is it absolutely vital for a dogs wellbeing they sleep indoors

amacca

Hi all....posted here a while back looking for advice on what breed of dog to choose, where to source a dog........and got some very helpful responses so thought I would come back looking for peoples opinions (negative or positive) on the below


decided would try to rescue a dog from the pound if a suitable one came up as one of the best dogs I've ever had before came from a pound ( springer spaniel - rescued about 18 yrs ago now, sadly died about 5 yrs ago...wish he could have lived forever)


so I've done the rounds of a lot of the pounds/rescue/rehoming centres and a filled out application/request forms etc


nothing as yet but I've noticed a similar question coming up in a lot of the forms, namely

Do you intend to let the dog sleep indoors or outside in a kennel/outhouse etc

My answer has always been truthful....the dog will sleep in a kennel/outbuilding (like every dog I have ever owned)

a couple of days ago I got a call from a pound (that shall remain nameless)....and the lady there just flat out stated something along the lines of its not there policy to rehome dogs to owners that don't let them sleep in the house

while I can see why this is a good idea in some cases and for for some dogs it seems strange to me to apply this as a blanket requirement for a number of (maybe not good reasons but that's why I'm looking for opinions)


1) the last dog I had was rescued.....he never slept in the house...but that did not mean he was not a very happy dog (I suppose you will have to take my word for this but as god is my witness it is true)

...seems to me there is a possibility this blanket policy may mean some dog who could have had what I would consider at least to be a good home provided by myself may now be put down

2) Not every dog in the country sleeps inside the house presumably some dogs coming in for rehoming dont mind sleeping in a kennel/outbuilding...are not conditioned to sleeping in the home.

3) A number of people I know let their dog sleep in the kitchen (unheated) - how is this superior to sleeping in an outbuilding/kennel?....its not as if the owner is sleeping with them in the kitchen.



at a time when there are supposedly so many dogs been destroyed for want of a good home is it silly to apply this as a blanket rule

dog would be well minded, well fed and never short of stimulation/activity with me...(I live down the country...my last dog got long walks every day + played with myself and my parents daily [retrieving tennis balls etc] + accompanied me when I worked outside)

I can see the need for these procedures by the way (the last time I got a dog from a pound the only requirement was that I had to get a dog license) I know they are there to protect the dog, I just think the sleeping inside one may be ill considered to apply as a blanket rule and can see a situation where possibly less suitable owners may rehome a dog simply because they say they will allow the dog to sleep indoors.

lrushe

Generally speaking: -

Summer: Outside in insulated kennel
Winter: Inside in a spare bedroom

My dogs prefer to be outside in summer, they don't settle inside (panting & pacing etc.), with the exception of my Chihuahua who sleeps in her crate in the kitchen year round, again her choice.

cocker5

Amacca

No i dont think its imperative that a dog must sleep indoors, it really depends on the dog and breed.... for me personally all of my dogs have been indoor dogs, and more than likely in the future this wont change either... for me my dog is very much part of the family, he is involved in almost everything we do (apart from work etc)... so for me outting him outside would be like an exclusion.

Is there a reason why you wont allow a dog to sleep inside? will the dog be allowed in the house during other periods?

I think rescues dont like placing dogs in outdoor situations as mot of these dogs have been abused in some frorm or other and they desperatelt need a family and to feel secure etc... by having the dog sleeping inside can help this process.... alot of these dogs were probably dumped in the back garden for hours on end alone... so ensuring they will be allowed to sleep indorrs tries to eliminate this from happening again... IMO

Best of luck...

have you tried searching on donedeal for people who are looking to rehome thier pets (not to purchase one) or how about on here boards do a rehomeing thread too...

catch me if you can

Hey the winters we have been having are horrific. I dont think it is humane to leave a dog outdoors in winter time.
I have a somoyed husky and he has two thick coats in winter but i still kepp him in. He has his bed in the utility room. on a fine night in summer i might leave him out with the shed open.
I cant see a reason to leave a dog outside its its very cold, and icy out. pack dogs huddle together to keep warm. but if you have one dog the cold might actually shorten the dogs life.

amacca

cocker5 wrote: »

Is there a reason why you wont allow a dog to sleep inside? will the dog be allowed in the house during other periods?

my semi-elderly mum doesn't like having dogs indoors (despite liking dogs) ...much of the reason is probably that doggy smell + shedding hair etc.....she just cant come to terms with it and probably never will and I respect that.


I suppose the dog would very rarely come indoors..................then again I'm very rarely indoors myself during the day (my father the same and mum spends a lot of time outside too, gardening/pottering etc)................dog definitely wouldnt be short of human contact/interaction during the day.


If I personally thought not being allowed into the house had a particularly negative effect on any dog I've ever owned I suppose I wouldn't be looking for one.

it never bothered the last dog at all....he would pop his head in the door to look at what was going on and then go off....remember him sneaking food of my dad occasionally who used to feed him scraps....never met a happier dog....didn't want to be inside unless there was food on offer..just got used to not coming inside.

tks for your suggestions I will look at adverts.ie for rehoming ads

amacca

catch me if you can wrote: »

Hey the winters we have been having are horrific. I dont think it is humane to leave a dog outdoors in winter time.
I have a somoyed husky and he has two thick coats in winter but i still kepp him in. He has his bed in the utility room. on a fine night in summer i might leave him out with the shed open.
I cant see a reason to leave a dog outside its its very cold, and icy out. pack dogs huddle together to keep warm. but if you have one dog the cold might actually shorten the dogs life.

tks -...but just to clarify I just mean not sleeping in the house itself...

