Welfare for addicts

7sr2z3fely84g5

Should they be entitled to welfare?,is this a problem with our system,we give them the treatment,but thanks to the usual bureaucracy shíte in paperwork and management there does not seem to be any much help to go around.

i think there are two cases,those who are tragically caught in the grip of addiction,and others who might use it because they just seem to have no way out and use the system for advantage.

As i said i understand the tragedy it puts on families and siblings who might have parents or brothers/sisters caught in the terrible cycle.

Instead of the usual jail them or shoot them all replies,i would like to hear some methods you would recommend.

my own thoughts would be put more money into treatment of these addictions instead of giving them the temp fix of welfare until the next day of treatment arrives.

Biggins

O' good, a welfare thread.
We haven't had one of these in a while.
I'm outa here.

Bipolar Joe

In a humane society, we look after our weakest.

Legalise heroin for addicts, let them use it in the clinics with clean needles.

Their welfare can be used to pay for it (or part of).

Probably too radical an idea but it would keep the money out of dealers hands and the addicts can take heroin safely.

orourkeda

Too simplistic a "solution" to a less that simplistic issue

Saila

SW is a treatment for Alco's now

starbelgrade

I think junkies should be given make overs - they always look so shabby & have really bad skin.

Mike 1972

starbelgrade wrote: »

I think junkies should be given make overs.

At this stage it ranks as one of the better suggestions made on AH lately

Taco Corp

starbelgrade wrote: »

I think junkies should be given make overs - they always look so shabby & have really bad skin.

Do you remember that show on TG4 where 3 lads would pick an outfit for some girl? And they'd all speak in a language that most people couldn't understand. They could do something like that with junkies. They should team up with Lifestyle Sports and get this show on TV.

MungBean

All well and good to point the finger at junkies and alchos but any person who spends their dole on feeding a habit is the same. Whether it be fags, fast food, drink, drugs, gambling, clothes, games. Why is someone addicted to alcohol a worse person than someone who's addicted to sitting on their arse playing games ? When its in relation to welfare then all of the above are a waste of money.

If you want to deny a junkie his dole because of what he might spend it on then you have to deny EVERYONE else too if they might spend their on something pointless. I know buying illegal drugs with state money is worse than buying the new GTA or whatever but in relation to welfare it all boils down to wasting state money.

Lots of people get caught in cycles and get further and further from society and rejoining the workforce.

Tehachapi

Surley wrote: »

Do you remember that show on TG4 where 3 lads would pick an outfit for some girl? And they'd all speak in a language that most people couldn't understand. They could do something like that with junkies. They should team up with Lifestyle Sports and get this show on TV.

Paisean Faisean

WonderWoman!

Whoever created the above poll .You disgust me !.

Of course they deserve welfare they are vulnerable people ,they need to live too
Everyone in our society is equal whether you like or not and everyone has the right to their independence

starviewadams

IBTL.

Chuck Stone

Do people ever even try to think out how stopping welfare for addicts would be achieved if it were deemed desireable?

You would need huge amounts of resources to set up a complex statutory apparatus to micro manage the lives of addicts.

That would mean more public sector workers and 'experts' who would have to be paid by the the tax-payer.

Also, at least when the addict is spending his/her welfare money on their vice there is less need for them to commit crimes against persons and property or take up prostitution or drug dealing.

The alternative to allowing addicts to continue collecting their welfare payments, it appears, would be much worse than the status quo.

Logical Fallacy

Jonah Some Flesh wrote: »

Should they be entitled to welfare?.

Given that their are no laws about what people spend their welfare on then yes, they should.

Doublin

Shoot them all, waste of space, then lets move onto the next section of society not pulling their weight..

tmi

of course addicts should get welfare if they never how would they get their fix

UsernameInUse

orourkeda wrote: »

Too simplistic a "solution" to a less that simplistic issue

Actually, it's a very simple solution.

The criminalisation of heroin keeps the street value very high. Therefore, addicts may go through hundreds per week to fund their habits. This means that society in general suffers from criminality in order for the addict to get his/her fix. The drug dealer in general is the good guy - although the media will tell you otherwise. Dealing in an illegitimate business means there are no barriers to entry. Thus, there may well be thousands of heroin dealers on the street at this very moment. All these dealers are competing and in turn, keep the cost of heroin as low as they can. It is, for all intents and purposes, the government who is prolonging the criminality by keeping these narcotics illegal in the first place.

