Gambling is for cool people

alan27nologo

Having worked in 3 different bookmakers for over 10 years I have realised that to take part in gambling on a daily basis you may as well be wizzing your money against the wall. The odds are completely packed against you and people will actually convince themselves that its worthwhile to gamble. These bookmakers make loads of money all off peoples losing bets. Think about it the next time your in a Paddy Power or A Boylesport who do you think is paying the rent the bills and the staff wages.

UrbanSea

People who are losing.

premierstone

To say Gambling is for fools is far too wide sweeping and generic, yes 99% of the guys who are in bookie shops every day of the week are idiots and are loosing money hand over fist, this is probably what you witnessed, but there are others who are selective on their gambling and only bet on sports/areas where they feel they have an edge, you probably wont see these guys in a bookies.

I gamble, primarily on GAA, Rugby and Golf with the odd very selective bet on NH racing but I cant remember hte last time I was in a bookies, probably last March, for the first race in chelt, just for the atmosphere! I keep records and logs of all my bets and I can guarantee you I am not a loosing punter and there are many more like me, a few here Im sure.

alan27nologo

I dont believe this as iif your a winning gambler online they just clse you down.

ft9

Betfair

ft9

Here is proof that you can be profitable, online, without Betfair even

shawnee

alan27nologo wrote: »

Having worked in 3 different bookmakers for over 10 years I have realised that to take part in gambling on a daily basis you may as well be wizzing your money against the wall. The odds are completely packed against you and people will actually convince themselves that its worthwhile to gamble. These bookmakers make loads of money all off peoples losing bets. Think about it the next time your in a Paddy Power or A Boylesport who do you think is paying the rent the bills and the staff wages.

Well you could say the same thing when you go to a pub, game, or indeed to any form of entertainment. Who pays the bills !!! Some people use these offices as an outlet to meet a few mates and take a chance that they might make a few bob while watching sport. There are some who are overdo it jusk like the pub

premierstone

alan27nologo wrote: »

I dont believe this as iif your a winning gambler online they just clse you down.

I have multiple accounts, I use Betfair for all my Golf bets and most of the Rugby, PP have restricted my account and I am having problems getting GAA bets on although William Hill are allowing them at the minute, Clare minors will ensure this continues for a while :mad:

jkelly85

Oh there is ways of making money on gambling. You need to have a account with all the bookies and most important betfair were you can lay off bets.

Just keeping to the sport you have the edge on is a key aswel

Never bet on sports you don't know

albert kidd

its like everything in life..if you put the work/effort in theres rewards.

Speak Now

alan27nologo wrote: »

Having worked in 3 different bookmakers for over 10 years I have realised that to take part in gambling on a daily basis you may as well be wizzing your money against the wall. The odds are completely packed against you and people will actually convince themselves that its worthwhile to gamble. These bookmakers make loads of money all off peoples losing bets. Think about it the next time your in a Paddy Power or A Boylesport who do you think is paying the rent the bills and the staff wages.

Wow is that how it works :pac:

CiaranC

premierstone wrote: »

I am not a loosing punter and there are many more like me, a few here Im sure.

I doubt there are "many like you". Anyone have any figures on what percentage of regular punters are in profit?

premierstone

CiaranC wrote: »

I doubt there are "many like you". Anyone have any figures on what percentage of regular punters are in profit?

Well what does ''many'' mean?, I guess I know what you mean, tbh I have no idea what % of gamblers would be in profit, most have no idea themselves becasue they dont keep detailed records if any at all and a large number also delude themselves into thinking they are winning punters, rememeber the big wins but selectivley forget all the times they walked out of the shop pennyless.

I guess from my own experience I know about 20 regular punters and I would say only 3, myself included, are in profit, I have nothing to back up my belief that the other two are in profit only basing this on dicussion groups we hold and info we share, but we are definitely the only 3 who actually put a bit of effort into it and see it as a second job rather than a passtime.

The_Kew_Tour

alan27nologo wrote: »

Having worked in 3 different bookmakers for over 10 years I have realised that to take part in gambling on a daily basis you may as well be wizzing your money against the wall. The odds are completely packed against you and people will actually convince themselves that its worthwhile to gamble. These bookmakers make loads of money all off peoples losing bets. Think about it the next time your in a Paddy Power or A Boylesport who do you think is paying the rent the bills and the staff wages.

Like you I have worked in bookies myself for two summers while in in college. I have seen what people get up to and all that. I also fell into the trap of thinking its easy money when things go well. I was lucky in the fact that the place I worked the some punters had some great links to trainers and were doing well. I followed and won quite a bit, but it did not last forever. Things went downhill but I was lucky that I was still on profit.

