Simplest combo box for elderly ?

Zimmerframe

Have an ET9000 and a Dreambox myself and usually looking for something complicated, but this time looking for the simplest combi box for elderly parents, it must have a scart output.
No need for teletext or epg's or recording, preferably no need to use menus at all.
In an ideal world a box that pressing remote buttons 1 to 20 brings up the channels.

eg

RTE 1 = 1
Net 2 = 2
......
BBC 1 =7
BBC 2 =8

etc etc

A once off, setting up a favorite list etc won't be a problem, but after that would like it to just "work", ideally the scart will auto switch the tv and they just press 1, 2, 3 etc etc.
Does anyone know, which box would suit best.

MrSneeg

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Have an ET9000 and a Dreambox myself and usually looking for something complicated, but this time looking for the simplest combi box for elderly parents, it must have a scart output.
No need for teletext or epg's or recording, preferably no need to use menus at all.
In an ideal world a box that pressing remote buttons 1 to 20 brings up the channels.

eg

RTE 1 = 1
Net 2 = 2
......
BBC 1 =7
BBC 2 =8

etc etc

A once off, setting up a favorite list etc won't be a problem, but after that would like it to just "work", ideally the scart will auto switch the tv and they just press 1, 2, 3 etc etc.
Does anyone know, which box would suit best.

none that I know of as most boxes start at 101 etc all 3 digit channel no's,

I find if you explain it a few times nicely & write down the remote sequences as simply as possible, it makes it easier,

also delete as many unwanted channels as you can,

I sympathise with your situation as this going to be a problem for a lot of people soon,

Zimmerframe

MrSneeg wrote: »

none that I know of as most boxes start at 101 etc all 3 digit channel no's,

I sympathise with your situation as this going to be a problem for a lot of people soon,

That's what I thought m8, been down that route before with the 3 digit channel numbers, wasn't pretty.

I suppose I could get a remote like a Pronto, which would translate the single button press into the 3 digit code, the remote will cost more than the receiver.

STB

MrSneeg wrote: »

none that I know of as most boxes start at 101 etc all 3 digit channel no's,

I find if you explain it a few times nicely & write down the remote sequences as simply as possible, it makes it easier,

also delete as many unwanted channels as you can,

I sympathise with your situation as this going to be a problem for a lot of people soon,

What!! Sorry buddy but you are giving a bum steer.

No Combo boxes start at 101 or three digits! Combo boxes allow for the channels to be stuck in any order you want from 1 upwards. And you can either press the number of the channel or use the + or - buttons which is what this chap wants. You are confusing the use of Freeview HD box in Ireland and the havoc it plays with LCN. This is nothing to do with what the OP has asked.

To the OP, buy the Ferguson 120 combo - big thread below. €99. Plus you can get a five button control for €15 if thats going to be a problem.

Zimmerframe

STB wrote: »

What!! Sorry buddy but you are giving a bum steer.

No Combo boxes start at 101 or three digits! Combo boxes allow for the channels to be stuck in any order you want from 1 upwards. And you can either press the number of the channel or use the + or - buttons which is what this chap wants. You are confusing the use of Freeview HD box in Ireland and the havoc it plays with LCN. This is nothing to do with what the OP has asked.

To the OP, buy the Ferguson 120 combo - big thread below. €99. Plus you can get a five button control for €15 if thats going to be a problem.

Cheers m8, that sounds ideal
Thanks

Tony

Just bear in mind that the ferguson does not support the digital text that RTE uses on Saorview digital terrestrial , this could have a bearing on sub titles in the future which would be a factor to consider for anyone with hearing difficulty.

watty

Elderly people are not stupid. Just old.

To most people the BBC Interactive and no need to re-scan channels of the "Freesat HD" boxes is a minimum if not using Sky or UPC.

Currently there is no properly compatible "combo" box. If you don't want to record, the best solution at the minute is a "Freesat HD" box and a TV that does MHEG5 + DTT + MPEG4 (Ideally Saorview approved).

Later this year Saorsat + Freesat HD on one box may be an option.

I know no old people with "combo" boxes. I know plenty that would not give up the BBC Interactive.


If the Ferguson Combo is such a good idea why is there such a big thread?

darth_maul

watty wrote: »

If the Ferguson Combo is such a good idea why is there such a big thread?

