Or how about you just say you got Vasquez at a decent amount in comparison to Levitre.

Surprised in the lack of interest in Vasquez

Indy were interested, but from what I hear, Thomas is a better run blocker anyway. And while not as good as Vasquez, he's a decent enough pass protector.

spiralism

Rochey18 wrote: »

Or how about you just say you got Vasquez at a decent amount in comparison to Levitre.

Surprised in the lack of interest in Vasquez

We signed him on day one and were the first and only place he went to?

That's not a lack of interest, that's opportunism. He wasnt leaving once he walked in. Same as Welker, Knighton and DRC.

Actually, you'll be pleased to know it was Rivers and Dielman that helped push him along!:

Louis Vasquez had never known what that was like until the last few days, so he turned to two of his former San Diego teammates for advice -- ex-Chargers guard Kris Dielman and quarterback Philip Rivers. Dielman, now retired, had tested free agency in 2007 and received a massive offer from the Seahawks but opted to take $9 million less to stay with San Diego; Rivers signed a contract extension in 2009 with one year left on his rookie deal.
Their message? Don't feel guilty about leaving your team; this is the moment when you have to do what's right for your career.

Very nice of them to look after a teammate or former teammate like that !

Justin10

spiralism wrote: »

We signed him on day one and were the first and only place he went to?

That's not a lack of interest, that's opportunism. He wasnt leaving once he walked in. Same as Welker, Knighton and DRC.

Actually, you'll be pleased to know it was Rivers and Dielman that helped push him along!:



Very nice of them to look after a teammate or former teammate like that !

Huh? There was a lack of interest in players for example the Chargers declared an interest in Levitre, its on the Bills website. But he was too dear, he went to the meet with Titans first because they could afford him. Only teams interested in Vasquez was the Broncos and Colts, which is a lack of interest.

Ye your spot on, Rivers and Dielmen are great guys , amazing how Dielmen turned down the Seahawks.

Jolly Red Giant

Rochey18 wrote: »

Only teams interested in Vasquez was the Broncos and Colts, which is a lack of interest.

You for got to mention on team that were absolutely desperate to sign Vasquez - the Chargers - except he didn't want to stay in San Diego. Vasquez had one target in mind, playing in Denver. He instantly makes the Broncos Oline significantly better and by him joining Denver, the Bolts Oline is instantly significantly worse.

The Chargers have cap problems and a lot of holes to fill, which they are not doing particularly well at the moment.

Justin10

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You for got to mention on team that were absolutely desperate to sign Vasquez - the Chargers - except he didn't want to stay in San Diego. Vasquez had one target in mind, playing in Denver. He instantly makes the Broncos Oline significantly better and by him joining Denver, the Bolts Oline is instantly significantly worse.

The Chargers have cap problems and a lot of holes to fill, which they are not doing particularly well at the moment.

Over 15M in space is not cap problems. Telesco just didn't want him as bad as the Broncos, you can read that on any SD news site.

If anything Vasquez wanted to stay, his agent said they asked for the exact same deal the Broncos gave and we rejected it, not willing to pay that much.

Jolly Red Giant

Rochey18 wrote: »

If anything Vasquez wanted to stay, his agent said they asked for the exact same deal the Broncos gave and we rejected it, not willing to pay that much.

I disagree - Vasqeuz was always going to leave and always going to the Broncos - he signed without even visiting the Broncos team facility in the first couple of hours of free agency. The price the Broncos paid for Vasquez was very good value - the fact that the Chargers didn't (or couldn't) make an effort to keep him is something that should worry every Bolts fan - the Bolts Oline is terrible and it just lost its best player.

Vasquez was replaced with Chad Reinhart - a back-up guard from the Bills. The Bolts added King Dunlap - a journeyman pro who is a depth player on any roster and who is brutal at pass protection.

The Bolts also signed Derek Cox to a 4 year $20million contract with more than $10million guaranteed - Cox is a good CB, the problem is that he is an injury waiting to happen and that is why the Jags cut him.

Added to that is John Phillips - and the Bolts are signing back-up players or injury risks. Smacks a little of desperation to me.

Justin10

This isnt the Chargers thread so don't see why we discussing our signings.
Its a fact he wanted to get a deal with Chargers done, its been going on with AJ Smith and now Telesco.

Telesco didn't want to pay him, neither did AJ Smith.
We would rather bring in lots of players instead of invest in him which I don't argue with.
I already said Im a fan of him but he is poor in the run game, doesn't get a push off the line, pass protection is up their with his top 10 guard money.

TO.

Seems like your front office is not perfect after all. They just messed up Dumervill's contract. It was thought he re-signed but it turns out no paperwork has been filed for him. Someone is going to get spanked.

