Diablo 3: Have Blizzard shot themselves in the foot?

gizmo

Shiminay wrote: »

Couple of other flaws in Nix's argument:

Blizzard don't make console games like damn near every other giant publisher. This means they *must* capture as much of the PC gaming market as possible with every game they make. They make incredibly good and popular multi-player games, so they're by far and away one of the best in the business at what they do. So, by ignoring the console market, they can focus on useful stuff for PC gamers who take their game *very* seriously as well as those who don't want that involved a game.

I'll just leave this here.

Shiminay

Well hot-diggity, I did not know that. *

I can't see it being the same game though- I'm pretty sure MS won't allow an auction house in the way they're describing on XBox, not even for Billy Bucks rather than cash, but I would expect MS Points based transactions being a part of it. I'm not familiar with how PSN manages it's shopping/micro-transactions stuff, but you can be sure Sony will want their cut too.

I would speculate that we may see the Diablo IP make an appearance on the consoles, but I don't see it being the same game. Fable 3 being so awful leaves the door open for a really good hack-n-slash with RPG elements to step in that I don't think Dragon Age 2 filled. Again, not familiar with PlayStation, so I don't know what games like this (besides DA2) are out there for that console.


* of course it's entirely plausible that it's been posted before, that I've read it before and have commented on it before, but have simply forgotten

nix

Blizzard have never really made console games though, they had a few attempts if memory serves but the games never took off in the market, because playing warcraft or diablo with a joypad would be a nightmare in itself, thats why they dont go to console. I can assure you if keyboard and mouse became a common utility for consoles they would be all over the market. (EDIT: Ha Gizmo points out they are going console)

Blizzard have always given great games, thats what i loved about them, they were generally focused on the gameplay over anything which i loved. They were never greedy with their games and always released a polished fun game.

They were able to do this and support the games for years on my purchase of what games used to cost which was 35.00 for pc games max.

Now were forking out 50.00 and then some.

Whats changed? besides people just wanting ALOT more for their work?

Are the games these days better? no, they are easier, and i can tell you right now, a 15 hour campaign would take me half that time. I know this may come off as cocky but its just the way it goes.

And i know for a fact SC provided alot more than 15 hours gameplay in the 3 campaigns provided.

I cant tell how many games ive played that boasted crazy hours of gameplay and here i am trading it in the next day finished. Granted this is not the trend with Diablo games as the re playability has been fantastic.

I just cant see how this AH stuff can be considered as anything else other than greed. I can tell you now the price of uniques will be crazy, just look at how much wow accounts can go for..

And if you haven't got many friends that play this, gl finding a game thats not full of koreans farming...kek

And are they bringing back hardcore mode? i can see items selling for crazy on that AH. Increasing survivability and giving them the edge in climbing the ladder.

Frankly id rather pay a sub of $5 than see this **** implemented, then everybody will be equal in a "FUN GAME".

I thank you for all your feedbacks on my rants, you have restored some faith to an extent, i know my predictions may seem radical and paranoid, but i have been face palming at gaming for the past decade and have seen many good companies turn into greed mongers and their games getting rushed out unfinished to make a quick buck, hampering the skill required in the games to keep the noobs happy and coughing up the cash for the DLC... *cough* activsion*cough*EA*cough*

And they are currently whoring WoW out of it with additional fee's, like transfers, special mounts, paying to group with players across server and the list goes on...

Shiminay

Taking into account that game prices haven't really changed much in the last 15 years (and they haven't really - not in any significant way) but production costs have absolutely sky-rocketed, I don't think the increased number of people buying games comes even remotely close to making game production as profitable as it once was.

Auction houses - it's going to happen anyway, every game of this type has a black market in these sorts of things, so why not "legalise" it and manage it and yes dammit, make some money off it?

Magill

nix wrote: »

Blizzard have never really made console games though, they had a few attempts if memory serves but the games never took off in the market, because playing warcraft or diablo with a joypad would be a nightmare in itself, thats why they dont go to console. I can assure you if keyboard and mouse became a common utility for consoles they would be all over the market. (EDIT: Ha Gizmo points out they are going console)

Blizzard have always given great games, thats what i loved about them, they were generally focused on the gameplay over anything which i loved. They were never greedy with their games and always released a polished fun game.

They were able to do this and support the games for years on my purchase of what games used to cost which was 35.00 for pc games max.

Now were forking out 50.00 and then some.

Whats changed? besides people just wanting ALOT more for their work?

Are the games these days better? no, they are easier, and i can tell you right now, a 15 hour campaign would take me half that time. I know this may come off as cocky but its just the way it goes.

And i know for a fact SC provided alot more than 15 hours gameplay in the 3 campaigns provided.

I cant tell how many games ive played that boasted crazy hours of gameplay and here i am trading it in the next day finished. Granted this is not the trend with Diablo games as the re playability has been fantastic.

