Guard-dogs

Saabster

Hi all,

I'm thinking about getting another dog and I'm hoping that someone here can suggest a suitable breed. I'm looking for a dog that has a natural instinct to guard but won't need more than an hour-long walk every day and will not have an issue with separation anxiety. I've looked at some of the usual guard-dog breeds and they all seem a little high maintenance. We already have a pointer-cross, a westie and four cats. Any dog we get will obviously have to get along with our present gang and will be spending quite a lot of time indoors as myself and herself are not at home during the day. I'm looking for a pet first and foremost so it's not the be-all and end-all if the dog doesn't guard - it would be handy however if I can find a dog that does! Thanks....

CrackisWhack

Get a Jack Russel Terrier

Shanao

From what you've described, its probably a bull, neopolitan or english mastiff that would suit you best, though these are giant breeds and expensive to feed. They have natural guarding instincts, are gentle with kids and other animals (when properly socialised of course) and cant really handle much more than an hour long walk. Mind me asking why less than an hour walk though? Surely if you have a pointer and a westie already you're already walking longer than that?

Saabster

No - hour long daily walks and both dogs are in great shape.

poozers

go to your local animal welfare and get a dog!! i dont think it should matter what kind of breed it is!!! also, the people at the animal welfare will be able to give you an idea of the dogs personality, what theyre like with kids and other dogs etc etc! also, these are dogs that are looking for homes and will be MORE than happy to get one from someone whos looking! for 17 years we had a little mongrel who was a cross between a sheepdog and a bassett hound, a strange looking little thing, but was the cutest sweetest dog ever!! sadly, she passed away 2 weeks ago but up until 2 years ago, before she started to go deaf, she was the best guard dog (my father used to test to see if he could get in our gate going unnoticed by her, and he failed everytime!) ! so at least check out your local animal welfares website, and see if you see any dog you might like!!

meoklmrk91

Boxer, I know that they may not be considered to be a ''guarding breed'' first and foremost but I have one and a 10 months old he is brilliant to guard the house, he sleeps indoors at night and if he hears anyone in or around the house he goes mad barking a growling. Most of the time he is a big happy eejit who loves everyone and everything, but he is a formidable dog when guarding our home and I have had grown men cross the road when they see the two of us coming.

Honey-ec

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Boxer, I know that they may not be considered to be a ''guarding breed'' first and foremost but I have one and a 10 months old he is brilliant to guard the house, he sleeps indoors at night and if he hears anyone in or around the house he goes mad barking a growling. Most of the time he is a big happy eejit who loves everyone and everything, but he is a formidable dog when guarding our home and I have had grown men cross the road when they see the two of us coming.

Boxers have a very strong guarding instinct when it comes to their home & family. If he's going to be indoors for most of the day, though, he will need that hour long walk religiously, otherwise the OP's furniture will soon bear the brunt of his boredom.

Saabster

Thanks for your suggestions - I had thought about a boxer and know how protective they can be but are they a breed that will be ok left alone with other dogs all day? Both our dogs are great watchdogs but neither of them is a guard-dog - they will bark but then greet all and sundry like long lost friends. We live in a remote spot and have had some suspicious characters around a little too often so I thought maybe it's time to have a guard dog around. Mastiffs sound like great dogs and certainly worth considering! Do you have one yourself Shanao?

ppink

Do you think if you get another dog he will just follow the lead of your established dogs who bark and then greet?

Shanao

Saabster wrote: »

Thanks for your suggestions - I had thought about a boxer and know how protective they can be but are they a breed that will be ok left alone with other dogs all day? Both our dogs are great watchdogs but neither of them is a guard-dog - they will bark but then greet all and sundry like long lost friends. We live in a remote spot and have had some suspicious characters around a little too often so I thought maybe it's time to have a guard dog around. Mastiffs sound like great dogs and certainly worth considering! Do you have one yourself Shanao?

Not yet:D Thinking of getting one down the line, an english mastiff if I can source a wellbred one. I have worked with them though and they're big slobs, but they are huge dogs and can be pretty intimidating to strangers. They will cost you an arm and a leg to feed too, they absolutely adore their food and devour quite a large quantity.
Honestly though, there's a lot of dogs that will guard despite not being a 'guarding' breed. We had a collie who wouldn't let anyone inside the gate unless we told her to.
You might be as well off checking the rescue route, I know there's a good few rescues around the country that have had several different mastiffs in because their owners either didn't realise how big they get or cant afford to keep them.

