Denver Broncos Thread

kinnikinnik5

rockonollie wrote: »

Football Gods say NO!!!!

I told my wife that the Broncos were going to lose the game as soon as Manning took a knee to run out the 4th quarter......you just don't do that, not in the playoffs.

True. You have to stay aggressive to win in the playoffs. That being said 99% of the time most teams hold on to that lead with 30 seconds to go.

Leslie91

What is your opinion of Mike McCoy lads?, now that we've taken him to be our new HC. Seems like he will bring in his own OC and that person will call the plays i.e. not Mike, which has to be a very good thing.

I was looking for a tough but fair HC who will get on guys who are not performing, will Mike be this person?

spiralism

Leslie91 wrote: »

What is your opinion of Mike McCoy lads?, now that we've taken him to be our new HC. Seems like he will bring in his own OC and that person will call the plays i.e. not Mike, which has to be a very good thing.

I was looking for a tough but fair HC who will get on guys who are not performing, will Mike be this person?

Unclear. He's worked under Fox who is very much a players coach, however Fox has rapped players on the knuckles before and got the best out of them, Moreno this year being the case. McCoy's own personality is very hard to discern, he's ran three different systems in three seasons.

I wouldn't attribute much of Manning's successes this year to him though, there's a grantland article posted a page or two back here which points out that Manning is running a carbon copy of the Manning/Tom Moore offence from Indy - It's essentially identical. Not only that but we tried to implement our own elements such as two back sets and using fullbacks but binned them after the bye.

Has potential to be a good coach certainly, i think he's a solid hire. He's been very adaptable which is a good quality. However, we did consider him expendable and i don't see the offence skipping much of a beat. He wasn't overtly disliked by Broncos fans but wasn't loved either. Wait and see..

Morrisseeee

I had this piece in the Playoffs thread, but it got lost (I think) in the Perfect Patriots discussion !

Short version: looking back thru the 1st half, I think we could have closed the game out.

Now the next piece might look like I'm still looking for excuses but I'm actually just trying to analyze where it went wrong, and oh boy did the Broncos do alot of things wrong !!
I looked back at the game (1st half) last night, I was actually going to delete it , but I decided to look at it with an open mind. 1st off I have to say big kudos to the Ravens O line, they didn't give an inch, Flacco had a wall in front of him. Also kudos to their D as they were giving it 110%, especially when you see guys taking oxygen on the sideline.
So, we went 7 pts up, then came their 2 BIG plays, now it's 14-7 and if you blinked you missed some kind of big play. Then we hit form, our D stiffened up, our O got going, 2 good drives resulted in 2 TD's with excellent throws by Manning & excellent catches by Stokley & Moreno. We then held them on the next drive (Del Rio was so excited he ran onto the pitch !!).
Score: Broncos up 21-14
The next few events turn the game for me:
1. Manning then put a good drive together and we drove down to the ~35 yard line, on 2nd & 7, Thomas dropped a catch (actually the throw was a little off aswell) at their 20 and I think if he had caught it, we might just have won the game. Why? because we are now at their 20 with 4 downs, so more than likely we get a FG or even a TD and very little time for Baltimore to do anything. Start of 3rd Q and Holiday runs in another TD and if we had got 3 or 7 pts earlier, we are now looking at a nice lead with our tails up........
2. Prater misses the long FG (foot hits ground behind ball)
3. Flacco almost gets sacked but somehow manages to get the throw away and a good catch gives them 10yards
4. Another good throw & catch and the clock is at 43secs
5. Bailey gets creamed on another bomb (score now 21-21)
/and the neutral fans are enjoying a feast of a football game
6. 36secs left and we knee it out
Now I went back to point 5 above and watched it slow-motion, to see wtf happens Bailey ? how did he get it so wrong ? he's one of the smartest corners in the league.
So, the ball is thrown, Bailey is on the inside, Smith outside, as the ball is landing, both turn to see where it's at. Then things get interesting, Bailey looks to be in prime position to get an interception or a tip. Smith puts his hands all over Bailey's shoulder pads and back and also gets Bailey off-balance with a move with his leg/knee. Bailey is clearly off-balance and Smith makes a great jump & catch.
The Q I asked myself was: is that hands on the back/shoulder a PI call against Smith ?
If it's not then fair play, great move by Smith.
If it's borderline then, again, kudos to Smith for getting away with it
If it is indeed a PI call then it's a big game changer !
/note: I'm not too 'up' on the PI rules

