The Collection That dare not Speak Its Name

MedalFuhrer

Following on from the other themed threads I thought that I would start this one as I happened to have a few items of a simliar theme. Mostly happened upon or once gazed on, had to add them to my collection. I'll throw this up quickly and then add the descriptions etc. over the next day or so.

I only got back from Poland this week. My sister was with me and she secretly found a flea market with old men and women selling junk- from old shoes to old lamps. One old man had a number of Polish and German medals and insignias. It was my birthday so my sister wanted to buy me something so unknowns to me she bought me this brass plaque. It is quite heavy and finely cast.
I am not sure what it is to be honest. A memento sold in shops at the time perhaps?



Rear is hand stamped "Berlin 1940"


It is quite big and heavy. 1 Euro coin for reference:



WW2 Luftwaffe 4 Years Service medal.

MedalFuhrer

I happen across this badge 2 months ago. A badge from the 1933 Nuremburg rally. This is an imposing badge, a solid piece of bronze. Even before you pick it up you know that it carries weight. As you wear it you can feel it tugging at you and can understand why the pin was prone to breaking off under it's own weight. The original pin is intact on this one.
This badge was for the 5th national Nazi Party day at Nuremberg in 1933. Its design features an eagle with down turned wings holding a wreathed swastika in its talons above the skyline of the city of Nuremberg.





It is quite a large badge. A 1 Euro coin for reference.




A party badge in good condition (and not the "I am 21" type party badge....):





Cross of Honour of the German Mother in silver. Or simply called “the Mother’s Cross”.

Mothers would be awarded Bronze, Silver or Gold crosses depending on their output.
Bronze Mother’s Cross for the production of 4-5 children.
Silver Mother’s Cross for the production of 6-7 children.
Gold Mother’s Cross for the production of 8 children or more.





To me it is quite a sinister medal that is psychologically well thought out and designed. On first glance it looks like a crucifix which gives the image of goodness and protection. But then you note that Christ our Savior has been replaced by the Swastika. Subconsciously laying the seeds to replace God with the Nazi party who will then be our savior.

MedalFuhrer

This was a Christmas present from my sister last year:

Civil Service Faithful Service Medal in Silver for 25 Years of Service in original box.







Eastern Front medal in original packet:

MedalFuhrer

A second Eastern Front medal:






Iron Cross:





War Merit Cross, Second Class, Without Swords.:
“With swords” which was given to soldiers for exceptional service in battle above and beyond the call of duty (but not worthy of an Iron Cross which was more a bravery award),

And “without swords” for meritorious service behind the lines which could also be awarded to civilians.

HerrScheisse

That is quite an interesting batch you have there. I never gave much thought to the psychological design of the Mother's Cross but you do make an interesting point!

The Nuremburg Rally Badge, there is quite some history to that piece. It is not a piece that you come across as often as other rally badges. I do not think this badge was designed by Speer but the rally grounds certainly were.

Speer, as a young architect and new Party member was brought into Hitler's apartment with his proposal for the rally grounds design. It featured an enormous Reich eagle held aloft on woorden supports and momentous vertical flags surrounding the field.

Hitler put down his pistol which he was cleaning at the time, and approved the plans immediately. This event sparked the rise of Speer within the party, first as his personal architect and secondly as eventual armaments minister.

The 1933 rally was also important in that it symbolised the fall of Weimar and the rise of the Third reich, hence it was called the "Tag des Sieges" or Day of Victory.

Leni Riefenstahl did film this event, but it was her iconic film of the 1934 Rally that gained ineternational attention in "Triumph des Willens".

I'll dig up my collection and add to your theme thread.

HerrScheisse

PS I am not sure what that plaque is - perhaps some kind of patriotic memento?

Jagdtiger

Very nice collection!

MedalFuhrer wrote: »

On first glance it looks like a crucifix which gives the image of goodness and protection. But then you note that Christ our Savior has been replaced by the Swastika. Subconsciously laying the seeds to replace God with the Nazi party who will then be our savior.

Very interesting point, I always think of burial crosses when I see these, the higher the award the greater the potential sacrifice. Christ sacrificed himself for us as these mothers would have to sacrifice their children for the Reich.

Morlar

You have a very cool sister I have to say ! Some lovely pieces there.

kowloon

Picked up all three Soviet orders of maternal glory recently, don't collect German, but those mother's crosses I've seen about. Could be put in the same display. What kind of money do they go for from reasonable sources?