What the bookies want is you to do their special bets like Lucky 15, Yankees and that awful Union Jack bet(whatever else you do stay well away from that one folks).

Now I bet on what I seem to have good knowledge in which is Golf, Football, GAA and Boxing. I keep a record of my bets and at end of every month or so I see where I might be going right or wrong. I will never be able to give up the day job thats for sure. I am not a big gambler anyway 5win/place be biggest bet I have on golf and 20quid on gaa or football..

The big thing for me though is value..I always make sure that the odds I am betting on are better then what I think they should be otherwise I stay well alone. In Golf I tend to have 2-3 players every year which I will follow and keep the belief that they will win soon enough which has done me great service over last few years. I have only had 2 bets on GAA this year.One was Kildare -2 points against Laois which I taught was unreal value(easy on hindsight) but came in and that's with me looking at odds for every GAA match this year.

Another big thing is never to back more then you can afford. I wont back on sport every week I dont feel like I need to bet

Lastly I never bet on anything more then double and 90% time when backing in football say, I will only do single(s) bet and stay well away from those accums which are bookies heaven.

UrbanSea

About 2% iirc

The_Kew_Tour

premierstone wrote: »

Well what does ''many'' mean?, I guess I know what you mean, tbh I have no idea what % of gamblers would be in profit, most have no idea themselves becasue they dont keep detailed records if any at all and a large number also delude themselves into thinking they are winning punters, rememeber the big wins but selectivley forget all the times they walked out of the shop pennyless.

I guess from my own experience I know about 20 regular punters and I would say only 3, myself included, are in profit, I have nothing to back up my belief that the other two are in profit only basing this on dicussion groups we hold and info we share, but we are definitely the only 3 who actually put a bit of effort into it and see it as a second job rather than a passtime.

I think this is key if you back regularly is to keep records..I was amazed at where I was going wrong with bets till I stated doing it, like others I taught I was doing better then I was making out. I have kept records for past 4 years and you will really surprise yourself at what you do right and wrong..

jive

Gambling isn't for fools but thinking that you can continue making money in the long term is for fools unless you have some insider information. The thing about bookies is as soon as you find a way to consistently win money they will limit your account. I have had my account limited on Stan James, Will Hill and Paddy Power. The only other bookie I've used is Bet365. I use Betfair more often than not.

Basically for the man hours I would have to put in to make money wouldn't make it worth while anymore because I can't bet online off my own card. I could use other peoples cards and give them money for it but that is simply too much effort setting up accounts and handing them cash, just too messy for it to work. Bookies only like taking your money and if you start winning that's the end of that. It's a pity that joe soap on the street doesn't know this and it's a pity that the bookies are allowed to do it.

johnmcdnl

jive wrote: »

Gambling isn't for fools but thinking that you can continue making money in the long term is for fools unless you have some insider information. The thing about bookies is as soon as you find a way to consistently win money they will limit your account. I have had my account limited on Stan James, Will Hill and Paddy Power. The only other bookie I've used is Bet365. I use Betfair more often than not.

Basically for the man hours I would have to put in to make money wouldn't make it worth while anymore because I can't bet online off my own card. I could use other peoples cards and give them money for it but that is simply too much effort setting up accounts and handing them cash, just too messy for it to work. Bookies only like taking your money and if you start winning that's the end of that. It's a pity that joe soap on the street doesn't know this and it's a pity that the bookies are allowed to do it.

I just surprised it's legal tbh - maybe if your laying the house on 100/1 horses once in a while that'd be pretty suspicious in fairness so that'd be a genuine concern but I assume most people here and in general who have accounts limited aren't getting races or sports events fixed...

CiaranC

jive wrote: »

it's a pity that the bookies are allowed to do it.

Are you suggesting that bookies should be forced to take on any wager anyone wants? You do realise this would bankrupt the industry overnight and cost tens of thousands of jobs?

johnmcdnl

CiaranC wrote: »

Are you suggesting that bookies should be forced to take on any wager anyone wants? You do realise this would bankrupt the industry overnight and cost tens of thousands of jobs?

if someone is good at picking winners of games of soccer or whatever don't let them bet at all :rolleyes:

but if your ****e let them bet every last penny they have


to save the industry and all that

premierstone

johnmcdnl wrote: »

if someone is good at picking winners of games of soccer or whatever don't let them bet at all :rolleyes:

but if your ****e let them bet every last penny they have


to save the industry and all that

In fairness its called running a bussiness they provide a service and they can refuse that service to whoever they like, Iv had it done to me plenty, part and parcel of the game IMO, and the beauty of Betfair.

jive

CiaranC wrote: »

Are you suggesting that bookies should be forced to take on any wager anyone wants? You do realise this would bankrupt the industry overnight and cost tens of thousands of jobs?