The Ferguson thread is so large because there is a lot of interest in a cheap combo box, we had these boxes in the first week they came out and obviously there was some teething problems which have now been ironed out, I find it a great little box and have them installed in 3 elderly homes and they have worked out great, the 2 box solution or even a freesat box and a saorview TV can be very awkward for an elderly person as the switching between outputs and multiple remotes needs to be done.

now as to losing the bbc interactive features, elderly people aren't going to use anything other than the red button screens which on a combo box can be tuned in as seperate channels which actually works out handier for them.

Tony

A couple of sweeping generalisations there Watty. As long as people young or old are aware of what they are buying and can make an informed choice then its up to them to decide . I would have thought a big thread would indicate a big interest , does it follow that a small thread means a better idea?

watty wrote: »

I know no old people with "combo" boxes. I know plenty that would not give up the BBC Interactive.
If the Ferguson Combo is such a good idea why is there such a big thread?

Zimmerframe

Tony wrote: »

A couple of sweeping generalisations there Watty.

Absolutely

The Ferguson sounds ideal, will know next week.

Johnboy1951

There are a lot of ageist remarks and references being thrown about on boards of late ..... I am not saying there is anything intentional, but it sure reads very odd.

Who decides who is old, elderly or just plain too stupid to use technology?
What has age really got to do with it?

There are other ways to describe someone who is not comfortable with modern technology, and I encourage those posting to use them rather than lump all people (by implication) who are in advanced years into that category.

Would this be acceptable if applied to other segments of society? .... would there be a reaction if a poster wanted something simple for women? I suspect so ..... /rant

Back on topic ....

Watty wrote:

Elderly people are not stupid. Just old.

True

To most people the BBC Interactive and no need to re-scan channels of the "Freesat HD" boxes is a minimum if not using Sky or UPC.

I have used Sky for many many years, and never used the interactive service ..... but I suppose the above might be true, I couldn't judge.

Currently there is no properly compatible "combo" box. If you don't want to record, the best solution at the minute is a "Freesat HD" box and a TV that does MHEG5 + DTT + MPEG4 (Ideally Saorview approved).

It may be the best solution .... but economics determine otherwise for me.
I want, after dumping Sky, the best display on my present TVs as possible, with the minimum of outlay. I want access to Irish TV as well as (edit: replace 'freesat') "Free to View" satellite channels.
The above solution does not fulfil all those requirements.
I doubt I am alone in this.
For the present the Ariva 120 stb does.

Later this year Saorsat + Freesat HD on one box may be an option.

It may be ..... but as a lot of people already have suitable aerials they will not need Saorsat.
A combo box with Saorview and Freesat HD would suit them better.

I know no old people with "combo" boxes. I know plenty that would not give up the BBC Interactive.

What is 'old' in this context? 50? 60? 70? 80? more?
Who takes it upon themselves to determine that after some particular age a person is too old to understand/use modern technology?

If the Ferguson Combo is such a good idea why is there such a big thread?

I would suggest because the facilities & functions of the box are what a lot of people want - a combo of (edit: replace Freesat) Free to view Satellite and Irish DTT channels.
.... or maybe because a lot of 'old' people are interested

I suggest it is likely that a large thread will also develop when the first, reasonably priced, stb, which does Saorsat and Freesat is released.

regards.

steveq

Just a point about Saorview and Freesat HD combo boxes.

Watty states that there isn't such a box available and to the best of my knowledge that is absolutely correct.

There are however many combo boxes that can receive Saorview and Free-to-View Satellite channels. When the satellite channels change (and they do quite regularly) the box would have to be retuned. That would upset the channel numbers, etc. which can be confusing / frustrating and requires relearning.

True "Freesat" boxes automatically pick up channel changes and new channels maintaining channel numbering and makes viewing life simple.

There are a couple of TV manufacturers that make TV and HDD recorders that do receive both Freeview HD and Freesat HD but they are quite expensive.
Freeview HD is generally compatible with Saorview.

Be careful about confusing free to view satellite and "Freesat". There are differences and these will impact any less technically minded folk.

Zimmerframe

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

There are a lot of ageist remarks and references being thrown about on boards of late ..... I am not saying there is anything intentional, but it sure reads very odd.

Who decides who is old, elderly or just plain too stupid to use technology?
What has age really got to do with it?

Not sure what you are trying to say, or who your post is directed at, as I don't see any ageist remarks on this thread.

My elderly (non stupid) parents want a simple to use combi box. They want this, not because they are intellectually incapable of using high tech gear, but because they don't want to.
For similar reasons they prefer a basic Nokia phone to a Samsung Galaxy.
These are their choices not mine.
My only desire is to give them what they want.

Most people I know prefer "simple to use" equipment apart from people myself included, who enjoy "playing with" the hardware as much as actually using it.

