Pheasant loss

Tawny Owl

Just heard the local Club lost 90 Cock Pheasant to 3 Pine Martens they climbed over the fence thats just under half there Birds gone for this season.

jap gt

thats a fair hit to take, how do they know it was pine martin that did it?

Tawny Owl

One of the lads saw them

pheasntstalker

:(:( ouch thats harsh lad,can u trap him,or they protected?

jap gt

pheasntstalker wrote: »

:(:( ouch thats harsh lad,can u trap him,or they protected?

the problem with pine martin is they are protected, it will be very hard to stop them getting back in

bunny shooter

Shame to see all that work wiped out

Cass

Thats a loss no doubt. Had a similar issue a few years ago with mink. Loss 60+ birds.

pheasntstalker wrote: »

:(:( ouch thats harsh lad,can u trap him,or they protected?

jap gt wrote: »

the problem with pine martin is they are protected,...........

As was said and just to reiterate Pine Martens are a fully protected species meaning they cannot be trapped, shot, hurt, injured, moved, etc, etc. Its illegal to even interfere with their habitat. Whether any of the above is on purpose or accidental is irrelevant.

arrowloopboy

Ezridax wrote: »

Thats a loss no doubt. Had a similar issue a few years ago with mink. Loss 60+ birds.





As was said and just to reiterate Pine Martens are a fully protected species meaning they cannot be trapped, shot, hurt, injured, moved, etc, etc. Its illegal to even interfere with their habitat. Whether any of the above is on purpose or accidental is irrelevant.

Does that mean you can't set traps for mink/rats in this area ?

landkeeper

they are getting a bit to numerous from all i hear:mad: we were on the recieving end of one a few years ago he killed over 2 hundred 16wk old cock poults in a release pen came in over the wire through the trees
and time and again i'm hearing of poultry keepers being wiped out i spoke to one old boy in Ni who had an entire shed of rare breed poultry killed in one night over 70 birds in seperate pens but it killed everyone and only ate one
chattin to another lad at longford show at the weekend lost 50 something chickens in one raid the damm thing was asleep in a nestbox when he went into the shed .
rediculous situation where you have something like that killing all before it and you can't legally do anything about it .

Cass

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Does that mean you can't set traps for mink/rats in this area ?

Thats the stupid part.

You can set traps for mink, rats, etc, but if a pine marten gets caught you're technically in breach of the law. You're entitled to protect your birds, but you cannot prevent a Pine Marten from entering, even though its an offence.

As said its stupid.

homerhop

neighbouring club got wiped out by 2 legged vermin, pheasants, ducks and bantam hens all in one night.

arrowloopboy

This sounds all very sortable.

jap gt

homerhop wrote: »

neighbouring club got wiped out by 2 legged vermin, pheasants, ducks and bantam hens all in one night.

the worst vermin of all

Birdnuts

Ezridax wrote: »

Thats the stupid part.

You can set traps for mink, rats, etc, but if a pine marten gets caught you're technically in breach of the law. You're entitled to protect your birds, but you cannot prevent a Pine Marten from entering, even though its an offence.

As said its stupid.

A couple of people I know were in this situation and simply released them in a different area.

PS: TBH most NPWS rangers are reasonable people(the ones I met anyhow) and understand these things happen from time to time. Once the animal is unharmed I doubt much fuss would be made

Birdnuts

Tawny Owl wrote: »

One of the lads saw them

Very unusual to have 3 hanging around together since the adults are strictly solitary and usually do not tolerate other PM's in their territory. Did this happen in the middle of the day

PS: Sorry to hear of your loss:( - one way to keep PM's away from sensitive sites is to use the stuff you get for keeping dogs/pets off lawns. Its some kind of spray on repellant

Tawny Owl

The lads know there protected its just sad on all the hard work done and to know you can't do anything about it would the clubs insurance cover them for the loss or is it an act of God I know it's too late now or would anyone like to donate a bird or two help the stocks if you have to many

Cheers,

rambo87

A freind of mine has had his racing pigeons wiped out twice in the last 4 months by pine martins in Tipperary - theyre getting more common

CardBordWindow

Birdnuts wrote: »

Very unusual to have 3 hanging around together since the adults are strictly solitary and usually do not tolerate other PM's in their territory. Did this happen in the middle of the day

PS: Sorry to hear of your loss:( - one way to keep PM's away from sensitive sites is to use the stuff you get for keeping dogs/pets off lawns. Its some kind of spray on repellant

The only spray I use for dogs on my lawn is the type that sprays lead pellets!
But you can't use that on Pine Martens though....

Birdnuts

Got my bantams wiped out by mink the year before last - been working on vermin proof accomodation since in terms of designing something thats airtight at night. By airtight I mean in terms of not even a rat getting in - thankfully seems to be working up to now but still leave out the mink trap just to see whats knockin round;)

landkeeper

it's a pain in the arse with mink and pine martens about ,takes the fun out of keeping poultry .night time accomadation is easy enough, but! expensive 1/2" weldmesh should keep almost everything out , timber is useless where martens are concerned as they will chew through it in jig time ,day time attacks where birds are outside are rare enough, everyone i have spoken to that lost birds to a pm was at nightime .a release pen in woodland is nearly impossible to protect.
maybe it's time that the protection was rethought on troublesome individuals or at least compensation given for proven losses at least with a mink you can trap the beggar with a pm even if you find it in the act of slaughtering your stock you can't touch it utter madness if you ask me

blackstairsboy

Having big problems in my area also. Talk at the RGC meeting of lobbying the NPWS for a permit scheme to trap or shoot troublesome pine martins. Something like what can be obtained for some birds of prey or a section 42 for deer.

