Property Market in Waterford

jayboi

I wonder could we get a decent discussion going on the property situation in the city.

Does anyone have any insight into what the property market is like in the city at the moment?
Will prices continue to drop this year? Are houses selling?
Is it a good time to buy or should people hold off? Whats the rental market like? Are there a lot of houses on the market? etc

dayshah

I consider the Daft rental reports to be very informative, particularly about rental yields (years rent/price).

The rental yield for a 1-bed is about 7%, which is about what we would expect, and 6% for a 2-bed. Now there could be a quality difference between what's put out to rent and what's for sale, which could explain why that yield is just a little bit low.

But, for 3 beds its 4.8%, meaning we'd expect 3-beds to come down another 15% (maybe a bit less if there is a quality difference as I said above). A lot of 3-beds might be targetted at students, so not in the fanciest part of town.

4-beds have a yield of 3.4% suggesting they need to half in price, but I suspect the quality still has a role to play. That said, I'd still expect big drops for 4-beds.

wellboytoo

jayboi wrote: »

I wonder could we get a decent discussion going on the property situation in the city.

Does anyone have any insight into what the property market is like in the city at the moment?
Will prices continue to drop this year? Are houses selling?
Is it a good time to buy or should people hold off? Whats the rental market like? Are there a lot of houses on the market? etc

There are a small number of sales going on, mainly sub 200k and and priced to sell,will prices continue to drop?probably even though in most cases they are under cost at this stage, and that is todays cost not three years ago.
Buy if you see a prperty you want that suits you, there possibly will never be a better time. Waterford is unusual in that most of the over supply of houses is north of the river, ferrybank , Rockenham etc, which will continue to drive down prices in this area, rest of City not as badly affected, except maybe Logloss, Rental property is still doing well in the housing end, prices have dropped a bit but big demand still, would rather have full blown AIDs than an apartment in some areas of the City though!
No money available from banks to buy except Bank of Ireland, so your fine if with them or cash in hand.
That's my trupence halpenny worth.

Finnbar01

The problem I have with buying a house now is the interest rates. I would not be surprised to see double digit interest rates coming down the road in the medium - long term.

wellboytoo

Finnbar01 wrote: »

The problem I have with buying a house now is the interest rates. I would not be surprised to see double digit interest rates coming down the road in the medium - long term.

You got it in one, that's everybody's problem, no confidence in the market, so no one wants to take a chance,

Finnbar01

wellboytoo wrote: »

You got it in one, that's everybody's problem, no confidence in the market, so no one wants to take a chance,

And the reason why there's no confidence in the market is because the government and EU are dithering.

gman2k

Finnbar01 wrote: »

The problem I have with buying a house now is the interest rates. I would not be surprised to see double digit interest rates coming down the road in the medium - long term.

Only if we are to leave the Euro. Which is equally as likely IMO.

reni10

If people in Waterford want to actually sell their houses then they need to be much more realistic with their pricing!
There are some real shockers out there in regards to prices people are still putting on some houses and they sit there for months and years without anyone even showing a bit of interest!

People need to face it that you are not going to get €250k for a 3 bed semi on the Dunmore Road anymore!(and it should never really have been that price ever but that is another story!)
And the idiot real estate agents telling people that they will get those prices is even worse!

Realistically I think at the moment a 3 bed semi on the Dunmore Road is only really worth about €125k with a 3 bed detached maybe pushing to €150k.

Anything above these prices will simply not sell and I think within 12 months we will see these prices drop about another 10% due to higher mortgage interest rates, high unemployment in Waterford and uncertainty about Ireland remaining in the Euro.

Simple message to anyone out there now trying to sell is if you really want to sell set the price at a realistic level otherwise don't even think about it!

dayshah

reni10 wrote: »

Simple message to anyone out there now trying to sell is if you really want to sell set the price at a realistic level otherwise don't even think about it!

Yeah, you hear people complaining, oh it takes a long time to sell.

