Subliminals in tv shows

Torakx

Well i decided to start this thread because i recently spotted a really obvious subliminal in Breaking bad the other day.
It was a political statement about Ron Paul
Linking him to nazis and a German scientist called Werner Heisenberg on a subliminal level.
Taken from season 4, episode 4

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/breakingbads04e04snapsh.jpg/

The Picture shown is a page of a meth cookers lab book,amongst it are lots of crazy stuff from his personal life aswell as meth cooking notes and in the box with the book also was a video with middle eastern subs to the meth cookers singing.
So links to the middle east where also made in the scene before you get to see this subliminal.

I thought i was going to be the first to get to this one but it seems in the few minutes ive spent searching before posting this, i also found the same thing on youtube.
So heres the clip i took the pic from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckJvaKC6z-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckJvaKC6z-8

Notice the dialogue before it flashes up.He is talking about nazis and Heisenberg then it flashes Ron paul.

So the Ct is that political parties and/or government are using subliminals to spread propoganda and/or social engineering.

I would be interested to know how much more of this is going on and to what extent.
Ron Paul is suposedly a member of congress who is apposed to the fed.
That may be one reason for the propoganda.
I am also wondering if this happens in Ireland/England too.

The other thought i had is that its a very obvious subliminal so maybe it was ment to be seen and therefore done by Ron Pauls campaigners to make it look like he is being slandered.
Long shot but i am open to suggestions

El Inho

Sparticle

I saw that too. I assumed it was there to tell us more about the political views of the character Gale, breaking bad being a character driven drama and all.

Or is that too obvious?

hooradiation

It makes far more sense then assuming the "powers that be" are trying to create a link between a perennial presidential no hoper and Nazis.

Torakx

Sparticle wrote: »

I saw that too. I assumed it was there to tell us more about the political views of the character Gale, breaking bad being a character driven drama and all.

Or is that too obvious?

Whats obvious about the Ron Paul reference though?
I dont get it.
I can get the Heisenberg one as he was a phyiscist and i could get passed the nazi part too because of the Heisenberg link.
I could even get passed the Middle eastern subbed home video of the guy singing like a loone.
But i dont get why Ron Paul is there, unless its something that all the above was handy to link for political reasons.Either for or against Ron Paul.
Besides it may have been too fast for most people to spot and might be considered still quite subliminal,especially if you dont have the means right away to rewind and look to see.

First time i caught a glimpse of the name but wasnt sure and because i like conspiracy theories i went back before i forgot and checked it out.
Most people would probably dissmiss this and that is why i consider it a sneaky subliminal message.
If it was ment to be part of the story why subliminal?
Is it because it would be slanderous to publically show a fictional character who is breaking the law to be a Ron Paul supporter?
I dont know myself the rules on that one,but i think its not illegal and they could have been obvious about it.

I think more likely is that because subliminals are more effective it was used that way instead to create a strong association.

hooradiation

Torakx wrote: »

If it was ment to be part of the story why subliminal?

with the widespread adoption of things like TiVO and HD these little things can be put into the show, knowing the fans have the tools to hand to find it as opposed to ten years ago.
If you'd like an example - in the Simpsons intro sequence when magie is scanned the till reads "$847.63" the cost of feeding a baby for a month in the US.
This however was a hell of a thing to figure out back in the day - having to pause a VCR in just the right place to see the figure and then having to deal with the blurry image.
Conversely, in a recent futurama "The Prisoner of Benda" the crux of a show was solving a body-swap problem. The writers wrote an entire mathematical proof to solving it and put it in the show- which was clearly visible thanks to things like HD tv and tivo. Another example from the same show is the two alien languages.
Not that I'm saying these are exactly analogous to this, but just to demonstrate how some writers are using the advantages of modern televisions and entertainment systems to hide little things for people who want to find them, as opposed to them being subliminal in the traditional sense.

Torakx wrote: »

Is it because it would be slanderous to publically show a fictional character who is breaking the law to be a Ron Paul supporter?
I dont know myself the rules on that one,but i think its not illegal and they could have been obvious about it.