BlackEdelweiss

That is a nice collection and I especially like the plaque but may I say that I dont like the title you have chosen for this thread, it implies that there is something wrong with collecting this area of memorablia and that it should only be spoken of in hushed tones in darkened rooms. I know you say it in a light hearted manner but it plays along with the views of those who wanted this forum closed because it glorified Nazism.
Third Reich militaria is probably the most important area of modern militaria as it has had such an influence on the political and physical geography of the world today and the vast majority of those of us who collect in this area do so out of historical interest/amazement while we are also acutely aware of the terrible things that happened under the banner of the swastika.
As a medal collector you should be aware that many of these medals have a not so proud history, from what I remember you have many East German and Soviet WW2 medals, I would not class either of these as positive contributors to the human race either and in many ways I would class the Soviet actions in WW2 to be of a decidedly lower level that that of the Germans.
People who collect Third Reich militaria are constantly having to defend themselves from those who are not involved in or have no interest in historical research or memorabilia, we should not also have to defend ourselves from those in the community.
Once again, it is a nice collection and you seem to have a never ending supply of money and travel opportunities with which to expand your impressive collection which I must say makes me very jealous, good luck with it all.

MedalFuhrer

BlackEdelweiss I fully agree with everything that you said. The title was meant to be a satirical dig at the very people who started pointing fingers at this forum thinking that collectors talk in whispers about 3rd Reich items. We all know the sadistic crimes against the world but as you said this is such an important part of world, military and social history that it cannot be forgotten, and should never be. It would be a crime if it ever was pushed under the carpet and forgotten.
And yes I always think of the irony when people look at my East German, Polish Secret Police and USSR medals, all with blood and oppression on them too and yet they don't bat an eyelid. Okay a lesser to the Nazis but still...
Apologies if my black humour on the title is out of place.

MedalFuhrer

kowloon wrote: »

Picked up all three Soviet orders of maternal glory recently, don't collect German, but those mother's crosses I've seen about. Could be put in the same display. What kind of money do they go for from reasonable sources?

It depends on which class and if they are boxed and condition. My Silver one is in very good condition but minus it's box and certificate from Adolf so it cost be 40/45 yo-yos. Gold ones go for around 100. Boxed and certificate will increase the price. I haven't actually seen any bronze ones.

Morlar

MedalFuhrer wrote: »

I haven't actually seen any bronze ones.

I think I may have posted my bronze one before (massively overpaid for this !)





I believe there are also different pattern Mothers Crosses, I have definitely seen ones with different engraving on the back.

HerrScheisse

What about Tiananmen Square where the image of Chairman Mao hangs proud and people file by his tomb in reverence :eek:
According to wikipedia, 40-70 million people died under his reign, or the total casualties of WW2.

Enough jibber jabber - cast your beadies on mine :pac:

danpatjoe

HerrScheisse wrote: »

...
Enough jibber jabber - cast your beadies on mine :pac:

And sure, while we're at it, here's most of mine

Jagdtiger

danpatjoe wrote: »

And sure, while we're at it, here's most of mine

Save some for the rest of us...

MedalFuhrer

Danpatjoe- :-0 Wow! That is some collection! Amazing! Do a few close ups.

Herr Sheisse, you have some nice pieces there! Do some close up pics and explainations of each piece.

The Mothers Cross in bronze looks good.

Nice collections.

HerrScheisse

danpatjoe wrote: »

And sure, while we're at it, here's most of mine

Never in the field of human conflict, has so much been owned from so many by so few

HerrScheisse

MedalFuhrer wrote: »

Herr Sheisse, you have some nice pieces there! Do some close up pics and explainations of each piece.

In my photo I have the following, starting from the left column:

1/ Medal for the occupation of the Sudentenland.

2/ Ostmedaille for participation in Operation Barbarossa.

3/ NSDAP Party membership badge.

4/ Nuremburg Rally 1933 Badge. A hard piece to find and highly demanded.

5/ Schutzwall medal for the constuction of the Siegfried Line.

6/ SS Totenkopf - found by metal detector in Czech and resprayed for appearances sakeby the finder. Made of Cupal and still in great condition with original pins.

7/ WW2 Wound Badge in black.

8/ Iron Cross Second Class.

9/ Hitler Jugend dagger.

Thats it all!

Come on, get a posting of your entire themed collection, I know there are more lurkers out there :P

MedalFuhrer

Herr Scheisse, some nice close ups please!

HerrScheisse

Nah...too much effort....well...maybe... if some others post their collections up too!

Dr Strange

Nice. Will post mine but have to wait until end of August.

Judgement Day

Medals (especially Nazi ones) are one area of collecting that I've never touched - I always feel there's something morbid about about owning somebody's medals. I've always thought that the Germans had the smartest uniforms, medals etc in WWII but what they represented is what I can't deal with. Just a point of view and I could be accused of being a little hypocritical since I still have my mother's RAF cap badge and dog tags. Anyway, each to his own and some impressive looking stuff in this thread.