Slash the price and it will sell faster.

ziedth

We bought 3 Bed Terraced house with a huge garden out in Stradbally for €120k with about €7k we put into carpets/paint/labour and a few appliances.

Now, Mortgage repayments on it aren't much more then what we would rent a similar property for so the value dropping a bit wouldn't really worry me. I would personally hold off if I were looking at €200k+ properties as the prices aren't going to go up but could still drop.

Allot of bargins out there from what I see.

wellboytoo

reni10 wrote: »

Realistically I think at the moment a 3 bed semi on the Dunmore Road is only really worth about €125k with a 3 bed detached maybe pushing to €150k.

That is about the size of it, and all they were ever worth!

gman2k

ziedth wrote: »

Allot of bargins out there from what I see.

There is no property market to speak of, so the concept of bargain or value has no true meaning.
People need to stop thinking about property prices of the Tiger era and creating 'value concepts' based on same.
As Dayshah pointed out above, property value based relative to rent yields is the only correct way to ascertain true value based on international parallels.

Unfortunately Ireland's economy is in freefall at the moment, and is likely to get a lot worse before it gets better. This is impacting disproportionately on the property market, allayed to the fact there is no credit available.
When a property is selling at a price lower than it would cost to build the same property, that's when you know the sh1t has hit the fan. (And that's excluding site value/cost)
Where this will have a major impact over the coming years will be in one off developments, as the cost of construction is getting higher due to more onerous regulatory conditions such as insulation, renewables, carbon reduction, airtightness etc.

dayshah

ziedth wrote: »

We bought 3 Bed Terraced house with a huge garden out in Stradbally for €120k with about €7k we put into carpets/paint/labour and a few appliances.

Now, Mortgage repayments on it aren't much more then what we would rent a similar property for so the value dropping a bit wouldn't really worry me. I would personally hold off if I were looking at €200k+ properties as the prices aren't going to go up but could still drop.

Allot of bargins out there from what I see.

Yeah, if you're just looking for a generic 'house' its worth holding off. But if you find something special that really suits you (eg you want to live close to parents, a gaelscoil, or just found a really special house) that house mightn't be around in a years time, so it could definitely be worth the plunge.

reni10

What really gets to me lately is the supposed real estate agents in Waterford!

People are going to them and saying I want to sell me 3 bed semi and I want €250k for it and the estate agents seems to be quiet happy to put it on the market for that price even though they must know more then anyone that it will just never sell at that price!

The estate agents need to be having a very simple conversation with people when they are selling their houses saying if they put it on the market for €250k it will not sell so put it on at €140K and then take an offer of €125k for it and you will sell it.

Some agents seem to be either in denial or are just trying to scam the sellers!

wellboytoo

reni10 wrote: »

What really gets to me lately is the supposed real estate agents in Waterford!

People are going to them and saying I want to sell me 3 bed semi and I want €250k for it and the estate agents seems to be quiet happy to put it on the market for that price even though they must know more then anyone that it will just never sell at that price!

The estate agents need to be having a very simple conversation with people when they are selling their houses saying if they put it on the market for €250k it will not sell so put it on at €140K and then take an offer of €125k for it and you will sell it.

Some agents seem to be either in denial or are just trying to scam the sellers!

I don't agree with that statement, people themselves have Celtic tiger prices in their heads, and NO amount of talking to them will dissuade them, you will get"so and so is willing to put it in his window at x", houses will sell if they are priced to sell, i.e. under 180k for a very good three bed.
Remember 4% of nothing is still nothing, so the estate agent wants it to move .

ziedth

gman2k wrote: »

There is no property market to speak of, so the concept of bargain or value has no true meaning.
People need to stop thinking about property prices of the Tiger era and creating 'value concepts' based on same.
As Dayshah pointed out above, property value based relative to rent yields is the only correct way to ascertain true value based on international parallels.