I don't find the word "elderly" offensive, do you ?

The advice I require has been provided on thread and although not perfect the Ferguson Ariva seems to fit the bill best until something more suitable comes along.

NewHillel

steveq wrote: »

When the satellite channels change (and they do quite regularly) the box would have to be retuned. That would upset the channel numbers, etc. which can be confusing / frustrating and requires relearning.

They don't change that often. When they do, there is no reasoning why the chanel numbers on the EPG cannot be kept. The advantages of a Combo Box will greatly outweigh this (small) inconvenience, for many people.

Johnboy1951

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Not sure what you are trying to say, or who your post is directed at, as I don't see any ageist remarks on this thread.

This is not the only thread in which I consider there were some ageist remarks.

I also said they were likely not deliberate.

My elderly (non stupid) parents want a simple to use combi box. They want this, not because they are intellectually incapable of using high tech gear, but because they don't want to.

Exactly my point ..... so why mention their advanced years in the thread title?

Simplest combo box for elderly ?

I don't find the word "elderly" offensive, do you ?

There are lots of words that are not of themselves offensive .... but I surely would be offended by the implication in the title of this thread that it was because of age that a simple to use device was required. I would have similar thoughts about any group being mentioned like this ---- elderly, disabled, female, gay or any other group of society.

I may be an elderly disabled gay female .... but none of those have a bearing on my wish for a simple-to-operate stb.

I hope that explains my thoughts on this.

regards.

Zimmerframe

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I hope that explains my thoughts on this.

It explains your thoughts, but the issues are in your head not in this thread.

My parents are elderly, I will mention it in the thread if I feel like.
They are close to 80 years of age, that is elderly.
When I am 80, I too will be elderly.
This thread is about a satellite/saorview receiver for my elderly parents who want a simple to use receiver. If you feel some discrimination to the elderly on boards.ie, then post it in the relevant ageist threads, this isn't one of them.
If you have information on a receiver more suitable than the Ferguson Ariva, for my parents needs, then post it here.

STB

This elderly debate, look it really is quite simple in my opinion. I am not ageist in any way (I have seen a lot first hand and dont do sweeping generalisations, well, most of the time anyhow).


History of how TV is delivered
The whole history of how TV is delivered in Ireland to peoples homes and the ineptitude of previous Governments in moving with the times has unfortunately come back to bite us in the ass as Digital Switch on and Analogue Switch off approaches and espcially for those who seek a viable alternative to pay TV.

The vast majority of people in Ireland have always sought a mixture of UK stations and Irish Stations. At one stage the only show in town for this was cable television.

The majority of people, now in their late years have struggled with the digital age, not because they are stupid but because they have become accustomed to simple TV delivery and not just terrestrialy. Up until quite recently quite a lot of people had cable TV in their homes (especially large population bases like Dublin). This was delivered quite simply by one cable going to the television set and all the tuning was done by the TV. Nothing much changed in this delivery over the course of 25/30 years. Only recently this analogue delivery has been updated with a digital box junctioning this set up.

In the 90s Sky came on stream and many people struggled with its menus but many have now have became slaves to the Sky menu system and remote control and can use nothing else.

Two different sets of people with different experiences. I havent even touched on the third set - the terrestrial 25% that were always in 3/4 channel land.

Digital Functionality
The remote control on FTA satellite boxes (including combo boxes) have far too many buttons. Even I struggle between remotes and find frustration with them and I'm in my 30s. Although friends have had innovative ways of circumventing this (taping over all but the basic buttons) this can be simplified by buying a five button remote with basic commands.

In my experiences people from the cable TV era struggle with epg buttons and time shift etc and want a simple P+ and - buttons or press numbers scenario. They want to watch programs not play with the functionality of the box.

Final point and it is an important one. Even in this age of Sky, UPC, FTA sat and Terrestrial etc we are still watching in the main the same stations that we always did.

It hasnt changed in years across all the above mentioned platforms. It isnt something that UPC and Sky want to see in the general domain.