Actually - given Ron Pauls libertarian politics, he'd have no problem with a guy being a meth dealer, as long as he hurts nobody else while making his meth, so I'm not sure this can really be slanderous in this case.
In fact Ron Paul is on record recently enough saying that we don't need laws against drugs because, in his mind, people don't need the government telling them not to do something as harmful as taking meth. It should be self evident.

Take that as you will.

Priori

People are inclined to greatly overestimate the impact of these kinds of subliminal 'messages'. There are so many factors involved that are usually ignored (e.g. the state of the recipient at the time, the time and repetition usually needed to create meaningful associations from scratch etc).

Torakx

Well the state of the recipient would be very open to programming i would think,when i consider that the most common form of delivery is television for this program.
I wonder if the reason i spotted this easier is because i was using a pc monitor instead of a tv.
I remember something that always stuck in my head about the conscious and unconscious mind.
Something along the lines that we are conscious of about 20% of what we experience.
The other 80% is experienced by the unconscious thanks to the many filters we create as we grow older.
So if it went unnoticed i personally think it would have a bit more of an effect than if you spot it,as it would be your unconscious mind that would be connecting the dots without you knowing.
There is a reason subliminals are used in advertising after all.

I do agree that a one time slot into a popular show might not change the voting scales much.
Would you agree something is up if i did a search and found some more Ron Paul subliminals in other places that the american public would experience it?

hooradiation

Torakx wrote: »

I do agree that a one time slot into a popular show might not change the voting scales much.
Would you agree something is up if i did a search and found some more Ron Paul subliminals in other places that the american public would experience it?

I don't know - I think Ron Pauls libertarian ideals would have far more to do with his consistent billing as an "also ran" than anything else.

I mean, you'd not only have to show that there is a significant number of Ron Paul 'subliminals' in various shows, but also that the main audiences from those shows have a measurable reaction to the man himself, either positively or negatively.
And you'd also need to find a way to account for the possibility that people who react in a negative fashion have their beliefs rooted in the more tangible area of "libertarianism is fucking stupid" or indeed weren't already of the idea that libertarianism is fucking awesome.

By all means go for it if you want to, but i think you've got an almighty amount of work to do to make a case that these things you have labeled as subliminals are having any real effect.

Torakx

I wont be able to prove anything or make a case that is full proof,this is why its under conspiracy theory.
At best in this case, i speculate.
Considering the theme of the show i would guess that the audience for the most part would be slightly more liberal than not.
After all the show is about a school teacher who turns to a life of cooking meth in a suburban enviornment and the viewer is rooting for him.
But i doubt the viewer would have positive reactions to nazism and the middle eastern subbed video.
Maybe that subliminal was ment for libertarian would be Ron Paul supporters.
Those scenes unconsciously saying he is like the nazis and has terrorist links.
A small nudge to push more people to the right side or whatever side is opposite of Ron Paul.
Actually it could be a way to simply sway people to the next candidate on the opposite side.Ron Paul after all is a very good example of pro liberty for the majority of citizens.


I always laugh at left and right sides in politics.Makes no sense to me.Im sure theres an obvious explanation,but the name itself doesnt give meaning to me as of yet.

ed2hands

hooradiation wrote: »

I mean, you'd not only have to show that there is a significant number of Ron Paul 'subliminals' in various shows, but also that the main audiences from those shows have a measurable reaction to the man himself, either positively or negatively.
And you'd also need to find a way to account for the possibility that people who react in a negative fashion have their beliefs rooted in the more tangible area of "libertarianism is fucking stupid" or indeed weren't already of the idea that libertarianism is fucking awesome.

By all means go for it if you want to, but i think you've got an almighty amount of work to do to make a case that these things you have labeled as subliminals are having any real effect.

No pressure then Torakx;).

King Mob

So what about all the TV shows that involve either grand government conspiracies or show government agents as incompetent and overly bureaucratic?
Are these shows subliminally making people not like the government?

And how come the subliminals haven't worked on you? Or anyone on this thread?