Jolly Red Giant

TO. wrote: »

Seems like your front office is not perfect after all. They just messed up Dumervill's contract. It was thought he re-signed but it turns out no paperwork has been filed for him. Someone is going to get spanked.

Doom's agent - his fax machine was busted

TO.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Doom's agent - his fax machine was busted

To be fair I posted that long before the real reason came out.

Justin10

Just read the Broncos where less then 1m below the cap, any idea who they where going to release to sign your draft picks??

Jolly Red Giant

Rochey18 wrote: »

Just read the Broncos where less then 1m below the cap, any idea who they where going to release to sign your draft picks??

The Broncos have absolutely no cap worries -

They saved $8million after cutting Dumervil. They likely will sign Feeney on a one-year contract for about $4million.

Chris Kuper is badly hurt with his ankle and may retire - if he comes back then it will probably be as a back-up on the vet minimum. Either way the Broncos will save about $2.75million

Either Knowshow Moreno or McGahee will be cut - or both - McGahee because of injury and fumbling issues and he looks like he has hit the wall when the productivity of running backs just drops off a cliff. Moreno just isn't that good. Cutting Moreno would save $1million - cutting McGahee would save $2million. A move for Chris Ivory could not be ruled out if both Moreno and McGahee were cut - he's the type of big power back that Fox likes - he would cost $2million and a second round pick.

With the signing of Bradley and the fact that the Broncos want Irving to compete for the MLB position - I expect Joe Mays to be cut or signed for the vet minimum - he is old, slow and not really any good - either way there is a saving of more than $3million on the cap.

Total saving if things pan out the way I outlined them - just over $10million.

The Broncos hired Mike Sullivan to clean up all thed ead cap money from the Shanahan and McDaniels eras (yes there was some dead cap money still on the books from Shanahan). The Broncos have practically no dead money and few committments that would result in any dead money on the contracts. Generally they only give out contracts with one years guaranteed money.

On a slightly different topic - I've just read the details of the contract the Broncos offered Dumervil - he was offered -
$3million signing bonus
$8million this year (guaranteed)
$11.5million in 2014 (not guaranteed)
$10million in 2015 (not guaranteed)
There was a $3million injury guarantee for 2014 and Dumervil wanted it upped to $8million.

The contract would have saved the Broncos $4million in this year's salary cap.

The guy is a moron for not signing the contract - he was offered a lot more than he was actually worth. He would have got a guaranteed $11million this year instead of $12million under the original contract and if he stayed for the final two years he would have got an extra $4million over the existing contract. There is absolutely no way that anyone will pay Dumervil $11million this year. The going rate for a situational pass rusher is in the $6million range and Doom might attract $7-8million because he is a good player - but he hasn't a hope of $11million unless someone signs him on a four or five year deal and gives him a very big signing bonus - which is most definitely not the way free agency is going this year.

Jolly Red Giant

Here's a solution for Dumervil - fire the agent who screwed up the deal - sign a contract on his own to take $3million base salary plus $3million signing bonus - agree to $8million for each of the following two seasons.

The Broncos still save the $4million on the cap this year and have the same cap hit in 2014 and 2015 - and Dumervil saves $1.2million this year and $1.6million in each of the next two years in agents fees.

Jolly Red Giant

mikemac1 wrote: »

Agent fees are capped at 3% and would be nothing like those figures

I know - it was a bit of sarcasm - geez :rolleyes:

You can bet Dumervil is buying Magid a calculator.

Jolly Red Giant

Broncos appear ready to move on from Doom - Freeney and Abraham due into Dove Valley tomorrow for visits

Jolly Red Giant

It appears that the Broncos have offered Dumervil a revised 3 year deal worth $18million - $6million signing bonus plus $2million this year and $5million in 2014 & 2015. This takes account of the cap hit caused by his release.

There are also reports that the Ravens offer is less than Denver's revised contract offer - if this is the case then it indicates that Dumervil's value has plummeted to the average for situational pass rush specialists - $4-$5million a year. He must be kicking himself that he didn't take Denver's initial offer last week.

kinnikinnik5

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It appears that the Broncos have offered Dumervil a revised 3 year deal worth $18million - $6million signing bonus plus $2million this year and $5million in 2014 & 2015. This takes account of the cap hit caused by his release.

There are also reports that the Ravens offer is less than Denver's revised contract offer - if this is the case then it indicates that Dumervil's value has plummeted to the average for situational pass rush specialists - $4-$5million a year. He must be kicking himself that he didn't take Denver's initial offer last week.