Tawny Owl

Yeh a lot of lads are saying there numbers are growing and I thing that's the problem there taking over now it's not a case where they are dying out they have just multiplied in numbers I suppose you could get a licence to catch them and relocate to another area but not sure on the law on this and then you need proof do you stay up all night with a camera.

Birdnuts

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Yeh a lot of lads are saying there numbers are growing and I thing that's the problem there taking over now it's not a case where they are dying out they have just multiplied in numbers I suppose you could get a licence to catch them and relocate to another area but not sure on the law on this and then you need proof do you stay up all night with a camera.

I assume they can be relocated if causing problems given that protected bat species are re-located all the time when old houses have to be demolished and the like - this is done in the presence of a NPWS ranger or somebody licenced to do same:)

Cass

blackstairsboy wrote: »

Having big problems in my area also. Talk at the RGC meeting of lobbying the NPWS for a permit scheme to trap or shoot troublesome pine martins. Something like what can be obtained for some birds of prey or a section 45 for deer.

They can be trapped and moved under license and supervision of an NPWS ranger, however the NPWS does not have the authority to grant section 42 for the controlled culling of Pine Martens as there is no season for them.

In other words as deer can be hunted during their season and under a section 42 out of season the NPWS can grant these. However the Pine Marten has NO SEASON and would require action from the Minister to allow any such cull.

Your only option is to trap and release elsewhere under the appropriate license and supervision.

Birdnuts

Ezridax wrote: »

They can be trapped and moved under license and supervision of an NPWS ranger, however the NPWS does not have the authority to grant section 42 for the controlled culling of Pine Martens as there is no season for them.

In other words as deer can be hunted during their season and under a section 42 out of season the NPWS can grant these. However the Pine Marten has NO SEASON and would require action from the Minister to allow any such cull.

Your only option is to trap and release elsewhere under the appropriate license and supervision.

I assume that is true for all protected species that are not officially listed as vermin or game with a season??

berettaman

http://www.ieem.net/docs/Ireland07MichaelCarey.pdf

Check out this link (pg 15). I heard a rumour that the pine martens had been re introduced by NPWS or some outfit like that. Rumour said they were being bred in Clare and they were released into the wild. A rare animal all of a sudden gets spotted in numerous places again? Unusual to say the least. Sorry to hear about the loss...

Birdnuts

berettaman wrote: »

http://www.ieem.net/docs/Ireland07MichaelCarey.pdf

Check out this link (pg 15). I heard a rumour that the pine martens had been re introduced by NPWS or some outfit like that. Rumour said they were being bred in Clare and they were released into the wild. A rare animal all of a sudden gets spotted in numerous places again? Unusual to say the least. Sorry to hear about the loss...

That rumour is false - its been well documented that they spread naturally from strongholds in Clare and the NW since they were given full protection in the 60's. Only in the last few years have numbers recovered to the point that the public have started seeing them occasionally. Interesting that your link highlights there possible role in curbing Grey squirrel numbers to the benefit of the native Red.

Tackleberrywho

I never saw a red Squirrel in the wild until last week, when I saw two :eek:.

I never saw a pine marten until last August 12 month , since then I have seen 5.

I'm no expert, but you have to wonder are they correct.

Birdnuts

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I never saw a red Squirrel in the wild until last week, when I saw two :eek:.

I never saw a pine marten until last August 12 month , since then I have seen 5.

.

That would back up the theory(referred to in the link above) that the spread of the Pine Martin is helping the native Red Squirrel to recover by removing the invasive American Grey squirrel from certain habitats:)

berettaman

I believe the pine marten is preying on the grey squirrel and I have no problems with that.(something to do with the grey not being agile enough to escape the pine marten). I thought the rumour was bogus too, birdnuts.. The person who told me runs a shoot and he is obsessive about vermin control...(No wife but he's at it night and day type of thing ).

He hadn't seen a pine marten in twenty years and the he saw three on his shoot in a week....he reckoned they had to be released...Anyway, If they are ever unprotected we just have to find that stronghold in Clare...:D

Tawny Owl

Sorry everyone I have just got more info on the Cock Pheasant kill in the local Club it was a Mink and not the Pine Marten as first tought so it pays to do a little reserch then take the action so little Pine martens out there sorry this time not you but I do know you are breeding so we do need to keep a check on these little critters and what area's they are seen in a lot more thanks.

Eddy Hill

Birdnuts wrote: »

That rumour is false - its been well documented that they spread naturally from strongholds in Clare and the NW since they were given full protection in the 60's. Only in the last few years have numbers recovered to the point that the public have started seeing them occasionally. Interesting that your link highlights there possible role in curbing Grey squirrel numbers to the benefit of the native Red.

The 'strongholds' (which I need to qualify as I do not have numbers only sightings and signs ) I knew about 1980s to early 1990s were in Clare (Dromore Wood was one ), S Galway ,
also around L Mask, one wood in Roscommon around west side of L Ree
and sightings on a shoot in the midlands .
P Marten are now widespread and have been for a few years
Check out
Biology.ie - the road kill survey section

Pine Marten are being reported (unfortunately found dead from vehicle collisions) all over the place


they were in Louth and Meath by the late 1990s



they are back with a bang :eek:

cavan shooter

Maybe we should follow the age old green approach and trap the pine martins neuter/spay them and release them back into their natural habbitat of the suburbs and cities where they can live in protected colonies and be fed by the local moonies :D