I don't mean sleeping under the stars.... dog would be in an outbuilding (garage or barn probably with bedding/water, roof over its head etc)

sambuka41

I think the indoor/outdoor thing should really depend on the dog, breed, personality, background. If a dog has always slept outside then it may be hard for them to adjust. I would prefer for all dogs to be indoors, even if that means that they are confined to a particular area,at least they are safer. (how many dogs are being stolen lately:()

But with the winters that we have been having, all dogs should be indoors at that time. Its not worth taking the risk leaving them out.

andreac

If the dog is never going to be indoors then how much company/interaction will it have on a daily basis apart from walks?
Dogs should be a part of the family and i dont think a dog should be kept outdoors all the time.
Mine sleep indoors and are rarely outside unless they want to go out.

Sassy58

How much time are you going to spend with the dog on a one to one - its well and good saying people potter around the garden etc but dogs are very much pack animals and most love being part of it. What happens on days you have to work late or when you are going out after work.

Personally speaking I think to leave a dog outside while you are inside watching telly etc is just isolating a dog and as for saying dogs seem happy with this - lets be honest they are not really getting a say in it I am sure if they did most dogs would much prefer to be in the house.

For me personally I couldn't leave my dogs out the back, its a personal decision and one I made the first day I decided to take on the responsibility of owning a dog - dogs bark at night fact be it from a cat walking along your wall or from sounds they hear and I certainly don't want to fall out with my neighbours over dogs I decided to take on.

We use to leave the dogs out during the day when we were in work and then from when we got home they were in the house till we went to work the next morning. Now they are in the house all the time even when we are at work - they love nothing more then using a cat as a pillow

amacca

andreac wrote: »

If the dog is never going to be indoors then how much company/interaction will it have on a daily basis apart from walks?

I run a farm so he would be very much keeping me company during the day.

I really dont spend that much time in the house during the day...I'm coming and going on a daily basis pretty much all day...fixing fences...herding cattle...mending pipe...feeding animals...it really never ends (trust me) but dont want a working dog just a companion - last guy I had loved his life (at leas imo - never stopped wagging his tail)

however I suppose it would be unrealistic to say I'm with the dog all day every day......but one of us probably would.

my dad used to talk to our previous dog!.......dog definitely wouldnt want for interaction/stimulation/exercise

but just to clarify again...dog wouldnt be sleeping outdoors at night..just not inside the house

catch me if you can

I run a farm

sounds like a good life for a dog.
just make sure the outbuilding has lots of hay and is warm .
can i ask how is the dog kept on the land? you wouldnt be tying him up?

amacca

Sassy58 wrote: »

How much time are you going to spend with the dog on a one to one - its well and good saying people potter around the garden etc but dogs are very much pack animals and most love being part of it. What happens on days you have to work late or when you are going out after work.

well yeah I wont be bringing him with me on social occasions ..when I go to the pub etc but I think I have the advantage over a lot of people when you consider the dog can go to my work and its not far off his natural environment........my previous lad wend everywhere with me and used to flush out birds (pheasants/wood pigeons etc) into my path...+ there really is always something to do around the place everyday so the action is outside a lot of the time during the day

Sassy58 wrote: »

For me personally I couldn't leave my dogs out the back, its a personal decision and one I made the first day I decided to take on the responsibility of owning a dog - dogs bark at night fact be it from a cat walking along your wall or from sounds they hear and I certainly don't want to fall out with my neighbours over dogs I decided to take on.

ours only barked if a stranger called.....annoying the neighbours in that way not so much of a problem if you live down the country where nearest neigbour is half a km up the road........plenty of other ways to annoy them though:D

carleigh

My Golden Cocker sleeps indoors, he has the run of the house most of the time! When I got him, I had him sleeping in the garage (attached to house), I got a nice kennel made for him, and he was happy enough there for a almost a year. But he kept getting colds/sniffles etc, so the vet recommended we move him into the house altogether. So he has 2 little dog beds, one in the kitchen and one in the bedroom. I feel much safer with him in the house, not that he is much of a guard dog!

cocker5

I suppose the dog would very rarely come indoors..................then again I'm very rarely indoors myself during the day (my father the same and mum spends a lot of time outside too, gardening/pottering etc)................dog definitely wouldnt be short of human contact/interaction during the day.

to be honest.... walking a dog is great etc.... but dogs need company... not just excercise... they are pack animals.... i dont see the point ij havinga dog if its NEVER allowed in doors... sure then that mean just having a dog to keep you company when your outdoors... what about company for your dog when ur indoors?? :eek:

IMO dogs should be part of the family.... not outdoors 24/7 .... yes some dogs like lseeping outdoors but having the PURELY as an outdoor dog not this i dont agree with...