No but why limit accounts to €7-€11 euro bets on everything and anything? I've had many accounts closed and it's probably due to taking the best industry prices. Why offer the prices if you're going to limit the account if the person keeps taking the best prices?

Are you suggesting it's fair that win or lose they will limit your account just because you aren't gambling like a moron? The odds are heavily in the bookies favour to begin with and that fact that they limit anyone who bets in a way they think may lose them money in the long run is stupid. Of course the bookies will always win if they only take money off losing accounts. What kind of service is that offering? You lose, welcome back. You win, you're barred.

They are long enough in the tooth to know that people aren't betting on fixed events when limiting most accounts. They do it because potentially they see this person may win money in the long run due to their choices.

CiaranC

jive wrote:

Are you suggesting it's fair that win or lose they will limit your account just because you aren't gambling like a moron?

Why do you think it has to be "fair"? Bookmakers exist to make a profit, like any other business, not to be "fair".

Do you go on Betfair looking to lay punters with "fairness" in mind? Of course you dont.

jive

CiaranC wrote: »

Why do you think it has to be "fair"? Bookmakers exist to make a profit, like any other business, not to be "fair".

Do you go on Betfair looking to lay punters with "fairness" in mind? Of course you dont.

Because they offer a service and they advertise a service. The terms and conditions are half a mile long and filled with mumbo jumbo. It is not common knowledge to average joe on the street that if he starts winning they won't take his bets. If you're winning that's it, no go. What is the point of gambling if there can only be one outcome? It's not gambling when it's clearly a certainty you will lose with bookies. You may as well be burning your money.

Betfair is an exchange so it isn't really comparable.

Healio

jive wrote: »

It is not common knowledge to average joe on the street that if he starts winning they won't take his bets. If you're winning that's it, no go.

Thats only a half truth, not all winners are restricted. I've seen people who threw shedloads away every week, and one day clicked a big accum that would have put them well ahead. They were not told to never comeback, like you seen to be perpetuating.

jive

Healio wrote: »

Thats only a half truth, not all winners are restricted. I've seen people who threw shedloads away every week, and one day clicked a big accum that would have put them well ahead. They were not told to never comeback, like you seen to be perpetuating.

I back online. I imagine it's much harder to track in shops where you can go to multiple shops and you won't really be recognised unless you are making a killing. You can only go to one website unfortunately and it is all tracked on your account. And I wouldn't want to break the T's and C's by opening other accounts on other cards :P

CiaranC

jive wrote: »

Because they offer a service and they advertise a service.

What does that mean?

Betfair is an exchange so it isn't really comparable.

What do you mean an exchange isnt comparable. Is a pro layer on betfair expected to be "fair" to you and let you win or not? Or is it just High Street bookies?

jive

CiaranC wrote: »

What does that mean?


What do you mean an exchange isnt comparable. Is a pro layer on betfair expected to be "fair" to you and let you win or not? Or is it just High Street bookies?

It's pretty simple to understand. They offer to take wagers on events. This is called gambling on said events. However, it isn't gambling if there can only be one outcome.

How is an exchange comparable? You are betting against each other and the exchange takes commission. You don't get limited or restricted. It's an exchange. How can a layer be fair? What does that even mean? If I give him odds and he takes them then great. If he wins then tough shít, I had the choice. Bookies don't give you a choice and therefore they cannot lose.

I think folks that don't use exchanges are really missing out, why bother stressing about internet betting sites closing your account. Hard enough to pick winners etc without worrying about getting you next bet on.

Cool thread though OP :pac:

ft9

Those of you who worked in the industry, what did ye do? On the counter or traders or????

I'd love to work on the counter of a bookies, couldn't think of a better job actually, all that stops me is the hours. I would want all of Cheltenham off, all of Galway off, all weekends off, ha couldn't see that going down too well!

Would be a cool job though.

The lads in my local betting office are a great bunch, one of them has set up a fantasy premier league mini league yoke for us. Tough job in the summer though, with the late opening, they get decent info from time to time too. Not a bad job by any stretch of the imagination though.

CiaranC

jive wrote: »

If I give him odds and he takes them then great. If he wins then tough shít, I had the choice.

