Household levy to be introduced next year-but...

danniemcq

Cabinet approves new household charge

26/07/2011 - 11:46:52
Sources have said that the Cabinet has approved new household charge to be payable from next year.

Details of the charge, which will be €100, will be announced later this afternoon.

It is expected a number of low-income households will be given a waiver from the charge.

Both the Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Environment Minister Phil Hogan had promised clarity on any household charge before the summer recess.

The service charge is to be a combined water and property tax and will be set in the region of €100 a year, until schemes for charging for water and a property tax are introduced.

The EU/IMF bailout dictates that an interim charge must be put in place for water, beginning next year.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cabinet-approves-new-household-charge-514267.html#ixzz1TD9akonn

so going by last Census figures thats..... € 146,229,600.00 (there are 1,462,292 houses in the 2006 census not 5.2 million)

How much of that will be used for good? 0? or nearly 0?

mackg

danniemcq wrote: »

so going by last Census figures thats..... € 521,140,400.00

How much of that will be used for good? 0? or nearly 0?

Will the majority be used for evil?:eek:

Liam Byrne

I said it when I heard his speech about the catholic church.

He'll come out all guns blazing about corruption and sickening activities beyond his control, but he won't act fairly or correctly when it comes to stuff that he could control.

What he said about the actions and inactions of the catholic church was valid and required.

Unfortunately he refuses to throw stones towards the glasshouse that is the political establishment.

Sign in for a committee and feck off, stealing the expenses ? No problem. Enda won't kick you out of the Dáil.

pragmatic1

Not surprising. Tough times ahead.

johngalway

How many people spend multiples of that €100 on utter sh1te during the year?

May have passed you by but the country is broke.

mackg

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I said it when I heard his speech about the catholic church.

He'll come out all guns blazing about corruption and sickening activities beyond his control, but he won't act fairly or correctly when it comes to stuff that he could control.

What he said about the actions and inactions of the catholic church was valid and required.

Unfortunately he refuses to throw stones towards the glasshouse that is the political establishment.

Sign in for a committee and feck off, stealing the expenses ? No problem. Enda won't kick you out of the Dáil.

What has that got to do with a water charge?

mackg

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Not surprising. Tough times ahead.

+1 we knew it was coming, the question is how does it compare to domestic water charges in other countries?

carefulnow100

This charge will lose any confidence that many people around the country had only slightly regained in the past month or two regarding money and governments.

Gracelessly Tom

danniemcq wrote: »

so going by last Census figures thats..... € 521,140,400.00

There ain't 5.2 million households in Ireland.

W.Shakes-Beer

johngalway wrote: »

How many people spend multiples of that €100 on utter sh1te during the year?

May have passed you by but the country is broke.

Agreed, it isn't an astronomical figure, about 27 cent a day, which I'm sure most households could afford. However I'd be skeptical as to how much of that money we'll "see back" in benefits.

Dermo

Everyone knew this was coming. Why are people surprised?
We are in a recession. It's €100. 1 less drink every 2 weeks.

whadabouchasir

Considering that a 500ml bottle of mineral water costs nearly €1 in a shop €100 euro a year for a few thousand litres doesn't sound too bad.

danniemcq

johngalway wrote: »

How many people spend multiples of that €100 on utter sh1te during the year?

May have passed you by but the country is broke.

Yeah and the way to get us back on our feet is by taking even more money off the people, meaning tighter budgets, less spending, less VAT so then Taxes are increased and new rates are introduced.

vicious circle that is not being tamed

ejmaztec

Dermo wrote: »

Everyone knew this was coming. Why are people surprised?
We are in a recession. It's €100. 1 less drink every 2 weeks.

If you give it up altogether, you can pay for the rest of us:P

shanered

What do you expect, you really thought that a politician like Enda wouldn't use a crisis for political gain, while being a hypocrite and protecting his own skin and that of his work collegues?
It makes him look like a great moral figure with brass balls when he stood up to the church, but unfortunitly we have swapped the church for the IMF these days, instead of Rome pulling the strings it will be Brussels.
Now he is going to wreck the lives of so many families, and destroy the quality of life of so many children. (Disabled)
Not sexually but financially rape every house hold in the country, this country is going to be plundered and we have a nod and get on with it mentality.
Its sad where we are going, but I believe are new master is going to affect us much more than the church did.

danniemcq

whadabouchasir wrote: »

Considering that a 500ml bottle of mineral water costs nearly €1 in a shop €100 euro a year for a few thousand litres doesn't sound too bad.

is our water pipes gonna be taken from a volcano in France? are they gonna be filetered though a million years of limestone??