Unfortunately Ireland's economy is in freefall at the moment, and is likely to get a lot worse before it gets better. This is impacting disproportionately on the property market, allayed to the fact there is no credit available.
When a property is selling at a price lower than it would cost to build the same property, that's when you know the sh1t has hit the fan. (And that's excluding site value/cost)
Where this will have a major impact over the coming years will be in one off developments, as the cost of construction is getting higher due to more onerous regulatory conditions such as insulation, renewables, carbon reduction, airtightness etc.

You are 100% correct but your missing my point. I don't mean a bargain in the sense of the propert is worth X and your paying Y. I'll give an example:

A house on my row has gone up for sale (they are very old houses but most have been done up at some point) that is 4 Bed with a lovely garden, mod kitchen the works. Rumor has it he'll take over anything €100k for it. now, if you and you partner both had good jobs it wouldn't be crazy to say that you could have it paid off in 10/15 years. That's not half bad in my book. If the value of the house is anywhere near 100k then your laughing.

seanybiker

ziedth wrote: »

, mod kitchen.

Is that where yourself sully and that other fella go for tea and a chinwag?

200motels

gman2k wrote: »

Only if we are to leave the Euro. Which is equally as likely IMO.

According to Jim Power on the 6 1 news it's only a matter of time and we'll be back to the punt.

dayshah

200motels wrote: »

According to Jim Power on the 6 1 news it's only a matter of time and we'll be back to the punt.

Jim Power says a lot of things.

Remember the shift to the Euro? It took 6 months. Add to that the time to print the notes and mint the coins. It would take several months to do that, plenty of time for a bank run.

The government would be nuts to make such a move. It has all the disadvantages of default, but none of the advantages.

If the government said we going to the punt, the chaos will mean that we use shotgun shells and tinned food for currency. Only strong countries like Germany can pull out, but again, it would take them months to do it.

reni10

Don't want to single any people out but here are 2 very recent examples where people are just being totally unrealistic with their prices and the Real Estate Agents don't seem too bothered with them putting these up at about €100k above what they are worth:

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=603465
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=603302

These will NEVER sell at this price!

Hoffmans

recent auction two bran new 4 bed detached houses in clover meadows went for 110k & 117k ,also 3 bed apartment in town centre went for 53k

so what for all that old stock up on daft definitely overpriced by 30-50% still....

reni10

Hoffmans wrote: »

so what for all that old stock up on daft definitely overpriced by 30-50% still....

Those 2 x 4 Bedroom Detached houses in Clover Meadows went for €95k and €110k in the recent Allsop auction:
http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=738&MP=24&ID=738000023&S=L&O=A
http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=738&MP=24&ID=738000033&S=L&O=A

People in Waterford still don't seem to get it in terms of how much their property is now worth, I think some sellers think there are lots of extremely rich cashed up idiots in Waterford that are going to buy their house that is only worth €120k for €250k!

My opinion is that the Real Estate Agents in Waterford are as much to blame for this as well, they just need to tell people out straight it will not sell at €250k so I am not even interested in wasting my time talking to you about it.

I think a fair estimate today for anyone selling your typical 3 bed semi on somewhere like the Dunmore road is put it on for €140k and then you will get offers at around €100k-€110k but the minute someone offers €120k sell straight away and get the hell out of there!

If the Real Estate agents are not telling people this then all these properties will just still be on the market worth less then €120k in about 6 months time!

Time to wake up Waterford Real Estate Agents and Sellers!

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

Jim Power says a lot of things.

Remember the shift to the Euro? It took 6 months. Add to that the time to print the notes and mint the coins. It would take several months to do that, plenty of time for a bank run.

The government would be nuts to make such a move. It has all the disadvantages of default, but none of the advantages.

If the government said we going to the punt, the chaos will mean that we use shotgun shells and tinned food for currency. Only strong countries like Germany can pull out, but again, it would take them months to do it.