HerrScheisse

When I started collecting, I found it somewhat morbid to collect any medals since they most likely all come from dead people. I have a DDR collection including the ID card of the owner (I posted the medals but not his ID) and I found it spooky to look at the photo of the dead owner of the items. Pretty much any WW2 medal you have, the owner is likely dead, and certainly for any WW1 item. So in that aspect, all collecting is a little morbid.

MedalFuhrer

I am proud to have my Uncles RAF medals. He died not so long ago and was very close. It was a emotional day for my auntie as she gave them to me to mind. It is an honour to have them. Also her fathers Royal Navy medals from WW1. But I also collect 3rd medals as they are all part of WW2. But I always wonder who owned them? What type of man was he? What did he do to get them?.....

MedalFuhrer

HerrScheisse wrote: »

Nah...too much effort....well...maybe... if some others post their collections up too!

Don't be a lazy scheisse and photograph them. Use it as an excuse to cataloque them for yourself. The same to everyone. Stick up some nice close ups to see the detail.

kowloon

Have communist Id cards with photos in them of the guy in question during The GPW and a much later picture of him.

Was strange seeing someone age, and a shame that he either had nobody to inherit his medals or his family didn't think enough of them to keep them.

I'll make sure they're never split up. Not sure whether to post them up here or not.

kowloon

MedalFuhrer wrote: »

I am proud to have my Uncles RAF medals. He died not so long ago and was very close. It was a emotional day for my auntie as she gave them to me to mind. It is an honour to have them. Also her fathers Royal Navy medals from WW1. But I also collect 3rd medals as they are all part of WW2. But I always wonder who owned them? What type of man was he? What did he do to get them?.....

Have a friend whose grandfather won an award for crash landing his bomber and saving his crew bar one (He flew Stirlings and Wellingtons I believe).
Persuaded him of the importance of keeping them, hopefully he takes my advice and doesn't sell them on.

That is one serious collection danpatjoe, what is the one in the case top centre?

Jagdtiger

Here are some pictures of mine that will have to do until I get the time

to take better pics of everything. Some other stuff can be seen in my

Luftwaffe Clasp tread.

a) Naval Badges. Clockwise: Cloth German Cross in Gold, High Seas Fleet Badge (maker Schwerin Berlin), Mine Sweepers Badge (also given for sub chasing I believe), Blockade Runners Badge, Coastal Artillery Badge (maker FLL 43), Destroyer War Badge (maker also Schwerin).

b) Something I threw together for my Leaving cert to hold a few Iron Crosses (an unrealistic goal perhaps)

HerrScheisse

JagdTiger - you have the bling bling collection.

No shabby medals for you - all Luftwaffe clasps, 1813 Iron Cross, and Kriegsmarine Destroyer badges :eek:

And a cloth German Cross - never seen one of them yet.

HerrScheisse

kowloon wrote: »

Have communist Id cards with photos in them of the guy in question during The GPW and a much later picture of him.

Was strange seeing someone age, and a shame that he either had nobody to inherit his medals or his family didn't think enough of them to keep them.

I'll make sure they're never split up. Not sure whether to post them up here or not.

Why not post them up - if not on this thread, then another? I'm sure lots on here are interested to see them.

Jagdtiger

HerrScheisse wrote: »

JagdTiger - you have the bling bling collection.

No shabby medals for you - all Luftwaffe clasps, 1813 Iron Cross, and Kriegsmarine Destroyer badges :eek:

And a cloth German Cross - never seen one of them yet.

Cheers HerrScheisse

I wish it was an 1813 Iron Cross, sadly it's just a '57 Knights Cross (which I also wish was an '39 KC) filling up all that empty space under 1813...

kowloon

HerrScheisse wrote: »

Why not post them up - if not on this thread, then another? I'm sure lots on here are interested to see them.

Might have to figure out how to use the camera right, is there a knack to photographing medals? My photos don't come out as good as the ones here.

MedalFuhrer

kowloon wrote: »

Might have to figure out how to use the camera right, is there a knack to photographing medals? My photos don't come out as good as the ones here.

Yes medals are quite hard to photograph. Don't go into close with the camera. I keep the camera a bit out and then trim off the excess part of the photo with editing software. Also photograph them in the day time so you don't need to use the flash. Unless you have an external flash/ DSLR camera etc.

Nice collection!

Judgement Day

Just posted this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73546677&postcount=125 something to go with all the medals perchance?

phaethon

danpatjoe wrote: »

And sure, while we're at it, here's most of mine

Not bad for a start:D
















































Just kidding! Amazing set of EKs. What makers to you have regarding WW1 crosses...:rolleyes:

danpatjoe

phaethon wrote: »

....What makers to you have regarding WW1 crosses...:rolleyes:

Thanks for the kind words.

