A large portion of seal team six wiped out in crash.

Kepti

Killer Wench wrote: »

Being that I am American, and I know of examples when the government and elected officials have misled the public on controversial issues before, I don't think it is entirely outside the realm of possibility. Is it likely that this is a manufactured news story? Highly unlikely.

But if you need an example, google "Tuskegee Experiment".

I wasn't looking for an example of your government lying to, or misleading it's citizens. I suspect we share common ground on the frequency at which that happens. I'd like something which supports the version of events you offered earlier, something other than a connection your mind happened to make.

I've read about the Tuskegee experiment before. It's quite disturbing.

Killer Wench

Kepti wrote: »

I wasn't looking for an example of your government lying to, or misleading it's citizens. I suspect we share common ground on the frequency at which that happens. I'd like something which supports the version of events you offered earlier, something other than a connection your mind happened to make.

I've read about the Tuskegee experiment before. It's quite disturbing.

My apologies. I misread the intent behind your comments.

There is a military policy called "Personnel Security" or PERSEC for short. PERSEC is about protecting the identity of the service person and this includes their rank, their location, and other identifying information that could harm their personal security. DELTA Force is still technically not acknowledged by the US government as being an existing entity, yet we know that they exist because of former members outing themselves. Then there is "Operational Security" that protects the detailed information regarding deployments, troop movements, and the number of members in a unit. I guess you could say that it is from my knowledge of OPSEC and PERSEC that this tiny grain of "what-if" exists.

Members of these elite teams do not look like the stereotypical soldier/sailor/airman/Marine that one sees in movies or on documentaries; they are groomed to blend into the general population so if that means that they have earrings, long hair, or facial hair, then it is whatever. Their effectiveness is based upon their ability to blend in and remain anonymous.

Here we have an elite Special Ops team that has just committed one of the biggest clandestine operations in our military history and we live in an era where even vetted military personnel will release highly sensitive information for their own motives. The media is still interested in who pulled the kill shot and there are ways of feeding the curiousity of the public, as we have seen with these stories about hacking. If the curiousity remained strong for the public (and lord knows, Americans love diversions rather than real issues) then the media would be tenacious in their investigation of who these people are. Here's the Yahoo story that I referenced before:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/inside-raid-killed-osama-bin-laden-crankshaft-devgru-193111385.html

I don't think they would have let up on trying to break this story, and the identity of these team members, if not for such a tragedy as what happened today.

Fremen

Bambi wrote: »

Most countries foreign policies are cynical and self serving though

Well, yes. That's why I tend not to go around cheering armies on.

later12

Can someone please fix the thread title? Portion

I know it's a small thing but, nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnhhhhhh

Manic Moran

Geekness1234 wrote: »

This thread is ridiculous,there are 38 grieving families and all you can do is argue about foreign policy and how SEAL should be SAL.

Meh, we're used to it. It's not a safe job and we're sortof used to being taken for granted.

I've always kindof wondered what the AH thread would be if I were killed in action.

NTM

amacachi

Manic Moran wrote: »

Meh, we're used to it. It's not a safe job and we're sortof used to being taken for granted.

I've always kindof wondered what the AH thread would be if I were killed in action.

NTM

I'd just avoid it tbh.

Manic Moran

I'd just avoid it tbh.

Might not be too hard. I've never heard anyone say there was Internet access in the Afterlife.

Heck, that really doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Eternity without the Web?

NTM

mattjack

Manic Moran wrote: »

Meh, we're used to it. It's not a safe job and we're sortof used to being taken for granted.

I've always kindof wondered what the AH thread would be if I were killed in action.

NTM

Dont let these things concern ..already a secret group has gathered and in the unlikely event anything happens to you, we have discussed and resolved a number of issues.
There are a number of outstanding issues..
1. your large collection of midget porn
2. the "farm" in Columbia......
3. your pet killer whale..

Conor108

RIP

Freddie59

It's quite sick to see how light people are making of the deaths of these soldiers. Amazingly, when terrorists are killed or injured there is uproar, with the now almost 'cool' condemnation of the USA. Were it not for these brave souls (and those who went before them) we would not be enjoying the freedoms we do now.

Worth thinking about before shooting your mouth off. May they Rest In Peace.

SamHarris

Fremen wrote: »

An informed response indeed. Did you pause to consider civilians killed by US forces when they invaded Afghanistan? You're looking at 12,000 at a very conservative estimate. Did you consider that the families of those 12,000 people will be radicalised against the US?

"Eradicate" terrorism my eye.

If people still dont realise why Afghanistan was a war that had to happen and the reasons why this is so I weep for them.

The government of another nation directly allowing and attack on another nations civilians and providing material support to those that did it, then refusing to crack down on the same people. You are never, ever going to find a "better" reason for a conflict between two states.

You cannot eradicate terrorism, true. You can make it much, much more difficult for groups to carry out major attacks.

Killer Wench

Freddie59 wrote: »

It's quite sick to see how light people are making of the deaths of these soldiers. Amazingly, when terrorists are killed or injured there is uproar, with the now almost 'cool' condemnation of the USA. Were it not for these brave souls (and those who went before them) we would not be enjoying the freedoms we do now.

Worth thinking about before shooting your mouth off. May they Rest In Peace.

If it weren't for those who fought in WWII, and the wars before that one, we would not be enjoying the freedoms that we do now.

Those who fought in Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan are not fighting for my freedom. They are fighting on the behalf of democratic ideals. My father is a Vietnam vet and my grandfather was a WWII vet and is buried in a veteran's cemetary, so I don't come from a position of not respecting those who have served. But, it really annoys me when people try to paint these current conflicts as though they are what is standing between us and loss of our freedoms. If anything, the biggest threat to my freedoms have come from my own government and the laws passed since 9/11 all in the name of my security.

