Irelands greatest ever sportsman -Sean Kelly

Richie Aprille

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXStSnomVoY&feature=player_embedded

funnights74

Jaysus talk about opening a can of worms!! lol. Most cyclists would pick kelly but you have opened the floodgates.

531

Well who else are you expecting votes for on a cycling forum?

happytramp

Yeah right! Apparently you've never heard of someone called Roy Keane.....

BTH

happytramp wrote: »

Yeah right! Apparently you've never heard of someone called Roy Keane.....

He's not even our best footballer ever. Pipe down.

happytramp

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

He's not even our best footballer ever. Pipe down.

Neville Bartos

Very few Irish sportsmen have achieved as much international success as Sean Kelly achieved in his career, especially in an individual sport and potentially the toughest sport in the world at that. The guy's records basically anwser the question..nine monument classics, and 193 professional race wins in total. Also internationally he is regarded as one of the greatest cyclists of all time..we have not many sportsmen who are as widely hailed as being one of the best sportsmen in the world in their given field. Roy Keane great footballer but definatley not one of the greatest players of all time..Maybe for Ireland but not in the worldwide game..Kelly was and is looked upon as one of the greatest cyclists in the world ever!...

funnights74

And dont get the rugby guys started on o driscoll and o gara and their likes, the horse racing fraternity will have a few jockeys names to add to the mix as well. And oh christ the golfers are on a roll now that i think of it.

Neville Bartos

http://listverse.com/2009/05/08/top-10-best-road-cycle-racers-of-all-time/

In what other sport would you see an irishman so far up in the all time list?..I honestly cant think of any irish sports person who would be that far up in an all time list in their given sport..

Beasty

George Best;)

(and there's a lot more competition in football)

funnights74

He's in illustrious company there. Breathtaking.

Cork24

What about

Paul O C ?
Keith Wood, etc etc

Lets face it Sean Kelly in my mind was on stuff and well of every Single person back in his day..

Neville Bartos

George Best..He's not really irish tho is he..His career wasnt long enough anyway..How do you mean there is more competition in football?. The tour de france for example covers more than 3,600 kilometres (2,200 mi) and lasts three weeks. The number of teams usually varies between 20 and 22, with nine riders in each..All this in probably the most physically demanding sport in the world..not as much competiton?..ya right!!!

Pherekydes

This is silly.

I thought it was agreed it was Padraig Harrington's caddy or the guy who trains horses?

Neville Bartos

cork 24 in comparison with other cyclists such as Armstrong and Indurain, Kelly's name is very very rarely mentioned with drugs.. Paul o'c or wood ya were and are good players but would you find their names in the top 5 Rugby players of ALL TIME...Not a hope of it..O'Driscoll maybe but not o'Connell or wood..great players all the same tho..

Beasty

How many professional cyclists are there? Let's keep it simple - how many are there that are Irish

How many professional footballers are there that are Irish?

As I said, there's more competition ....

Anyway, it's simply not meaningful to try and compare across different sports - I would accept Kelly is almost certainly by most measures the greatest Irish cyclist ever....

Neville Bartos

Pherydykes..you thought it was agreed?..haha..By who RTE?.....Its an opinion..

Esroh

Well at the same time Sk was doing his thing. 2 other Irishmen would have been seen as at the top of their sport. And both would have results at World Championships to match SKs
Eamon Coughlan was dominating the indoor track scene and was a serious force outdoors.
And I know you may say its the Horse but Eddie Macken was regarded in the Showjumping World as the best in the world during the same era.(And he also had to do it the hardway by working his way up the ladder with results gaining him better horses as he went on. (The family did not have the money to set him up)

So both of the above would have the results in high numbers against the best the world had to offer

As for toughness of a sport its all relevent.

Neville Bartos

Cycling is an individual sport wheras football is a team sport so of course you will have more competitors.....I dont think that should come into the debate anyway..im talking about quality not quantity..and if you break it down into quality and the amount of international success any irish sports man has had, Kelly is probably at the top..

Hail 2 Da Thief

It's clearly Henry Shefflin!

Dermot Illogical

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

It's clearly Henry Shefflin!

Who's that?

fran oconnor

Drico for me is the best then Kelly, Roche. My favourite sports person though is Paul McGrath.

J Madone

He is not called King Kelly by mistake!:D

Pherekydes

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

It's clearly Henry Shefflin!

I wonder what he could have achieved if he'd been born across the border in Carlow. I'm guessing not much without his 14 Kilkenny teammates.

Likewise Best or any other team player. How would Best have fared with Crewe? Or Keano if he'd stayed at Forest?

Beasty

Neville Bartos wrote: »

Cycling is an individual sport wheras football is a team sport so of course you will have more competitors.....I dont think that should come into the debate anyway..im talking about quality not quantity..and if you break it down into quality and the amount of international success any irish sports man has had, Kelly is probably at the top..

Are you telling me there weren't 8 other HTC riders helping Cav win in Paris?

