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Irelands greatest ever sportsman -Sean Kelly

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13

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    #62
    happytramp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭happytramp


    goldencleric wrote: »
    Of course its a bloody sport, cop-on happy tramp!

    Seriously? Sorry lads, I honestly thought it was a game.


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    #63
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    happytramp wrote: »
    Yeah right! Apparently you've never heard of someone called Roy Keane.....


    was he the guy that walked out on his country on the eve of a world cup because the grass was'nt green enough or something like that.
    to be a country's greatest sportsman one must actually play. ;)


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    #64
    ajayz
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭ajayz


    happytramp wrote: »
    Seriously? Sorry lads, I honestly thought it was a game.
    Definition of a sport: Something you change your shoes to take part in :)


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    #65
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,873 ✭✭✭Russman


    happytramp wrote: »
    Is Kelly? With Merckx, Coppi, Anquetil and Hinault already on that list, space is at a premium.

    In fairness, he's arguably next in line after those 4 - then again, arguably is the whole point of this thread I guess ! :D


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    #66
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    It's impossible to compare across eras and across sports, and while Kelly definitely has a very strong claim to be the greatest Irish sportsperson, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mr William James McBride.

    Willy John McBride only started playing rugby at 17, won over 60 caps for Ireland (this was before World Cups and Autumn International Series), 17 Lions Caps and was skipper of the unbeaten 1974 Lions Team that went to South Africa.

    He was also famous for his love of ice-cream;)


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    #67
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    I'm with happy tramp, snooker, and darts, aren't sports. They're just activities for unfit and lazy people.


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    #68
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I'm with happy tramp, snooker, and darts, aren't sports. They're just activities for unfit and lazy people.

    Remember when they could drink during the games.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHnBppccI0o


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    #69
    Undercover Elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Undercover Elephant


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I'm with happy tramp, snooker, and darts, aren't sports. They're just activities for unfit and lazy people.
    Where does golf fit in? :)


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    #70
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Undercover Elephant wrote: »
    Where does golf fit in? :)

    Usually size 40+ trousers ;)


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    #71
    simonmln
    Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭simonmln


    Kevin O Brien destroying England almost on his own.....

    But its gotta be BOD really!


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    #72
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Undercover Elephant wrote: »
    Where does golf fit in? :)

    That's said to be a good walk ruined isn't it ?


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    #73
    funnights74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭funnights74


    So how do we define what is a sport, darts, snooker, golf, give me a break, jaysus the sight of darren clarke puffin away on a cigar as he played, and then goin on a week long bender after winning the open recently is hardly good for the image of the game.
    At the very least the heart rate has to go above 100 bpm.


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    #74
    funnights74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭funnights74


    Jawgap wrote: »
    It's impossible to compare across eras and across sports, and while Kelly definitely has a very strong claim to be the greatest Irish sportsperson, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mr William James McBride.

    Willy John McBride only started playing rugby at 17, won over 60 caps for Ireland (this was before World Cups and Autumn International Series), 17 Lions Caps and was skipper of the unbeaten 1974 Lions Team that went to South Africa.

    He was also famous for his love of ice-cream;)
    Oh is that the guy who supported the pro Apartheid fascist regime by captaining that Lions tour.:mad:
    He should just wear a swastika and be done with it.


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    #75
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    funnights74 wrote: »
    So how do we define what is a sport, darts, snooker, golf, give me a break, jaysus the sight of darren clarke puffin away on a cigar as he played, and then goin on a week long bender after winning the open recently is hardly good for the image of the game.
    At the very least the heart rate has to go above 100 bpm.

    What about shooting?


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    #76
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    funnights74 wrote: »
    Oh is that the guy who supported the pro Apartheid fascist regime by captaining that Lions tour.:mad:
    He should just wear a swastika and be done with it.

    Get outta here and away to the politics forum with ya, there's no place for that nonsense here. IMO of course.

    Anyway, the real crimes against humanity are worn out on the golf courses all over the world. That's a much bigger issue than something that happened back in the day.


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    #77
    funnights74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭funnights74


    So Gerry Adams and Martin MacGuinness enter into the debate, lol


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    #78
    funnights74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭funnights74


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Get outta here and away to the politics forum with ya, there's no place for that nonsense here. IMO of course.

    Anyway, the real crimes against humanity are worn out on the golf courses all over the world. That's a much bigger issue than something that happened back in the day.

    What nonsense would that be? Just because i am stating a historical fact to support my point and you try to dismiss it like it's irrelevant. But as you say IMO.
    I agree with ya on the Golf clothes thing though, horrendous.


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    #79
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    funnights74 wrote: »
    What nonsense would that be? Just because i am stating a historical fact to support my point and you try to dismiss it like it's irrelevant.
    McBride is not the only one who took an ill-advised trip to South Africa.