there nothing nicer than seeing your dog curl up infront of the fire with his fav treat on a winters night.... or in my dogs case... he tries to sit IN the fire with his fav teddy (yes he is a wuss)

sorry OP but i dont see the point of having a dog and leaving it outside 24/7.... the only time i think its ok for a dog to sleep outside etc is if the breed / dog prefer it AND if the dog will be allowed inside to interact at other times.... not outside 24/7.

getz

andreac wrote: »

If the dog is never going to be indoors then how much company/interaction will it have on a daily basis apart from walks?
Dogs should be apart of the family and i dont think a dog should be kept outdoors all the time.
Mine sleep indoors and are rarely outside unless they want to go out.

a lot of people do not realise,that dogs are pack animals and need the company of people or other dogs, most pedigree dogs are not ment to be kept outdoors in our cold winters, but if you have to,have a heated kennel

amacca

catch me if you can wrote: »

sounds like a good life for a dog.
just make sure the outbuilding has lots of hay and is warm .
can i ask how is the dog kept on the land? you wouldnt be tying him up?

only ever had to do that once with one collie we had when I was a child.[a very long time ago].....(dog was probably badly bred and had a truly vicious/sly streak in him - he bit me once)...were afraid he would bite someone etc even then it was towards the end of his stay with us and not all day every day by any means

have had many retriever type dogs since and have never ever tied them up...they roam free around the land in the garden etc during daytime usually in fact nearly always accompanying one of us...their personality seems to suit the role I am looking for...have not had problems with chasing sheep etc

/loyal/placid/intelligent/like to play etc...golden retriever or springer seems to suit ...good for the owner and the dog

piperh

Personally for me my dogs are and always will be indoor dogs however it looks like you're pretty set on the dog sleeping/living outdoors and there are dogs out there that this life would suit as long as you're prepared to offer somewher for the dog to stay that is secure, dry, draftproofed and warm.

To me it sounds like this dog will probably get a lot more human company than one belonging to somebody that worked in lets say an office and was out of the house for 10hrs a day and slept for 8hrs a night leaving 6hrs where the dog may get a couple of walks and spend a few hours curled up on the couch of an evening.

VenusPlays

OP a lot of the smaller rescues rather than pounds will accept allowing a dog to sleep outside, particularly if the dog being rehomed is used to that situation. But generally that is on a case by case basis and you might have to further explain to them your lifestyle and reasoning and where the dog will be housed.

One of the reasons that rescues ask for a dog to be kept indoor at night is because of the sheer amount of dogs surrendered to pounds for nothing more than barking at night and disturbing the neighbours. By asking for your dog to be kept indoors, they are trying to ensure that the poor dog isn't back in the same situation again a couple of months down the line.

ISDW

getz wrote: »

a lot of people do not realise,that dogs are pack animals and need the company of people or other dogs, most pedigree dogs are not ment to be kept outdoors in our cold winters, but if you have to,have a heated kennel

Why have you specified pedigree dogs? Surely it applies to all dogs?

OP, I have northern breeds, and they would be happy enough sleeping outside - I don't think that anyone here means sleeping outside without shelter when they talk about sleeping outside, they mean not in the house, but with a kennel, shed etc. However, my dogs sleep in the house, they have a dog flap so sometimes they'll take themselves off out, usually in the middle of winter when its raining and wind is howling, they seem to like sleeping outside with no protection, just curled up like proper sled dogs with their noses tucked under their tails - weird creatures:rolleyes:

amacca

cocker5 wrote: »

IMO dogs should be part of the family.... not outdoors 24/7 .... yes some dogs like lseeping outdoors but having the PURELY as an outdoor dog not this i dont agree with...

thats cool I suppose...I'm not sure I agree with you given how happy my previous dog appeared to be living under exactly those conditions (slept alone) but I do value peoples opinions

cocker5 wrote: »

there nothing nicer than seeing your dog curl up infront of the fire with his fav treat on a winters night.... or in my dogs case... he tries to sit IN the fire with his fav teddy (yes he is a wuss)

on a completely unrelated note..........................if its an open fire make sure you have a fire guard up when the dog is in front of it, my dad still tells a story about the elderly family cat they had when he was a child sleeping in front of the fire. (in his old family home)...............a cinder/ember popped out and hit the cat in the stomach...had burned into the stomach before the cat reacted...the cat died but suffered a lot beforehand (they were not sure what to do immediately- 1940s/50s)

RMD

If the dog was kept in a warm, draft free location with a decent straw bed I'd see no problem. There is certain types of dogs that life suits and some love it, find a dog that's suited to a life on the farm and there's nothing to worry about.

andreac

getz wrote: »

a lot of people do not realise,that dogs are pack animals and need the company of people or other dogs, most pedigree dogs are not ment to be kept outdoors in our cold winters, but if you have to,have a heated kennel

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not?? Mine arent kept outdoors.

My dogs are indoors nearly all of the time, they are rarely outdoors. In the evening the back door is left open if they want to go in and out but mostly they are in the house or beside me in the sitting room if im chilling out.

amacca

VenusPlays wrote: »

One of the reasons that rescues ask for a dog to be kept indoor at night is because of the sheer amount of dogs surrendered to pounds for nothing more than barking at night and disturbing the neighbours. By asking for your dog to be kept indoors, they are trying to ensure that the poor dog isn't back in the same situation again a couple of months down the line.

tks I didnt realise this was one of the reasons..I can certainly see the logic behind the requirement for that and other reasons

maybe if I explain myself more clearly as other poster has said + look into other smaller shelters etc

(the lady I spoke to brooked no compromise however)

Zapperzy

I know you said you don't want to name the rescue/s you've tried but are they council run pounds or privately run shelters? Most council run pounds, I think even the ones that have rescues working with them, have no requirements or homechecks before adopting a dog, you just pick a dog, pay the release fee, buy a licence and bobs your dog's uncle.

