Public sector going backwards again.

7sr2z3fely84g5

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0804/school.html

There will be larger class sizes for primary and secondary schools from next year if proposed spending cuts go ahead.
The Department of Education and Skills is planning to increase class size because it cannot cut teachers' pay or conditions under the Croke Park Agreement.
If planned cuts proceed, next year class size in primary schools will increase from 27 to 28 pupils per teacher. The sizing in secondary schools will increase from 19 pupils per teacher to 20.
The Department estimates these measures would save up to €75m.
Increasing class sizes would mean schools could lose up to 1,200 teaching posts.
These permanent teachers would not lose their jobs but would be redeployed to schools with increasing enrolment numbers that need extra teachers.
The Croke Park Agreement protects teachers against any forced cuts in jobs or pay conditions.
The ASTI trade union, representing secondary school teachers, is appealing to the department not to increase class sizes.
It says the move will lead to smaller schools having to totally cut science and language subjects from their timetables.
The Department of Education and Skills has this week written to various school patrons seeking expressions of interest in operating 14 new schools that it plans to open in 2013 and 2014.
The new schools are being built to cater for a predicted 5% increase in pupil numbers.
The department plans to open schools in Claregalway, Lusk, Naas and Navan in 2013.
While in 2014, it will open schools in Ashbourne, Blanchardstown, Mulhuddart, Drogheda, Dundalk, Greystones and Maynooth, as well as Gaelscoils in Cork city, and Balbriggan and Dundrum in Dublin.

God almighty what sort of soft touch governments do we have?.

RichieC

http://www.11points.com/images/lisaswedding/classcrowding.jpg

PseudoFamous

Offer all teachers their wages with a 25% cut throughout the schoolyear, and a 50% cut during holiday months. They can get another job during the summer if needs be. If they're not happy with their new wage, give 'em their P45. Rinse and repeat with all public sector jobs, and eliminate the adjustment period to retirement altogether where it exists.

DrumSteve

Lets just kill them all now... to hell with the public sector. :pac:

One extra kid in a class is not a big deal.

7sr2z3fely84g5

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Offer all teachers their wages with a 25% cut throughout the schoolyear, and a 50% cut during holiday months. They can get another job during the summer if needs be. If they're not happy with their new wage, give 'em their P45. Rinse and repeat with all public sector jobs, and eliminate the adjustment period to retirement altogether where it exists.

Problem is,there's an embargo in place,so anyone retiring is not been replaced,those who retired are getting nice pensions which seem to be immune to cuts.

pragmatic1

Really forward thinking of them. Jesus ****ing Christ.

PseudoFamous

Romeo Hot Ware wrote: »

Problem is,there's an embargo in place,so anyone retiring is not been replaced,those who retired are getting nice pensions which seem to be immune to cuts.

Cut their pension by 25% if they retired in the last two years, and hold that up for anyone who retires in the coming years. Easy.

While the government are at it, they should issue biometric ID cards, and crosscheck accounts to prevent people from claiming the dole multiple times, or whilst working. It'll probably work out cheaper than a year of fraudulent dole payments.

The government are bloody useless, they get nothing done, and manage to burn money while they're at it.

7sr2z3fely84g5

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Cut their pension by 25% if they retired in the last two years, and hold that up for anyone who retires in the coming years. Easy.

Problem with our system is there's so many contracts and conditions going back for years which worked out in favour for anyone retiring or have been in the system for last 40 years,i assume if we ran the system like aer lingus/ryanair there be alot of people given the boot.

PseudoFamous

Romeo Hot Ware wrote: »

Problem with our system is there's so many contracts and conditions going back for years which worked out in favour for anyone retiring or have been in the system for last 40 years,i assume if we ran the system like aer lingus/ryanair there be alot of people given the boot.

P45 them all, and offer them their jobs back with the cuts. It's not as if they have somewhere else to work in Ireland

ShamoBuc

DrumSteve wrote: »

Lets just kill them all now... to hell with the public sector. :pac:

One extra kid in a class is not a big deal.

:rolleyes:

You obviously haven't a clue how the pupil teacher ratio works

Absurdum

meh, we had 40+ in our class in primary school, young people these days have no idea how good they have it

DrumSteve

ShamoBuc wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You obviously haven't a clue how the pupil teacher ratio works

:rolleyes: = I stopped reading there.