Or is it gonna be collected in a big pond really as it is now pumped full of flouride that nobody wants and does nothing really and pumped though the same old pipes that will bust every time it gets a bit cold?

as big a con as bottled water is this is bigger

tbh

danniemcq wrote: »

Yeah and the way to get us back on our feet is by taking even more money off the people, meaning tighter budgets, less spending, less VAT so then Taxes are increased and new rates are introduced.

vicious circle that is not being tamed

how do you reduce the deficit without increasing taxation (taking money off the people) or cutting spending (taking money off the people)?

Serious question, Dannie - what would you do?

Dermo

shanered wrote: »

What do you expect, you really thought that a politician like Enda wouldn't use a crisis for political gain, while being a hypocrite and protecting his own skin and that of his work collegues?
It makes him look like a great moral figure with brass balls when he stood up to the church, but unfortunitly we have swapped the church for the IMF these days, instead of Rome pulling the strings it will be Brussels.
Now he is going to wreck the lives of so many families, and destroy the quality of life of so many children. (Disabled)
Not sexually but financially rape every house hold in the country, this country is going to be plundered and we have a nod and get on with it mentality.
Its sad where we are going, but I believe are new master is going to affect us much more than the church did.

so .... you aren't a glass half-full kinda guy?

johngalway

danniemcq wrote: »

Yeah and the way to get us back on our feet is by taking even more money off the people, meaning tighter budgets, less spending, less VAT so then Taxes are increased and new rates are introduced.

Yes, actually. along with job creation and reforms of existing structures.

Face reality, the party is over. We cannot afford our bills.

The alternative is to borrow more, which we can't do. So cuts there must be, along with reform and job creation.

danniemcq wrote: »

vicious circle that is not being tamed

Sorry, but the above line is an utter nonsense. We're in the worst financial crisis the country has ever faced and it's supposed to be cleared up in jig time? You are not dealing with the realities of the world.

We're living the saying:

"If your outgoings are more than your income, your upkeep with be your downfall".

Liam Byrne

mackg wrote: »

What has that got to do with a water charge?

Trying to rip more money from us without fixing what's being spent first. THEN if the country needs more money we can look at making up the ACTUAL deficit.

If your kid was wasting cash on junk and then complaining that they didn't have enough cash, would you give them more or would you tell them to stop wasting what they had FIRST and then come back to you if they were still strapped ?

Uriel.

shanered wrote: »

What do you expect, you really thought that a politician like Enda wouldn't use a crisis for political gain, while being a hypocrite and protecting his own skin and that of his work collegues?
It makes him look like a great moral figure with brass balls when he stood up to the church, but unfortunitly we have swapped the church for the IMF these days, instead of Rome pulling the strings it will be Brussels.
Now he is going to wreck the lives of so many families, and destroy the quality of life of so many children. (Disabled)
Not sexually but financially rape every house hold in the country, this country is going to be plundered and we have a nod and get on with it mentality.
Its sad where we are going, but I believe are new master is going to affect us much more than the church did.

Jebus,

when is your film coming out??? It will be entertaining I am sure....

.... dramatic much :rolleyes:

krudler

meh, its 2 quid a week, thats barely a bottle of ballygowan

squod

Already paying for it, can't afford anymore. If Enda wants to fund the water charges why doesn't he cut out pensions for pen pushers in the public service?

Enda is continuing the cosy cartel that operates between the government and the public sector who (lets face it) run the country for their own benefit. This water charge won't even cover the pension scheme of the top brass operating whatever new body (or old body) that runs the shaggin' water services!

Fuhk off Enda. What with bailing your mates bank out, wasting money on NAMA and doling out pension schemes to people who can afford their own....... we can't afford you!

whadabouchasir

danniemcq wrote: »

is our water pipes gonna be taken from a volcano in France? are they gonna be filetered though a million years of limestone??