The 1939 crosses are all different makers - most (if not all) of the known PKZ numbers are there, as well as some of the rarer variants.

The Imperial crosses are (as memory serves, but I may have missed some):

1870:

A-type with 25 year spange (combatant)
A-type (combatant)
A-type (non-combatant)

I'm also eagerly waiting on the delivery of an 1870 B-type with Jubiläumsbandspange (25th Anniversary spange) and (a questionable) Weiderholungsspange (1914 bar to the 1870 cross)

1914:

KO (with 1939 L/11 spange)
KO (x2 mounted)
G
MFH
Fr.
Fr.
WILM
CD 800
KAG
S-W
WS
Unmarked one piece (Otto Schickle?)

&

this unusual oddity - a solid brass EK with very unusual features - the crown appears to be the French Napoleonic crown and the dates and oakleaves are very small in comparison to a standard EK.
Stephen Previtera shows one very similar in "The Iron Time" and comments that it may have been a propaganda piece.
Whatever it is, I like having it, purely as an unusual EK related puzzle.

(Apologies for the badly lit, yellow hue photographs)





And the page from 'The Iron Time':





Thanks to everyone for the kind comments, and it's great to see all the collections being posted here. Keep them coming!

phaethon

Again, amazing stuff what you have there!;)

As a new imperial collector, I have always wanted to get an example 1870 2nd class and 1914 1st and 2nd class but because they are always in the market, haven't bothered. However I love to follow up EK study threads on the forums and admire all these beutiful EK focused collections - just stunning award!

Thanks for sheering!:cool:

kowloon

The Soviet equivalent of the German motherhood crosses: The Order of Maternal Glory, classes I, II and III. There are medals below these which I'll have to fish out. Still haven't figured out how to get the camera right, need to find the manual.

HerrScheisse

MedalFuhrer wrote: »

Yes medals are quite hard to photograph. Don't go into close with the camera. I keep the camera a bit out and then trim off the excess part of the photo with editing software. Also photograph them in the day time so you don't need to use the flash. Unless you have an external flash/ DSLR camera etc.

Nice collection!

Nice tip! I tried it!

Here is a close up of the wound badge in black with maker mark L/16.

kowloon

Definately going to figure out the camera tomorrow, it's become a matter of honour.

HerrScheisse

And some close ups of the Sudetenland Medal:

HerrScheisse

kowloon wrote: »

Definately going to figure out the camera tomorrow, it's become a matter of honour.

The Order of Motherhood picture worked quite well!

Jagdtiger

a) Italo-German Campaign Medal in Africa, an Italian award which was given
to German soldiers who fought in North Africa.

b) Court mounted Sudetenland Medal with Prague Bar, court mounted 4 Year
Long Service Medal Army/Navy.

c) General Assault Badge, retaining factory finish and paper rapper
(A late-war piece which most likely never even left the factory.
Possibly from one of the recent hoard finds).

kowloon

Two more Soviet, very Soviet awards.

The Order of the Badge of Honour and the Order of Glory 3rd class

Jagdtiger

Soviet Enameling looks sexy!

What would be a fair price for an Order of Glory 3rd class, I've being meaning to get one for a long time now?

Jagdtiger

Double post

kowloon

Jagdtiger wrote: »

Soviet Enameling looks sexy!

What would be a fair price for an Order of Glory 3rd class, I've being meaning to get one for a long time now?

I'm not entirely sure, I bought mine 6/7 years ago.
They variation has a huge effect on the price, I've seen common variations on sale for under $100 and rarer ones for over $1000, for the 3rd class, but I haven't been shopping around.
Some come with the research.

kowloon

Orders of the Great Patriotic War 1st and 2nd class

HerrScheisse

Very nice badges - I have a second class one but I later discovered it was part of the 40th Jubilee edition.

kowloon

HerrScheisse wrote: »

Very nice badges - I have a second class one but I later discovered it was part of the 40th Jubilee edition.

Both of the above are 1985 issues. I have older issues too but those one are shinier
Only have screwbacks though, the rarer ones are the ones with the rectangle shaped suspension. Would love to pick up one but it's low on the list of priorities.
Would like to finish off my collection of campaign medals first and I have a real itch to get myself an Iron Cross, have wanted one since I started collecting and this thread has only gone and made it worse.
Danpatjoe, if you're interested I'll swap you that table of Iron Crosses for my highly prized 1939-1945 star. I'll even throw in a jiffy bag to keep it safe.