Saabster

I guess that's possible but I'm looking in particular at breeds that have a strong instinct to guard!

Saabster

I know what you mean Shanao - I had a lab once who was just the same. Not an aggresive dog at all, just very protective. But then I've known other labs who would open the door for strangers if they were able. So I'm thinking that I'd be as well off to get a breed that is known to have an instinct for the job.

Something else I'm wondering about is whether a breed that is reputed to suffer from separation anxiety will be less stressed if left with other dogs all day?

Honey-ec

Saabster wrote: »

Both our dogs are great watchdogs but neither of them is a guard-dog - they will bark but then greet all and sundry like long lost friends.

Ok, well a Boxer will pretty much do exactly that - ours go BALLISTIC whenever anyone comes within about 20 feet of the house, but if someone comes into the house, then they'll be slobbering all over them within minutes.

What distinction are you making between a watchdog and a guard-dog?

ETA: Never underestimate the deterrent effect that just a dog barking can have. We had to give statements to a pair of detectives at home a few years back and the dogs went ballistic barking at them & jumping up at the door when they rang the doorbell. I hustled the dogs into the kitchen and was like "Sorry about that!" and the Gardai were like "Don't be sorry." They basically said that a burglar is looking for the easiest target and if they hear a dog barking in your house/garden, they'll move on to the house that doesn't.

Saabster

"What distinction are you making between a watchdog and a guard-dog?"

A watch-dog will bark to alert his owner to something suspicious but will take no further action whereas a guard-dog will also threaten anyone he suspects of endangering his owners.

dave1982

A dog barking should be enough,you don't want a dog that attacks people.Train a dog to attack it will go very wrong eventually.

Cherry Blossom

Train a dog to attack and as soon as it bites someone you are in the same position you would be if you pulled out a gun and shot them.

In answer to your original question, there is no such breed that will attack people without having very specialised training to do so.

Saabster

I have no intention training any dog to attack - like I said, I'm looking for a dog that has an instinct to guard ie. a dog that is hardwired to protect it's owner or it's owners property. Such a dog would receive obedience training and would be socialized from an early age to curb any aggresive instincts.

Zapperzy

I agree with AJ here in that you DO NOT want a dog that will attack, you will be in serious bother if it does and it won't matter if he attacks a burglar, the neighbours kid who went into your garden to get his football, the meter reader or the postman. The dog would be seized and destroyed.

A large dog that barks I would imagine would be enough to deter any dodgy people. I know I certainly wouldn't chance breaking into a house with a giant dog barking inside. Slightly off topic but I remember hearing a story of a house broken into that had a level 3 schutzhund rottweiler (I think or gsd) who didn't pass any heed of the burglars, not exactly sure how true that is but I thought it funny.

Apologies didn't see your last post before I posted mine. What exactly do you mean by guard though? Do you mean a dog that will just stand and bark at an intruder rather than jump all over him and lick his face?

Cherry Blossom

I'm afraid you aren't making much sense then, all a 'guard' dog does is bark, any dog that is raised any way decently at all will do what your other 2 dogs do, so the most protection your going to get is a dog that barks at people before they come into the house, then shut up. Getting a 'big' dog will just be for special effects and appearances. What exactly do you propose to do with the "guarding and protective" instincts you are looking for? Imho no dog has stronger instincts in this regard than a Westie, which you already have.

Saabster

I have two dogs, both of whom bark when anyone comes up my drive. But regardless of whether that someone is known to them or not, having barked at them, they will not try to prevent them from coming any further.

Some dogs might or might not bark at a stranger coming up the drive but will not allow a stranger to pass them on the drive if they can prevent them from doing so.

See the difference?

Cherry Blossom

No, I don't see the difference, how exactly are they going to prevent them from coming up the drive? Other than physical contact all they can do still is bark.

Saabster

If a dog is determined enough and intimidating enough there is no need for it to attack anyone or even bark in some instances to stop the majority of people in their tracks.