% of TV stations share in 2010 - this is how advertisers choose their audiences

1 RTÉ One Raidió Teilifís Éireann 23.7 FTA
2 TV3 Ireland TV3 Group 12.3 FTA
3 RTÉ Two Raidió Teilifís Éireann 9.65 FTA
4 BBC One Northern Ireland BBC 5.29 FTA
5 UTV UTV Media 4.53 FTA
6 Channel 4 NI Channel 4 3.74 FTA
7 BBC Two Northern Ireland BBC 3.06 FTA
8 TG4 Teilifís na Gaeilge 2.67 FTA
9 Sky1 Sky Ireland 1.92
10 E4 Channel 4 1.19 FTA

Unfortunately the travesty has been that not enough people realise that they have been paying foreign companies for something that isnt actually necessary as the stations are free with cheap combo boxes. For many OAPs and people on low income the low cost combo box provides them with this access for very little outlay and no further monthly bills.
So whilst what Watty says about the odd bit of re-tuning is true, I dont believe it is necessarily a massive hurdle. Likewise MHEG5 Interactivity and text deliverability is not a huge necessity for the majority of people and certainly this shouldnt be discussed in the same breath as simple functionality or as a requirement for the elderly. I have come around to the thinking that cost/usability vs functionality/convenience are 2 different things and are things that people are willing to sacrifice. Look there never will be a combo Freesat/Saorview BOX - the UK wont be making one for Ireland, Freesat software is proprietary and incompatible with Saorview. Believe it or not, outside technical forums, most people just want to watch TV, preferably legaly and for free!

Sorry for the lengthy response, I feel it is important that the word gets out that there is a simple no bells and whistles alternative to pay TV. Perhaps it is time for Conor Pope or the like to write such an article.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Perhaps it is time for Conor Pope or the like to write such an article.

This is what Conor once wrote about free satellite services

There is, of course the option of turning your back on the big providers and getting your TV signals without paying a monthly subscription at all. Freeview satellite services are legally available throughout the country at a fraction of the cost charged by Sky and UPC. A satellite dish giving you access to more than 200 channels – many of which are actually worth watching – can be bought in Maplin for around €120. Tesco also sells satellite kits and they are to be found on occasion in Lidl for even less than €120. You simply attach the dish to your house, feed the cable from the dish into your house and connect it to your TV and bingo – lifetime access to more than 200 channels for less than a third of the cost of a high-end Sky subscription for one year.

If that sounds too much like hard work – and it probably does – there is an easier way to get low-cost satellite television. There are dozens of satellite companies who will do it for you. Companies such as satellite.ie offer installations for a one-off fee of €289 and they charge less than €100 if you already have a working Sky dish in place.

The service gives access to over 130 stations, including all the BBC channels, ITV, Film Four, a range of children’s channels, multiple news channels (including Sky News and CNN) and a host of other channels, many of which are probably of marginal interest, unless your German is particularly fluent.

The Irish channels are unavailable via free-to-air satellite because of problems as they are contracted to Sky TV, although they can be accessed for free via a normal TV aerial.

If you go down this route, there is no customer support and no guarantee of service, so if the BBC or ITV decide to pull their free-to-air satellite service, those with dishes might be left with no option but to go back to the traditional providers.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/pricewatch/2009/0323/1224243263916.html

Johnboy1951

STB wrote:

This elderly debate, look it really is quite simple in my opinion. I am not ageist in any way (I have seen a lot first hand and dont do sweeping generalisations, well, most of the time anyhow).

From a user perspective -- using remote controls to 'work' the devices, there is no extra complication that I see. For example my old/aged CRT TV ( a Sharp) has a remote with 46 buttons. It is analogue only of course and the vast majority of those buttons were little used.

The Sky remote has some 33 buttons

The Ariva 120 combo box has some 44 buttons ... for both SAT and terrestrial.

Seems to me that the combo box is much simpler and less confusing than the combination of the TV & Sky remotes.

Unfortunately the travesty has been that not enough people realise that they have been paying foreign companies for something that isnt actually necessary as the stations are free with cheap combo boxes. For many OAPs and people on low income the low cost combo box provides them with this access for very little outlay and no further monthly bills.

The only reason I kept Sky for so long was to ensure I had good Irish TV reception. Yes for some time, while others wanted Sky sport that had an influence too. But my only requirement, in addition to free to view channels was quality of display .... and convenience.

From my perspective, I have as good, maybe better, set up now that I have cancelled Sky and have the Ariva combo box.
The only negative we have found in this household, is the number of channels with the same content.
Without familiarity with the UK regional differences and so on, the number of similar channels can be confusing.

With a little time 'playing' with the system, no doubt a suitable set up will be achieved ..... to give us what we want, in the simplest manner (for us), for accessing the desired TV programmes.

My apologies to the OP for taking the thread off topic, but I do feel a reaction when people's age appears to be associated with technophobia. After all it was that generation that developed the PC, mobile phones, internet etc etc on which we all depend today, in one form or another.