Torakx

Actually ive already done the ground work to show that tv in general shapes culture and is a very powerfull tool for social engineering.
Its in one of the buried threads, i think one i started.Possibly the Edward Norton one.Maybe before alot of readers here were around this forum so you might not have seen that one.
One example i clearly remember was a small community in the tibetan mountains or somewhere like that.
They were supposedly one of the last large isolated communities to be introduced to television for the first time.
The whole place went to hell after it was introduced.Mad figures like 80% increase in crime,like fraud,assault etc.

From all ive seen im pretty sure we are like sponges and take in everything we see.Acting unconsciously on some and consciously on other choices.
Its why i believe coca cola probably sells more in Ireland than pepsi.
And why billions or trillions is spent yearly on advertising.

Its already known that advertising works and furthermore its well known that if you link a product to an emotion or personal experience it can be relative to the viewer much easier and therefore more of a favourable choice be it a negative effect or positive.

So i think of the Ron Paul advertisement inbetween nazis,meth and middle east symbols is a good way to link to the fear/security aspect of peoples fears and paranoia in the states.
Consciously most probably didnt see it,unconsciously everyone did and some may act on it more so when the time comes.
They might only need to see blue and Ron paul to have a "feeling" thats slightly negative for some reason.
I think a couple of hits with that type of "advertisement" would do the job nicely.
And maybe over the years this is one of the many reasons Ron Paul is known as the guy who also ran.

I have my own personal suspicions about the man himself,because i take eveyone and everything with a pinch of salt these days.
But i dont beleive it was just part of the series storyboard.

clever_name

Torakx wrote: »

Actually ive already done the ground work to show that tv in general shapes culture

Very much depends on your point of view, I would say that culture shapes TV but the balance is so close that either option could be valid.

Torakx wrote: »

One example i clearly remember was a small community in the tibetan mountains or somewhere like that.
They were supposedly one of the last large isolated communities to be introduced to television for the first time.
The whole place went to hell after it was introduced.Mad figures like 80% increase in crime,like fraud,assault etc.

This same argument has been used with reference to communities all around the world, the same flaw is usually present in all versions - no account is taken of the changes brought to the community by ability to view TV.

People do not wake up one morning with a TV and go on a rampage, the community has to have a major change to reach the point were TV viewing is possible - everything from more money to buy a TV to even the electricity supply to power a TV. Television does not arrive on its own, the outside world will usually get there a bit before, would it be possible that the "80% increase in crime" is a result of a wider change in society?

Torakx wrote: »

So i think of the Ron Paul advertisement inbetween nazis,meth and middle east symbols is a good way to link to the fear/security aspect of peoples fears and paranoia in the states.

Who says its an advertisment?
Is anything shown in a TV show an advertisment?, if a drug dealer in a show wears nike or reebok is that a subliminal advertisment for said sports wear or fictional portrayal of a character?

Also please consider - if you notice it - its not subliminal.

Torakx

clever_name wrote: »

Very much depends on your point of view, I would say that culture shapes TV but the balance is so close that either option could be valid.

When i consider how much american culture has effected the irish alone i would have to agree to dissagree with you there.From watching american tv i myself have changed my use of language and thoughts too.
It was the americans that got me into conspiracy theories aswell.
This to me shows i can be influenced by whats on tv and im one stubborn fecker! lol

This same argument has been used with reference to communities all around the world, the same flaw is usually present in all versions - no account is taken of the changes brought to the community by ability to view TV.

People do not wake up one morning with a TV and go on a rampage, the community has to have a major change to reach the point were TV viewing is possible - everything from more money to buy a TV to even the electricity supply to power a TV. Television does not arrive on its own, the outside world will usually get there a bit before, would it be possible that the "80% increase in crime" is a result of a wider change in society?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2003/jun/14/weekend7.weekend2
"Bhutan's isolation has made the impact of television all the clearer, even if the government chooses to ignore it. Consider the results of the unofficial impact study. One third of girls now want to look more American (whiter skin, blond hair). A similar proportion have new approaches to relationships (boyfriends not husbands, sex not marriage). More than 35% of parents prefer to watch TV than talk to their children. Almost 50% of the children watch for up to 12 hours a day. Is this how we came to live in our Big Brother society, mesmerised by the fate of minor celebrities fighting in the jungle? "

Yes the government may have gotten something for hosting certain satelites and probably why they kept tv despite the consequences.
But the people had already been modernized enough to have an economy and such already.
Have a read of that report,its kind of long but i think a very good example when you consider this soceity was very isolated from the rest of the world.