If you don't want to go down that route just keep trying different rescues, some are more flexable than others. Surely there are dogs in rescues that have come from a farm and are used to sleeping outdoors, some even who just do not cope with being inside a house, how they could turn you down for a dog like that would be a bit odd.

As for the outside debate, personally I'd never keep a dog outside as a rule as I'm not outside enough myself so the dog would be outside on it's own too much. But in saying that if I was outside during the day all day it would be unfair to keep the dog isolated indoors. Although my dog is currently outside belly up sunbathing on the patio and quite happy.

As for sleeping outside, during the winter you should put a thermometer that will record the min/max temperature where the dog will sleep, if it dips too low then sleeping arrangments would need to be rethought either the dog brought inside somewhere warmer or some form of heating put outside in the kennel.

cocker5

on a completely unrelated note..........................if its an open fire make sure you have a fire guard up when the dog is in front of it, my dad still tells a story about the elderly family cat they had when he was a child sleeping in front of the fire. (in his old family home)...............a cinder/ember popped out and hit the cat in the stomach...had burned into the stomach before the cat reacted...the cat died but suffered a lot beforehand (they were not sure what to do immediately- 1940s/50s)[/QUOTE]


OP... of course i have a fire guard ... otherwise he would actually sit in on top of the fire ... its as much to stop anything spitting out as it is to keep him out of the fire...thanks for the advice though...

Anway im sure you treat dogs well etc... i just feel living outside 24/7 for a dog , a pack animal, who need and thrive on company can be a very lonely existence....

for me though i just see my dog as one of the family.. and he sleeps alone too... down stairs in my kitchen etc... i just dont feel he would be happy as on outdoor dog, he is very much a family dog, and needs compnay...

Little_Focker

You know I think its slighty ironic that some rescues have this policy of only sleeping inside, when the majority are in outside kennels while they are at the rescue

I definatly believe there is a dog out there that would be suited for you OP, I have volunteered at rescues before and some have dogs that are just accustomed to being outside. I wouldnt be entirely happy with the fact that the dog wont be allowed in the house AT ALL even for a few mins during the day but in fairness you could do a lot worse to the dog. Mine are big dogs and they are outside at night, and by outside I mean just not in the house, they have a large run off the garage so they are sleeping INSIDE in the garage which is well insulated and they will soon be getting themselves a radiator for this winter . Had them inside last winter though as it was too cold but honestly they were very agitated every morning looking to get out! Back door is left open when we are here and they come and go, prefer to be out mucking about in the garden. At the moment though they are on the couches snoring beside me as I type Sometimes I will look out and they will be in their run lying down sunning themselves.

A friend of mine has a large dog and he hates to be inside, gets very agitated, bloating etc and goes and paws at the door to get out after a few mins. He will then go out and if its fine will just lie on the lawn or go into his kennel. He gets plenty of company all day every day so maybe thats why - he just seems to like a bit of "me" time to himself lol Wouldnt it be cruel to keep a dog like that inside that clearly wants to be out?

Best of luck in your search!

Cherry Blossom

OP, the old fella I had was out doors all the time, slept in the stables with the horses, but that was because he went into a blind panic if closed in the house and couldn't get out. Even with his warm sleeping arrangements in the hay the winters were extremely hard on him, he was also attacked by two dogs that got into the garden which basicly left him in the vets for 2 whole months. I would never take on a dog again that had to kept out doors tbh. Two of my neighbours have reported that they've had their dogs stolen from their garden in recent weeks nothing particularly special about either of these dogs, they were a young lab and a gsd pup so I can certainly see why rescues have this requirement. You have also said that you intend to let the dog roam freely around your property, is it securely enough enclosed that s/he won't be able to wander off your property? This is another point rescues will insist on and actually is just part and parcel of responsible dog ownership, you are actually legally required to make sure your dog doesn't stray off your property under the control of dogs act. There will always be a few dogs that are better suited to outdoor than indoor living but in the vast majority of cases imho it is much better to have dogs safely locked inside the house, especially during the night out of harms way.

Tranceypoo

OP - I'm married to a farmer so I know what you mean when you say you are always outside and always around the farm doing something, up the field 'fencing' or doing something with cattle (as it were), I would also imagine your parents are like my in-laws in that they don't think animals (including dogs and cats) belong in the house. I don't see anything wrong with you having a dog in your family, my only worry for dogs sleeping outside in general is the harsh winters we now seem to be having, I would seriously consider keeping the dog inside when we have weather like last winter, maybe get a crate for the dog to sleep in, in the kitchen, then leave the crate out in the shed or wherever during the day, that way you would avoid the 'doggy smell'. I agree with you that a life on the farm would be a lot better than life in the kennels for most dog, it's simply a matter of getting the right dog for you

I don't know whereabouts in the country you are but I highly recommend looking at the MADRA website www.madra.ie and contacting them, they are in Connemara but rehome all over the country and do not have a 'black & white' rehoming policy, ie dog sleeps outside? Sorry we can't help you, they will rehome a dog to you if they have one that would suit your lifestyle.