Very good youve got it. Anyone who runs a book has a choice who and what they lay, beit a high street bookie, oncourse bookie, spread bettor, pool or exchange layer. Their only responsibility is to balance the book, not to your bizarre and naive ideas of "fairness". This is the essense of bookmaking, without it there would be no point in doing it.

jive

CiaranC wrote: »

Very good youve got it. Anyone who runs a book has a choice who and what they lay, beit a high street bookie, oncourse bookie, spread bettor, pool or exchange layer. Their only responsibility is to balance the book, not to your bizarre and naive ideas of "fairness". This is the essense of bookmaking, without it there would be no point in doing it.

Yes but there has to some liquidation. Betting on big events which obviously have large market depths and I am restrict to single digit stakes. What the bookies do is restrict those who they think have the potential to be a winning account in the long run, even when betting on events where it is obvious that there will be no fixing or any valuable insider information. This is, in my opinion, why it is 'unfair'.

Derek!

Personally I dont see how people winnin money from a bookies is so bad.
Think about it they will always be in profit anyway cause the vast majority of people lose.

youcrazyjesus!

OP stop boring me. I know several people making a good full time living off betting.

heavyballs

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

OP stop boring me. I know several people making a good full time living off betting.

I don't believe you,or your mates

youcrazyjesus!

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

OP stop boring me. I know several people making a good full time living off betting.

I know a couple who trade on the exchanges for a living, I don't know any pro punters though. I don't class trading as gambling, rightly or wrongly

Dailynaps

jive wrote: »

Yes but there has to some liquidation. Betting on big events which obviously have large market depths and I am restrict to single digit stakes. What the bookies do is restrict those who they think have the potential to be a winning account in the long run, even when betting on events where it is obvious that there will be no fixing or any valuable insider information. This is, in my opinion, why it is 'unfair'.

If winning accounts weren't restricted, there would be no betting industry and all the bookmakers would go bankrupt, probably within days.

Assuming you're a winning punter, if you back a horse on an exchange you only do so because you know it's value in the long-run. So you are only taking money off losing punters and limiting winning punters by not backing poor value horses.

jive

Dailynaps wrote: »

If winning accounts weren't restricted, there would be no betting industry and all the bookmakers would go bankrupt, probably within days.

I'd hazard a guess that <2% of accounts are winning accounts. I know the industry wouldn't work if they took any and every bet (especially if there is the suspicion that a person has inside info on events). But to limit accounts where not much money is being staked to begin with (€10-100) and not much money is being won (if any) to 5s and 10s is ridiculous, IMO. Just because you don't back United at 1/6 every weekend shouldn't be reason to limit an account. I know it's how the industry works/prospers(not even going to use the word survives with regards to bookies) but it's not exactly fair.

If you asked me a year ago I'd have said it was possible to make money from gambling but the reality of the industry is that it's not unless you have insider information and use an exchange. You might win money but for the research/time you'd have to put in to win it it wouldn't be worth it. Unless of course you can be arsed opening up new accounts with bookmakers with different cards every couple of months when you get limited. I just use gambling as a hobby now, I enjoy it and don't use it as a means to make proper money any more (although I like to win and get some money for my efforts just like anyone else!). It's enjoyable for me and makes things more exciting especially as a neutral. It's also nice to win a bet due to some sound reasoning prior to an event taking place and get one over on the bookies :P

The best way to win money gambling is to open a bookmakers!! Some people put on some crazy bets It's probably possible for some people to make a living trading on betfair but I'd die young with the stress that'd come with it if I was even capable of doing that for a living :pac:

AstonMartin

Why did you choose that title for your thread?

johnmcdnl

AstonMartin wrote: »

Why did you choose that title for your thread?

I think one of the mods editted it if I'm not mistaken it was originally "gamblings if for fools" or something to that degree :pac:

johnmcdnl

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I think one of the mods editted it ...................

:cool:

GEM_13

ft9 wrote: »

Those of you who worked in the industry, what did ye do? On the counter or traders or????

I'd love to work on the counter of a bookies, couldn't think of a better job actually, all that stops me is the hours. I would want all of Cheltenham off, all of Galway off, all weekends off, ha couldn't see that going down too well!

Would be a cool job though.

FT9,i have worked in betting shops,pubs and in a major supermarket-trust me,the betting shop was the worst of the lot.I think the reason for this is the fact that most of the time,the customer is getting nothing for the money when they hand it over.It ends up as a piece of rubbish in the bin.Don't get me wrong-there are some really nice punters out there but for every 1 of those,there are 4 a55holes.

Betting shops are just like banks-they hold ur money and if they get to keep more than they pay out,thats a result.I have noticed guys proud as punch coming up to collect a winner(after 5 or 6 previous losers)and they burning the ear of some guy alongside them telling him about the bet.It's the whole"i beat the bookie buzz".The next time you are tempted to do this,keep this in mind....