Who says its an advertisment?
Is anything shown in a TV show an advertisment?, if a drug dealer in a show wears nike or reebok is that a subliminal advertisment for said sports wear or fictional portrayal of a character?

Also please consider - if you notice it - its not subliminal.

I said advertisement in inverted commas,hinting that i consider it a subliminal advert for an idea.
Well i didnt see anyone wearing a Ron Paul t-shirt.It wasnt in a noticeable place,it was very quickly flashed in what appears to be a strategically placed time in the show.
And yes i believe drug dealers noticeably wearing nike would send a small message to watching drug dealers who admired the role model.
It wouldnt have to be subliminal to have that effect if its re-enforced enough.I refer you to the above link for the effects of tv on culture.I think that Ron Paul one was just about within the threshold to allow it to be passed as not a subliminal,but maybe as fast as they could get it to effect a large portion of the viewers.

I still havent figured how to multi quote sorry.

Oh also heres an interesting site i found while searchign for that other report on the himalayan community.
http://www.tvsmarter.com/documents/aggression.html
Havent read everything there but it seems to have alot of links collected for those interested.

magher

Was just watching this episode of no reservations and noticed along with others in the comments a subliminal ad for cialis at 12:24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAWcct3gDTU

Is this not very illegal?

Torakx

magher wrote: »

Was just watching this episode of no reservations and noticed along with others in the comments a subliminal ad for cialis at 12:24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAWcct3gDTU

Is this not very illegal?

Yes, i would like to think people putting subliminals into stuff is illegal, but they seem to be getting away with it.
Some might argue that wasnt subliminal because it wasnt beyond the human treshold of percieving it.
I think myself that these people might be putting this stuff just as close to the legal limit as allowed so that they cant be held accountable.
And i am thinking that if you are viewing this through a tv, chances are you will be in a trance for quite alot of the time and wont be conscious of what you just saw.
Everyone i presume knows what i mean about trance states and televison,you only need to watch some kids viewign a cartoons to see they are raptured alot of the time.
I think during this state of mind alot of stuff goes in without you noticing.

Nice find,thanks for the link.
Keep them coming!

clever_name

Torakx wrote: »

And i am thinking that if you are viewing this through a tv, chances are you will be in a trance for quite alot of the time and wont be conscious of what you just saw.

So you have no idea what you watched on TV last night for example?

And is it only through a tv? what about computers?

Torakx wrote: »

Everyone i presume knows what i mean about trance states and televison,you only need to watch some kids viewign a cartoons to see they are raptured alot of the time.

I would call it enjoyment, happens with books, games and loads of other stuff.

Torakx wrote: »

I think during this state of mind alot of stuff goes in without you noticing.

that is true for your entire life, the amount of background information taken in on a simple walk to the shops is huge, think of all stuff goes in without you noticing while you sleep.

Torakx

While you sleep your unconscious and conscious mind are more or less closed off from the world apart from sound and feeling which are dulled to help sleep.
Have a research into alpha,beta and theta brain waves while watching television.
Its not the whole time you watch otherwise you wouldnt remember what you watched or only vaguely remember the title.
Your brain fights to get back to beta waves(critical thinking and fully aware) IIRC and so it switches between that and another.

I believe CRT monitors have a similar effect to cathode televisions but digital monitors work differently with the way light in pulsed and so effects the brain waves either less or differently.
Its been a while, but there are old threads in which i covered all of this stuff in detail.
I dont wish to do so all over again,i hope you will look into it in your own time though.