I just cant see how this AH stuff can be considered as anything else other than greed. I can tell you now the price of uniques will be crazy, just look at how much wow accounts can go for..

And if you haven't got many friends that play this, gl finding a game thats not full of koreans farming...kek

And are they bringing back hardcore mode? i can see items selling for crazy on that AH. Increasing survivability and giving them the edge in climbing the ladder.

Frankly id rather pay a sub of $5 than see this **** implemented, then everybody will be equal in a "FUN GAME".

I thank you for all your feedbacks on my rants, you have restored some faith to an extent, i know my predictions may seem radical and paranoid, but i have been face palming at gaming for the past decade and have seen many good companies turn into greed mongers and their games getting rushed out unfinished to make a quick buck, hampering the skill required in the games to keep the noobs happy and coughing up the cash for the DLC... *cough* activsion*cough*EA*cough*

And they are currently whoring WoW out of it with additional fee's, like transfers, special mounts, paying to group with players across server and the list goes on...

Why are games more expensive now ? Besides inflation ? Increased cost of production and development teams being 10 times the size of what they used to be ? Im not sure. 10 years ago a Mars bar was 25p, they're now 75p... go figure.

Also im pretty sure you can get games pretty cheap these days online (Seen some people post that they got Deus Ex for just 24euro !!), ive not paid over 40 quid for a game in a long time.


EDIT. As for diablo 3 coming to console... great news for me tbh, hopefully they do a good job on it. It can work on consoles imo, although i've not played it, torchlight looks excellent on xbox.

nix

I can deal with inflation, its the extra costs after that

Companion box

nix wrote: »

I can deal with inflation, its the extra costs after that

You mean the costs that go with having to hire ten times the development staff to create a game many more times as complex in art,design and mechanics?

You do realize the extra work required to fully realize a 3d world in diablo 3 as opposed to diablo 2? The texture work involved, the level design?

Doing all this and restricting themselves to a single revenue platform on the PC.

Prices havent scaled with the teams now required to do this work, they have barely moved, grow up.

nix

Oh im a child because i dont know how much it costs to run a game company, sorry your majesty :rolleyes:

You seem to forget that the tools they have nowadays are alot better than the tools they had for D2, and the art work will be detailed, and then copy and pasted here and there, how point and click scrollers designs go...

The cost of the game and the amount of copies they would have sold would have covered all of that, its the AH handling fee's they want for providing stuff like patches??? Yeah alota work goes into nerfing/fixing bugs :rolleyes:

They have a big team to make the game, after its made, that team move onto another game, and a different smaller team takes over, am i right?

RichieD

The online only thing is annoying but the auction house doesnt bother me, actually it could turn out to be brilliant if you get very lucky with drops.

gizmo

nix wrote: »

You seem to forget that the tools they have nowadays are alot better than the tools they had for D2, and the art work will be detailed, and then copy and pasted here and there, how point and click scrollers designs go...

While their level building tools are probably more advanced nowadays so too are the levels they are building. Same goes for the assets that go into their worlds, I'm quite often glad to be staring at a Visual Studio window when I see others with Maya and ZBrush open in front of them.

nix wrote: »

The cost of the game and the amount of copies they would have sold would have covered all of that, its the AH handling fee's they want for providing stuff like patches??? Yeah alota work goes into nerfing/fixing bugs :rolleyes:

Diablo III will most likely be one of those few PC only titles which will cover it's development costs via sales. On top of that though there is the continued cost of supporting the game both in terms of manpower and hardware, this is where I'm sure the AH cut will come in handy. As for that last comment regarding bugs, I say this as respectfully as I can - don't talk about things you know nothing about.

nix wrote: »

They have a big team to make the game, after its made, that team move onto another game, and a different smaller team takes over, am i right?

Smaller development team for new content and maintenance, sure. They'll still have a host of QA and network guys on board too though.

Jonny7

nix wrote: »

Blizzard have never really made console games though, they had a few attempts if memory serves but the games never took off in the market, because playing warcraft or diablo with a joypad would be a nightmare in itself, thats why they dont go to console. I can assure you if keyboard and mouse became a common utility for consoles they would be all over the market. (EDIT: Ha Gizmo points out they are going console)

Blizzard have always given great games, thats what i loved about them, they were generally focused on the gameplay over anything which i loved. They were never greedy with their games and always released a polished fun game.

They were able to do this and support the games for years on my purchase of what games used to cost which was 35.00 for pc games max.

Now were forking out 50.00 and then some.

Whats changed? besides people just wanting ALOT more for their work?

Are the games these days better? no, they are easier, and i can tell you right now, a 15 hour campaign would take me half that time. I know this may come off as cocky but its just the way it goes.

And i know for a fact SC provided alot more than 15 hours gameplay in the 3 campaigns provided.

