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New Household Tax - Boycott

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    #872
    john reilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭john reilly


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Yes, it was utterly presumptuous tosh from you. You know zip about my family and myself. That's why.
    Who is poor? Who is rich?
    I rest my case


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    #873
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Can we leave the personal posts aside. Nobody has anyway of knowing a persons background unless they've volunteered information, so it is frowned upon to make such presumptions because well, you end up with off topic, pointless back and forth tennis.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #874
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    I'm on Social welfare at the moment which will hopefully change soon enough. But anyway i have now payed my housing charge as I own my own house, and I have to say I am still paying many bills, have 2 kids and am struggling a bit at the moment, and have been for a while now.

    But in all fairness this country is in a mess and this money is going to have to be found somewhere, so out of the generous social welfare this state provides for us all I decided to pay my tax back.

    What gets me that so many other people refuse to pay, where the vast majority of them must be better off financially than I am at the moment...


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    #875
    mcwhirter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭mcwhirter


    Not condoning this, but I have heard it is possible to register properties using a false PPS number and false details. If so, then how many may have done this?


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    #876
    rasper
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭rasper


    djpbarry wrote: »
    john reilly wrote: »
    I agree fully that its lower to middle working people who have always and under the current goverment will always pay.
    How'd you figure that exactly? Someone working full-time in a minimum wage job in Ireland will pay just 3.4% of their income in tax.

    And how much in prsi and USC , bur that's not tax so don't count it


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    #877
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    rasper wrote: »
    And how much in prsi and USC , bur that's not tax so don't count it
    I'm including all deductions from gross income. Prior to the introduction of the USC, someone on the minimum wage would have paid virtually nothing in tax/social insurance.


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    #878
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    I'm on Social welfare at the moment which will hopefully change soon enough. But anyway i have now payed my housing charge as I own my own house, and I have to say I am still paying many bills, have 2 kids and am struggling a bit at the moment, and have been for a while now.

    But in all fairness this country is in a mess and this money is going to have to be found somewhere, so out of the generous social welfare this state provides for us all I decided to pay my tax back.

    What gets me that so many other people refuse to pay, where the vast majority of them must be better off financially than I am at the moment...

    Well said.


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    #879
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    mcwhirter wrote: »
    Not condoning this, but I have heard it is possible to register properties using a false PPS number and false details. If so, then how many may have done this?
    I presume its possible to make a deliberate error or even register someone elses property or even non existent property to screw up the system, because you are in effect creating the actual database.


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    #880
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    mcwhirter wrote: »
    Not condoning this, but I have heard it is possible to register properties using a false PPS number and false details. If so, then how many may have done this?
    Then they don't own them.


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    #881
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Icepick wrote: »
    Then they you don't own them.
    How so?

    Paying the property tax with a false PPS number (I would say it would be better to decline to offer your PPS number altogether) obviously does not alter the title of the property.


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    #882
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    later12 wrote: »
    How so?

    Paying the property tax with a false PPS number (I would say it would be better to decline to offer your PPS number altogether) obviously does not alter the title of the property.
    I wasn't talking about the property tax.


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    #883
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    later12 wrote: »
    How so?

    Paying the property tax with a false PPS number (I would say it would be better to decline to offer your PPS number altogether) obviously does not alter the title of the property.

    There was some genuine confusion as to whether one could register online without entering a pps no. According to the LGMA's Paul McSweeney speaking to PK on radio a couple of weeks ago, one could register without a PPS no, however afterwards a show researcher was unable to register without a PPS on foot of a foreign listner contacting the show to say that they had NO PPS no to start with...........

    It must be possible to circumvent on a paper application with a mix of guile and bad handwriting.


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    #884
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Icepick wrote: »
    I wasn't talking about the property tax.

    Thats what we're on about here.:)


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    #885
    nip102
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭nip102


    50% paid household charge? Yeah right government propaganda to apply false peer pressure, more like 25% if they say 50%. Let the protest continue!


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    #886
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    nip102 wrote: »
    50% paid household charge? Yeah right government propaganda to apply false peer pressure, more like 25% if they say 50%. Let the protest continue!

    More likely 30% registered for an exemption before you can even start counting.


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    #887
    Xenophile
    Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    This is just the beginning of broadening the tax base. Despite the many unforeseen difficulties by a government preoccupied with so many other issues this is a relative success in introducing a revenue source which is already established in so many other mature democracies.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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    #888
    Xenophile
    Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    The real bullies are the politicians who refused to help anxious constituents who for one reason or another wanted to register for either a waiver or pay the new household charge.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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    #889
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    Xenophile wrote: »
    This is just the beginning of broadening the tax base. Despite the many unforeseen difficulties by a government preoccupied with so many other issues this is a relative success in introducing a revenue source which is already established in so many other mature democracies.

    They should try some other salient features of mature democracies and jail the previous government.


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    #890
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    psychward wrote: »
    They should try some other salient features of mature democracies and jail the previous government.

    Interesting point.
    i'd have thought that jailing the previous government is almost anti-democracy, as it just leads to tit-for-tat reprisals until eventually some government decides that spending the next X years on trial isn't really their thing and that government-for-life-by-any-means-necesssary is the way to go?