Best of luck

amacca

Zapperzy wrote: »

I know you said you don't want to name the rescue/s you've tried but are they council run pounds or privately run shelters? Most council run pounds, I think even the ones that have rescues working with them, have no requirements or homechecks before adopting a dog, you just pick a dog, pay the release fee, buy a licence and bobs your dog's uncle.

it actually is a council pound afaik...I'm wondering if theres more to it however for the one in particular I'm talking about (wont name it..dont believe that is fair)...

I live about 60km from the pound in question (thought I'd cast as wide a nety as possible) and I know they have a home visit before and afterwards requirement...I'm wondering if they dont want to have to travel the distance to do these visits but cant waive the visits...would cost them a lot to be travelling this distance....(have went to local ones as well btw)

amacca

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

You have also said that you intend to let the dog roam freely around your property, is it securely enough enclosed that s/he won't be able to wander off your property?

truthfully..its not enclosed at all in that way...were talking acres and acres here, wouldnt be feasible to put dog proof fencing around it and seems insane to make a small run for him when he could have the run of the place himself

now I know all dogs wont be the same but with the previous lad....his territory was the boundaries of our plot of land at the home place...I would regularly walk these (for upkeep of fences but at the start for him) and he would mark this as his territory by urinating on the ditch every couple of minutes.....he generally seemed to stick to that range.....but an eye was always kept on him

roam in the sense there was a lot of ground for him to cover...not roam in the sense he was off for hours/days on his own unsupervised on somebody elses property

I hasten to add this was not an absolute..but a general rule of thumb...there were of course times he would go through ditch etc into a neighbours field investigating a smell etc...but he didnt wander after bitches...worry sheep, go into other peoples property looking for food etc

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

This is another point rescues will insist on and actually is just part and parcel of responsible dog ownership, you are actually legally required to make sure your dog doesn't stray off your property under the control of dogs act. There will always be a few dogs that are better suited to outdoor than indoor living but in the vast majority of cases imho it is much better to have dogs safely locked inside the house, especially during the night out of harms way.

previous dog was not free to wander during the night...nor will this one be......dont want him to join a pack...start worrying sheep etc

MarthaMyDear

No, it would be my opinion that it is definitely not vital for a dog's well being to sleep indoors.

There is no harm for a dog to sleep outside, years ago there wasn't half as many dogs allowed sleep in houses as there is now.

I think a dog should be outside as much as possible, as outside is an animal's natural environment.

borderlinemeath

I don't think it's essential, but breed dependent. In saying that our dog sleeps inside, and has moved from the kitchen into the corner of the bedroom!

OP, would you consider getting 2 dogs? Maybe a couple of littermates to keep each other company if they are going to sleep outside. There's always a good few "oops litters" going free to good homes, and lots of them are collie/springer crosses.At least they would have interaction with each other when your farming day ends.

I would definately state your case more clearly when approaching rescues. Instead of just "ticking the box" saying the dog will sleep outside, write down the exact circumstances, as other posters have said, not all rescues are "black and white" and will rehome to the best home available.

amacca

borderlinemeath wrote: »

OP, would you consider getting 2 dogs? Maybe a couple of littermates to keep each other company if they are going to sleep outside. There's always a good few "oops litters" going free to good homes, and lots of them are collie/springer crosses.

I think I could swing two to keep each other company all right...is it normal to have two the same sex or a boy and a girl with this (they will all be neutered presumably so maybe this is not a big deal)...would like to get at least one male.

would be reluctant to take anything to do with a collie...would be fine if I wanted a working cattle/dog etc but collies I've had in the past dont seem to suit the lifestyle (strangely enough, you would think farms would suit them down to the ground but they seem to be a mix of very intelligent and up to mischief if they are not working from dawn to dusk [perhaps down to my inexperience when it comes to training them]).

thread is badly titled (my bad) I hope when posters are responding they realize by outside I just mean outside of the house as a previous poster has clarified..not outside in the fresh air...dogs will have a roof over their heads..warm bedding at night etc just wont be inside the house

Cherry Blossom

amacca wrote: »

I hasten to add this was not an absolute..but a general rule of thumb...there were of course times he would go through ditch etc into a neighbours field investigating a smell etc...but he didnt wander after bitches...worry sheep, go into other peoples property looking for food etc.

Getting straight to the point, personally for me the most important personality traits in a person are accountability and responsibility, if you have taken something on you see it through properly. I'm a huge advocate of responsible pet ownership. IMO no fences are unacceptable, if I didn't have fences to keep my horses in how do you think that would go down?

amacca wrote: »

previous dog was not free to wander during the night...nor will this one be......dont want him to join a pack...start worrying sheep etc

This is every bit as likely to happen during day light as at night.