Regardless of whether or not a substance is illegal, the sudden legalisation of it would not encourage sound minded people to go next or near what they understand to be an addictive drug. Truth be told, it wouldn't matter if it was illegal or not, if someone wanted to try heroin, they would find it. The teenagers, the dealers and the murdered are very much the innocent victims in this situation - they are playing the hand they have been dealt; there is a product in demand and they are supplying it for a wage. The person who willingly injects an addictive substance into their body is not an innocent victim - and I have far more sympathy for the people being mowed down by a drive-by shooting than an addict that, by consent, used a dangerous substance.

Heroin should be legal. It would kill gangland and all the criminal activities that go along with that. It would stop the murders and violence on our streets.

Warper

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Actually, it's a very simple solution.

The criminalisation of heroin keeps the street value very high. Therefore, addicts may go through hundreds per week to fund their habits. This means that society in general suffers from criminality in order for the addict to get his/her fix. The drug dealer in general is the good guy - although the media will tell you otherwise. Dealing in an illegitimate business means there are no barriers to entry. Thus, there may well be thousands of heroin dealers on the street at this very moment. All these dealers are competing and in turn, keep the cost of heroin as low as they can. It is, for all intents and purposes, the government who is prolonging the criminality by keeping these narcotics illegal in the first place.

Regardless of whether or not a substance is illegal, the sudden legalisation of it would not encourage sound minded people to go next or near what they understand to be an addictive drug. Truth be told, it wouldn't matter if it was illegal or not, if someone wanted to try heroin, they would find it. The teenagers, the dealers and the murdered are very much the innocent victims in this situation - they are playing the hand they have been dealt; there is a product in demand and they are supplying it for a wage. The person who willingly injects an addictive substance into their body is not an innocent victim - and I have far more sympathy for the people being mowed down by a drive-by shooting than an addict that, by consent, used a dangerous substance.

Heroin should be legal. It would kill gangland and all the criminal activities that go along with that. It would stop the murders and violence on our streets.

Oh good God. Do you remember when head-shop products were legal? The amount of people that were taking the stuff every weekend when they would never have went off and bought coke or whatever was crazy. If heroin was legal it would make thousands of junkies and society would be even more fcuked than it is now. Do you realise how addictive it is? All it takes is a few too many hits at the weekend and the craving starts and then Good night Vienna. I think the people that advocate legalising all drugs really have no first hand experience of drugs and their problems at all.

Sunnyisland

As Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion a year and rising - that’s a cost of €3,318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland (source alcohol action Ireland)That's more than all the other so called junkie drugs going around put together,So maybe when we tackle the main addiction problem in this country which is alcohol abuse then we can do something about the other addictions or would that be to easy.

CrackisWhack

We should also cut welfare to the morbidly obese, wasting all their SW on food

4Sheets

How would define an alcho or an addict?
I reckon welfare should if possible be maintained at least for the next year..could road hedge trimming or replacing the perfectly fine speed ramps on boot rd with other speed ramps type projects be shelved instead..I m glad the biometric cards are coming in..that whole system is a fly trap and needs to tightened up..at least the alchos and druggies will be too xhausted to trash the town

charlemont

rarnes1 wrote: »

Legalise heroin for addicts, let them use it in the clinics with clean needles.

Their welfare can be used to pay for it (or part of).

Probably too radical an idea but it would keep the money out of dealers hands and the addicts can take heroin safely.

Too clever an idea for this country.

Mike 1972

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Dealing in an illegitimate business means there are no barriers to entry.

Really ?

You should give it a try it. Undercut the local competition and let us know how you get on :eek:

Warper wrote: »

I think the people that advocate legalising all drugs really have no first hand experience of drugs and their problems at all.

Hardly.

I know lots of people who take all manner of drugs and none of them would dream of touching heroin even though they wouldnt have much trouble getting their hands on it.

dvpower

WonderWoman! wrote: »

Whoever created the above poll .You disgust me !.

Of course they deserve welfare they are vulnerable people ,they need to live too
Everyone in our society is equal whether you like or not and everyone has the right to their independence

The OP wants them to be independent of the state.

Mr Benevolent

Cut people's only source of income and crime will increase. the cost of dealing with the crimes will probably outweigh the decrease in social welfare achieved by cutting them off in the first place. You need to think about this more, OP.

Oh good God. Do you remember when head-shop products were legal? The amount of people that were taking the stuff every weekend when they would never have went off and bought coke or whatever was crazy. If heroin was legal it would make thousands of junkies and society would be even more fcuked than it is now. Do you realise how addictive it is? All it takes is a few too many hits at the weekend and the craving starts and then Good night Vienna. I think the people that advocate legalising all drugs really have no first hand experience of drugs and their problems at all

And you don't appear to know much about drug decriminalisation.

