David Norris' presidential bid scupperd by Israel

My name is URL

Anyone else following this on the news right now? Apparently the Israeli Embassy have released letters dating back to the early 90's from David Norris asking for leniency to be shown towards his ex-partner Ezra Nawi, who was being charged with statutory rape of a Palestinian boy at the time.

It's likely to completely ruin his bid to be president.

The reasons for Israel releasing these letters only now is blatantly obvious in my eyes. What's your thoughts?

King Mob

So why does Israel not want Norris to be president exactly?

My name is URL

King Mob wrote: »

So why does Israel not want Norris to be president exactly?

Really..? Can you not take a stab in the dark at why they don't want him to be president? His former partner, and still close friend is a major dissenting voice in Israel.

Why do you think they'd release these letters just now? I guarantee you that it's not because they're concerned about us electing a president that would be bad for Ireland.

uriah

If the Department of Justice released letters he wrote to the Irish Government asking for leniency for someone being charged with rape of an underage child, would our first instinct be to accuse them of attempting to scupper his campaign?

Do we believe such information about possible presidential candidates is relevant and ought to be released?

Or do we believe it is none of our business?

King Mob

My name is URL wrote: »

Really..? Can you not take a stab in the dark at why they don't want him to be president? His former partner, and still close friend is a major dissenting voice in Israel.

And can you explain how Norris would be a major problem for them considering the president here doesn't have that much power?
Surely they'd be working to destroy the actual power in our country?

My name is URL wrote: »

Why do you think they'd release these letters just now? I guarantee you that it's not because they're concerned about us electing a president that would be bad for Ireland.

Well you haven't even shown that it was the Israeli government in the first place.

But then I forgot the rule around here, since it was a thing involving Israelis/Jews I should just assume it is a conspiracy....

Emiko

uriah wrote: »

If the Department of Justice released letters he wrote to the Irish Government asking for leniency for someone being charged with rape of an underage child, would our first instinct be to accuse them of attempting to scupper his campaign?

Do we believe such information about possible presidential candidates is relevant and ought to be released?

Or do we believe it is none of our business?

Statutory rape is not rape. It means the person had sex with someone underage.

uriah

Emiko wrote: »

Statutory rape is not rape. It means the person had sex with someone underage.

Then why is it called 'rape'

Yitzhak Rabin

King Mob wrote: »

And can you explain how Norris would be a major problem for them considering the president here doesn't have that much power?
Surely they'd be working to destroy the actual power in our country?


Well you haven't even shown that it was the Israeli government in the first place.

But then I forgot the rule around here, since it was a thing involving Israelis/Jews I should just assume it is a conspiracy....

Y'know, sometimes the conspiracy makes more sense mob...

Anyway, its true, so what does it matter who released the letters. A senator tried to use his position as a senator to interfere in a trial of his partner accused of child rape. Not someone I want representing our country.

Wolfe Tone

How young was the boy?

My name is URL

King Mob wrote: »

Well you haven't even shown that it was the Israeli government in the first place.

But then I forgot the rule around here, since it was a thing involving Israelis/Jews I should just assume it is a conspiracy....

Switch on the radio.. it's been mentioned on various news bulletins that the Israeli embassy are the ones that leaked the letters to Norris' campaign team.

King Mob wrote: »

And can you explain how Norris would be a major problem for them considering the president here doesn't have that much power?
Surely they'd be working to destroy the actual power in our country?

A measure of how petty they are. They don't care if he'd be a problem or not.. they care that he has ties with an outspoken critic of their fair land.

Emiko

uriah wrote: »

Then why is it called 'rape'

It's a technical term.

Statutory rape is not rape.

They are two different crimes.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

How young was the boy?

15

My name is URL

yekahS wrote: »

Y'know, sometimes the conspiracy makes more sense mob...

Anyway, its true, so what does it matter who released the letters. A senator tried to use his position as a senator to interfere in a trial of his partner accused of child rape. Not someone I want representing our country.

Accused being the operative word, yekahS. He had not been found guilty at the time when Norris wrote the letters (and I agree that he shouldn't have done that in the first place).. he asked for clemency to be shown, and for the evidence to be carefully examined. It's hardly the worst thing an elected official could do.