Jolly Red Giant

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Now I went back to point 5 above and watched it slow-motion, to see wtf happens Bailey ? how did he get it so wrong ? he's one of the smartest corners in the league.
So, the ball is thrown, Bailey is on the inside, Smith outside, as the ball is landing, both turn to see where it's at. Then things get interesting, Bailey looks to be in prime position to get an interception or a tip. Smith puts his hands all over Bailey's shoulder pads and back and also gets Bailey off-balance with a move with his leg/knee. Bailey is clearly off-balance and Smith makes a great jump & catch.
The Q I asked myself was: is that hands on the back/shoulder a PI call against Smith ?
If it's not then fair play, great move by Smith.
If it's borderline then, again, kudos to Smith for getting away with it
If it is indeed a PI call then it's a big game changer !
/note: I'm not too 'up' on the PI rules

Judgement call by the officials - breakdown of rule here -
http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/passinterference

Bailey has been pilloried for the 2 TD catches by Smith - the suggestion is that he is too slow because of his age. However, Bailey held Smith to one catch for 14 yds in the regular season game and ran with him stride-for-stride during the entire game. And remember Smith is one of the fastest receivers in the league 4.44 for 40 yds and is considered one of the strongest players in the league pound-for-pound.

Bailey had an off day - it happens to the best of players - but Bailey is still a top-notch and incredibly smart player as well as being a leader in the lockerroom.

Specifically on the two plays -

First touchdown - Bailey lined up pre-snap and played with outside leverage, playing on the outside shoulder of the receiver, right throughout the play. This indicates that the coverage dictated that Bailey should have had help on the inside - in this case from Rahim Moore. Moore bit on a crossing route over the middle and was out of position to help Bailey. Now Bailey may have made a mistake on the play and should have played with inside leverage in one-on-one coverage - however, given how smart and experienced a player Bailey is I doubt there was a remote chance that it was Bailey's error. Moore is still learning to play safety and with more experience would not have opted to try and make a play on the crossing route and instead stuck to his coverage assignment.

Second touchdown - This was all on Bailey. The possibility of pass interference is irrelevent. Bailey himself said "I usually make that play, I have to make that play," - Bailey got outmuscled and accepted full responsibility for the score and letting Smith beat him to the ball.

It has been suggested that Bailey should move to safety because of his age and because of his ability to create turnovers and to tackle in the open field. When his does move to safety he will make an outstanding one. Coaches argue that when the play of a CB drops it tends to drop off dramatically. Fox has stated that he doesn't plan moving Bailey to safety, that he has full confidence in Bailey's ability to play CB. Bailey himself has said "I'm a realist ... if I see myself on tape and I think it's time to make a move, I'll know it's time to make a move, I'll be the first to see it, I'll be the first to know it." Given the service he has provided to the Broncos and the fact that he is the ultimate team player I suspect that Elway and Fox will show him the respect he deserves and will allow him to make the first move about what position he wants to play.

As an aside - the Broncos have decided not to renew the contract of Defensive Backs coach Ron Milus (apparently there was friction between Milus and some of the defensive players) and he was replaced by Cory Undlin who was a DB coach under Del Rio at Jacksonville. It appears that irrespective of how far the Broncos got in the play-offs, Milius was out the door.

Jolly Red Giant

Broncos have promoted Adam Gase from QB coach to Offensive Coordinator.

The Broncos interveiw Ken Whisenhunt and Pat Shurmer both both expressed a desire to enter the HC race as soon as possible and Elway regarded it as disruptive to only hire for potentially one season.

At McCoy's suggestion, Gase called plays in a few series late in the season in an effort to change-up during the course of a game. The experiment was regarded as something that worked well. Commenting on his appointment Gase said "I'm not nervous about calling plays...You have one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time as your quarterback — I'm excited. I'm thrilled to be able to have that opportunity. We're looking to go pedal to the metal, and play as fast as possible and be aggressive."

Jolly Red Giant

Broncos hire Greg Knapp as QBs coach to replace Gase.