Or is it gonna be collected in a big pond really as it is now pumped full of flouride that nobody wants and does nothing really and pumped though the same old pipes that will bust every time it gets a bit cold?

as big a con as bottled water is this is bigger

How is this a con?It costs the state about 1 billion a year to treat and supply water to households and you're complaining that you now have to pay for it, even though nearly every other country in the world also charges for it?Now I don't like having to hand over an extra 100e of my hard earned cash,but if there ever was something that was deserving of 100e it's the availability of plenty clean water in my house.

jc84

to be fair 100 euro isn't too much, considering almost every other country in the world has this kind of charge and costs a lot more too

conorhal

johngalway wrote: »

How many people spend multiples of that €100 on utter sh1te during the year?

May have passed you by but the country is broke.

God you're naive. A hundred euro ...on introduction. Do you really think that this will not be a rates based property tax brought in by the back door?
How long do you imagine it will take for this charge (like stamp duty did for example) to morph from a small payment into an annual % cost of your properties value?

Now I've no problem with rates, well not back when they used to pay for the provision of services by the CoCo like bin collection, water and maintainance, but the fact is you'll get nothing for this charge the same way that businesses get nothing for the exorbitant rates that they pay.
The excuse for this charge that will be offered, of course, will be the cost of water provision, but you'd be a loon to think that water metering won't be imposed in due course also.

As to the country being broke, I see a lot of fat to be trimmed before the government come looking to me for more cash.

jester77

mackg wrote: »

+1 we knew it was coming, the question is how does it compare to domestic water charges in other countries?

Looks cheap, I'm paying €22 a month in Germany for water in my apt. and I'm a light user. No one home during the day, shower in the morning, dishwasher twice a week, washing machine twice a week, don't drink tea/coffee and boil maybe 3 or 4 pots of water a week for potatoes/rice/pasta/etc.

syklops

shanered wrote: »

What do you expect, you really thought that a politician like Enda wouldn't use a crisis for political gain, while being a hypocrite and protecting his own skin and that of his work collegues?
It makes him look like a great moral figure with brass balls when he stood up to the church, but unfortunitly we have swapped the church for the IMF these days, instead of Rome pulling the strings it will be Brussels.
Now he is going to wreck the lives of so many families, and destroy the quality of life of so many children. (Disabled)
Not sexually but financially rape every house hold in the country, this country is going to be plundered and we have a nod and get on with it mentality.
Its sad where we are going, but I believe are new master is going to affect us much more than the church did.

Jesus over-react much? Its 27 cents a day. No kids will starve because of this. No families will be ruined.

As has been said before, you knew it was coming. Like it or not, for a lot of people it is one less night out, for others its one less drink every couple of weeks.

Also, they have said, people in low income families will be exempt.

mackg

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Trying to rip more money from us without fixing what's being spent first. THEN if the country needs more money we can look at making up the ACTUAL deficit.

If your kid was wasting cash on junk and then complaining that they didn't have enough cash, would you give them more or would you tell them to stop wasting what they had FIRST and then come back to you if they were still strapped ?

They have made cuts in expenses and we were eventually going to get a water charge, not saying the expenses couldn't be trimmed a little further but it's not like they are untouched.

johngalway

conorhal wrote: »

A hundred euro ...on introduction. Do you really think that this will not be rates brought in by the back door? And how long do you imagine it will take for this charge, like stamp duty did for example, to morph from a small payment into an annual % cost of your properties value?

Now I've no problem with rates, well not back when they used to pay for the provision of services by the CoCo, but the fact is you'll get nothing for this charge the same way that businesses get nothing for the exhorbitant rates that they pay.
The excuse for this charge that will be offered, of course, will be the cost of water provision, but you'd be a loon to think that water metering won't be imposed in due course also.

There's nothing special about the Irish that we shouldn't have to pay our way. Most other developed countries have these charges. Money into state coffers goes to pay for something. The something may not be a thing we like, but if it's got our name on the invoice, that's where it's at.

I pay a lot of things I don't like, that's life.

opinion guy

To be honest 100 a year for combined water charges and property taxes is ALOT less than I would have expected

Gracelessly Tom

jester77 wrote: »

Looks cheap, I'm paying €22 a month in Germany for water in my apt. and I'm a light user. No one home during the day, shower in the morning, dishwasher twice a week, washing machine twice a week, don't drink tea/coffee and boil maybe 3 or 4 pots of water a week for potatoes/rice/pasta/etc.

+1 I'm paying a hell of a lot more than 100 euro a year in water charges in France.

squod

jester77 wrote: »

Looks cheap, I'm paying €22 a month in Germany for water in my apt. and I'm a light user. No one home during the day, shower in the morning, dishwasher twice a week, washing machine twice a week, don't drink tea/coffee and boil maybe 3 or 4 pots of water a week for potatoes/rice/pasta/etc.