TBH, it's a completely meaningless discussion:rolleyes:

mick121

ireland has many true world class stars,all of whom deserve respect.the greatest however may depend on the age and sports interest of people.its hard to beat eamon coughlan in my opinion,but lets not forget wee barry mcguighan,steve collins and more recently katie taylor.as for soccer too many to mention.

dlofnep

Gene Tunney. World Heavyweight champion with 2 wins over Jack Dempsey. 65-1 (recorded) as a pro. Amateur, Katie Taylor.

squod

Neville Bartos wrote: »

Very few Irish sportsmen have achieved as much international success as Sean Kelly achieved in his career

Disagree entirely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWcLsnUlEVQ

World Powerlifting Champion - 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
European Powerlifting Champion - 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Current world record holder

I'm sure there's more examples of sporting excellence I'm not aware of.

themandan6611

no, has to be Stephen Roche as the best cyclist - he won the treble - including the big one and the other one Kelly could never win.

two amazing cyclists (along with Martin) - its been a long 20 odd years since we had the like.....

Cork24

squod wrote: »

Neville Bartos wrote: »

Very few Irish sportsmen have achieved as much international success as Sean Kelly achieved in his career

Disagree entirely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWcLsnUlEVQ

World Powerlifting Champion - 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
European Powerlifting Champion - 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Current world record holder

I'm sure there's more examples of sporting excellence I'm not aware of.

Once again a drug riddled sport weight lifting and cycling...

Come on do you really think some one could do a speed of 35 going up hills and do around 85 down them and 45 on the flat roads with out the use of epo ? I don't think so.

How Many cyclist will we hear found using drugs during this year tof ?

Sure why not put Michelle Smith down their as well Since were putting all time irish drug.users in our top sports stars

Were nothing but cheats we talk about China and Russia using drugs Every gold medal we won in the olympics seem to have being using drugs.

Even our horse forget his name. Was on the dam things

Vizzy

Cork24 wrote: »

Once again a drug riddled sport weight lifting and cycling...

Come on do you really think some one could do a speed of 35 going up hills and do around 85 down them and 45 on the flat roads with out the use of epo ? I don't think so.

How Many cyclist will we hear found using drugs during this year tof ?

Sure why not put Michelle Smith down their as well Since were putting all time irish drug.users in our top sports stars

Were nothing but cheats we talk about China and Russia using drugs Every gold medal we won in the olympics seem to have being using drugs.

Even our horse forget his name. Was on the dam things

What about Cian O Connor so !

He never used drugs,the horse did :)

Pherekydes

Cork24 wrote: »

Once again a drug riddled sport weight lifting and cycling...

Come on do you really think some one could do a speed of 35 going up hills ...

35 km/hr? Who did that? What has downhill speed got to do with EPO? As Kelly said, "Just let go of the damn brakes."

As for every Olympic medal being tarnished by drugs, what do you reckon Bob Tisdall, Pat O'Callaghan or Ron Delany were on?

petethedrummer

Cúchulainn for his hurling exploits and that posh fella that nearly a won medal sliding on a tea tray.

pprendeville

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

He's not even our best footballer ever. Pipe down.

"If you don't pipe down".....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4xeidmjy6s

victorcarrera

squod wrote: »

I'm sure there's more examples of sporting excellence I'm not aware of.

Bad example you picked there.
I suggest you look up the documentary RTE radio did on him where he openly admits to taking PED's and his honest insight into their competitions and what they have to do to win.
But that's OK because they don't claim it to be a sport, more like an experiment instead.
A likeable guy if somewhat misguided.
There are no controls in their competitions and they are all on everything.
Ever wonder why does he not have any olympic medals?

Anyhow I think Paul Kimmage is Irelands best sporting cyclist and was probably one of the best in the world before modern PED controls were introduced.

pprendeville

Beasty wrote: »

Are you telling me there weren't 8 other HTC riders helping Cav win in Paris?

TBH, it's a completely meaningless discussion:rolleyes:

there's never a winner in these arguments but it makes for funny reading so i wouldn't say its meaningless.

Neville Bartos

Anyhow I think Paul Kimmage is Irelands best sporting cyclist and was probably one of the best in the world before modern PED controls were introduced.[/QUOTE]

Paul Kimmage, seriosly like ?.... He might be one of the best cycling journalists but even he would admit to not being the best cyclist...Very average..Both Martin Earley and Shay Elliott would be far far better than Kimmage!!..

Neville Bartos

victorcarrera wrote: »

Bad example you picked there.
I suggest you look up the documentary RTE radio did on him where he openly admits to taking PED's and his honest insight into their competitions and what they have to do to win.
But that's OK because they don't claim it to be a sport, more like an experiment instead.
A likeable guy if somewhat misguided.
There are no controls in their competitions and they are all on everything.
Ever wonder why does he not have any olympic medals?

Anyhow I think Paul Kimmage is Irelands best sporting cyclist and was probably one of the best in the world before modern PED controls were introduced.

Paul Kimmage, seriosly like ?.... He might be one of the best cycling journalists but even he would admit to not being the best cyclist...Very average..Both Martin Earley and Shay Elliott would be far far better than Kimmage!!..

