Rub and Tug

LegacyUser

Long time poster going unreg for obvious reasons....

So I'm currently living abroad in a European capital and am going out with a lovely girl whom I care deeply for.

I have been know to visit the odd Rub and Tug shop on occasion. For those of you who don't know what this is, its a massage parlour where you get a massage with a happy ending. No sex.

So I usually visit these places with a couple of work friends and one of these dickheads got drunk the other night and started to recall a visit we had to one of these establishments when my GF was sitting at the table.

To be honest I laughed about it at the time and didn't think she would care. She does.

I don't see what the problem is. Its just harmless fun as far as I'm concerned. I'm not having sex with pro, just a massage with a twist.

I think she is over reacting.

What do the good people of boards think??

Chinafoot

If I was your girlfriend I would be very unhappy if you were continuing this practice while in a relationship with me.

You are allowing another woman to physically get you off. The fact that there is no penetrative sex doesn't make it ok. You're still getting a handjob from someone who isn't your girlfriend. She is well within her rights to consider this cheating. Would you be fine if your girlfriend let some random bloke finger her to climax?

Also, if you think what you're doing is fine and that she's overreacting why did you keep it from her?

Morgase

She is not overreacting.

Sex is not limited to a man penetrating a woman. As Chinafoot said, how do you think you'd react if a man was getting your girlfriend off using his hands?

Distorted

So you cheated on your girlfriend and she found out. You think she is overreacting.

I think your perception of what is generally acceptable behaviour by the average person is a bit skewed. You obviously find this sort of thing normal to you but I'm surprised you think that everyone else should do so. Did it honestly never occur to you that a partner might be upset/annoyed/devastated to find their partner cheating on them and paying for it?

I find your reaction must more unusual than your girlfriend's. Unless of course you are in an open relationship, which you have not mentioned. But even then, paying for sexual relief is not considered great by many.

LegacyUser

Lord above, I really can't understand how you think your GF is overreacting.

Firstly I've never been a believer in blurred lines where cheating is concerned, intimate contact with the oppposite sex be it kissing or otherwise, paid for or not paid for is cheating. If you allow the lines to be blurred as you have done, you leave your OH wondering 'what else has he got up to' and 'how far could he go without considering that he's cheating on me'. It doesn't bode well for maintaining trust in a realtionship. As your girlfriend I would probably be worried about what else you have got up to and even considering whether there may be a risk to my health as a result of your behaviour!

Secondly, the fact that it was thrown in her face the way it was was incredibly disrespectful to her, and I wouldn't be surprised if she feels hugely disrespected by not only you, but your friends who took it upon themselves to laugh and joke about it in front of her in the forum that they did.

I would say that you have some serious thinking to do about whether you really are ready to be in any relationship if you consider that this type of behaviour is appropriate and acceptable.

curlzy

Hey OP,

You don't mention if this was before you got with your girlfriend or since you've been with her. If it's since you've been with her then it is definately cheating.

If it was before you were with her it's not cheating but if she's anything like me then she'll be sick to her stomach at the thoughts of her bf paying for sex. It would be a dumpable offence for me and I'd be cutting you out of my life. To me, paying for sex is one of the scummiest things you can do and I don't think a man that uses women like that can really have any respect for women. I wouldn't want someone like that anywhere near me. So yeah I'd imagine you'll be single pretty soon.

Best of luck.

Distorted

Thats true OP, you don't mention whether you are doing this while in the relationship or not? Is it not important to you to distinguish?

curlzy wrote: »

Hey OP,
To me, paying for sex is one of the scummiest things you can do and I don't think a man that uses women like that can really have any respect for women. I wouldn't want someone like that anywhere near me. So yeah I'd imagine you'll be single pretty soon.
Best of luck.

This. I mean, I agree there is a need for prostitution and don't want to get into the argument of pros and cons of it, but I'd never have a relationship with someone who used prostitutes! Puts them in a whole different category, and its not a desirable one. And I certainly have male friends who think exactly the same way about men who use prostitutes.

LegacyUser

Your girlfriend has told you she's upset about something you do. Instead of sitting down, talking to her about it and trying to reach a compromise, you've decided to assume she's wrong to feel that way and have looked for other people's opinions to back you up so you can feel justified in doing something your girlfriend clearly doesn't like. If I were your girlfriend, this aspect would worry me far more than the fact that you attend a massage parlour.