Not neccessarily so. The government could be doing all the work in secret. Then change over say midnight on a sunday and take control of the banks and put in place capital controls.

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Not neccessarily so. The government could be doing all the work in secret. Then change over say midnight on a sunday and take control of the banks and put in place capital controls.

They can put in place capital controls which would help. But do you remember the transition to the Euro?

It was a major operation. You can't keep a secret from that many people. First you'd have to print all the new money, very hard to do in secret. You have to make all the coins. You have to distribute all the cash to the banks. Word would get out very easily.

It would be far far simpler to just put capital controls in place, and say we won't pay back the bank bondholders. It would be a hell of a lot simpler.

However, the likes of Jim Power don't sell books or make TV appearances based on boring economic arguments. They try spice it up.

In fairness to Jim Power he is far from the worst. I feckin' hate Eddie Hobbes.

Bards

reni10 wrote: »

Those 2 x 4 Bedroom Detached houses in Clover Meadows went for €95k and €110k in the recent Allsop auction:
http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=738&MP=24&ID=738000023&S=L&O=A
http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=738&MP=24&ID=738000033&S=L&O=A

Don't know if I could trust that site when it doesn't know where Waterford is Located.

"Waterford is located on the south-east coast of Ireland on the banks for the River Barrow which connects to the Irish Sea through Waterford Harbour"

reni10

Bards wrote: »

Don't know if I could trust that site when it doesn't know where Waterford is Located.

"Waterford is located on the south-east coast of Ireland on the banks for the River Barrow which connects to the Irish Sea through Waterford Harbour"

Those properties could be argued as actually being located in Co.Kilkenny too!

Either way they still sold the houses...

jayboi

Came across this http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=604095
I wonder whats its really worth or the still some sort of market of the more exclusive type propertys in town

dayshah

jayboi wrote: »

Came across this http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=604095
I wonder whats its really worth or the still some sort of market of the more exclusive type propertys in town

Way overpriced. If 100,000 to 125,000 is a fair price for a 3-bed semi, you could buy 4 or 5 of those houses, or that single house.

reni10

jayboi wrote: »

Came across this http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=604095
I wonder whats its really worth or the still some sort of market of the more exclusive type propertys in town

It is worth no more then about €220k, another delusional seller and real estate agent in Waterford!

It really amazes me that people still think they can sell for that type of money, whatever the property was worth in 2007 take about 60-70% off it and you will get the actual value today.

Also these houses are going down everyday that passes so if you are serious about selling and someone makes you an offer anywhere over €100k for your standard 3 bed semi you should take the arm an all off em:)

I think by this time next year we will see 3 bed semis going for less then €100k and then the market will stabilise at around that figure for a while.

Nolanger

Any ghost estates near Waterford city?

dayshah

Nolanger wrote: »

Any ghost estates near Waterford city?

Not really. Some near Ferrybank but they aren't too bad. Nothing like in Longford with inhabited houses next to half built ones.

jayboi

Nolanger wrote: »

Any ghost estates near Waterford city?

Would any of the estates on carrickpherish road be classified as a ghost estate

Paige Turner

reni10 wrote: »

Don't want to single any people out but here are 2 very recent examples where people are just being totally unrealistic with their prices and the Real Estate Agents don't seem too bothered with them putting these up at about €100k above what they are worth:

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=603465

These will NEVER sell at this price!

Same housing estate, few doors up and they are looking for nearly double, crazy!

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=346279

Could never imagine that house reaching E439,000.

thomasm

Paige Turner wrote: »

reni10 wrote: »

Don't want to single any people out but here are 2 very recent examples where people are just being totally unrealistic with their prices and the Real Estate Agents don't seem too bothered with them putting these up at about €100k above what they are worth:

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=603465

These will NEVER sell at this price!

Same housing estate, few doors up and they are looking for nearly double, crazy!

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=346279

Could never imagine that house reaching E439,000.