My overall understanding was that most televisions cause trance like effects in most people to varying degrees.
In a child who first watches tv it will be roughly after 25 minutes.After that i think the time it takes to reach a trance like state is cut down to 15 minutes and with some people it can take only 5 minutes.
I experience these states also and when i snap out of it while watching tv i have only a very vague conscious memory of what happened.
Im very self aware so maybe that is why i notice ths happening.

clever_name

Torakx wrote: »

My overall understanding was that most televisions cause trance like effects in most people to varying degrees.
In a child who first watches tv it will be roughly after 25 minutes.After that i think the time it takes to reach a trance like state is cut down to 15 minutes and with some people it can take only 5 minutes.
I experience these states also and when i snap out of it while watching tv i have only a very vague conscious memory of what happened.
Im very self aware so maybe that is why i notice ths happening.

Your so self aware that tv puts you in a trance after 5 minutes...

Obvious question is why do you watch tv if you know its a tool designed to put you in a trance?

Torakx

It doesnt put me in a trance after 5 minutes.
Where did you read that?

See i can ask stupid questions too and appear to be holding an adult conversation
Lets not do that anymore.

Your question is also loaded with misinterpretations and presumptions that i did not directly imply in the discussion.

However the history of Tv could be an interesting thing to look into if you wanted to start a Ct thread of your own.
I would be only happy to share and discuss what i have stumbled across too.

clever_name

Torakx wrote: »

It doesnt put me in a trance after 5 minutes.
Where did you read that?

See i can ask stupid questions too and appear to be holding an adult conversation
Lets not do that anymore.

Torakx wrote: »

My overall understanding was that most televisions cause trance like effects in most people to varying degrees.
In a child who first watches tv it will be roughly after 25 minutes.After that i think the time it takes to reach a trance like state is cut down to 15 minutes and with some people it can take only 5 minutes.
I experience these states also and when i snap out of it while watching tv i have only a very vague conscious memory of what happened.
Im very self aware so maybe that is why i notice ths happening.

I presumed you were talking about your own experiences, so to clear this up - how long does it take for TV to put you in a trance?

I really do not consider this to be a stupid question

clever_name wrote: »

Obvious question is why do you watch tv if you know its a tool designed to put you in a trance?

Its a reasonable question and as I said it is an obvious one too.

ed2hands

An interesting clip from Fall of the Republic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZmP-TYy2zE

Torakx

clever_name wrote: »

I presumed you were talking about your own experiences, so to clear this up - how long does it take for TV to put you in a trance?

I really do not consider this to be a stupid question


Its a reasonable question and as I said it is an obvious one too.

I was talking about stuff i have read from studies, in relation to the times that children have been seen going into trance states.If you read carefully you will notice i did not put a time on my own experiences but stated that which i read about.

I did say i do experience this as do all people i have met.
Some more than others.
For me it is hard to say because you dont ever remember going into that state.
I only realise i had been like that after i pop out and it is generally for a period of about 1-5 minutes each time.
The frequency seems to depend on many things,like if im lying down and relaxed or if im very interested in the material and thinking hard about it.
I reckon though it takes at least 20 minutes before it would kick in,but again depends on what state im in too.

For you to say or think i am in a trance state for a whole tv session appears to me like extreme sarcasm or that you just dont believe anything im saying..or that you think i dissociate and have some kind of disorder that causes this,which i assure you i dont.
Either way research will answer these questions for you.

The reason i had been watching a tv is that i sometimes socialise with my flatmate or friends who use a tv for watching documentaries and tv series,films etc.
So when im in the sitting room id notice the odd time that i was "away" for a bit.
It doesnt happen with my digital flatscreen monitor though as far as i can remember.
On the subject of tv series and movies, i think they are corrupting my mind and full of subliminals and propoganda etc.
I watch those because i am addicted to entertainment like most people and have not been fully able to break away from society and its influence.
I also play online games and have a fondess for brazil nuts and raisins.
But hey thats my business and has no real relevance to this discussion as my watching tv doesnt change the effects it has on others.