Bottom line is you're not ready for an adult relationship.

Miss Fluff

massage man wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is. Its just harmless fun as far as I'm concerned.

So you'd be happy if she paid a male escort to go down on her regularly then?

If you were my boyfriend you'd be dumped quicker than you could say "happy ending". Stop trying to sugar coat it. You pay a whore to perform sexual acts while in a relationship.

blodvyn

Wouldn't it best if we find out this is something that happened when he was in or out of his current relationship..

Neyite

blodvyn wrote: »

Wouldn't it best if we find out this is something that happened when he was in or out of his current relationship..

He is using the present tense, not the past tense , so from that I would take it that he does this on a regular basis.

So I usually visit these places with a couple of work friends

MitchKoobski

If your girlfriend was going for massages and getting fingered by some guy at the end of it I'm sure you'd react the same.

ShizDink

Massage man? is this a serious thread?

kylith

As everyone else has said, how would you feel if it was your girlfriend going to another man for sexual gratification? It's not just that you're cheating on her (which you are), you will have completely destroyed any trust she had in you, and you will have shattered her self confidence (''Am I so bad in bed that he has to go to a whore to get off?").

As for what to do next; grovel, grovel and grovel more and if you're very, very lucky she mightn't dump you, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if she did. IMO she's much too good for you.

Toots

Your girlfriend is absolutely right to be upset. If I found out that my husband had let another woman give him a handjob, regardless of whether or not it was part of a 'massage', I'd be changing the locks and throwing his his clothes off the balcony.

As MitchKoobski said, could you honestly say you'd be ok with it if your girlfriend went to a 'massage' parlour where part of the massage involved a male masseuse masturbating her?? Honestly???

I'm shocked you think it's ok to keep going to these places if you're in a relationship. Whatever if you're single, I wouldn't hold it against you, but in a relationship, come on! What planet are you living on?

LegacyUser

OP here.

Well I suspected as much. The conservative, self-righteous crowd would be none too impressed.

Bit of back round...

I did visit these places before starting to go out with my gf and only once since then. I think the circumstances of us getting together lead me to believe that she would not be fazed by such activity.

Things are pretty wild where I'm living at the moment and she and I are getting up to all sorts. It is ironic that some of you have mentioned would I mind if someone else were to get her off because that has happened. The first time we met she had a boyfriend and they invited me into their bed, so yes I have seen her getting off with another guy and it didn't bother me. She left him and now we are together.

It seems like everything we do sexually goes to the extreme. I would not class it as an open relationship but I have slept with other women and I'm sure she has slept with other guys but we don't ask each other as neither of us want to know.

So perhaps now you can see why I can't understand why she is pissed I got a harmless rug and tub.

Anyway I don't want to go down the road of the moral ins and outs of prostitution but I can tell you that you all are being incredibly naive if you think that the only people who pay for sex are dirty old deviants.

I think you would be quite surprised if you really knew the truth about your nearest and dearest.... brothers, uncles, fathers.......boyfriends!

If you knew the truth you might all come crashing down from your high horses.

I am a friend

Why are you not happy to get your rub and tug at home?

Morgase

In fairness, OP, if you had given us that information to begin with you would have got a different response. It's a bit much to accuse people of being conservative and on high horses if you're not giving the full background.

Perhaps more communication is what is needed in your relationship aswell. Sit down and set out exactly what the boundaries are. It seems that you're assuming that because one set of behaviours are ok, that another different set of behaviours (i.e. visiting prostitutes) is also ok.

As for knowing the truth of what our nearest and dearest are up to - what members of my family are up to is none of my business (eww, I wouldn't even *want* to know) and I know exactly what my partner does, thanks to excellent communication

LegacyUser

Massage man wrote: »

OP here.

Well I suspected as much. The conservative, self-righteous crowd would be none too impressed.

So you basically started the thread to shock people, and to pat yourself on the back that you're not as conservative as most people?

I still stand by what I said. Your girlfriend is not impressed, you think she should be and want other peoples' opinions to back yours. Once again, this TOTAL disregard for what your partner wants without any talk of compromise is far more worrying than you attending a massage parlour.

You really need to grow up. You're not as shocking as you like to think you are.

Leitrim lass

So you claim to know what our nearest and dearest are up to???