WonderWoman!

Taking Welfare off them isn't the right way about it .

A vast majority take drugs because they are board why not give the bank managers and the politicians a significant pay cut and set up a more efficient jobs initiative then tax the rich to the high heavens and Use remaining money to create a better Mental Health initiative to combat depression which often leads to dependancy

A job could do wonders for some drug addicts
could give them something to get up for. They need that money to live . Everyone deserves a fighting chance at life .

What about some teenagers who have no intention of going to college and spend their dole money on cans for the week , why not take their welfare cos to be honest it pays to go on the dole rather than getting a grant .

TheZohanS

Did you know that a heroin addict has to be clean for 6 months before they can go on a methadone programme?

dvpower

WonderWoman! wrote: »

Taking Welfare off them isn't the right way about it .

Agreed. But paying them welfare ad infinitum with no strings attached also isn't.

WonderWoman! wrote: »

A vast majority take drugs because they are board why not give the bank managers and the politicians a significant pay cut and set up a more efficient jobs initiative then tax the rich to the high heavens and Use remaining money to create a better Mental Health initiative to combat depression which often leads to dependancy

If people are getting addicted to drugs because they're bored, we might make their lives more interesting by cutting their payments.

WonderWoman! wrote: »

A job could do wonders for some drug addicts
could give them something to get up for. They need that money to live .

Who's going to employ an addict in this economy?

WonderWoman! wrote: »

Everyone deserves a fighting chance at life .

A chance yes. Maybe two or three. But a lifetime of chances?

WonderWoman! wrote: »

What about some teenagers who have no intention of going to college and spend their dole money on cans for the week , why not take their welfare cos to be honest it pays to go on the dole rather than getting a grant .

C'mon. Anyone who chooses to go on the dole rather than take up a grant to go to college is a bit if a leech.

Mike 1972

TheZohan wrote: »

Did you know that a heroin addict has to be clean for 6 months before they can go on a methadone programme?

Sunnyisland

The Zohan wrote: »

Did you know that a heroin addict has to be clean for 6 months before they can go on a methadone programme?

Not being funny but clean of what ? Do they not go straight onto methadone to get them of heroin and are then suppose to wean themselves of the methadone but in reality the majority of them stay on the doses for ever.

dvpower

TheZohan wrote: »

Did you know that a heroin addict has to be clean for 6 months before they can go on a methadone programme?

How does that work? Do they have to acquire someone else's urine for 6 months?

TheZohanS

realies wrote: »

Not being funny but clean of what ? Do they not go straight onto methadone to get them of heroin and are then suppose to wean themselves of the methadone but in reality the majority of them stay on the doses for ever.

Nope. They have to stop using for heroin for 6 months before they can go on a programme. They're tested weekly before and during the programme.

doolox

If we were discussing people with disabilities the tenor of this thread would be regarded as facist or worse.

Medical science has not established that addicts are to blame for their situation so the benefit of doubt should be given to them until it can be proven that withdrawing assistance might work.

Their dependents should be completely removed from the removal of aid and, hopefully, it should be possible to find a responsible adult to look after them.

Often it is very difficult to separate family members from the person affected by the addiction so the by using blunt measures more than the immediate "wrongdoer", if they are to be classed as "wrongdoers" at all, are affected.

Comprehensive revision of constitutional measures regarding the family unit, rights of people affected by addictions, mental health etc needs to be done but the present political persons have bigger fish to fry.......

WonderWoman!

dvpower wrote: »

Agreed.
Who's going to employ an addict in this economy?
.

I meant a reformed addict
and anyone with a shred of decency

Sunnyisland

One of the biggest issue in addressing heroin addiction lies in the lack of a custodial drug-treatment centre. It was provided for in the 1977 Misuse of Drugs Act, but 34 years later it has yet to come to pass.So as the addicts get locked up they are in the same or maybe even worse situations as they would be out on the streets and the circle keeps going around and getting bigger.

Oh_Noes

Surley wrote: »

Do you remember that show on TG4 where 3 lads would pick an outfit for some girl? And they'd all speak in a language that most people couldn't understand. They could do something like that with junkies. They should team up with Lifestyle Sports and get this show on TV.

The girl was usual a yoke too.

dvpower

WonderWoman! wrote: »

I meant a reformed addict
and anyone with a shred of decency

I'm not a mind reader.