With all the hurt feelings from faxgate I wonder how motivated Dumervil would be if he somehow ended up with the Broncos again. They might be better off with a motivated Freeney than they would be with Doom turning into a distraction in the locker room.

Jolly Red Giant

kinnikinnik5 wrote: »

With all the hurt feelings from faxgate I wonder how motivated Dumervil would be if he somehow ended up with the Broncos again. They might be better off with a motivated Freeney than they would be with Doom turning into a distraction in the locker room.

Don't think that's going to happen - Doom is now likely to just go chasing the money and I doubt he ends up with any team that has play-off prospects who are desperate for a pass-rusher and will pay a little voer the odds for one.

It will be interesting to see two things as the whole scenario unflods -
1. How effective Doom with be without Miller on the opposite side of the defence to him?
2. How much effect it will actually have on the Broncos? (and there is a growing consensus that it may not be all that great)

kinnikinnik5

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It will be interesting to see two things as the whole scenario unflods -
1. How effective Doom with be without Miller on the opposite side of the defence to him?
2. How much effect it will actually have on the Broncos? (and there is a growing consensus that it may not be all that great)

I don't think he will stay in Denver either. To your first point I suspect he won't be quite as effective without Miller, but it depends how he is used as well as the type of defense he is used on. If he is put in too many run stopping situations he won't shine.

As for how much effect it might have on the Broncos it could cost us a crucial victory down the line. With teams like Seattle and San Fran only getting stronger it doesn't feel great to be downgrading.

That being said Miller could revive Freeney's career and I'm sure Peyton has been working on getting him out to Denver.

spiralism

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Don't think that's going to happen - Doom is now likely to just go chasing the money and I doubt he ends up with any team that has play-off prospects who are desperate for a pass-rusher and will pay a little voer the odds for one.

It will be interesting to see two things as the whole scenario unflods -
1. How effective Doom with be without Miller on the opposite side of the defence to him?
2. How much effect it will actually have on the Broncos? (and there is a growing consensus that it may not be all that great)

I'd be inclined to think if we replaced him with Abraham it would not be too big a deal. Just as long as he didnt end up at the Patriots as he'd fill a significant need and play across from Chandler Jones where he'd be just as effective. That and they're the apparent no.1 rival if we play to expectations. The real sting was the cap hit for nothing imo..not going to be devastated if he ends up on a non-contender

Jolly Red Giant

spiralism wrote: »

The real sting was the cap hit for nothing imo..not going to be devastated if he ends up on a non-contender

I can live with the cap hit - it was going to be a hit of $2million next year anyway because this was really a one year deal - and we will need a sh*t load of cap space next year for Clady, Decker, Thomas, Beadles, Walton, Ayers, Unrein, Woodyard etc. Furthermore I don't believe he was worth the $9million cap hit that would have resulted from the contract in this year.

kinnikinnik5 wrote: »

To your first point I suspect he won't be quite as effective without Miller, but it depends how he is used as well as the type of defense he is used on. If he is put in too many run stopping situations he won't shine.

Playing OLB in a 3-4 defence would suit him

kinnikinnik5 wrote: »

As for how much effect it might have on the Broncos it could cost us a crucial victory down the line. With teams like Seattle and San Fran only getting stronger it doesn't feel great to be downgrading.

And this is the crucial question - how much of a downgrade is it actually not to have him on the team. Last season he was an utter liability against the run and analysis has shown that he really was not that effective as a pass-rusher either - was usually handled by a single OLman and hardly ever induced RB cover which allowed the RB to break out into the flat for a dump off pass. He was analysed as being the Bronco who provided the worst value as a player on the roster (and that is saying something). I actually believe Abraham would be an upgrade and a good selection somewhere in the draft will help. Furthermore Ayers will get a shot at starting and the Broncos coaching staff appear to have a lot of faith in Malik Jackson.

kinnikinnik5 wrote: »

That being said Miller could revive Freeney's career and I'm sure Peyton has been working on getting him out to Denver.

Freeney has got old and slow and would be worse than Doom against the run - in my opinion Abraham brings a lot more to the table.

davyjose

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Freeney has got old and slow and would be worse than Doom against the run - in my opinion Abraham brings a lot more to the table.

Freeness still got some gas in the tank. He's a DE in a 4-3 system. Last year he was played out of position. He's still an excellent pass rusher and will be an asset to any team.

Jolly Red Giant

davyjose wrote: »

Freeness still got some gas in the tank. He's a DE in a 4-3 system. Last year he was played out of position. He's still an excellent pass rusher and will be an asset to any team.