God NO! My husband went to a meeting this morning. He said it was work but he must really have gone to a prostitute.
Man, is he in trouble when he gets home.....

tinkerbell

Massage man wrote: »

I think you would be quite surprised if you really knew the truth about your nearest and dearest.... brothers, uncles, fathers.......boyfriends!

If you knew the truth you might all come crashing down from your high horses.

OP, you come on here asking for advice. Don't get on your high horse because you don't like people's responses. And quite frankly, just because you are into getting up to all sorts of debauchery, doesn't mean everyone else is. So please take your ridiculous assumptions elsewhere.

And regarding your relationship, I think it's completely messed up. In fact, I wouldn't even call it a relationship if you're both sleeping with people anyway but you don't want to know. So I have no advice for you.

kylith

Massage man wrote: »

Things are pretty wild where I'm living at the moment and she and I are getting up to all sorts. It is ironic that some of you have mentioned would I mind if someone else were to get her off because that has happened. The first time we met she had a boyfriend and they invited me into their bed, so yes I have seen her getting off with another guy and it didn't bother me. She left him and now we are together.

A willing threesome is a world away from a clandestine hand-job.

It seems like everything we do sexually goes to the extreme. I would not class it as an open relationship but I have slept with other women and I'm sure she has slept with other guys but we don't ask each other as neither of us want to know.

If you haven't spoken about it how do you know what she is doing? It's possible that she has been 100% faithful to you. Usually if a relationship is open then both partners have discussed it and agreed beforehand. I suggest that you sit down and discuss every aspect of your relationship with your girlfriend, otherwise you've just assumed that because she agreed to a threesome with you and another man in the past she's shagging whoever she wants now. For all you know she is not doing so and would only consider having sex with someone else if you are there.


I believe that you haven't spoken to her about your outside encounters because deep down you feel that she may not have been having sex with other men, and you're afraid that she will dump you when she finds out that you've been playing the field.


I do agree that it's not only perverts who visit prostitutes and I believe that a reform of laws on prostitution are needed. However even if visiting a prostitute were perfectly legal doing so without clearing it with your partner first is still dishonest and underhanded.

I am a friend

Massage man wrote: »

OP here.

Well I suspected as much. The conservative, self-righteous crowd would be none too impressed.

Bit of back round...

I did visit these places before starting to go out with my gf and only once since then. I think the circumstances of us getting together lead me to believe that she would not be fazed by such activity.

Things are pretty wild where I'm living at the moment and she and I are getting up to all sorts. It is ironic that some of you have mentioned would I mind if someone else were to get her off because that has happened. The first time we met she had a boyfriend and they invited me into their bed, so yes I have seen her getting off with another guy and it didn't bother me. She left him and now we are together.

It seems like everything we do sexually goes to the extreme. I would not class it as an open relationship but I have slept with other women and I'm sure she has slept with other guys but we don't ask each other as neither of us want to know.

So perhaps now you can see why I can't understand why she is pissed I got a harmless rug and tub.

Anyway I don't want to go down the road of the moral ins and outs of prostitution but I can tell you that you all are being incredibly naive if you think that the only people who pay for sex are dirty old deviants.

I think you would be quite surprised if you really knew the truth about your nearest and dearest.... brothers, uncles, fathers.......boyfriends!

If you knew the truth you might all come crashing down from your high horses.

Well you 'who knows it all' should have given the full background at the start rather than a synopsis.

Maybe she jjust doesnt like you paying for sex so and has an issue with women rights in that regard.

What do you want people to say and why only post if you want people to agree with you.

FYI - I dont care what uncles, fathers etc are at - I care what the person I am having sex with is up to...

Ickle Magoo

OP,

This is a forum to give the details of your issue and hopefully take on board whatever advice posters are good enough to offer in return. That you fail to disclose important details or don't get the exercise in confirmation bias you were hoping for is no reason to insult the posters of this forum and any more comments to that effect will result in the locking of this thread.

Everyone else, the usual forum and site rules regarding posting, reporting posts rather than dragging the thread off-topic and helpful advice only apply.

Many thanks.

Johnny Favourite

Whatever about your wild sex life, I think the fact that you paid for sex kind of sets you apart from a player to a desperado, and she sees that.

You were never gonna get sympathy here.

Distorted

Massage man wrote: »

OP here.