Must be sitting on an oil well

dayshah

jayboi wrote: »

Would any of the estates on carrickpherish road be classified as a ghost estate

Not really, they have all been finished off and have people living there. They might be a bit underpopulated, but then you have lots of vacant houses in Lismore park when the students leave.

I'd say once the price is right all the houses will be occupied. Eg, you might have single people who will afford a 3 bed semi rather than live in a flat. None of the housing estates in Waterford are in a fundamentally bad location, unlike the ones in Longford.

reni10

Paige Turner wrote: »

Same housing estate, few doors up and they are looking for nearly double, crazy!

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=346279

Could never imagine that house reaching E439,000.

That is a real shocker!!!! What are these people thinking???

They are waiting for an even bigger idiot then they seem to be if they think they will ever sell that for €439k!

That house is worth max €160k and in 6 months will be worth about €20k less.

How out of touch are some people? And what in all seriousness did the real estate agent say to them when they said they want to sell for that type of money?

dayshah

reni10 wrote: »

How out of touch are some people? And what in all seriousness did the real estate agent say to them when they said they want to sell for that type of money?

I wonder if there is some sort of accounting trickery going on? Like if you sell for the realistic price do you lose some tax break? Or if you right down the value of your property, might you lose the ability to get an overdraft?

I just can't understand how someone would expect over €400,000 for a fairly normal (though nice) house.

What is the build quality in Bishopsfield?


If anyone wants a laugh, look at this.
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=275809

€220,000 for a 1 bed apartment, prob worth €50,000. Same auctioneer (griffin) as the €439k bishopsfield house.

reni10

dayshah wrote: »

€220,000 for a 1 bed apartment, prob worth €50,000. Same auctioneer (griffin) as the €439k bishopsfield house.

Yeah this is exactly what I am talking about with the Real Estate agents!

I really have no idea what they are playing at?
Unless they are just total and utter imbeciles they can't really think these properties will sell for anywhere near that!

Here is one of the worst I have seen:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=588652

€310k for a 2 bedroom apartment!!!!

And have a look at the magnificent single picture that the Real Estate Agent posted up on Daft.ie!
You must be absolutely insane to let this agent list your property in that state for that price...

Hopefully with the downturn in property sales this will actually get rid of the real idiot real estate agents as they are doing no one any good especially the people they are supposed to be helping to sell their property and then let the good ones who are doing the right thing prosper...

ziedth

I wonder is it a case of the people selling are in dreamland. Like he/she might have bought that 2-bed in the height of the boom and unwilling to believe that they got it so wrong.

Like the estate agents make what? 8% commission? 8% of nothing is allot less then 8% of the 120k that it's worth.

Birdfood

Estate agents fees are usually max 2.5% , percentage usually lower for high value sales but very few of these going on anywhere.

dayshah

reni10 wrote: »

And have a look at the magnificent single picture that the Real Estate Agent posted up on Daft.ie!

Actually I spent a bit of time looking on Daft for a place to rent. Its amazing the photos that people put up, I mean photos where the apartment is a complete mess, and with dirty plates in the sink. You'd think they'd try tidy up a bit before taking a photo.

gobo99

reni10 wrote: »

Here is one of the worst I have seen:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=588652

€310k for a 2 bedroom apartment!!!!

And have a look at the magnificent single picture that the Real Estate Agent posted up on Daft.ie!
You must be absolutely insane to let this agent list your property in that state for that price...

Lovely place to live as long as ya dont mind the odd armed stand off on the roof.

reni10

gobo99 wrote: »

Lovely place to live as long as ya dont mind the odd armed stand off on the roof.

It seems to be worth about €250k more then all the others and now I know why:)

What a ridiculous price to put on a 2 bed apartment.

Bards

reni10 wrote: »

It seems to be worth about €250k more then all the others and now I know why:)

What a ridiculous price to put on a 2 bed apartment.