WonderWoman! wrote: »

A job could do wonders for some drug addicts
could give them something to get up for. They need that money to live .

A reformed addict no problem. They play on the same pitch as the rest of us.

previous user

On a more serious note, they should definately introduce the program
for addicts whereby they get their social if they allow themselves to be sterilized
lets face it these peoples lives aren't going to improve and neither is their kids, time
to break the cycle of misery for them and society and possibly extend this to
longterm unemployed on council estates, there is no hope for these people.

Sunnyisland

The Zohan wrote: »

Nope. They have to stop using for heroin for 6 months before they can go on a programme. They're tested weekly before and during the programme.

Yes they stop taking heroin but they go straight on to menthone controlled by there local doc or clinic,as if they just stopped everything for 6 months they wouldent need to go on methadone. To be corrected.

Hank_Jones

TheZohan wrote: »

Did you know that a heroin addict has to be clean for 6 months before they can go on a methadone programme?

Bloody hell, that's terrible, methadone for all. :pac:

It's clearly the answer to all our problems.

7sr2z3fely84g5

realies wrote: »

Yes they stop taking heroin but they go straight on to menthone controlled by there local doc or clinic,as if they just stopped everything for 6 months they wouldent need to go on methadone. To be corrected.

my understanding its not that straight forward,cold turkey *thats withdrawal for those not familiar with this term* is supposed to be an awful situation,i would believe it since they have a methadone program in the joy which restores law and order in the prison such is the amount of addicts locked up.

Other knock on effect is the cluster of addicts that go to certain clinics which can be nuisance for business owners.

WonderWoman!

dvpower wrote: »

I'm not a mind reader.

I thought it would have been pretty obvious I wasn't on bout someone off their face on heroin

Sunnyisland

previous user wrote: »

On a more serious note, they should definitely introduce the program
for addicts whereby they get their social if they allow themselves to be sterilized
lets face it these peoples lives aren't going to improve and neither is their kids, time
to break the cycle of misery for them and society and possibly extend this to
long term unemployed on council estates, there is no hope for these people.

Richard Lewis, Richard Pryor and George Carlin. Sir Anthony Hopkins has managed to stay clean and sober for over 30 years now and there are many more including politicians,http://gooseberrybush.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/famous-alcoholics-addicts/

As for your last part about long term unemployed, I feel sad for the likes of you with that mentality.Its all in front of you and I hope there is someone there to help you.

TheZohanS

realies wrote: »

Yes they stop taking heroin but they go straight on to menthone controlled by there local doc or clinic,as if they just stopped everything for 6 months they wouldent need to go on methadone. To be corrected.

Are you 100% sure about that? I have a friend that's a pharmacist and they tell me that heroin users have to be 6 months clean before they can attend their clinic.

Chuck Stone

doolox wrote: »

Medical science has not established that addicts are to blame for their situation

And probably can't.

Icemancometh

TheZohan wrote: »

Are you 100% sure about that? I have a friend that's a pharmacist and they tell me that heroin users have to be 6 months clean before they can attend their clinic.

Don't know the specifics, but it doesn't make any sense. It's harder to quit methadone than heroin. If you were clean for 6 months, why go back to methadone?

pragmatic1

If they arent paid welfare they'll get the money somewhere else and it wont be pretty.

7sr2z3fely84g5

pragmatic1 wrote: »

If they arent paid welfare they'll get the money somewhere else and it wont be pretty.

Surely they would have it spent in a day or paying off a dealer?.

Sunnyisland

The Zohan wrote: »

Are you 100% sure about that? I have a friend that's a pharmacist and they tell me that heroin users have to be 6 months clean before they can attend their clinic.

95% Yes your friend is right,they have to be clean of heroin & coke Before there accepted by a clinic where they can get the methadone daily,they must give clean urines daily, But as there waiting for the clinic they must have something to stop the massive withdrawals one would get,so they have there own doctor who will prescribe physeptone which is another heroin substitute,The goal of all this is to wean them of heroin unto methadone and unto being clean.If they could stop dead for 6 months they wouldent need any of this.

previous user

realies wrote: »

Richard Lewis, Richard Pryor and George Carlin. Sir Anthony Hopkins has managed to stay clean and sober for over 30 years now and there are many more including politicians,http://gooseberrybush.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/famous-alcoholics-addicts/

As for your last part about long term unemployed, I feel sad for the likes of you with that mentality.Its all in front of you and I hope there is someone there to help you.

Why do you feel sad for me, you're the one thats deluded if you think addicts and long term unemployed are a benefit to themselves, their family or society.