Well I suspected as much. The conservative, self-righteous crowd would be none too impressed.

I think you're confusing openness and a wild sex life with sleaze. There is a difference. Your girlfriend can recognise the difference.

You're confusing a lot of things actually - secrecy and cheating with being in a satisfactory relationship, paying someone to have sexual relations with you rather than out of choice, and so on. You sound as if your boundaries have become warped and you can no longer define what is and isn't tasteful, acceptable or healthy.

That said, you must have some idea because you kept your little secret from your girlfriend.

Theres nothing conservative about wanting to stay away from sleaze.

Seems strange that you are so proud of your wild sex life with your girlfriend that you would look to do this on the side and in secret. Doesn't really add up. I might have the totally wrong impression, but I thought the rub and tub service was more man on man oriented. Anyway, is there much point in you being in a relationship, when you cannot have your sexual needs met by one person, even when they are open to wild sex?

Ickle Magoo

Distorted - what constitutes a relationship for other people is not for you to dictate.

Final warning about keeping advice on-topic and helpful and refraining from the moralizing.

gargleblaster

Buying sex is in no way anywhere close to having consensual sex (yes, even the wild kind).

Believe it or not, despite the overwhelming effort to normalize the practice of buying sex, not everyone condones it, or finds it acceptable. Whatever about how many men do buy sex, most people have strong feelings about the issue. Perhaps you might consider how her reaction might be based not so much on the sex itself, as the fact that you are buying it and see it as "harmless". Many, many people disagree that it is harmless.

King of Kings

It's irrelevant if she is over reacting or not, you've pissed her off and if you want her to stay then you need to apologise and stop with your adventures.

however you can take the opinion that she is over reacting and you aren't going to put up with it. Then leave.

There is no right or wrong answer only options.

Clearly the price of being with her is no more "rug and tug". Only you can answer if the price is too high.

in my opinion you're missing the wider problem you have - you've been doing things on the sly in the company of a clown who can't keep his mouth shut - you can bet this wasn't his only slip of the tongue.
In some opinions , what you've been up to is morally wrong - the moral reaction here isn't confinded to boards. This could affect you more than just with your gf.

How Many Users

This is a stupid thread, OP obviously has different moral values to all the posters in this thread. Why don't you try posting you issue in a swingers board, you might get more responses that will please you.

Ickle Magoo

How Many Users infracted for ignoring multiple mod warnings to keep advice on-topic and helpful and to refrain from commenting on other posters and their advice.

As per site rules, if you have an issue with a post or poster then use the report function. If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

Many thanks.

Emme

There's a difference between having an open relationship where you're honest with each other and going behind your partner's back to get your rocks off.

Actually, it's even more insulting in an open relationship. The OP and his GF have a wild, open and adventurous sex life but that's not enough for the OP, he still has to sneak around behind her back going to rub and tug shops.

If the OP was a middle-aged accountant with a wife who had stopped sleeping with him years ago you might see a reason for him going to rub and tug shops. Even so it would still be a bit sad.

Is it the clandestine element of the rub and tug shops that turns you on, OP? The fact that you're getting your rocks off and your GF doesn't know about it? You wouldn't be the first man to be turned on that way.

And your GF wouldn't be the first woman to get upset when she finds out that her partner has been getting jollies behind her back.

I hope for the OP's sake that this has a happy ending!:D

LegacyUser

OP here,

Your right your right....

When i read back through all these responses I think it is pretty clear that I'm being a dick.

I guess I was trying to shock people with my "unconventional" lifestyle (which does not make me at all happy). So what, big deal, i'm a hero yada yada...

I apologise for my flippant response earlier. The thing is I'm not at all happy and neither is she. I do love her though and am thinking of asking her to move back home so we can start leading a bit more of a normal life.

Its funny, I posted on here initially withholding some important facts, knowing the response I would get and, and fully expecting "conservatives" to give me a hard time but when I actually read the responses I realised a few uncomfortable home truths.

My apologies again for the bravado and thanks for your help.

tinkerbell

^^ Glad to hear it and good luck for the future.

WM18

So I'm currently living abroad in a European capital

Is it berlin , i'm headin over in a few weeks...........;):D

Maple

WM18 wrote: »

So I'm currently living abroad in a European capital

Is it berlin , i'm headin over in a few weeks...........;):D

Please keep your advice constructive.

Maple