There is a limited supply of free agent DEs on the market - Avril and Bennett have been signed - leaving just

Dumervil
Abraham
Freeney
Unemyiora

There are currently four play-off teams teams looking for a DE and all four DEs will probably end up with these teams. Everyone is waiting for Dumervil and the rest will sign shortly afterwards.

Broncos
Pats
Ravens
Falcons

My preference was always for the Broncos to resign Dumervil - he is the best of what's available despite his limitations. The problem is that the Broncos were overpaying Doom and he still managed to make a mess of signing the contract. I doubt he comes back to Denver.

Of the rest - I don't want Unemyiora- and I would prefer Abraham to Freeney because Abraham is better against the run and comparable as a pass rusher. Either of these players would do well in Denver because Von Miller will be operating at the opposite end of the line.

Jolly Red Giant

Now I was reading up on the Broncos Free Agent situation next year - and it appears that the Broncos are going for broke to win the SB next season. The Broncos are going to be in salary cap hell next year.

Ryan Clady will cost at least $10million a year
Eric Decker will expect at least double his $1.5million from this year
Deymarius Thomas will receive $5million in the last year of his contract compared with $2.5million this year.
Robert Ayers will receive $1million this year and would expect a pay rise
Zane Beadles will expect 3 or 4 times more than the $1million next season
Brandon Colquitt will expect to double his $1million money
Trindon Holliday will have to receive double his $400K if the Broncos want to sign him
JD Walton will expect a doubling at least of his $1.5million
I suspect Wesley woodyard will expect a bump of $1million on his contract.
Chris Harris could expect a 2nd Round tender offer costing an extra $1.5million
If the Broncos want DRC back at CB then he has a cap hit of $7.1million (compared to $3million next season) or $2million in dead money (in which case he would have to be replaced.
Tony Carter would cost at least $500K extra to sign.

Total hit against the salary cap will be a minimum of $20million if the Broncos were to retain all these players or replace them with others of comparable quality.

Where could they find the money - well most of the rest of the free agents from 2014 are on the minimum salaries so there is zero cap saving for those.

potential cuts are -
Mike Adams - saving $2million - but would have to be replaced
Lance Ball - saving $1.3million
Chris Clark - saving $1.3million - but further depth would be needed at OL
Knowshon Moreno - saving $2million next year if cut this off-season
Joe Mays would save $800K next year if cut this off-season
Willis McGahee would save $1million next year if cut this off-season
There is a saving of $250K of dead money from Lonie Paxton and a further $4.9million dead money from Dumervil

Chris Kuper might be cut this year saving $2.7million in the cap - plus a futher $2.7million dead money for next year.

Assuming all these cuts were made it would raise $16million in cap savings - still $4million short - and not taking into account the cost of replacements and the signing of free agents - total shortage is probably in the region of $15million.

The following season Von Miller will probalby cost a further $8million over his cap hit next season - with Thomas also costing an extra couple of million. Champ Baily is a UFA (if not resigned or retires there is a saving of $10million - but he has to be replaced) - as well as Tamme, Dreessen, Knighton, Moore, Franklin, Q. Carter and Brewer. Manning will cost $20million against the cap each year.

So I would suggest that Elway is absolutely in 'win now' mode with a window of just one year - as he will have a very tough job keeping his competitive roster together in 2014 and 2015 because of salary cap problems.

Jolly Red Giant

Brandon Colquitt has signed his FA tender and is expected to negotiate a long-term deal.

Jolly Red Giant

Here's one that snuck under the draft day hype -

Broncos sign former Charger Shaun Phillips on a one year deal worth up to $3million - Phillips will play pass rushing DE on passing downs to replace Dumervil.

poldebruin

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Here's one that snuck under the draft day hype -

Broncos sign former Charger Shaun Phillips on a one year deal worth up to $3million - Phillips will play pass rushing DE on passing downs to replace Dumervil.

I like this pickup, at 32, (contract is 1 year, up to 3m....so a big incentive there to prove worth) and only used as a specialist rusher he could ease the loss of Dumervil - perhaps some of the charger fans could weigh in with their thoughts as they would be more familiar with his overall play.

Molly

Got close to 10 sacks last year but was shocking. Those were pretty much the only pressures he got. Awful against the run last year.

Im not being bitter here. Id be disgusted if sp95 of two or three years ago signed for the broncos. The sp95 of last year i really dont care about. Was disappointing to see him take time from ingram last year

poldebruin

....well hopefully the one year nature of the contract will act as a spur, and the change of scenery might do some good also. The Chargers seemed to be in a bit of disarray last year too, I wonder if some heads dropped from midseason on?

Still if we could get 10 sacks out of a pass rushing lb/de I'd be pretty happy.