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    #80
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭Junior


    funnights74 wrote: »
    Oh is that the guy who supported the pro Apartheid fascist regime by captaining that Lions tour.:mad:
    He should just wear a swastika and be done with it.


    w00t Godwin's Law has been invoked - surely that's the end of this ?


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    #81
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    McBride is not the only one who took an ill-advised trip to South Africa.

    Pat McQuaid and some other bloke
    (can't quite remember his name, wonder what happened to him ;))


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    #82
    Coronal
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭Coronal


    robinph wrote: »
    What about shooting?
    The heart rate goes waaay up in that, especially after two hours outside on a hot day wearing full kit. A lot more in a final.


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    #83
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    I like kelly and his exploits on the bike were truly amazing but we must not forget that along with many other great cyclist he did test positive on more than one occasion for drugs.


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    #84
    Undercover Elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Undercover Elephant


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    I like kelly and his exploits on the bike were truly amazing but we must not forget that along with many other great cyclist he did test positive on more than one occasion for drugs.
    To be fair, one of those positive tests was not his fault. ;)


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    #85
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    funnights74 wrote: »
    Oh is that the guy who supported the pro Apartheid fascist regime by captaining that Lions tour.:mad:
    He should just wear a swastika and be done with it.

    A few years ago I did a little bit of rugby coaching in Cape Flats township and had my eyes opened in more ways than one. In the evening we'd a few beers with the local coaches and the topic of touring came up. The attitude of the older coaches really surprised me.

    They were of an age to have been young adults when the 1974 Lions tour took place and the tours by Ireland and England in the early 80s. They relished touring teams coming to South Africa in any sport because it heartened them to see the white sporting establishment given a spanking.

    To them, Willie John is a hero because he led a team that stood up and refused to be bullied by the thuggish behaviour of the white South African rugby establishment - not only that, they played some decent rugby as well.

    Finally, if participating in a sporting event in a country run by a despotic regime means de facto exclusion from consideration from being considered a sporting great, where does that leave Jesse Owens?


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    #86
    BTH
    Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Undercover Elephant wrote: »
    To be fair, one of those positive tests was not his fault. ;)

    I'm not aware of this story, please elaborate


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    #87
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    BetterThanHoyte wrote: »
    I'm not aware of this story, please elaborate

    Allegedly (as per Breaking the chain a book by Willy Voet) he tested postive for an amphetamine as he gave a "bogey" sample in a dope test. Unfortunately the urine he gave was a sample from one of the mechanics who'd been taking speed to keep awake the previous night and hence Sean failed the test.
    He disputed the test at the time as AFAIK still does.


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    #88
    Undercover Elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Undercover Elephant


    BetterThanHoyte wrote: »
    I'm not aware of this story, please elaborate
    I'd give you a proper link but the Sunday Tribune has closed, taking the web pages with it. This from the cached Google version:
    Willy Voet, the masseur with the Festina team whose arrest for drug-trafficking brought the 1998 Tour de France into disgrace, revealed 'the truth' in his memoirs.Ten days before the Paris-Brussels race, he claimed, Kelly took the banned drug ephedrine to combat a bout of bronchitis.The books alleges: "At the end of the race. . . the Irishman had to be put to the (dope) test.Nothing of great concern.We had hidden a bottle filled with the urine of a willing mechanic in the cyclist's shorts. . .A few days later, Kelly received a letter from the international federation, informing him that he had tested positive. . .The Irishman was flabbergasted. I investigated the matter and the guilty party was soon unveiled: to keep awake behind the wheel of his truck, the mechanic with the short memory had loaded himself a little." Voet also alleged that Kelly was regularly involved in doping and took drugs the day he claimed the yellow jersey for the first and only time in the Tour de France in 1983. Kelly refused to comment on the allegations last year and continues to maintain his silence.

    EDIT: RobFowl beat me to it. Just to add that according to that article, it was the first failed test in 1984 that Kelly disputes, rather than the unreliable mechanic test.


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    #89
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Undercover Elephant wrote: »
    EDIT: RobFowl beat me to it. Just to add that according to that article, it was the first failed test in 1984 that Kelly disputes, rather than the unreliable mechanic test.

    I rarely beat anyone here !

    It is that test Kelly disputes (1984) the other one he failed was for Codeine in 1988 from solapeine or a similar cold remedy. This substance is no longer banned and indeed hasn't been for quite a while.


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    #90
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Allegedly (as per Breaking the chain a book by Willy Voet) he tested postive for an amphetamine as he gave a "bogey" sample in a dope test. Unfortunately the urine he gave was a sample from one of the mechanics who'd been taking speed to keep awake the previous night and hence Sean failed the test.
    He disputed the test at the time as AFAIK still does.

    Not that it matters now, but passing someone else's urine off as your own constitutes a doping offence.


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    #91
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Not that it matters now, but passing someone else's urine off as your own constitutes a doping offence.

    It does and is now an automatic 2 year ban (at least). It was then too but the test was also failed as there was "speed" in it so Kelly was suspended for a bit (think it was 3 months back then).


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