    Accepting that the previous government did things different but that they had a mandate at the time is surely the sign of a 'mature democracy'?


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    #891
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    nip102 wrote: »
    50% paid household charge? Yeah right government propaganda to apply false peer pressure, more like 25% if they say 50%. Let the protest continue!
    psychward wrote: »
    More likely 30% registered for an exemption before you can even start counting.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you just pulled these figures out of the air?


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    #892
    nip102
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭nip102


    dvpower wrote: »
    nip102 wrote: »
    50% paid household charge? Yeah right government propaganda to apply false peer pressure, more like 25% if they say 50%. Let the protest continue!
    psychward wrote: »
    More likely 30% registered for an exemption before you can even start counting.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you just pulled these figures out of the air?

    Completely, is that not where government got 50% paid, massaging stats.


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    #893
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Interesting point.
    i'd have thought that jailing the previous government is almost anti-democracy, as it just leads to tit-for-tat reprisals until eventually some government decides that spending the next X years on trial isn't really their thing and that government-for-life-by-any-means-necesssary is the way to go?

    Accepting that the previous government did things different but that they had a mandate at the time is surely the sign of a 'mature democracy'?


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0328/1224314008364.html

    A snippet from the Irish Times:
    The reality is that the Garda Síochána has almost always seen itself in a hands-off position regarding the political establishment and, in particular, to whatever party may be in power. A garda would intrude into what has been regarded traditionally as the preserve of the politicians at their peril.


    Do the same things as a politician but not be a politician and see how long you would last. We don't have this mythical ''mature democracy'' spoken about and we won't until we do what the French did and Guillotine the scumbags who raped the state and now walk around with smirks on their faces.


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    #894
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    nip102 wrote: »
    50% paid household charge? Yeah right government propaganda to apply false peer pressure, more like 25% if they say 50%. Let the protest continue!
    psychward wrote: »
    More likely 30% registered for an exemption before you can even start counting.
    dvpower wrote: »
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you just pulled these figures out of the air?

    Can we get any sources or references for the 25% or 30%? If people are actually picking figures out of the air, it really lowers the standards and the thread just looks like conspiracy loony rantings about "Government propaganda".

    If the Government are massaging the stats, that is fair enough, but back it up with a reference or do some sums to show us where you are getting these figures.


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    #895
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,291 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    my deeds are in 2 names the household charge does not allow me to register correctly

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #896
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »
    Can we get any sources or references for the 25% or 30%? If people are actually picking figures out of the air, it really lowers the standards and the thread just looks like conspiracy loony rantings about "Government propaganda".

    If the Government are massaging the stats, that is fair enough, but back it up with a reference or do some sums to show us where you are getting these figures.
    The 25% and 30% figures are clearly just makey up. The government figure of something in the early to mid 50s was based on census based figures that put the number of liable households at 1.57m.
    Whatever about the accuracy of that figure, its fairly certain that the true figure is in the 50% region.


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    #897
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    psychward wrote: »
    They should try some other salient features of mature democracies and jail the previous government.

    Maybe we should also the jail the people who repeatedly elected them.


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    #898
    john reilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭john reilly


    meglome wrote: »
    Maybe we should also the jail the people who repeatedly elected them.
    yes a f.g led administration permantently in place would be an ideal solution. at least they would bring the unemployment rate down to zero. admittedly by halfing the population. there jobs iniative was agreat sucess. its just a pity they didnt admit it would be in a different country. i expect there next move to be discounted aerlingus tickets for anybody leaving the country


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    #899
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    I was being a little sarcastic as people seem to forget how Fianna Fail got into government. So if we're going to imprison the last government for doing pretty much what they told us they'd do perhaps we should hold those who gave them power responsible too.
    john reilly wrote: »
    yes a f.g led administration permantently in place would be an ideal solution. at least they would bring the unemployment rate down to zero. admittedly by halfing the population. there jobs iniative was agreat sucess. its just a pity they didnt admit it would be in a different country. i expect there next move to be discounted aerlingus tickets for anybody leaving the country

    Not sure I get the point of this.


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    #900
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    meglome wrote: »
    I was being a little sarcastic as people seem to forget how Fianna Fail got into government. So if we're going to imprison the last government for doing pretty much what they told us they'd do perhaps we should hold those who gave them power responsible too.



    Not sure I get the point of this.


    Excrement. No party ran on a platform of corruption and bankrupting the country. They at least made the effort to lie about it. Then until brought to court the FF government denied people in Donegal the right to elect a TD. The courts had to force them to do this one thing they were always obligated to do. They kept a dead mans grip onto power even though they were highly unpopular for the last few years of their incompetent economically illiterate administration.


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    #901
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    psychward wrote: »
    No party ran on a platform of corruption and bankrupting the country.
    FF ran on a platform of less taxing, more spending, which would inevitably leave the country in a mess once the property bubble burst. But of course, nobody wanted to believe that the value of their property would do anything other than climb inexorably upward, even though every economist with half a brain was screaming for years that the Irish property market was over-heated.


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