I mean, i used to smoke and would at that time agree its bad for you.Alot of people do stuff they know isnt healthy for body or mind.
And so i am confused as to why you care that i watch tv at all.

ps, i just realised something weird.Not long after i stopped watching a tv set completely and just used my monitor, i started getting interested in politics,conspiracy theories,science,health and questioning alot of stuff in general.
Maybe its coincedance...maybe not.

Obelisk

Not so subliminal stuff here, from hit kids movie 'Despicable me'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1emICv6A84

From 'Illumination entertainment'

hooradiation

That's pretty goddamn tenuous.

Obelisk

Sorry, here is the plot;

A mysterious criminal mastermind has stolen one of the pyramids in Egypt, sparking a fit of jealous envy in evil genius Gru (Steve Carell), who hasn't managed to make headlines since he and his minions swiped the Times Square JumboTron years back. Ever since Gru was a little boy, he dreamed of going to the moon. Now, if Gru can just build a rocket and get his hands on a powerful shrink-ray, he can cement his reputation as the greatest thief who ever lived by stealing the Earth's satellite right out of the sky. But immediately after Gru heists the shrink-ray, the cunning super-nerd Vector (Jason Segel) swoops in and snatches it right out of his hands. Now, in order to claim the moon, Gru must first reacquire the weapon from Vector. Armed with the knowledge that his nemesis has a mean sweet tooth, Gru adopts cookie-selling orphans Margo (Miranda Cosgrove), Agnes (Elsie Fisher), and Edith (Dana Gaier) and commissions a new line of cookie robots from the evil Dr. Nefario (Russell Brand), his personal weapons specialist. But as Gru and his diminutive yellow minions prepare to carry out the biggest heist in history, something strange happens. Gru discovers that the three little girls who have come into his life are much more than simple pawns. They actually seem to care about Gru, and it turns out the scheming evildoer makes a pretty good father. When Gru realizes that his upcoming moon mission clashes with a ballet performance by the girls, he must decide what's more important -- being a present parent or cementing his nefarious reputation once and for all

King Mob

Obelisk wrote: »

Not so subliminal stuff here, from hit kids movie 'Despicable me'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1emICv6A84

From 'Illumination entertainment'

This is a piss take right?

Torakx

Well one or two things in a movie might be debateable depending on the blatancy and symbol.
But if i saw a good few i would consider it more than coincedance.
Alot of kids anime ussually have strange unrelated references.
Or at least as many as movies i think.
But i kind of already reached a stage where there are just too many masonic references in movies, that its hard to tell now who is taking the piss for the sake of publicity.

Im more interested now in tv series.Stuff that people will be tuned into every week and has subliminals or stuff of a similar nature, used to control perceptions of the viewer.
Illuminatti and masonic symbols are so common now that they have become well known and used references.
Possibly that was the intention all along,to embed it in the global collective consciousness and bring the ideologies out to the public ina subtle way over a long period of time.
Like a mass conversion.But i only speculate mind.

clever_name

Torakx wrote: »

I mean, i used to smoke and would at that time agree its bad for you.Alot of people do stuff they know isnt healthy for body or mind.
And so i am confused as to why you care that i watch tv at all.

I dont care if you watch tv, I am curious why anyone would watch tv if it had such a serious effect on them.

Torakx wrote: »

ps, i just realised something weird.Not long after i stopped watching a tv set completely and just used my monitor, i started getting interested in politics,conspiracy theories,science,health and questioning alot of stuff in general.
Maybe its coincedance...maybe not.

Nothing weird about that I would say its down to the simple fact that when you stopped watching a tv and started using a monitor you began to use the internet more.

hooradiation

Torakx wrote: »

But i kind of already reached a stage where there are just too many masonic references in movies, that its hard to tell now who is taking the piss for the sake of publicity.

Not that this is a definitive answer or anything but I work in an entertainment industry (minds out of the gutter) - we regularly 'hide' things in our products for shits and giggles.
So unless everyone here is a mason/member of the Illuminati there is a very strong probability that a lot of this is talented people being bored and finding an outlet in doing something minorly subversive.