muntjac.

crackcrack30

Now that there have been so many confirmed/unconfimed sightings and so few kills whats the concencus - are they here to stay? whats there breeding rate like?......... dont say rabbits:eek:

Cass

I know feck all from actual life experience, but according to nature websites and surveys done on them they live for up to 16 years, with the females reaching 19 at times, but this would not be often.

They are capable of breeding from 8-9 months and unlike normal deer DO NOT have rut, but instead breed all year round. They carry the young, usually one, for 7 months and can breed again within a few days of birth. So realistically you are looking at a single breeding pair producing over 16 offspring within their breeding lives. Couple this with say even 50 breeding pair (100 animals) and within a year you have 50 new young. The next year another 50 plus the new 50 breeding or able to so add another 25. Thats 75 for year 2. Year 3 goes on in the same manner. So within 5 years you could possibly have over 750 animals.

All thats pure guesstimation with 100 original animals. If there is more then the numbers go up.

Grizzly 45

With those breeding rates,we should be seeing somwhat more of them by now if there is a core pouplation in some specific area??

Cass

You would think so.

Again this is only going by what i've read and seen on TV so it has no basis other than that.

I've read/seen that some species when introduced to a new environment may not start to breed immediately and can be slow to populate. So either;

1. The amount released was small and the breeding is going well, but still not of a high enough rate to show.
2. The amount released was large enough but as said above they are not breeding as often as they could.
3. A combination of the two above.

underthetumb

i think untill i see a photo on this website or another one i frequent, i will wait to make my mindup.....

Tackleberrywho

underthetumb wrote: »

i think untill i see a photo on this website or another one i frequent, i will wait to make my mindup.....

I still have to see a pic of one, with a posters rifle in the background or the local paper

FISMA

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I still have to see a pic of one, with a posters rifle in the background or the local paper

I was just about to ask. Has anyone one on the board confirmed a sighting?

Feidhlim Dignan

there was a letter in sporting rile with a pic of a muntie shot in ireland. dont remember which issue and it might not be true but have a look for it

tfox

Last weeks shooting times has a photo of one shot in Co.Down. It was shot by the professor in Belfast who has been studying there existance in Ireland and writing numerous letters to the shooting magazines on the subject

The same fella verified the recent photo taken in a garden of a muntie.

Optimum

From here
http://invasives.biodiversityireland.ie/muntjac-map-ireland/
it looks like Co Down/Wicklow have the largest populations, granted not all are confirmed sightings.

Tackleberrywho

Optimum wrote: »

From here
http://invasives.biodiversityireland.ie/muntjac-map-ireland/
it looks like Co Down/Wicklow have the largest populations, granted not all are confirmed sightings.

Not 1 are confirmed sightings.....
Just on their website now.
Nothing stopping Joe Bloggs reporting a Bogus sighting in Stephens green

Deer Hunter DL

what about donegal ? if their not here can someone send some here

J. Ramone

Ezridax wrote: »

You would think so.

Again this is only going by what i've read and seen on TV so it has no basis other than that.

I've read/seen that some species when introduced to a new environment may not start to breed immediately and can be slow to populate. So either;

1. The amount released was small and the breeding is going well, but still not of a high enough rate to show.
2. The amount released was large enough but as said above they are not breeding as often as they could.
3. A combination of the two above.

I think that sums it up really.

There is no doubt that there are/were several animals in east Wicklow. I haven't seen any myself but I know a few reliable people who have seen them on more than one occasion. One friend recounted a muntjac trotting along the quiet country road which he described as an obviously tame animal.

The biggest question is whether captive bred animals (assuming all introductions/escapes were captive bred) will have the skills to successfully find a mate and safely raise their young in sufficient numbers to expand the population. Take reared pheasants for instance, 100 released birds introduced to an area with no wild birds would be expected to be less than half in number after a full breeding cycle. However if conditions were suitable, later generations may expand the population. This is because they would have more survival skills passed from the parent hen.