ShamoBuc

Absurdum wrote: »

meh, we had 40+ in our class in primary school, young people these days have no idea how good they have it

Ah, the good old days! We had 37 or 38 I think on average, don't think I was ever in one of 40 though - but close. Then again we weren't allowed move/talk/scratch our arse or we would have got a fine smack - times have changed, thankfully.

ShamoBuc

DrumSteve wrote: »

:rolleyes: = I stopped reading there.

Google it if you want to find out what an increase in the PTR actually means to class size.;)

Gophur

80% of the costs of education, in Ireland, is spent on staff salaries.

gbee

When I was in sixth class I was one of 64 students.

TheDriver

nothing beats another bit of Teacher bashing.........horrahhhh.
Teachers would work for free and people still expect them to take a pay cut.

Just be prepared in Sept 2012 when your Child in secondary school cannot do a subject because the school had to drop it.

Absurdum

TheDriver wrote: »

Just be prepared in Sept 2012 when your Child in secondary school cannot do a subject because the school had to drop it.

damn right, why the hell should little Johnny study French if it means Mr Developer has to downsize the Range Rover?

Tehachapi

TheDriver wrote: »

nothing beats another bit of Teacher bashing.........horrahhhh.
Teachers would work for free and people still expect them to take a pay cut.

The country is bankrupt, in the future they will most definitely be taking substantial paycuts whether they like it or not, or whether it's fair or not.

jester77

TheDriver wrote: »

nothing beats another bit of Teacher bashing.........horrahhhh.
Teachers would work for free and people still expect them to take a pay cut.

Just be prepared in Sept 2012 when your Child in secondary school cannot do a subject because the school had to drop it.

What an attitude.

Let the kids suffer because the teachers won't take a cut.

Feeona

'' 'Public Sector Workers are Soulless Individuals Without Any Redeeming Features' thread in After Hours'' shocker!!!!!!!!!

Bull****
It was revealed today that another thread was started in After Hours about how f*cking awful the Public Sector is.


The Public Sector is F*cking awful
It follows various media and government spin articles which go on about 'how f*cking awful the Public Sector is'.


Sexy girl and drugs
To make matters worse for the Public Sector, pictures were last week released of the Public Sector cavorting with a sexy girl while consuming vast quantities of drugs.


Hand wringing
A hand wringing helpline has now been set up for those who have been exposed to the Public Sector and it's vagaries. Please ring 5138008 for further assistance.

TheDriver

jester77 wrote: »

What an attitude.

Let the kids suffer because the teachers won't take a cut.

You are clearly misinformed, Teachers have taken roughly 20% cut so far.

cosmicfart

Cant say I have much time for teachers, i use to have geography teacher that smelled something awful, i failed my entrance exam into secondary school due to nerves and was put into the lowest class with all the messes and ended up becoming one of them. spent the next 5 years been baby sitted by teachers who didnt give a toss and werent bothered at all whatsoever trying to teach. It was only after i left school and got into the big bad world did my education begin!! I actually passed my leaving cert and went onto college as a mature student because i became determined to learn!

Shirleysrumbler

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Offer all teachers their wages with a 25% cut throughout the schoolyear, and a 50% cut during holiday months. They can get another job during the summer if needs be. If they're not happy with their new wage, give 'em their P45. Rinse and repeat with all public sector jobs, and eliminate the adjustment period to retirement altogether where it exists.

I take it that taking a Public Service job was "below you" back in theday. Did you get to pay off your mortgage either with all the cash you got for cash jobs in those "Boom Years" or maybe your employer did a bit of a number for you with the BIK on the company car. Were your bonuses paid as travel maybe. Also when myself and my fellow Public Servants are trying to pay our Kid's college fees will you be able to get your accountant to fiddle the books to get a grant for your Privately Educated Offspring. Now that the boom is over it's quite ironic that the facist masses are so jealous of people they treated as s**t on their shoes as they took their spoiled brats out of school early to go Skiing, shopping to NY or on an early break for Easter. Oh how nice it would be to be treated as t=he self same excrement of a few years back and to have another €300 in my pocket every week.

Feeona

cosmicfart wrote: »

Cant say I have much time for teachers, i use to have geography teacher that smelled something awful, i failed my entrance exam into secondary school due to nerves and was put into the lowest class with all the messes and ended up becoming one of them. spent the next 5 years been baby sitted by teachers who didnt give a toss and werent bothered at all whatsoever trying to teach. It was only after i left school and got into the big bad world did my education begin!! I actually passed my leaving cert and went onto college as a mature student because i became determined to learn!