Cherry Blossom

Right, so basicly what I said about appearances and special effects then? Otherwise it seems you want a dog to do something which you can't explain yourself, in which case I'm not sure how we can help you

DBB

Saabster wrote: »

Some dogs might or might not bark at a stranger coming up the drive but will not allow a stranger to pass them on the drive if they can prevent them from doing so.

To be honest, I would not want a dog next or near my property that "will not allow a stranger to pass". I think a dog like this is very likely to get you in front of a judge.
I think a dog who uses his voice to dissuade strangers from a distance is a) a safer option, and b) a very effective guard dog. All a dog needs to do is make noise to be effective. A dog that physically attempts to stop someone passing is an absolute liability.
Here lies the contradiction when we want a dog who'll guard the place. Dogs bred to guard tend to be, by nature, aloof with strangers. We can't expect the dog to discriminate between friend or foe. How's he supposed to know that the little girl selling lines for the sponsored school walk is any less a risk than a hooded man with a bag saying "swag" over his shoulder?

Saabster

Well I don't think you can anyway AJ but several other suggestions made here tonight have been helpful.

As for "appearance and special effects" - I can think of several big dogs that do not have the instinct to guard that I'm talking about eg. Golden Retriever.

If you can't understand what it is I'm asking about I wonder why you bother? Anyway, thanks to everyone else who contributed!

Oranage2

Rottweiler would get my vote -

CrackisWhack

Zapperzy

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Dobermans would need more than an hour walk a day I would imagine. Also those ears are cropped, something which is illegal in Ireland.

Also on the point of exercise, if you decide to go for a large or giant breed it is recommended they only be exercised for 5 minutes per month of age per day, so for a 4 month old pup they should only get 20 minutes walking a day. Also not recommended they do a lot of jumping up and down of couches or into the car. It's so that you don't damage drowing joints. So you won't be able to do the hour a day of walking until the dog is older.

Tbh OP your not going to get a dog that will automatically guard in the sense of how you see it should (the blocking of strangers coming into your home). Some here have recommended breeds which would be instinctual guarders, I think you are best to research all of these breeds and then concentrate on 1 or 2 that you think will fit in with your family and then start the search for a reputable breeder (depending on which breed you go for you may be waiting quite a while as most good breeders have waiting lists and you may have to go to the uk for a reputable breeder if there are none here).

As I already said a large dog that barks when it hears people approaching is a detterant enough for most burglars. Training a dog to bark at approaching people (and of course training it to stop barking once you give the ok) would be easy enough to do. I can't really see how you would train a dog to block people coming up your driveway.

Cherry Blossom

It's probably worth noting that the dobermann pincher was bred for personal protection, not to protect property. They actually aren't at all suitable as so-called guard dogs especially if the intention is to keep it outdoors. They are also incredibly needy and won't do well left alone all day. But . . . what would I know

Cherry Blossom

Saabster wrote: »

If you can't understand what it is I'm asking about I wonder why you bother?

Because I get the feeling there is a bit more to this that you are holding back and as soon as I hear 'guard-dog' I'm on alert, I'm surrounded by guard-dogs and haven't met one yet that isn't treated like some sort of sub-species or weapon. Just trying to fill in the gaps is all!

lrushe

Shanao wrote: »

From what you've described, its probably a bull, neopolitan or english mastiff that would suit you best,

I'd have to disagree here, there are a pair of Neopolitan Mastiffs that 'guard' a warehouse beside a market I go to on Sunday and they are absolutely useless at the job but in a good way:). I go over to the railings to say hello and the 2 of them coming running, bums wiggling, absolutely delighted to have some human attention. Heartbreaking to walk away from them, 2 beautiful dogs who deserve to be in a home with a family not lying on concrete with no human contact Anyway that's my rant over
OP most any dog will bark if they hear or see anything out of the ordinary around their home even a JRT is in most cases enough to detour someone from coming on to your property.
Most of the guarding breeds are v.human orientated and will want to spend more time with you than outside guarding your property. The only exceptions might be something along the lines of the more independant Guardian Breeds like Anatolian Shepherds or Maremma who were breed to protect livestock away from people, however these breeds wouldn't be readily available in Ireland and are alot of dog for the average owner.
You also have to be aware that you are threading a fine line between 'watch dog' and 'guard dog' and a dog might not necessarily see the boudary, one slip up could land you and your dog in alot of trouble.