It's not called daft.ie for nothing

merlante

I'd say with the current lack of certainty in terms of interest rates, the currency, national bankruptcy, etc., and with properties still somewhat overvalued, you'd want to be looking at yields of over 9% at the very least. Also, you'd want to be happy living there for 10 yrs. If it's in town, there will probably always be a market of some description, and worse case scenario, you can walk to everything if you can't afford car insurance/tax/fuel anymore... Personally I wouldn't buy a place in the near future that couldn't be rented out easily if need be.

dayshah

merlante wrote: »

I'd say with the current lack of certainty in terms of interest rates, the currency, national bankruptcy, etc., and with properties still somewhat overvalued, you'd want to be looking at yields of over 9% at the very least. Also, you'd want to be happy living there for 10 yrs. If it's in town, there will probably always be a market of some description, and worse case scenario, you can walk to everything if you can't afford car insurance/tax/fuel anymore... Personally I wouldn't buy a place in the near future that couldn't be rented out easily if need be.

Yeah, there'll always be a market for houses in the centre. I'm not sure about some of the apartments though. Where will the money come from for their general upkeep? I think a lot of them will become tenements.

Even at the height of the boom €300k for an apartment was nuts, when you could get a decent house for €250k, and even the 'suburbs' like Lismore Park or Viewmount are within walking distance of the centre.

Hoffmans

so generally prices in waterford have sunk 45-60% to more realistic levels...

people say in the boom ? what boom it was a false economy and the top dogs/scum knew it ...........

so for the newly married couple with a young toddler who bought the 3 bed semi for say 260k in some nice just above middle class neighbourhood
are now still paying the banksters round a grand a month for the gaff thats now worth say 140k...why?

well because the media spin (banks get tough on lenders) tells them they have to? no they dont! lenders must now get tough on banks!
after all the guys who lost big to the banks owing billions didnt get foreclosed ,they get 200k a year from nama for it.....

reni10

Another day another house for sale at a ludicrous price on Daft.ie:

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=604503

Advertised for €285k!!! - It is worth no more then €150-€160k!

What are these people and the so called real estate agents thinking???

And this is what is written in the stupid description by an obviously imbecile agent:
"This property would be an excellent starter home"
Yeah right when you can actually get a starter home for less than €100k at the moment!
It is idiots like this that also played a big hand in creating the trouble Ireland is now in with their stupid valuations and greed!

It will never sell for that price... Some people will just never learn!

spookwoman

Don't know how they can charge those price on the dunmore road! Should only be going for 60 to70k. Know one estate where the radiators are crap in all the houses and are starting to burst. Windows are cheap and dont close properly. No sound insulation and you can hear neighbours through the walls. Dogs constantly barking all over the estate. Gardens turn to swamps.

reni10

spookwoman wrote: »

Don't know how they can charge those price on the dunmore road! Should only be going for 60 to70k.

I think by January we will see the standard 3 bed semi on the Dunmore road stabilise at just under €100k.(Probably be advertised for €99,000)
Then it will stay like that for a year or two with 3 bed detached houses out there coming down to about €120K and 4 bed detached coming down to about €140k - €150k.
Anyone who has a house that they want to sell now will viciously deny that the above prices are possible but this is the reality that they need to face!

I heard an interesting quote from someone recently that desperately wants to sell their 3 bed semi on the Dunmore road, they were told it was only realistically worth €120k now! They then said they would prefer to burn it then sell it for that price!
This comes from a person who bought it for about €75k originally!

People like this seem to be born and stay stupid forever and the bank will eventually take this house from them and they will be left with nothing.

dayshah

reni10 wrote: »

I heard an interesting quote from someone recently that desperately wants to sell their 3 bed semi on the Dunmore road, they were told it was only realistically worth €120k now! They then said they would prefer to burn it then sell it for that price!
This comes from a person who bought it for about €75k originally!

That's nuts. Some people also forget that if you want to move home, the house you'll move into will also be cheaper, so its only a problem if you are in negative equity.