Both of the sentences highlighted in bold were choices you made, yet it seems that the first choice was 'the fault of the teachers', while the second choice came about 'despite the teachers'.

It's amazing how much the chip on your shoulder about teachers influences how you view the choices you made.

ChunkyLover_53

PseudoFamous wrote: »

P45 them all, and offer them their jobs back with the cuts. It's not as if they have somewhere else to work in Ireland

F*ck Yeah!

Sack everyone! P45s all around!

Lets get cheaper labour in from abroad for all jobs! Woo!

cosmicfart

Feeona wrote: »

Both of the sentences highlighted in bold were choices you made, yet it seems that the first choice was 'the fault of the teachers', while the second choice came about 'despite the teachers'.

It's amazing how much the chip on your shoulder about teachers influences how you view the choices you made.

my point was/is that the system failed me in a big way. Perhaps it was just the school I was in but my opinion of secondary teachers in general from my experience is of people that are nothing more than baby/day sitters, were only the prize pupils get the attention

hatrickpatrick

How about instead of cutting either, we cut the few tens of billions we're putting into failed gamblers in banks and put it into something worthwhile like education instead?

7sr2z3fely84g5

cosmicfart wrote: »

my point was/is that the system failed me in a big way. Perhaps it was just the school I was in but my opinion of secondary teachers in general from my experience is of people that are nothing more than baby/day sitters, were only the prize pupils get the attention

i have to agree on this,the snide comments some teachers gave some students was absolutely disgusting,but they where quick to oppose the websites which rated teachers.

gbee

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How about instead of cutting either, we cut the few tens of billions we're putting into failed gamblers in banks and put it into something worthwhile like education instead?

If you want wealth then you actually do not want an education. Most of the self-made millionaires and entrepreneurs either never had formal education or dropped out, not least that Gates fellow.

So dropping school might not be such a bad idea.

Shirleysrumbler

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

I take it that taking a Public Service job was "below you" back in theday. Did you get to pay off your mortgage either with all the cash you got for cash jobs in those "Boom Years" or maybe your employer did a bit of a number for you with the BIK on the company car. Were your bonuses paid as travel maybe. Also when myself and my fellow Public Servants are trying to pay our Kid's college fees will you be able to get your accountant to fiddle the books to get a grant for your Privately Educated Offspring. Now that the boom is over it's quite ironic that the facist masses are so jealous of people they treated as s**t on their shoes as they took their spoiled brats out of school early to go Skiing, shopping to NY or on an early break for Easter. Oh how nice it would be to be treated as t=he self same excrement of a few years back and to have another €300 in my pocket every week.

sigh.

Hundreds and hundreds of people who worked in the Private Sector worked in shops, cafes, pubs 'back in the day'

Do you think these people were 'Skiing, shopping to NY or on an early break for Easter'. In fact, think about how many of those are now on the dole...

There are now 470,000 people on the dole today.
Think about the number of factories/shops/cafes/businesses that have closed in just 4 years to reach that number.
Think of the 1000s of young people who have left Ireland.

It is an economic meltdown in a relatively short period of time.

For those that did live the high life, 'Skiing, shopping to NY or on an early break for Easter'...how many years do you think they enjoyed this for?
Maybe from 2002 - 2007? 5 years?

Now those that have lost their jobs in Ireland now, what hope do they have? What future can they look forward to?

You say the Public Service has taken a 20% pay cut. So what?
Why to you remind us of this so regularly?
Is it not enough?
Is it too much?

In 2014, you will still have a job.

1000s more won't.

Feeona

cosmicfart wrote: »

my point was/is that the system failed me in a big way. Perhaps it was just the school I was in but my opinion of secondary teachers in general from my experience is of people that are nothing more than baby/day sitters, were only the prize pupils get the attention

You have admitted yourself that you only became determined to learn when you were a mature student. Which means you weren't determined to learn when you were at secondary school. You have to take responsibility for the part that you yourself played in your failed secondary education and stop placing the blame entirely on the education system. And it is a system, a system that works on standards. If the education system didn't play to the average joe soap, what you'd have is a system which takes every single individual's difficulties, strengths, weaknesses etc into account. Which in a class of thirty would have meant that your school day would have finished up at four in the morning at a stretch.