PerrinV2

Any movement from the Bronco's off season with regards to players been cut/signed?

Jolly Red Giant

PerrinV2 wrote: »

Any movement from the Bronco's off season with regards to players been cut/signed?

Nothing happening yet - the key FA to be resigned is LT Ryan Clady who will either be signed to a long term deal or be slapped with the franchise tag.

Elway and Fox will probably continue the strategy of last year in focussing on the draft and signing good value experienced FAs on short term deals (Brooking, Koppen, Stokley, Leonard - all of whom contributed).

There are rumours of the Broncos trading a first and third to the Jets for for CB Darrelle Revis - but I don't see that happening - too high a price in picks and salary, coming off an ACL injury and certain off field issues.

The draft is deep in the two areas that the Broncos require help, namely DL and OL and expect them to draft a couple of DTs and OG/RT/C. There is rumours that they are looking specifically at drafting in the early rounds a DT (to replace Bannan and/or Vickerson who are free agents) and a RT and moving Franklin into his more natural position of RG where he would be more effective in the running game and not be exposed by speed rushers on the outside. Possibilities in the first round at DT include Purdue's Kawann Short, Ohio's Johnathon Hankins or at RT Alabama's DJ Fluker or Larry Warford of Kentucky at RG. Saying that, because of the depth of the draft, it is distinctly possible that Elway will trade out of the first round and accumulate picks like last year.

Jolly Red Giant

Just seen it confirmed that Ryan Clady has been tagged with the objective of working out a long term deal. Clady is coming off a shoulder injury that has raised some concerns.

Morrisseeee

What about our secondary ? do you think they'll beef up our secondary in the off-season ? If you think about the games we lost last year, our secondary wasn't top notch, and in the end cost us a Championship appearance.

Jolly Red Giant

Morrisseeee wrote: »

What about our secondary ? do you think they'll beef up our secondary in the off-season ? If you think about the games we lost last year, our secondary wasn't top notch, and in the end cost us a Championship appearance.

I don't agree that the secondary cost the Broncos - the secondary came on leaps and bounds this year. The Ravens defeated the Broncos primarily because the revamped Ravens OL held the Broncos pass rush at bay. Yes Bailey had an off day and yes Moore blew an assignment - but Moore and Harris made major strides during the season. I expect Porter to be released (his career is probably over) and I expect Denver to sign or draft for depth in the secondary - however, Denver will probably start with Bailey and Harris at CB and Adams and Moore at safety - an upgrade at the DT position (in particular) and at MLB will significantly benefit the secondary.

spiralism

Ideal offseason for me is hanging on to Clady and avoiding a major holdout, keeping Vickerson, Colquitt and Bruton, getting in one of Welker or Jennings, possibly adding Freeney too and drafting a quality MLB. Still very high on Te'o, he's the natural successor to Ray Lewis imo and the team needs a vocal leader.

Jolly Red Giant

spiralism wrote: »

Ideal offseason for me is hanging on to Clady and avoiding a major holdout, keeping Vickerson, Colquitt and Bruton, getting in one of Welker or Jennings, possibly adding Freeney too and drafting a quality MLB. Still very high on Te'o, he's the natural successor to Ray Lewis imo and the team needs a vocal leader.

Clady is going nowhere - he is being tagged and given $10million for next year - a long term deal will then be worked out.

Colquitt and Bruton (for ST skills) will be resigned

Elway has made it clear that the Bronocs are a team who build through the draft and sign savvy vets on short-term low-rate/low risk contracts to fill out the roster primarily as back-ups (e.g. Koppen, Leonard and Brooking).

I don't expect Vickerson to be a Bronco next season - there are too many needy teams that will give him more money than the Broncos will be willing to pay. As a result Bannon could be resigned on a one year deal at the vet minimum pay. Denver will also probably look to sign a veteran free agent on a short term deal at a low price (Seymour could be a possibility) and will draft at least one DT in April.

Can't see Welker or Jennings being signed - Stokley will resign on a one year deal as the slot receiver and the Broncos wil probably draft his replacement who will sit behind him for the year to learn the trade. Both Welker and, particularly, Jennings would cost too much. Denver will sign a vet WR to compete in training camp.