RobFowl

victorcarrera wrote: »

Anyhow I think Paul Kimmage is Irelands best sporting cyclist and was probably one of the best in the world before modern PED controls were introduced.

You do know he admitted to doping?

victorcarrera

RobFowl wrote: »

You do know he admitted to doping?

Yes I do. I read his book. I remember the amazing restraint he showed by abstaining when everyone else was on something and the 'gear' was freely available. It was a hard job competing at that level but if you were clean it was impossible. If I remember the story correctly he was in a Dublin hotel room getting ready for an end of season criterium and feeling so tired he did not want to ride. He took an upper from a fellow rider and described his resultant form as follows.
" I felt so strong I thought I was going to break the frame."
I think he retired shortly after that.

To others: I was replying to a thread titled Irelands greatest ever sportsman.
So Kimmage still gets my vote for what he has done in and for cycling and by extension other sports also.

petethedrummer

Sonia O'Sullivan. Only beaten by cheats and illness.

robinph

Neville Bartos wrote: »

http://listverse.com/2009/05/08/top-10-best-road-cycle-racers-of-all-time/

In what other sport would you see an irishman so far up in the all time list?..I honestly cant think of any irish sports person who would be that far up in an all time list in their given sport..

Eamonn Coghlan broke the indoor mile record four times, so was therefore the top of the list. Also first person over the age of 40 to go sub 4 which isn't too shabby, not sure if any other old blokes have since done a sub 4 or not.

Rofo

Richie Aprille wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXStSnomVoY&feature=player_embedded

At 39 seconds - What is Donncha O'Callaghan doing trying to go up against Kelly? Madness..

Neville Bartos

Rofo wrote: »

At 39 seconds - What is Donncha O'Callaghan doing trying to go up against Kelly? Madness..

Haha!!!..Donnacha o'Callaghan...Got to hand it to ya there, that is a good one!!

Eamonn Coughlan is no doubt one of the greatest Irish Sportsmen but for me he would still be a bit behind Kelly...Is Coughlan rated in the top 5 of all time greatest runners that the world has ever seen?...Maybe not...

JMJR

For consistent achievement over a long period of time Joey Dunlop has to be a top condender.

Formula One TT World Championship

1981 3rd
1982 1st
1983 1st
1984 1st
1985 1st
1986 1st
1987 2nd
1988 2nd
1989 2nd

The_Kew_Tour

petethedrummer wrote: »

Sonia O'Sullivan. Only beaten by cheats and illness.

Yep in 93 wc and 2000 olympics.

robinph

petethedrummer wrote: »

Sonia O'Sullivan. Only beaten by cheats and illness.

I was only a 9 seconds off beating her in a 10k a couple of months back, and she "cheated" by starting infront of me whilst I had to dodge around a bunch of other slower people at the start.*


*She may not have actually been trying particularly hard to race at the time.

Undercover Elephant

Neville Bartos wrote: »

Eamonn Coughlan is no doubt one of the greatest Irish Sportsmen but for me he would still be a bit behind Kelly...Is Coughlan rated in the top 5 of all time greatest runners that the world has ever seen?...Maybe not...

It's not like your list is objective, though, is it? Just some guy giving his opinion. If that's the measuring stick, best just give the thing to Liam Brady and be done with it.

squod

victorcarrera wrote: »

Bad example you picked there.
I suggest you look up the documentary RTE radio did on him where he openly admits to taking PED's and his honest insight into their competitions and what they have to do to win.
But that's OK because they don't claim it to be a sport, more like an experiment instead.
A likeable guy if somewhat misguided.
There are no controls in their competitions and they are all on everything.
Ever wonder why does he not have any olympic medals?

Anyhow I think Paul Kimmage is Irelands best sporting cyclist and was probably one of the best in the world before modern PED controls were introduced.

Post up a linky. AFAIK he did two RTE radio interviews. Pretty sure in both he denied taking anything but regular supps.

There's also a good few Irish record holders and champions in the WDFPA
(tested drug free).

Cork24 wrote: »

Once again a drug riddled sport weight lifting and cycling...

IMO you put way too much emphasis on doing athletes down in general. Might aswell throw your TV out the window.

Rallying, horse racing, boxing, powerlifting, strongman........ I'm sure there s a load more sports we could be discussing where Irish people have excelled.

Lusk Doyle

Neville Bartos wrote: »

Cycling is an individual sport wheras football is a team sport so of course you will have more competitors.....I dont think that should come into the debate anyway..im talking about quality not quantity..and if you break it down into quality and the amount of international success any irish sports man has had, Kelly is probably at the top..

Cycling is an individual sport? Learn something new every day!

Lusk Doyle

themandan6611 wrote: »

no, has to be Stephen Roche as the best cyclist - he won the treble - including the big one and the other one Kelly could never win.

two amazing cyclists (along with Martin) - its been a long 20 odd years since we had the like.....

Martin? Do you mean Dan Martin? Keep dreaming pal!