I'm guessing muntjac must be similar. I don't know if it was a single introduction or whether there in an ongoing introduction of muntjac in Ireland but I assume there would need to be a critical number released to avoid a reduction in numbers to a point where they could not sustain a future population. If the muntjac were deliberately released it's likely that those who released them were not zoologists and the number released may be well below what is required to establish a population. On the other hand, a half dozen wild pregnant does could quietly set up a thriving population.

With a wild population I think an expansion rate of 20-30% per anum would be realistic if you take appropriate mortality rates into account.

I haven't heard of any muntjac seen at all this year so their numbers could be reducing or they could be more adapted or both.

Birdnuts

Optimum wrote: »

From here
http://invasives.biodiversityireland.ie/muntjac-map-ireland/
it looks like Co Down/Wicklow have the largest populations, granted not all are confirmed sightings.

They must be much shyer and harder to spot then other deer cos I haven't spotted any yet and I do spend a fair bit of time in the woods round these parts

ClarkyTrd

They are here alright, I bought this weeks issue of Shooting Times and on page 13 there is a picture of a young Muntjac buck shot in County Down.

So lads, they are out there

50cal

They have been shot and pictured in Co Wicklow.

ClarkyTrd

There is some in Wicklow, I've heard from a few people that they have been seen north of Wicklow Town, yet to see one myself but will keep a good eye out.

Are Muntjac considered dangerous or is that just nonsense?

Birdnuts

ClarkyTrd wrote: »

.

Are Muntjac considered dangerous or is that just nonsense?

The males have small tusks like a wild pig - though I don't know would they use them like a Wild Boar which is obviously a much bigger and heavier animal in any case

ClarkyTrd

cheers for clearing that up Birdnuts!

I thought they were large enough but the picture in the magazine shows it beside a rifle and its only the length of the rifle so they seem small enough!

Birdnuts

ClarkyTrd wrote: »

cheers for clearing that up Birdnuts!

I thought they were large enough but the picture in the magazine shows it beside a rifle and its only the length of the rifle so they seem small enough!

Indeed - but I remember reading somewhere that their the deer equivalent of a terrier!!

Fallow01

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Now that there have been so many confirmed/unconfimed sightings and so few kills whats the concencus - are they here to stay? whats there breeding rate like?......... dont say rabbits:eek:

There are pictures on the Wild Deer Ireland FB page of Muntjac shot in Wicklow, while there is no newspaper in the background to prove it, I know the man who shot it and would say he is reliable

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.163871716968811.31105.125121684177148&type=1

Grizzly 45

Intresting what WADI is claiming as evidence of muntjac,there on face book and in comparision to the invasive species map.

http://invasives.biodiversityireland.ie/muntjac-map-ireland/#

Are they taking only shot animals as evidence?
Invasive Irl,is confusing the issue there too,by having "muntjac confirmed"..How?A kill?A sighting by a reputable person,or what?
Likewise Muntjack Vs an event??? What sort of an event?Muntjack exiting a UFO?:).Nor is somone collating the facts properly.

EG.The Muntjac "event" in Co Clare.
that first showed up in the returned deer cull figures here in 2009[?].So somone in Co Clare must have shot one,if they genuinely put it on their return figures,[otherwise it was just a fukactin,which makes a balls of everything].
As this is close to my beat,I've asked all and sundry,and no one seems to know anything about this Muntie kill down here.
Question.Why hasnt WADI got this as a confirmed kill?Or invasive Irl,got an interview with these hunters who have shot them,and let the rest of us know what or where they have been genuinely killed?
Doesnt seem to be any intercommunication between NPWS,WADI and invasive Ireland on facts and figures.Which is making the problem look possibly bigger than it is??

Anywhich way,if somone does shoot one,a pic with your most current local newspaper/chip wrapper would be great.

mrbrianj

Would you not believe a poster who came on and said they shot one and photo'd it? Why is a newspaper needed?