82m people in Germany. We're not short of water over here for the 5m of us. A bigger hole in the ground to store it and a streamlined system of governance of same would cost little.

If Enda wants to propose water charges in return for some quality assurance and process engineering in the PS or something, then fine. Otherwise he should be told where to go.

Liam Byrne

mackg wrote: »

They have made cuts in expenses and we were eventually going to get a water charge, not saying the expenses couldn't be trimmed a little further but it's not like they are untouched.

"A little further" ????

The Financial Regulator was on earlier suggesting that we should give the banks more to pass on to even more greedy bosses than the current shower.

NAMA is still running, costing a fortune.

Billions are still being given to gamblers who lost their money.

TDs still claim unvouched expenses.

Sort all that first, every wasted cent, and THEN come back to us if they haven't enough to get by.

Jesus Wept

Don't agree with a flat rate. I will flush the toilet round the clock to get my money's worth.

Einhard

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I said it when I heard his speech about the catholic church.

He'll come out all guns blazing about corruption and sickening activities beyond his control, but he won't act fairly or correctly when it comes to stuff that he could control.

]

Surely taxing the people of the country, to pay the bills of the country, whilst excluding the less well off, is acting fairly? Or does "fair" now mean, tax everyone else but not me?

Unfortunately he refuses to throw stones towards the glasshouse that is the political establishment.

He could do a lot more alright, but this government has done quite a bit already- reducing salaries, proposal to lower number of TDs, reducing expenses, ministerial cars etc. I'm not saying it's enough, but it's unfair to say that nothing has been done.

Sign in for a committee and feck off, stealing the expenses ? No problem. Enda won't kick you out of the Dáil.

Enda can't kick anyone out of the Dail. That's up to you and me.

shanered wrote: »

What do you expect, you really thought that a politician like Enda wouldn't use a crisis for political gain, while being a hypocrite and protecting his own skin and that of his work collegues?

Well, considering that this was well flagged before the election, he would have been a hypocrite for not introducing them.

Also, unless Kenny is gonna use the funds to enrich himself personally, I fail to see how this protects his own skin. If anything, an unpopular move like this will work against FG and Labour in the next elections.

It makes him look like a great moral figure with brass balls when he stood up to the church, but unfortunitly we have swapped the church for the IMF these days, instead of Rome pulling the strings it will be Brussels.

It's great that he's stood up to the Church; now he needs to stand up to those sections of Irish society who think we can spend and spend borrowed money, and never have to think of the consequences.

Now he is going to wreck the lives of so many families, and destroy the quality of life of so many children. (Disabled)

LOL, cue the melodramatics! Not just think of the children, but think of the children (DISABLED).

You sound like a bit of a hypocrite yourself to be honest. You moan about the lack of services for the poor disabled children, but then when the government seek to raise funds, which might go towards such services, you moan even more. You can't have it both ways.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Trying to rip more money from us without fixing what's being spent first. THEN if the country needs more money we can look at making up the ACTUAL deficit.

It's pretty obvious that, even taking all the waste into account, that this country needs extra revenues. Paying for a commodity that is charged in most other nations, and which has an environmantal benefit to boot, doesn;t seem all that unreasonable to me.

If your kid was wasting cash on junk and then complaining that they didn't have enough cash, would you give them more or would you tell them to stop wasting what they had FIRST and then come back to you if they were still strapped ?

Well unfortunately, the administration of a nation of 4 million people is just a teeny bit more complex than pocket money for teenagers.

excaliburhc

personally the issue isnt the cost of the increase but that it comes ontop of everything else - just more money going out for no return ,


if they at least made the effort to resolve the reason why expenditure outweighs income then fine
but after the universal social charge - the incredibly high price of fuel (bearing in mind govt gets roughly 75 % of cost) and the increase to motor tax that they are talking about , the high cost of goods / services and there just isnt the money to go round to pay for more and more and the fact that they announce this on the day they take their summer holidays , just sickening as far as i m concerned .

also when we have accepted the 100 € cost arent they then going to seperate the two out once the means to monitor are in place ? will cost remain 100 or increase ?

mikemac

opinion guy wrote: »

To be honest 100 a year for combined water charges and property taxes is ALOT less than I would have expected

It's just a starting rate.
They need to get the names and addresses and a database going.
Once this is sorted it'll be hiked up.