Any dog found on my property will go straight to the pound, I don't care why it's there, or what it's doing there. I don't take any risk to any animals that I personally have taken responsibility for so surely its perfectly acceptable for me to expect my neighbours to do me the same courtesy. Do you see where I am coming from here? If someone has to retrieve their dog from the pound and pay the release fee every time it comes on my property they are more likely to make sure it doesn't happen. These are exactly the same reasons why rescues have certain minimum requirements in place, and honestly they are the bare minimum required to ensure people are accountable and take responsibility for a life they have taken charge of. I'm sure you understand this.

I'm far from being the only person in this frame of mind and rescues do not want dogs that have been through their doors being brought to pounds or coming back to them because they have been found wandering, this would be a complete waste of their resources re-homing in this way. It's really that simple.

carwash_2006

From a training point of view (which I imagine will be rather important so the dog can fit into farm life quickly).Don't get 2 at the same time and definitely don't under any circumstances get 2 from the same source at the same time around the same age. Personal experience here, it is very difficult to train 2 dogs at once. If you want to have 2, get one and have that one well along the training road before getting a second one.

The rescues that have a blanket policy on this have it because it is almost impossible for a rescue to spend enough time assessing a new home to determine the ones that an outdoor dog will work in and which ones it would be disastrous. They would be working from experience of more dogs being returned from outdoor homes because of barking at night or being neglected and also more dogs in general coming from those kinds of homes than from indoor homes. It often does end up meaning a dog that will be somewhat neglected and thus more likely to have behavioural problems and like I say they don't have the time to assess all the homes on this matter on an individual basis.

There are loads of pounds that won't ask you any questions like that, what general area of the country are you maybe some of us can point you in the right sort of direction?

Bizzum

I think the OP would be ill advised to get 2 dogs, particularly litter mates.

It is human interaction a dog needs. By all means let the dog sleep outside, (When we sleep, an indoor dog can't interact much with us) let him out last thing at night and let him in first thing in the morning.
Forget about a heated kennell too. There are more pampered pooches killed with kindness than die of the cold. It went down to -17*C last winter around us and i don't recall hearing of one death related to it. On a casual stroll around any town you will encounter overweight/obese dogs who's lives are being comprimised by kindness!
If the dog is let spend nearly all it's waking hours with you on the farm, has a cosy bed to lie in, is adequetaly nourished, and has his health needs taken care of (inc neutering) then he is a happy dog, and will be lucky to have an owner like you.
Best of luck.

Discodog

A rescue cannot be expected to know each applicant personally so they have to have blanket rules but most will be flexible if you make the effort to explain the situation.

The other thing that you have to take into account is a far higher percentage of neglected dogs & those that end up in rescues were kept outside rather than inside. I am pretty sure that the majority of posters here look after their dog, whether it is in or out, but this forum is hardly representative of dog owners in general.

I have three dogs & it is obvious that their relationship & interaction with me is more important to them than their interaction with each other. Dogs need human companionship. Yes two are easier in that they keep each other company but they still need humans.

Also there is the security/control aspect. People are reluctant to fence so too often the dog ends up on a chain which is totally unacceptable. Or the dog is allowed to wander.

The rescues end up with thousands of unwanted dogs because of irresponsible owners so you can hardly blame them if they don't want to repeat the situation.

Irishchick

NO. It is not. You wouldnt believe the amount of dogs we see in the clinic that have skin problems related to spending too much time in an overheated envoirnment.

Dogs are animals, not children. They have coats for a reason. A good sturdy kennel thats draught proof will be fine. He/she can than come in and out during the day.

amacca

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

IMO no fences are unacceptable, if I didn't have fences to keep my horses in how do you think that would go down?

seriously...dog proof fencing on the boundaries of a large farm...its drystock here...there are ditches/boundaries etc but it would cost in the multiple tens of thousands to make them fully dogproof...spaniel breeds are good at wriggling through things etc...I couldnt be sure it didnt cross through a ditch occasionally when I was around and perhaps on his own (with 2 or three row of barbed wire etc) but the dog was watched during the day..his absence for more than a couple of minutes would be noticed
.....if youre talking about fencing off a run for him..then maybe but it seems strange when I have so much space for him

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

This is every bit as likely to happen during day light as at night.

not true at all in my experience....we used to have a sheep herd.....they were only attacked at night...there must surely be a greater chance of a pack of dogs worrying sheep at night...for one thing humans are not as active..less opportunity to get away with it etc

amacca

carwash_2006 wrote: »

There are loads of pounds that won't ask you any questions like that, what general area of the country are you maybe some of us can point you in the right sort of direction?

tks for the advice...midlands area...have been to local towns pounds (surprisingly few dogs in) and have visited pounds in dublin

Zapperzy

Bizzum wrote: »

I think the OP would be ill advised to get 2 dogs, particularly litter mates.

It is human interaction a dog needs. By all means let the dog sleep outside, (When we sleep, an indoor dog can't interact much with us) let him out last thing at night and let him in first thing in the morning.
Forget about a heated kennell too. There are more pampered pooches killed with kindness than die of the cold. It went down to -17*C last winter around us and i don't recall hearing of one death related to it. On a casual stroll around any town you will encounter overweight/obese dogs who's lives are being comprimised by kindness!
If the dog is let spend nearly all it's waking hours with you on the farm, has a cosy bed to lie in, is adequetaly nourished, and has his health needs taken care of (inc neutering) then he is a happy dog, and will be lucky to have an owner like you.
Best of luck.