I cant tell how many games ive played that boasted crazy hours of gameplay and here i am trading it in the next day finished. Granted this is not the trend with Diablo games as the re playability has been fantastic.

I just cant see how this AH stuff can be considered as anything else other than greed. I can tell you now the price of uniques will be crazy, just look at how much wow accounts can go for..

And if you haven't got many friends that play this, gl finding a game thats not full of koreans farming...kek

And are they bringing back hardcore mode? i can see items selling for crazy on that AH. Increasing survivability and giving them the edge in climbing the ladder.

Frankly id rather pay a sub of $5 than see this **** implemented, then everybody will be equal in a "FUN GAME".

I thank you for all your feedbacks on my rants, you have restored some faith to an extent, i know my predictions may seem radical and paranoid, but i have been face palming at gaming for the past decade and have seen many good companies turn into greed mongers and their games getting rushed out unfinished to make a quick buck, hampering the skill required in the games to keep the noobs happy and coughing up the cash for the DLC... *cough* activsion*cough*EA*cough*

And they are currently whoring WoW out of it with additional fee's, like transfers, special mounts, paying to group with players across server and the list goes on...

You claimed you didn't buy SC2 because of the single player (which is split over 3 games)

Yet you won't buy Diablo 3 because of the multiplayer (the Auction House)

To top it all off your probably gonna get Max Payne 3 which will be the same price, prob has no multiplayer and will be completed in 5 hours or less!

nix

no, ill rent/borrow Max Payne

I'm not playing them out of principle as i refuse to be ripped off, i do it with alot of games, COD, Battlefield etc. Anything with EA on it i avoid like the plague.

Sorry for talking about stuff i dont know alot about Giz, alot of other posters here are doing the same though

Your posts im loving though

Jonny7

nix wrote: »

no, ill rent/borrow Max Payne

I'm not playing them out of principle as i refuse to be ripped off, i do it with alot of games, COD, Battlefield etc. Anything with EA on it i avoid like the plague.

Sorry for talking about stuff i dont know alot about Giz, alot of other posters here are doing the same though

Your posts im loving though

Fair enough, I don't think I'll touch the multiplayer diablo, just play the single player through.. if the thing ever comes out

gizmo

nix wrote: »

no, ill rent/borrow Max Payne

I'm not playing them out of principle as i refuse to be ripped off, i do it with alot of games, COD, Battlefield etc. Anything with EA on it i avoid like the plague.

Sorry for talking about stuff i dont know alot about Giz, alot of other posters here are doing the same though

Your posts im loving though

Avoiding EA purchase-wise or just in general? I hope it's the former since you're missing out on some truly fantastic titles over the last few years.

As for my reply above, that's true, I was just still in the office at the time of posting, working on said bug fixing so it was just bad timing.

nix

In general, mainly PC/multiplayer games as they never provide a finished project and they make a piss poor effort of supporting games after they are released. I always got the "we got the money off you, thats all that matters" vibe from them, plus they bring out the sequel to the game within like a year preventing any kind of competitive community growing within the game.

Now i havent played ALL EA games but the games like Battlefield they completely sucked with, they were fun for awhile but soooo many bugs and crap hit reg i found turned me off he games big time, but they have time to make map packs to sell?

Lets not mention the Warhammer online game they ruined by rushing out 1/2 finished to cash in.

I just lost all respect for them and out of principal i refuse to buy their games.

humanji

Just to bring this back (makes more sense than starting a new thread on the same topic), I just read that there isn't even a pause option in the game. Is anyone in the Beta and able to give their impressions of it?

I think it was Rock Paper Shotgun that had a beta preview and the guy was saying that if he's in the middle of a fight and the doorbell rings then he's screwed. And he left the PC for a little while and was logged out due to inactivity, resetting his game to an earlier checkpoint.

This game is sounding more and more like a chore to play.

Kiith

humanji wrote: »

This game is sounding more and more like a MMO to play.

Fixed your post, unfortunately. It's definitely sounding more and more like an MMO system, which is fine for some games, but i'd rather it wasn't in Diablo 3. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt though, as they do make some great games.

Gummy Panda

humanji wrote: »

Just to bring this back (makes more sense than starting a new thread on the same topic), I just read that there isn't even a pause option in the game. Is anyone in the Beta and able to give their impressions of it?

There is no pause as its an online game like a mmo.

Yogscast got an invite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4qmrZEF-rE

ShadowHearth

If you really want to run that game smoothly you will need a good machine.

My pc is struggling. When I get a huge gang up it becomes a real slide show.

That the only game that is currently kicking my pc in a jewels.

Some of mmorpg things are great, but some are really meh.

Chest is shared with all the characters. So at level one you will have advantage from all your previuos characters. It's a nice thing, but no more refilling level 1 amd see what you can do from a scratch.