Much the same the 200 euro on holiday homes

And what about people who have their own well, they have to pay water charges to the council too?
There are many people in Ireland already paying for water

Monty Burnz

W.Shakes-Beer wrote: »

Agreed, it isn't an astronomical figure, about 27 cent a day, which I'm sure most households could afford. However I'd be skeptical as to how much of that money we'll "see back" in benefits.

We'll probably see nothing. The country is spending something like 15 billion euros per year more than we are taking in in tax revenue. There will be cuts and tax rises.

If anyone didn't see this coming, they have to be morons. And if you don't realise that there is a lot more of this to come, then you are beyond help. By all means, shout at the government - but this is the only solution. This is the real world, not the Fianna Failure fantasy world that the majority voted for for the last 15 years or whatever that landed us in this disaster in the first place.

johngalway

Monty Burnz wrote: »

We'll probably see nothing. The country is spending something like 15 billion euros per year more than we are taking in in tax revenue. There will be cuts and tax rises.

If anyone didn't see this coming, they have to be morons. And if you don't realise that there is a lot more of this to come, then you are beyond help. By all means, shout at the government - but this is the only solution. This is the real world, not the Fianna Failure fantasy world that the majority voted for for the last 15 years or whatever that landed us in this disaster in the first place.

Well said Monty.

johngalway

The-Rigger wrote: »

Don't agree with a flat rate. I will flush the toilet round the clock to get my money's worth.

Then, ah, we shall, ah, introduce a toilet flushing tax!

lastlaugh

People need to face reality and, stop whinging and cough up, 100 quid isn't that much.

If you stopped buying useless sh!t throughout the year, you wouldn't miss it.

If you are really smashed or on the scratcher there is a waiver.

Vicxas

Does this apply to rental properties too or just homeowners?

axer

squod wrote: »

82m people in Germany. We're not short of water over here for the 5m of us.

Ah, yes we are. Do you realise how much it costs to produce potable water?

NTMK

Is this water charge going to affect people who have their own private wells?

TheZohanS

I have to say I'm loving this new Fianna Gael party, it's such a big change from Fianna Fail. New party with new ideas and a fresh new way of looking at things.

They really have a handle on this blue sky thinking going forward, much better than the ideas that Fianna Fail had for getting us out of this mess.

I'm really impressed with Enda's new 4 year plan.

syklops

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"A little further" ????

The Financial Regulator was on earlier suggesting that we should give the banks more to pass on to even more greedy bosses than the current shower.

NAMA is still running, costing a fortune.

Billions are still being given to gamblers who lost their money.

TDs still claim unvouched expenses.

Sort all that first, every wasted cent, and THEN come back to us if they haven't enough to get by.

What happened to you Liam? You used to be the voice of reason in the Politics forum. I used to thank all your posts, because you always made sense, and looked at all sides of arguments. Recently, though you have taken to rants like above. There was another rant you went into on Politics a few days ago attacking Enda Kenny in FG, the day before they announced they had secured lower Interest rates on the bailout loan, and you still weren't happy. They also burnt junior bond holders netting a saving of about 5Bn, something which you were also giving out about them not doing the other day.

What happened that you turned from a calm, eloquent poster in Politics into bordering on hysterical on After Hours?

This is not a personal attack, this is an honest observation.

Fluorescence

So it's €100 a year flat rate for combined property and water tax? With exemptions for low income households?


Kenny's been very reasonable.

My name is URL

krudler wrote: »

meh, its 2 quid a week, thats barely a bottle of ballygowan

Is that 2 quid a week before or after the installation of meters in every home is taken into account?

I don't mind the idea of water charges if it means that people will conserve more than they do atm, but the timing of this whole thing is absurd.

the_syco

squod wrote: »

82m people in Germany. We're not short of water over here for the 5m of us.

Dublin is, however. They run out of water every so often as well.

Monty Burnz

fluorescence wrote: »

So it's €100 a year flat rate for combined property and water tax? With exemptions for low income households?


Kenny's been very reasonable.

It just means there will be other tax increases elsewhere. Everyone is going to get screwed, there's no point in pretending otherwise. And everyone who is hit with a tax will complain that someone else should have been taxed more. And everyone who suffers from cuts will complain that someone else should have been cut more.

It's a nightmare for the government - everything they are going to do from here on in will alienate someone. And the best they can hope for (if they do things fairly) is that they alienate everyone equally.