Presuming any heating is installed properly and safely and any infared lamps are at a suitable height as to not burn the dog then how is the dog going to be killed with kindness?

Maybe there wasn't any deaths that you heard of but it can't be comfortable for a dog to sleep in -17C even with a fur coat, maybe some of the northern breeds would be more suited to it, (but take into account most of these huskies aren't continually living in - conditions so probably haven't the same coat that huskies living in colder climates with year round low temperatures have), but definitely the shorter coated breeds especially those with a very thin layer of fat such as greyhounds would really feel the cold. For the sake of an hour or twos work putting up a bit of insulation and buying a red lamp (which most farmers would presumably already have one if they have lambs and most sheds/barns already have electricity in them) so that the dog is more comfortable for the winter.

I agree dogs should not be overfed to the point of barely being able to walk, I think even over in the uk there has been people prosecuted for continually allowing their pet to be morbidly obese, but just ensuring a dog is more comfortable should we get the same winter again is not killing a dog with kindness.

Discodog

Irishchick wrote: »

NO. It is not. You wouldnt believe the amount of dogs we see in the clinic that have skin problems related to spending too much time in an overheated envoirnment.

Dogs are animals, not children. They have coats for a reason. A good sturdy kennel thats draught proof will be fine. He/she can than come in and out during the day.

As someone in the Veterinary profession you know that this cannot be true because it all depends on the breed of dog, the type of coat, the quality of the kennel & the ambient temperature.

I looked after a neighbours dog during a cold spell this winter. It is a Collie that sleeps in a good kennel in an open barn. Because it was so cold I attached a curtain to act as a door. Out of interest I put a recording thermometer in the kennel & the temperature dropped to -8 ! Now that is cold for a Collie but it would of been agony for a small shorthair like a JRT.

Most houses will have unheated hallways, kitchens etc. There is no reason for a dog to get too hot unless it has an exceptional coat. Dogs may be animals but we have changed them & many are simply not equipped to be out in all weathers.

Cherry Blossom

amacca wrote: »

seriously...dog proof fencing on the boundaries of a large farm...its drystock here...there are ditches/boundaries etc but it would cost in the multiple tens of thousands to make them fully dogproof...

I'm not suggesting that at all, you have given the impression that you intend to give the dog free run of the whole world to do what it likes. If the dog is going to out and about around the farm in your company that is fine, but it shouldn't be let roam around unaccompanied which is the impression I have gotten from your post. It also appears that you are not going to have any sort of enclosed area to keep the dog in and I have got the impression that it will be left to its own devices to tag along with whomever it pleases or wander off elsewhere going about its own business. What is wrong with securing the garden so the dog can be kept there safely without supervision . You claim it is silly to do this when you have so much space which makes no sense to me, and I have given some of the reasons why it is actually down right irresponsible to let a dog have free run of the whole world. I'd rather have a dog confined to a decent sized space all day than have one shot because it doesn't know the difference between your field and your neighbours. Apologies if I have picked this up all wrong but if I have then it's easy to see how this rescue you have been in contact with has as well.

Bizzum

Zapperzy wrote: »

Presuming any heating is installed properly and safely and any infared lamps are at a suitable height as to not burn the dog then how is the dog going to be killed with kindness?

Maybe there wasn't any deaths that you heard of but it can't be comfortable for a dog to sleep in -17C even with a fur coat, maybe some of the northern breeds would be more suited to it, (but take into account most of these huskies aren't continually living in - conditions so probably haven't the same coat that huskies living in colder climates with year round low temperatures have), but definitely the shorter coated breeds especially those with a very thin layer of fat such as greyhounds would really feel the cold. For the sake of an hour or twos work putting up a bit of insulation and buying a red lamp (which most farmers would presumably already have one if they have lambs and most sheds/barns already have electricity in them) so that the dog is more comfortable for the winter.
.

A healthy dog (perhaps excluding greyhounds or the like-which were at no time mentioned in this thread) has no more requirement for an IR lamp than a Bullock.
Should we not put all our animals under IR lamps?
I wouldn't like to be paying the ESB bill!

Discodog

Bizzum wrote: »

It went down to -17*C last winter around us and i don't recall hearing of one death related to it.

I did. Even our poor welfare laws will soon make it illegal to keep a Greyhound at lower than 10 C. A dog in a kennel cannot move to keep warm so it has to shiver to generate heat. There are lots of things that dogs can survive but it doesn't mean that they should have to. If you were shut out at -17 you would probably survive. Just because the dog is alive in the morning is doesn't mean that it didn't suffer.

For every 1 dog that dies from kindness there will be 1000 that die from neglect.

Shanao

Irishchick wrote: »

NO. It is not. You wouldnt believe the amount of dogs we see in the clinic that have skin problems related to spending too much time in an overheated envoirnment.

Dogs are animals, not children. They have coats for a reason. A good sturdy kennel thats draught proof will be fine. He/she can than come in and out during the day.

This is completely breed specific, you couldn't expect a staffie or greyhound to endure the same cold a spitz-type would. The northern breeds will do alright, but even then, their coats have had to adapt to our warmer climate as is (not saying that Ireland is all that warm of course) so wont be as thick as their snow-dwelling counterparts. And the amount of dogs that got frostbite on their paw pads last winter was unreal. I wasn't going sitting out in when I was well-wrapped up, and I wouldn't expect my dogs to either.