IT'S PROBABLY HIS MONEY YOU'RE TAKING AND HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU WON-BECAUSE IF HE LOST YOU ARE POCKETING HIS MONEY.

It is a win-win situation for the bookies.They will always make money and that's because there will always be guys trying to "Beat the bookie".For 99% of guys,this just isn't possible.If you want to make money you can't be emotional about losing money which most average punters are...

GEM_13

GEM_13 wrote: »

..............They will always make money and that's because there will always be guys trying to "Beat the bookie".For 99% of guys,this just isn't possible.If you want to make money you can't be emotional about losing money which most average punters are...

Excellent point, conceptually if you can persuade yourself that losers are part of the game and without them you can't have any winners you are on the road to being some way emotion free about them. The old staking plan in conjunction with that are essential tools to making a few quid. A betting office buddy of mine had a €300 treble on at the weekend, Celtic at 2/11 lost and his docket was dead. Why anyone would throw a 2/11 shot into a docket to make the overall odds 1/1 is beyond my comprehension (thankfully) but how people repeatedly do this chasing lark over and over again does play right into the bookies hands.

pakalasa

I've just read through this thread. One thing I'm baffled by, why are people talking about gambling at the bookies when they can get higher odds on Betfair and the like.
Surely, one of the golden rules of gambling is to get the highest odds, you possible can.:rolleyes:

mixed up

pakalasa wrote: »

I've just read through this thread. One thing I'm baffled by, why are people talking about gambling at the bookies when they can get higher odds on Betfair and the like.
Surely, one of the golden rules of gambling is to get the highest odds, you possible can.:rolleyes:

I only usually use betfair to lay a horse i rather back horse wit (BOG) incase the horse drifts and if they reverse the decision i'll still get paid in the bookies.I just think im better off with (BOG) as i don't think the price is much better than the bookies unless i'm backing a real outsider

CiaranC

pakalasa wrote: »

I've just read through this thread. One thing I'm baffled by, why are people talking about gambling at the bookies when they can get higher odds on Betfair and the like.

This isnt really true any more.

BF arent even close to best price on any fav at kempton tonight for example. Thats before you take out the 5% commission.

premierstone

pakalasa wrote: »

I've just read through this thread. One thing I'm baffled by, why are people talking about gambling at the bookies when they can get higher odds on Betfair and the like.
Surely, one of the golden rules of gambling is to get the highest odds, you possible can.:rolleyes:

mixed up wrote: »

I only usually use betfair to lay a horse i rather back horse wit (BOG) incase the horse drifts and if they reverse the decision i'll still get paid in the bookies.I just think im better off with (BOG) as i don't think the price is much better than the bookies unless i'm backing a real outsider

CiaranC wrote: »

This isnt really true any more.

BF arent even close to best price on any fav at kempton tonight for example. Thats before you take out the 5% commission.

Depends what your betting on really, for many sports there is absolutely no liquidity in the market and alot of the time the as Ciaran says the % difference in price is offset by the commission (5% is a little off as it drops based on your activity).

All that said I would never have a golf bet with a high street bookies the prices on BF for golf are soooo much better its crazy.

J-Fit

Betfair are gradually morphing into a bookmaker and are rumoured to be closing some accounts now due to premium charge avoidance. What people don't realise is that if you start to make really good money on Betfair, you will be asked to pay 22% commission (on average). If you begin to make really, really good money, that will rise to 40-60% of your overall profits. Still, short of Betdaq ever waking up, it's still the best way of making money via gambling (trading IS gambling!), and I suppose the premium charges are no different to income tax if you are in at that level of profitability.

digme

J-Fit wrote: »

Betfair are gradually morphing into a bookmaker and are rumoured to be closing some accounts now due to premium charge avoidance. What people don't realise is that if you start to make really good money on Betfair, you will be asked to pay 22% commission (on average). If you begin to make really, really good money, that will rise to 40-60% of your overall profits. Still, short of Betdaq ever waking up, it's still the best way of making money via gambling (trading IS gambling!), and I suppose the premium charges are no different to income tax if you are in at that level of profitability.

Have you any articles? I've not heard anything about this.

J-Fit

digme wrote: »

Have you any articles? I've not heard anything about this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jun/29/betfair-premium-charge-increase

No prob, here you go.

It never ceases to amaze me how little people actually know about these charges and the reason is simple: Betfair said barely anything about it when they announced it. They only posted it on their website in the announcement section and only in English. The 22% charge has been in since 2008. The 60% one was introduced around 6 weeks ago and affect a hell of a lot more people than Betfair are letting on.