It looks great amd still feels like diablo 2. Most of zones are random generated, but they feel right. Not like hellcats London where's everything was random generated and felt the same. Diablo 3 keeps key spots. Old Tristram etc.

Beta is very short thought . 13 level max if I remember correctly.


One is for sure: it's about time to upgrade your pcs

D

At least give us some info on your machine's specs.

Edit: http://www.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/diablo-iii-pc-spec-requirements-revealed

Found this article.

Stev_o

(Note: Be advised that some wireless connections do not meet the minimums required to be a true Broadband Internet connection. Wireless results may vary.)

Ouch.

Anyway seems like it isn't that CPU intensive.

Gummy Panda

ShadowHearth wrote: »

If you really want to run that game smoothly you will need a good machine.

My pc is struggling. When I get a huge gang up it becomes a real slide show.

That the only game that is currently kicking my pc in a jewels.

Some of mmorpg things are great, but some are really meh.

Chest is shared with all the characters. So at level one you will have advantage from all your previuos characters. It's a nice thing, but no more refilling level 1 amd see what you can do from a scratch.

It looks great amd still feels like diablo 2. Most of zones are random generated, but they feel right. Not like hellcats London where's everything was random generated and felt the same. Diablo 3 keeps key spots. Old Tristram etc.

Beta is very short thought . 13 level max if I remember correctly.


One is for sure: it's about time to upgrade your pcs

lucky bastard!

I never get Bliz beta invites.

ShadowHearth

My machine is prety old, but it had no trouble running anything.

Quad core 6600 3rd ram and 6870.

AA is disabled in beta too. All maxed out, but filterring and other goodies on low.


Droping down graphics to medium does not help much performance at all.

I am hoping it's just beta optimisation problems.

It feels more like a demo them beta lads. If you liked diablo 2 then this is diablo 2 on higher graphics.

One thing I didn't liked: you got 3 item in your permenant inventory: pot to sale stuff on the fly, cube to break down items in to components and free town portal. Same as hearthstone in wow.

You could be in dungeons without coming back for hours . It is made to make it easier for players, but destroys some of the diabl. Spirit for me.

hooradiation

ShadowHearth wrote: »

One thing I didn't liked: you got 3 item in your permenant inventory: pot to sale stuff on the fly, cube to break down items in to components and free town portal. Same as hearthstone in wow.

I really like the sound of this change, being able to bail at a moments notice should I need to is pretty appealing.

Does it have a hearthstone style 30 minute cool down or can you hop back and forth as you see fit?

ShadowHearth

hooradiation wrote: »

I really like the sound of this change, being able to bail at a moments notice should I need to is pretty appealing.

Does it have a hearthstone style 30 minute cool down or can you hop back and forth as you see fit?

I didn't noticed it, but I can check it when back home if anyone interested.

It takes ages to cast though.

Big Knox

It's good, plays well and haven't had any performance issues although my PC is pretty beasty so it's not a good reflection on lower spec machines!!

As Shadowhearth said it's very short, first clear time was under 2 hours and I was level 8 when I finished it but the level cap is 13 and you can play multi player and in diablo style do boss runs for loot (well only the 1 boss

King Leoric is back

).

It's very similar too D2 in alot of ways especially the skills available to each class but one thing i'm not too happy about is you don't get too allocate stat or skill points each level it's done automatically like WoW. You get set stats and skills each level which is nothing like D2. I presume this is staying this way at final release which means every character will have the same skills available and the same stats with them relying on boosting certain skills with runes. Also town portals have been replaced by a heartstone which does the same thing so not too bad really.

However I have faith in Blizzard, the game looks great especially the environments and the crafting / mercenary side of things have been given a big overhaul.

If anyone has any othr questions i'll try answer them.

hooradiation

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I didn't noticed it, but I can check it when back home if anyone interested.

It takes ages to cast though.

I look forward to people being bitched at for doing "bubble and hearth" at important moments.

Big Knox

hooradiation wrote: »

I look forward to people being bitched at for doing "bubble and hearth" at important moments.

Well it was actually easier to do in D2 as TP's were instant!!

Gummy Panda

hopefully they'll update the beta with pvp. I think the arena style pvp will be a big a draw for some people. I noticed its becoming very popular among pc players.

Ethan.Saaris

I guess everybody's problem (including me) is that they compare it to D2. It should be a sequel, not a completely different game. And it IS a completely different game. They started using the low-poly features, which from a distance look nice - a bit cartoony, though - but from a close-up they look like WoW.

I expected nicer graphics, not more 3D features and shading and particles. I played D1 and D2 and all expansions for the story, for the feeling and for the items. I read tons of fan fiction for D2. I absolutely LOVED D2.

I don't think this is the way with D3.

But, games evolve, they go online, they start using real money.

There will always be single players, solitaire characters, living and breathing the environment and the story, and there will be greedy players, farmers, cheaters.

Pick a side.