His hopes to be president are over. That's fine, and not surprising given this new information. But the motives of Israel releasing the documents now can still be questioned. To me it just shows them for the slimy scumbags that they are. Taking the moral high-ground over something like this despite their own history of interfering in the affairs of other countries.

King Mob

My name is URL wrote: »

Switch on the radio.. it's been mentioned on various news bulletins that the Israeli embassy are the ones that leaked the letters to Norris' campaign team.

So no nothing to actually suggest that it was orders from the global conspiracy?
How do you know that it wasn't someone on Norris's team requesting the information?
How do you know that it wasn't someone acting on their own?

My name is URL wrote: »

A measure of how petty they are. They don't care if he'd be a problem or not.. they care that he has ties with an outspoken critic of their fair land.

So what should the evil conspirators have done?
Withheld the information? Should they have covered up the incident?
I bet that not releasing the letter would also be construed as a conspiracy...

yekahS wrote: »

Y'know, sometimes the conspiracy makes more sense mob...

Yea and this isn't one of them.
It just seems to be another case of Israel = evil conspiracy.
I guarantee that if the source was Spain or France this topic wouldn't be here.

yekahS wrote: »

Anyway, its true, so what does it matter who released the letters. A senator tried to use his position as a senator to interfere in a trial of his partner accused of child rape. Not someone I want representing our country.

Well clearly you've just fallen for the Evil Jewish Conspiracy's trap.

My name is URL

King Mob wrote: »

So no nothing to actually suggest that it was orders from the global conspiracy?
How do you know that it wasn't someone on Norris's team requesting the information?
How do you know that it wasn't someone acting on their own?


So what should the evil conspirators have done?
Withheld the information? Should they have covered up the incident?
I bet that not releasing the letter would also be construed as a conspiracy...


Yea and this isn't one of them.
It just seems to be another case of Israel = evil conspiracy.
I guarantee that if the source was Spain or France this topic wouldn't be here.


Well clearly you've just fallen for the Evil Jewish Conspiracy's trap.

:rolleyes:

King Mob

My name is URL wrote: »

:rolleyes:

A concise rebuttal that counters my point and truly shows that your claim isn't just based on bigotry and assumptions.
:rolleyes:

Emiko

King Mob wrote: »

A concise rebuttal that counters my point and truly shows that your claim isn't just based on bigotry and assumptions.
:rolleyes:

Why do you think Israel released the letters?

My name is URL

King Mob wrote: »

A concise rebuttal that counters my point and truly shows that your claim isn't just based on bigotry and assumptions.
:rolleyes:

No, it was a rebuttal fitting your reply. Have you turned on the radio yet? Are you not hearing the story being reported? =/ How is it based on assumption?

As for bigotry, well you're always quick to claim that opinions are based on bigotry. I suppose that by having a negative view of Israel, based on documented history and form, that I am a rabid anti-semite. Well, if that's what makes an anti-semite then so be it.. I am happy to call myself an anti-semite if that is the case.

brimal

My name is URL wrote: »

But the motives of Israel releasing the documents now can still be questioned. To me it just shows them for the slimy scumbags that they are.

There is a thread on the Politics forum about this. You should see the difference in language and maturity.

Not one 'Israel are xyz' post. Everyone is having a reasonable debate on the issue without any hate-filled bias.

This forum still a breeding ground for anti-Israel & anti-Jew agendas.

uriah

Emiko wrote: »

It's a technical term.

Statutory rape is not rape.

So, techinally, it is rape?

King Mob

Emiko wrote: »

Why do you think Israel released the letters?

That's the thing, there's nothing to show "Israel" did.
All that is known is that it is leaked from the embassy.
Url et al are making the assumption that this was on orders from the Israeli government because Israel = conspiracy.
However as I pointed out in the previous post there are many other explanations that don't rely on Israelis being pure evil and always out to get everyone.
For example it could have been a single employee who leaked the letter on his/her own volition.
Or it could have been a member of Norris's own team who asked a contact or such to hand him the letter.
But then these explanations don't play to the Israel is evil agenda here so they are ignored with a :rolleyes:.

Now my question is, what you guys think they should have done with the letter? Refuse to release information? Cover it up and deny it was ever sent?

My name is URL

brimal wrote: »

There is a thread on the Politics forum about this. You should see the difference in language and maturity.