I understand sceptism with a hearsay account of" a mates 2nd cousin knows someone who shot one" but a first hand account? I mean we are a small enough hunting community even smaller deer stalking group - surely there must be some trust left

Fallow01

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Intresting what WADI is claiming as evidence of muntjac,there on face book and in comparision to the invasive species map.

http://invasives.biodiversityireland.ie/muntjac-map-ireland/#

Are they taking only shot animals as evidence?
Invasive Irl,is confusing the issue there too,by having "muntjac confirmed"..How?A kill?A sighting by a reputable person,or what?
Likewise Muntjack Vs an event??? What sort of an event?Muntjack exiting a UFO?:).Nor is somone collating the facts properly.

EG.The Muntjac "event" in Co Clare.
that first showed up in the returned deer cull figures here in 2009[?].So somone in Co Clare must have shot one,if they genuinely put it on their return figures,[otherwise it was just a fukactin,which makes a balls of everything].
As this is close to my beat,I've asked all and sundry,and no one seems to know anything about this Muntie kill down here.
Question.Why hasnt WADI got this as a confirmed kill?Or invasive Irl,got an interview with these hunters who have shot them,and let the rest of us know what or where they have been genuinely killed?
Doesnt seem to be any intercommunication between NPWS,WADI and invasive Ireland on facts and figures.Which is making the problem look possibly bigger than it is??

Anywhich way,if somone does shoot one,a pic with your most current local newspaper/chip wrapper would be great.

Grizzly/ mrbrianj - I would say your both right in what you are saying, as I have seen photographs of wild boar shot in Tipperary, Reindeer found in Limerick, a video of a muntjac been shot (unknown location) on the wild deer FB page, like this forum it's a place to share information, experiences. photo's from like minded people. Are they all true?? the fact you put your name with a link to your FB page, I would have some trust in them.

To be fair to Wild Deer Ireland I don't think there making a statement or claim just facilitating folk, as this forum does very well. http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/icons/icon7.gif

At the same time I attended a meeting in Tipperary called the Muntjac roadshow, a guy from Invasive Ireland gave a good presentation and then handed out envelopes so people could report suspected sightings of Muntjac, I know a guy who sent the envelope back with a possible sighting but never heard a word again or was it investigated by Invasive Ireland. Surprise surprise I now see from the Invasive map that his report is up there. There were around 60/70 people at the meeting how many sent back envelopes......

Invasive at the meeting said there is a pen in the Wicklow area, maybe one or two got out, I would say that is it as far as muntjac are in Ireland. The photographs on the Wild Deer Ireland website and FB page are both supposed to be in Wicklow. Also there is supposed to be a pen in Co Down - same story.

Deerspotter

As someone who is out spotting all over the place all of the year, I can tell you that I have not seen one, or met anyone else that has. Someone once told me they thought they heard one! My hole!

If they are here, they are random escapees and I'd be sure there is no breeding herd.
The post at the beginning of this thread sums it up, if there was even two breeding pairs, they would be at least doubling every year.
Ireland is TOO small to hide a herd of mamals.

J. Ramone

Deerspotter wrote: »

they would be at least doubling every year.

I can't see how 50% annual increase can be achieved. How do you work out a possible doubling given a 7 month gestation and bearing in mind that male deer can't give birth. Also factor in the (albeit short) time to maturity of females not to mention mortality and isolation of individual animals.

As I suggested in a previous post it's possible that they are dieing out due to lack of critical numbers.

I suspect that the NPWS are well clued in given that circulars were sent with deer licences about alien deer threats prior to the first muntjac being shot in Wicklow in 2008. They aren't giving us much information but have sent out another plea for information from hunters with this years licences. Whoever are responsible for the escapes/releases have remained remarkably tight lipped as there is not even rumour of the numbers released or the locations of the releases.