When someone infringes on my freedom to speak openly against the government, I don't go running to my friends who are in the Army or in the Navy, I expect my freedoms to be fought in a court of law, upheld by judges, and reported on by journalists.

SamHarris

Arnold Layne wrote: »

So true.

I would never hope to shoot armed or otherwise terrorists/civilians.

I would rather have a steady job and raise a family, no matter how bad the current economic situation is.

But thats just me! :rolleyes:

If you would not kill someone who's express intent it is to kill others, and have proudly taken responsibility for it in the past - any and all Americans I remind you not just soldiers - then it by no means makes you a more moral or high minded person.

You would be placing your own safety and "moral superiority" ahead of the lives of all those they explicitly stated they wish to kill. If you had the power to stop it and chose not to you would be to some extent complicit. That is not to say that everyone should run off and join an army, but lacking basic foresight for the consequences of others actions and inaction when deciding how they feel about events is nothing to be proud of.

SamHarris

Kepti wrote: »

The world can't be easily be divided up into "good guys" and "bad guys". If you can provide an argument to justify the current wars, I'd like to hear it.

All wars are not equally justifiable nor have the same justification.

A direct attack on American citizens supported by a foreign government leading to 1000's of deaths? If you dont think that is a good enough reason for a war, tell me, what is?

SamHarris

Fremen wrote: »

US foreign policy works by carrot and stick. The carrot is international aid. These guys are the stick. I think US foreign policy is cynical and self-serving, so I don't have much respect for their military.

A nations foreign policy is self serving? My god. Im just glad Irelands foreign service is so dedicated to looking out for others national interest :rolleyes:

ted1

Will someone please think of the children...

mattjack

SamHarris wrote: »

A nations foreign policy is self serving? My god. Im just glad Irelands foreign service is so dedicated to looking out for others national interest :rolleyes:

American foreign policy originally supplied stinger missiles and CIA operatives to Afghanistan in the 80s..I wonder was it anti Soviet policy or an a genuine interest in Afghanistan..

ectoraige

ectoraige wrote: »

Does Heidi Klum know about this?

That made me laugh - moreso at the image of somewhat cuddly looking Seal being a killer.

SamHarris

mattjack wrote: »

American foreign policy originally supplied stinger missiles and CIA operatives to Afghanistan in the 80s..I wonder was it anti Soviet policy or an a genuine interest in Afghanistan..

I dont think anyone has any interest in Afghanistan bar from not letting anything bad come from there and go elsewhere. Whats your point? Mine was that countries have every right to look out for its own interests - to describe the motives of a government internationally as "self serving" as though that applies to only one or is ven "bad" is stupid, it is the very reason FOR a foreign policy.

mattjack

SamHarris wrote: »

I dont think anyone has any interest in Afghanistan bar from not letting anything bad come from there and go elsewhere. Whats your point? Mine was that countries have every right to look out for its own interests - to describe the motives of a government internationally as "self serving" as though that applies to only one or is ven "bad" is stupid, it is the very reason FOR a foreign policy.

your point really is that you support American foreign policy no matter the cost...be it US soldiers,Afghani citizens,Pakistanis..lets not forget the utter disregard for the soverignity of these and other nations..remember George Bush sayings ..."you are either with us or against us"..

SamHarris

mattjack wrote: »

your point really is that you support American foreign policy no matter the cost...be it US soldiers,Afghani citizens,Pakistanis..lets not forget the utter disregard for the soverignity of these and other nations..remember George Bush sayings ..."you are either with us or against us"..

Yes thats exactly what I said, well done. :rolleyes:

Fremen

SamHarris wrote: »

A nations foreign policy is self serving? My god. Im just glad Irelands foreign service is so dedicated to looking out for others national interest :rolleyes:

Tu quoque. Ireland doesn't have much of a foreign policy, apart from (nominally) staying neutral, and trying to cosy up to the US and UK.

Besides, I didn't offer an opinion on anyone else's policies, I just stated that America has a pretty grim track record.

SGTxWOODSx

Pickels

Latchy

Chinooks carrying large amounts of soldiers in and out of a war zones is maybe not the best idea and better to have smaller amounts of troops taken in by other methods , if only to keep make it harder for the enemy to take out and keep the casualty numbers down .

I cant rememer a time when British and American military weren't being wiped out ...christ I'm old .

Zebra3

SamHarris wrote: »

I dont think anyone has any interest in Afghanistan bar from not letting anything bad come from there and go elsewhere.

You don't know much about pipelines, do you? :rolleyes:

Killer Wench

Judging from the comments left on this Yahoo article, it appears that I am not the only one with a small question of doubt regarding this story.

http://news.yahoo.com/seals-rescue-mission-killed-afghan-crash-190240151.html

Turtwig

I have the utmost of respect for SEAL team bravery and courage. RIP all.

mattjack

SamHarris wrote: »

Yes thats exactly what I said, well done. :rolleyes:

so you,re happy to see innocents dying...:rolleyes:

jimthemental

Geekness1234 wrote: »

This thread is ridiculous,there are 38 grieving families and all you can do is argue about foreign policy and how SEAL should be SAL.

I think they are called DEVGRU now officially, along with Delta they'd be the top troops in the states. Appraently there's a few Irish army rangers working alongside them in Iraq as part of an international special op.

Greyfoot

Zebra3 wrote: »

You don't know much about pipelines, do you? :rolleyes:

And opium poppies...;)