TheZohanS

salonfire wrote: »

You say the Public Service has taken a 20% pay cut. So what?
Why to you remind us of this so regularly?
Is it not enough?
Is it too much?

In 2014, you will still have a job.

1000s more won't.

Ah but they haven't taken a 20% pay cut, they still receive the 20% but it's paid into their massive pensions.

cosmicfart

Feeona wrote: »

You have admitted yourself that you only became determined to learn when you were a mature student. Which means you weren't determined to learn when you were at secondary school. You have to take responsibility for the part that you yourself played in your failed secondary education and stop placing the blame entirely on the education system. And it is a system, a system that works on standards. If the education system didn't play to the average joe soap, what you'd have is a system which takes every single individual's difficulties, strengths, weaknesses etc into account. Which in a class of thirty would have meant that your school day would have finished up at four in the morning at a stretch.

You're all backwards here. I was 13 when I joined secondary school, THIRTEENTH, a feckin kid, I had just moved to a new area were i knew no-one, first day in new school failed entrance exam and got shoved in the messers class from which I 'made new friends'. the teachers, all of them had the opinion that anyone in this messers class was just a useless prat not worthy of opening a book and trying to teach too. Im sure their a plenty of similar examples of this right to this day, infact im positive.

Feeona

jester77 wrote: »

Let the kids suffer because the teachers won't take a cut.

salonfire wrote: »

You say the Public Service has taken a 20% pay cut. So what?
Why to you remind us of this so regularly?

Maybe because comments like the one in bold are bandied about with gay abandon?

Feeona

cosmicfart wrote: »

You're all backwards here. I was 13 when I joined secondary school, THIRTEENTH, a feckin kid, I had just moved to a new area were i knew no-one, first day in new school failed entrance exam and got shoved in the messers class from which I 'made new friends'. the teachers, all of them had the opinion that anyone in this messers class was just a useless prat not worthy of opening a book and trying to teach too. Im sure their a plenty of similar examples of this right to this day, infact im positive.

It's your choice if you want to think this way, but it's a choice that'll always hold you back.

EDIT : The exact same happened to me. I moved from the country to the town when I was thirteen, and it wasn't under the best of circumstances. I knew no-one, I hated secondary school and couldn't wait to leave. There were teachers I didn't get on with, but I can look back now and realise that I had to work with them for them to work with me. So many doors have opened up to me since I took responsibility for my own actions.

BEASTERLY

Lets look at this realisticly.

The average teacher works 22hrs a week thats less half the norm.

They work 7 months of the year. Work it out and you'll see thats about 1/4 the amount of hours per year than the norm.

A starting salary of 27000 would be very high even in a full time job. But let's be nice, well keep 27,000 as a normal starting salary.

A teachers works a quarter of the amount of hours than people in the real world those so that means the starting salary should be 27000 divided by 4 and you get 6,850. Now thats a fair salary.

The fact that they get paid any more than this is a disgrace.


This is starting hourly wage of around €45 per hour :O. Now imagine the ones that have been there for a while!

Complaining about cuts when they get paid 4 times the amount they should anyway makes teachers show how greedy, childish and selfish they are, ye are ALL an absaloute disgrace. Get real will ye!!!!

cosmicfart

Feeona wrote: »

It's your choice if you want to think that way, but it's a choice that'll always hold you back.

The isnt Pepsi the choice of a new generation and my choice as you put it is suppose to be put in the hands of capable people in school who are suppose to mould the next generation workforce.

TheZohanS

BEASTERLY wrote: »

Lets look at this realisticly.

The average teacher works 22hrs a week thats less half the norm.

They work 7 months of the year. Work it out and you'll see thats about 1/4 the amount of hours per year than the norm.

A starting salary of 27000 would be very high even in a full time job. But let's be nice, well keep 27,000 as a normal starting salary.

A teachers works a quarter of the amount of hours than people in the real world those so that means the starting salary should be 27000 divided by 4 and you get 6,850. Now thats a fair salary.

The fact that they get paid any more than this is a disgrace.

Complaining about cuts when they get paid 4 times the amount they should anyway makes teachers show how greedy, childish and selfish they are, ye are ALL an absaloute disgrace. Get real will ye!!!!

You forgot the other 12 hours they work after school putting a big red correct mark on the kids copies. 'tis all hard graft for the poor mites.