Bottom line - for this household - is that the Ariva is the best device for us ..... given that price and convenience are the two primary concerns after ensuring it can deliver the TV channels we require.
It may be that in 12 months time a better option will present itself, with more convenience and options. If so it can be considered then. Until that time we can make use of the Ariva ... and it costs less than half of the basic Sky subscription for that 12 months, and nothing thereafter if it continues to fulfil our requirements.

I am inclined to the opinion that people who have just continued with what they have for years -- maybe Sky plus analogue Irish TV -- will do a re-think with the change to DTT, and a lot more will consider dropping their Sky subscription for free to view sat plus DTT.
A Saorview approved device like the Ariva would help greatly in that regard, I believe.

I hope such devices are available before 'crunch time'.

regards

Zimmerframe

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

My apologies to the OP for taking the thread off topic, but I do feel a reaction when people's age appears to be associated with technophobia.

No worries m8.

watty

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

T

I may be an elderly disabled gay female .... but none of those have a bearing on my wish for a simple-to-operate stb.

I hope that explains my thoughts on this.

regards.

Or black, Jewish, communist, elderly, disabled, gay female.

The Ferguson Combo box may be fine for lots of people. However many people have not compared it with "properly compatible" solutions and given that there are so few Irish channels, the difficulty of two boxes or TV + box is often overstated. So my comment on it was deliberately sweeping as it has no shortage of Fans.

It's got nothing to do with age. Some teenagers would rather have a combo box and some Octogenarians don't mind having 4 remote controls.

Two fully compatible systems with two remotes may actually in long run be easier for some technophobic people. Especially "Freesat HD" vs generic FTA satellite receivers. I sell nothing and also have plenty of not just Technophobic friends but some are not even reliable using Technology they don't fear. OTH I have Technophillic friends that should be banned from buying gadgets.

Johnboy1951

OTH I have Technophillic friends that should be banned from buying gadgets.

ah but they keep the world going 'round

Antenna

watty wrote: »

Two fully compatible systems with two remotes may actually in long run be easier for some technophobic people.

A lot of people (especially elderly people) have TVs with just ONE SCART (and no HDMI or any other non-RF input). So there is extra hassle for them with using a SCART switcher box for two STBs

On other TVs it is awkward to switch between SCARTs or between TV's own tuner and SCART (and back again), so flicking over to see what is on BBC (on FTA Sat box) during an ad break on RTE is a pain for people to do.

Its a pity that ALL TV manufacturers did not allow channel preset numbers be assigned to SCARTS (or other non-RF inputs) if desired.

So a viewer could for example have their channels set up as follows:
1-4: RTE1,2,TV3,TG4
5: SCART 1 (or HDMI)
6: SCART 2 (or HDMI)

MrSneeg

NewHillel wrote: »

They don't change that often. When they do, there is no reasoning why the chanel numbers on the EPG cannot be kept. The advantages of a Combo Box will greatly outweigh this (small) inconvenience, for many people.

and a nightmare for many more people

Tony

As long as people are aware of this before they buy they can make an informed decision as to whether its for them or not.

MrSneeg wrote: »

and a nightmare for many more people

watty

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

ah but they keep the world going 'round

Not Apple:
Never pays out dividends
Over $76 Billion sucked out of circulation.
Most of production cost subcontracted to 2nd rate Chinese factories.
Overpriced. Small percentage of overall phone market (including Dumb phones) yet over 70% of Phone maker profits (including dumb phones).

One gadget maker that's bad for world Economy

Johnboy1951

watty wrote: »

Not Apple:
Never pays out dividends
Over $76 Billion sucked out of circulation.
Most of production cost subcontracted to 2nd rate Chinese factories.
Overpriced. Small percentage of overall phone market (including Dumb phones) yet over 70% of Phone maker profits (including dumb phones).

One gadget maker that's bad for world Economy

I was referring to your

I have Technophillic friends that should be banned from buying gadgets

not the producers of products

NewHillel

MrSneeg wrote: »

and a nightmare for many more people

Evidence?

MrSneeg

evidence.

most people in the 'real world' use a service provider for multiple tv channel reception,

this is because most people like to watch tv at the press of a button, not piss about scouring the internet for tp frequencies and then struggling to update their receivers.

do you have any evidence for any of your many arrogant assumptions ?

Tony

I'd say thats another assumption too .

MrSneeg wrote: »

most people in the 'real world' use a service provider for multiple tv channel reception,

MrSneeg

bskyb 10 milliion plus subscribers

upc 850,000 subscribers

fact not assumption.