Elway is interviewing Te'o at the combine and if he is there at 28 I would expect the Broncos to take him. The Ravens want him too but most mocks have him going at the latest to the Giants - so if either the Broncos or the Ravens want him they would probably have to trade up. I think trading up goes against the philosophy of the Broncos front office - this draft is deep in al the areas of need for the Broncos and they are far more likely to trade out of the first round and accumulate extra picks or picks higher in the second and third rounds. Once you go past the top 10 picks there is little difference in terms of quality over the next 50/60 players and there will be very good value to have in rounds 2 and 3. The Bronocs will take the BPA at one of DL,OL,MLB,RB,WR and DB with each of their picks.

Finally - don't want Feeney and would be hopping mad if he were signed - and I doubt very much Elway, Fox and JDR would consider it. Feeney is an older and slower version of Doom and would want way too much money for the Broncos to play a situational pass rusher behind Doom. JDR was raving about Jason Hunter before his injury and I expect Hunter to be given his chance to compete this off-season.

I expect either DJ Williams or Mays (likely both) to be cap casualties - they will cost $6.5million and $4million respectively against the cap next season (Williams will cost about $1.6million if cut). DJ might stay but it will be at significantly lower numbers than his current contract.

This is a list of the Broncos Free Agents and what I expect to happen:

OT Ryan Clady - Tagged and then signed to a long term deal.
CB Tracy Porter - gone (probably to retirement because of the concussions)
RB Lance Ball - gone
DT Justin Bannan - resigned to the vet minimum (because I expect Vickerson to leave)
LB Keith Brooking - retires
S David Bruton - re-signed for ST skills
CB Tony Carter - resigned
OT Chris Clark - resigned
P Britton Colquitt - resigned
FB Chris Gronkowski - gone
DE Jason Hunter - resigned and will compete to start at DE
C Dan Koppen - should be resigned to compete with Walton but I expect him to get an offer to start for another team. Blake will be used as competition for Walton.
S Jim Leonard - gone
WR Brandon Stokley - resigned
DT Mitch Unrein - resigned
DT Kevin Vickerson - gone for more money somewhere else
DT Ty Warren - gone, and 2 years too late
WR Matt Willis - gone

spiralism

Excellent analysis JRG. Imo, given that we'll hold on to Clady and keep Bruton/Colquitt, if we were to draft Te'o i'd be happy with the offseason at any rate. Welker/Jennings would just be sweeteners. Elway does like to splash out though...just within reason. He certainly wont give crazy money to either. Michael Turner or Steven Jackson on the other hand could well be considered.

EDIT: I see that it's my 4,000th post, guess it's fitting it comes here

Jolly Red Giant

Broncos will consider moving Franklin from RT to guard where is power can benefit the run game and he isn't exposed to speed rushers on the outside. Elway has formally interviewed with Oday Aboushi, RT from Virginia, at the combine.

Britton Colquitt - a restricted free agent - looks like he will be slapped with a second-round $2million tender

Question marks over other restricted FAs and whether Lance Ball and Chris Clark will get original round tenders which would cost $1.323million - a lot of money for purely back-up players.

The Broncos will not be tendering Chris Gronkowski - as expected he is gone.

Jolly Red Giant

It looks like Elway is ruling out taking a MLB in the draft. Elway has indicated that 3rd round pick Nate Irving and undrafted Steven Johnson will be given an opportunity to win the MLB starting position. If neither demonstrates the ability to win the starters spot Elway intends to look to free agency after the off season workouts.

spiralism

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It looks like Elway is ruling out taking a MLB in the draft. Elway has indicated that 3rd round pick Nate Irving and undrafted Steven Johnson will be given an opportunity to win the MLB starting position. If neither demonstrates the ability to win the starters spot Elway intends to look to free agency after the off season workouts.

Oh jesus...that's not going to work well. We got off lucky with that last year and had Brooking fall into our laps. Took us five weeks of Joe Mays pissing down his leg before he played. I do not want a repeat of that.

Mind you, those are the only two MLBs on the roster with Brooking's deal being a short term one. He'd have to indicate as such anyways. Don't get the feeling we take Te'o now though, his stock is sliding again.