ILikeBananas

I wish I was a teacher

Blondini

BEASTERLY wrote: »

Lets look at this realisticly.

The average teacher works 22hrs a week thats less half the norm.

They work 7 months of the year. Work it out and you'll see thats about 1/4 the amount of hours per year than the norm.

A starting salary of 27000 would be very high even in a full time job. But let's be nice, well keep 27,000 as a normal starting salary.

A teachers works a quarter of the amount of hours than people in the real world those so that means the starting salary should be 27000 divided by 4 and you get 6,850. Now thats a fair salary.

The fact that they get paid any more than this is a disgrace.

Complaining about cuts when they get paid 4 times the amount they should anyway makes teachers show how greedy, childish and selfish they are, ye are ALL an absaloute disgrace. Get real will ye!!!!

So you want to pay them less than the current annual dole right?

27000/4 is 6,750 by the way.

Clever Post.

TheDriver

and its such an easy job, so relaxed, so boring with nothing to do all day everyday. With no pay cut (which is wrong, we all took a pay cut).

So I can also see why everyone here complaining about Teachers having an easy life all wanted to become one.
Give it a try some day lads, try standing on front of 30 teenagers keeping them occupied and interested, all with different parenting, all acting differently.
Then lets see ye come on here and give out...........

BEASTERLY

BEASTERLY wrote: »

Lets look at this realisticly.

The average teacher works 22hrs a week thats less half the norm.

They work 7 months of the year. Work it out and you'll see thats about 1/4 the amount of hours per year than the norm.

A starting salary of 27000 would be very high even in a full time job. But let's be nice, well keep 27,000 as a normal starting salary.

A teachers works a quarter of the amount of hours than people in the real world those so that means the starting salary should be 27000 divided by 4 and you get 6,850. Now thats a fair salary.

The fact that they get paid any more than this is a disgrace.

Complaining about cuts when they get paid 4 times the amount they should anyway makes teachers show how greedy, childish and selfish they are, ye are ALL an absaloute disgrace. Get real will ye!!!!

To be fair, I wouldn't say €27000 is a great salary for new teachers now.

Take away tax, and pension contributions, take home pay wouldn't be that fantastic.

The real steal is those higher up the pay scale, teachers who dossed for the past 20 years pulling €50000 - €60000, and who are so entrenched wouldn't give up an inch if they got away with it.

Feeona

cosmicfart wrote: »

The isnt Pepsi the choice of a new generation and my choice as you put it is suppose to be put in the hands of capable people in school who are suppose to mould the next generation workforce.

It's sad that you don't think you have a choice on how you view your past.

BEASTERLY

Blondini wrote: »

So you want to pay them less than the current annual dole right?

Thats what happens when you choose the work a part time job, which effectively they have.

BEASTERLY

salonfire wrote: »

To be fair, I wouldn't say €27000 is a great salary for new teachers now.

Take away tax, and pension contributions, take home pay wouldn't be that fantastic.

The real steal is those higher up the pay scale, teachers who dossed for the past 20 years pulling €50000 - €60000, and who are so entrenched wouldn't give up an inch if they got away with it.

Even when they only work a quarter the amount of hours as most other people?

Feeona

BEASTERLY wrote: »

Thats what happens when you choose the work a part time job, which effectively they have.

Do you have links for that? And I also want links for work done outside of teaching hours.

Feeona

BEASTERLY wrote: »

Even when they only work a quarter the amount of hours as most other people?

Proof?

Links?


Troll?

Teacher bashing in AH is getting extremely tiresome. You have people coming in here who have no idea what its like to teach or how much work it really involves looking for them to take a further reduction in a wage that has already been cut with levies etc in the last while. They are not even well paid to start off with.

Then again a lot of people are as thick as the wall and just believe what they want and jump on the anti teacher/public servant bandwagon despite having absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

BEASTERLY

Feeona wrote: »

Proof?

Links?


Troll?

The working week of a secondary teacher is 22 hours a week. Then take the holidays away from the 52 weeks in a year. Dont be so lazy, why do need everything handed to you? Oh let me guess, you are a teacher!

Feeona

BEASTERLY wrote: »

The working week of a secondary teacher is 22 hours a week. Then take the holidays away from the 52 weeks in a year. Dont be so lazy, why do need everything handed to you? Oh let me guess, you are a teacher!

I'm waiting for a link, not your opinion. Back your facts up, otherwise I'll assume you're talking bullsh*t