Not one 'Israel are xyz' post. Everyone is having a reasonable debate on the issue without any hate-filled bias.

This forum still a breeding ground for anti-Israel & anti-Jew agendas.

Israel is a breeding ground for anti-Israel agendas. Their history in foreign relations and affairs speaks for itself. I care not for the religion of those involved. And fwiw, when I say that they are slimy scumbags, I am only referring to those involved in making the calls.

Emiko

uriah wrote: »

So, techinally, it is rape?

Now you're being deliberately obtuse.

Go look it up instead of acting the dick.

King Mob

My name is URL wrote: »

No, it was a rebuttal fitting your reply. Have you turned on the radio yet? Are you not hearing the story being reported? =/ How is it based on assumption?

You are assuming that the Israeli government ordered the letter to be leaked.
How do you know this?
How do you discount the other possible explanations I suggested?

My name is URL wrote: »

As for bigotry, well you're always quick to claim that opinions are based on bigotry. I suppose that by having a negative view of Israel, based on documented history and form, that I am a rabid anti-semite. Well, if that's what makes an anti-semite then so be it.. I am happy to call myself an anti-semite if that is the case.

Well you see there's a difference between criticising Israel and their policies and assuming that people/organisations are involved in conspiracies because of their nationality/heritage.
You don't understand that difference.

Wolfe Tone

I'm just delighted that this came out now before the election.

Emiko

King Mob wrote: »

That's the thing, there's nothing to show "Israel" did.
All that is known is that it is leaked from the embassy.
Url et al are making the assumption that this was on orders from the Israeli government because Israel = conspiracy.

Now my question is, what you guys think they should have done with the letter? Refuse to release information? Cover it up and deny it was ever sent?

The weekend will tell a story, but like URL I'd be suspicious of their motives.

I'd suspect they've done it to get at Nawi, as opposed to any interest in who will be Ireland's next president.

King Mob

Emiko wrote: »

The weekend will tell a story, but like URL I'd be suspicious of their motives.

And being suspicious of a people without anything to support that suspicion is bigotry.

Emiko wrote: »

I'd suspect they've done it to get at Nawi, as opposed to any interest in who will be Ireland's next president.

But again, you're assuming it was "they" in the first place.

Emiko

King Mob wrote: »

And being suspicious of a people without anything to support that suspicion is bigotry.

Being suspicious of a government's actions is necessarily bigotry?

I don't see how.

But again, you're assuming it was "they" in the first place.

For now. Like i said, the weekend will tell a story.

My name is URL

King Mob wrote: »

You are assuming that the Israeli government ordered the letter to be leaked.
How do you know this?
How do you discount the other possible explanations I suggested?

Fair enough, I am assuming that they took it upon themselves to release the letters. Time will tell.

Well you see there's a difference between criticising Israel and their policies and assuming that people/organisations are involved in conspiracies because of their nationality/heritage.
You don't understand that difference.

I do understand the difference. I wasn't unfairly basing my opinion on nationality or heritage. The facts which are available atm suggest that the letters were handed over by the Israeli embassy, for whatever reason. And that the man at the centre of this whole thing just happens to be an extremely vocal critic of Israel, as is Norris to a far lesser extent. Those are facts, not opinions based on anything.

GerardKeating

Emiko wrote: »

It's a technical term.

Statutory rape is not rape.

They are two different crimes.



15

Rape is Sex without consent, a 15 cannot consent, so it IS rape.

Of course he might actually be innocent of the allegation.

King Mob

Emiko wrote: »

Being suspicious of a government's actions is necessarily bigotry?

I don't see how.

Because you are only assuming that it is government action because it is Israel.

King Mob

My name is URL wrote: »

Fair enough, I am assuming that they took it upon themselves to release the letters. Time will tell.

I do understand the difference. I wasn't unfairly basing my opinion on nationality or heritage. The facts which are available atm suggest that the letters were handed over by the Israeli embassy, for whatever reason. And that the man at the centre of this whole thing just happens to be an extremely vocal critic of Israel, as is Norris to a far lesser extent. Those are facts, not opinions based on anything.

But you are assuming that the Israeli government did release the letter for the express purpose of either getting to the activist or influencing our government.
The only thing you have to support this is your own bias.
You are assuming it's a conspiracy.
This is not the same as fair criticism of a government.