Both of my dogs have thick doublecoats but I wouldn't expect them to sleep outdoors. Dogs all over the country are being stolen every single day, I'm not risking mine being amongst them. They are inside at night, so I know exactly where they are; doubtful they could get over the walls around our garden anyway, but I'm not letting anything up to chance. And I hate hearing all the other dogs in our estate barking all night, I'm not going to add my two to that (though they dont bark, I dont want them starting to either).
I can see why rescues and pounds dont want dogs to go to a home where they will be outside all night, there are too many risks.

amacca

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that at all, you have given the impression that you intend to give the dog free run of the whole world to do what it likes. If the dog is going to out and about around the farm in your company that is fine, but it shouldn't be let roam around unaccompanied which is the impression I have gotten from your post.

from a previous post (#30) in this thread

"now I know all dogs wont be the same but with the previous lad....his territory was the boundaries of our plot of land at the home place...I would regularly walk these (for upkeep of fences but at the start for him) and he would mark this as his territory by urinating on the ditch every couple of minutes.....he generally seemed to stick to that range.....but an eye was always kept on him

roam in the sense there was a lot of ground for him to cover...not roam in the sense he was off for hours/days on his own unsupervised on somebody elses property"

if I gave the impression he would be let run around without me being aware of it for long periods I didnt mean to but I did clarify in subsequent posts like the above

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

It also appears that you are not going to have any sort of enclosed area to keep the dog in and I have got the impression that it will be left to its own devices to tag along with whomever it pleases or wander off elsewhere going about its own business. What is wrong with securing the garden so the dog can be kept there safely without supervision . You claim it is silly to do this when you have so much space which makes no sense to me,

true...i've not had an enclosed outside area for any dog ive had during the daytime as there has not seemed to be any need for it......I ahve the place to myself more or less....nearest neighbours house a good long way up the road...plenty of my own property for the dog to enjoy himself on

previous dog was light on supervision believe it or not...he hung around the yard/house religiously and followed us around the place etc

that didnt stop us keeping an eye on him though...dog wont be free to do what he likes..im not that sort of person and Im sorry if I gave that impression


(All dogs I've had have been enclosed at night with a roof over their heads /bedding /water etc however)

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

and I have given some of the reasons why it is actually down right irresponsible to let a dog have free run of the whole world. I'd rather have a dog confined to a decent sized space all day than have one shot because it doesn't know the difference between your field and your neighbours. Apologies if I have picked this up all wrong but if I have then it's easy to see how this rescue you have been in contact with has as well.

and your reasons are correct but if you read my other posts I think its fair to say I did not give the impression the dog would have "free run of the whole world" and if I did I apologize

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Apologies if I have picked this up all wrong but if I have then it's easy to see how this rescue you have been in contact with has as well.

thats not really fair.....the question on their form was something along the lines of

will the dog sleep indoors at night or outdoors in a kennel/outbuilding


I answered truthfully (circled the option actually) that the dog would sleep outside of the house in an outbuilding/kennel ...so its not a case that my answer was in anyway unclear or that I am an especially confusing person to deal with (although ill freely admit I'm not perfect:))

Bizzum

Discodog wrote: »

I did. Even our poor welfare laws will soon make it illegal to keep a Greyhound at lower than 10 C. A dog in a kennel cannot move to keep warm so it has to shiver to generate heat. There are lots of things that dogs can survive but it doesn't mean that they should have to. If you were shut out at -17 you would probably survive. Just because the dog is alive in the morning is doesn't mean that it didn't suffer.

For every 1 dog that dies from kindness there will be 1000 that die from neglect.

Big big difference between neglect and cold.
I never mentioned neglect. So I will stand over what I said.
Why do greyhounds keep coming into this?

Discodog

Bizzum wrote: »

A healthy dog (perhaps excluding greyhounds or the like-which were at no time mentioned in this thread) has no more requirement for an IR lamp than a Bullock.
Should we not put all our animals under IR lamps?
I wouldn't like to be paying the ESB bill!

A heatpad uses 13 watts - so little you wouldn't be able to detect it on an ESB bill.

Shanao

Bizzum wrote: »

Big big difference between neglect and cold.
I never mentioned neglect. So I will stand over what I said.
Why do greyhounds keep coming into this?

Greyhounds are mentioned because of their single coat, a coat type shared with quite a few breeds. I took in a dobermann six days before last Christmas, she had been left out in the snow with a wooden kennel and straw. She had frostbite on her pawpads from being outside the whole time. So as far as i can see, these dogs outside in the cold = neglect. Boxers, staffies, JRTs, Greys, beagles, dobies, rotts, most hound breeds, and nearly all toy breeds, should not be left out in the cold.

amacca

Discodog wrote: »

A heatpad uses 13 watts - so little you wouldn't be able to detect it on an ESB bill.

what are these?......sort of like an electric blanket for dogs?.....might be interested for cold winters for mine (if I get him)...13 watts is pretty low alright....any of the old bulbs only gave decent light if they were above 100w...so 13w would be cheap to run