On the other hand we need secondary help and Tyrann Mathieu is likely to be around. He's extremely talented and looks to be turning his life around, we could do a lot worse.

HigginsJ

Bradie James or Chase Blackburn would be cheap(ish) short-term options for ye

spiralism

HigginsJ wrote: »

Bradie James or Chase Blackburn would be cheap(ish) short-term options for ye

I could go with either. Blackburn struggled this year though didnt he? Id far rather draft a MLB when all is said and done

Jolly Red Giant

The Broncos have officially placed a non-exclusive franchise tag on left tackle Ryan Clady.

The tag gives Clady a $9.828 million salary for the 2013 season — Teams can still bid on Clady's services, but the Broncos would have the right to match any offer. If the Broncos decline to match the offer, they would get two, first round draft picks in return from the team that would sign him.

Jolly Red Giant

spiralism wrote: »

I could go with either. Blackburn struggled this year though didnt he? Id far rather draft a MLB when all is said and done

In the JDR/Fox defensive scheme the MLB is primarily a run-stopper in first down and short yardage situations coming out in passing situations. More and more teams are using the nickle defense as the base defence because teams are adopting the 3 wideout formation as their base offence - making the MLB largely redundant. So in a 4-3 defence the role of the MLB is reducing and teams are less likely to use a high draft pick on such a player.

Jolly Red Giant

A big move by the Broncos - Elway has asked Dumervil to take a big pay cut. Doom is scheduled to make over $13.5million next year and it becomes guaranteed on 17th March. Looks like he will be cut in the next few days and the Broncos are planning a move for Freeny. Doom's cap hit will be about $1.5million if he is cut - it will be over $15million if he gets paid.

kinnikinnik5

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

A big move by the Broncos - Elway has asked Dumervil to take a big pay cut. Doom is scheduled to make over $13.5million next year and it becomes guaranteed on 17th March. Looks like he will be cut in the next few days and the Broncos are planning a move for Freeny. Doom's cap hit will be about $1.5million if he is cut - it will be over $15million if he gets paid.

His production doesn't warrant that type of money. It's probably a good move.

Jolly Red Giant

kinnikinnik5 wrote: »

His production doesn't warrant that type of money. It's probably a good move.

Another one of the contract moves by mad McDaniels

If Doom is cut expect Clady to be sorted, a few of moves in free agency probably Freeny, a CB, a DT and a RB and some money put aside for signing Miller to a big contract when his rookie contract is over.

I expect the Broncos to cut completely - or dramatically reduce - Williams salary. The Broncos would save $6million in salary cap if he is cut ($2million in dead money)

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Another one of the contract moves by mad McDaniels

Are you seriously trying to blame McDaniels for a contract?

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to blame McDaniels for a contract?

McDaniels had control over all contract negotiations when HC of the Broncos - he gave Doom a six-year $61.5million contract - way too much for a damned good player - but a player who is primarily a situational pass rusher. Now the contract wasn't all bad. It was a rolling year-to-year contract that minimised dead money on the salary cap in the event of Doom being cut - but it was too much for the type of player that Doom is. Doom has made $31.3million in the past two years - that's elite QB money and $4-6million a year more than elite DE money - and that's for a DE who can defend the run as well as rush the passer which is something Doom can't do.

kinnikinnik5

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I expect the Broncos to cut completely - or dramatically reduce - Williams salary. The Broncos would save $6million in salary cap if he is cut ($2million in dead money)

I think they were looking to trade him but no one is going to take that trade when they can just wait a year and pick him up for half the price.

Jolly Red Giant

kinnikinnik5 wrote: »

I think they were looking to trade him but no one is going to take that trade when they can just wait a year and pick him up for half the price.

They won't have to wait - Williams will be cut by the draft. The only other possibility is Williams agreeing to restructure his pay down from $8million to the vet minimum or a little more

Jolly Red Giant

The story of Chris Kuper's surgery is emerging. It looks like the metal plate they inserted to hold his ankle together shattered and they had to go in, remove all the fragments, reset all the bones and replace a new plate to hold the ankle together. I feel sorry for the guy when something like that happens. I would think there is a question mark over whether he might play again - and if he does how effective he could be with the possibility of the same thing happening again hanging over him.