Fork & Brake query

bikefan123

Hi all,

I'm looking to spec a hardtail and have a couple of questions on comparison of the fork and brakes, for moderate trail use, nothing too extreme.

The two bikes I'm looking at are the Cube Team & Cube Race. Price diff. is only ~€100, so choice is to spend some extra now for higher spec components or not.

To do that, I just want to understand the differences, hence my query.

Internet not helping, as the websites give quite general details, not ones specific to thes emodels, so hard to decipher what exactly is provided.

What I personally think is that the Fox forks tend to be high spec, so possibly only for advanced bikers, otherwise wasted money. Also Fox meant to be mucher higehr maintenance wise also, dunno if this is true.

Race has
fork = Fox 32 F100 RL ALPS OB, 100mm, Lockout
brakes = Formula RX hydr. discbrake (180/160mm)

Team has
fork = Rock Shox Reba RL 100mm, Motion Control, PopLoc
brakes = Hayes Stroker Ryde hydr. discbrake (180/160mm)

Both are air forks with same travel (100mm), lockout, some level of rebound adjustment (unsure how much)

Regarding brakes, they are same size, just different brands. Presume comparison here is just personal experiences, as a brake is a brake...

Anyone able to enlighten me on above, thanks

Lemag

I have the RockShox Reba RL on my mtb. My previous mtb had a Manitou fork I can't compare the RockShox to Fox but even if you intend your bike for moderate trail use it could take quite a pounding. I'd go for reliability/lower maintenance option. My brakes are Avid Elixir 3 so I'm not in a position to comment on the one's which you've listed. They'll probably all do the job so it might come down more so to which levers feel more comfortable to use.

adrianshanahan

Buy the Race, and a brake is not just a brake!

Icyseanfitz

adrianshanahan wrote: »

Buy the Race, and a brake is not just a brake!

this is so true, my elixer 5's have been nothing but trouble from when i installed them until right now :mad:

triggermortis

I'd go for the race.

look at bikeradar.com for reviews of each bit of kit and see what suits you or gets a better write up, or look at the customer reviews on chain reactions web site

adrianshanahan

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

this is so true, my elixer 5's have been nothing but trouble from when i installed them until right now :mad:

I have to say Avid would be my brakes of choice, did you get them second hand or try bleed them yourslef poorly?

Tenzor07

If you have to buy a CUBE then go for the one with the Fox forks, much
easier to live with then the fiddly Dual-air system, and plusher feeling too..

Formula brakes are fairly bling looking and get good reviews..

Hayes are good also but often seen on more trail orientated bikes...

As for Avid Elixr's they are some of the best brakes on the market, esp.the ones with the Taberbore technology...

Lemag

adrianshanahan wrote: »

and a brake is not just a brake!

Fair enough. If this was in response to my post then I'll apologise for my clumsy wording. I meant to express that each of the brakes mentioned would do the job.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

my elixer 5's have been nothing but trouble from when i installed them until right now :mad:

You must be the unluckiest rider on the planet, Icyseanfitz:( As adrianshanahan asked, did you install them yourself? This could be the source of your problems. The only adjustment that I've had to make with my brakes are to sort out rotor rub - easily done. Besides this I've had to have one of the brakes bled after a friend inadvertantly released the brake fluid. I had this taken care of in a shop. That brake has been a bit "spongy" since but I'd blame the shop mechanic for this.

I actually had Hayes brakes before. Not Stroker Ryde though. They seemed fine however I only had the bike for a short while and sold it on before testing it out in any trying conditions.

OP, by how much would those Cubes be setting you back?

bikefan123

Thanks all for the feedback.

So am I right in saying that rumour that Fox forks require more maintenance is untrue, as I woudl prefer one that needs minimal maintenance in biek shop etc.

Lemag wrote: »

OP, by how much would those Cubes be setting you back?

Shop price is €1300 for the Race, €1180 for the Team, however hope to get maybe a a 10% discount on that.

Tenzor07

Every suspension fork requires maintenance, though for a bit of light trail use and commuting then that will extend out the time before you have to get them serviced....keep the stanchions clean and wipe any grime off the top of the seals regularly to avoid any unnecessary wear and tear..

Icyseanfitz

Lemag wrote: »

Fair enough. If this was in response to my post then I'll apologise for my clumsy wording. I meant to express that each of the brakes mentioned would do the job.

You must be the unluckiest rider on the planet, Icyseanfitz:( As adrianshanahan asked, did you install them yourself? This could be the source of your problems. The only adjustment that I've had to make with my brakes are to sort out rotor rub - easily done. Besides this I've had to have one of the brakes bled after a friend inadvertantly released the brake fluid. I had this taken care of in a shop. That brake has been a bit "spongy" since but I'd blame the shop mechanic for this.

I actually had Hayes brakes before. Not Stroker Ryde though. They seemed fine however I only had the bike for a short while and sold it on before testing it out in any trying conditions.

OP, by how much would those Cubes be setting you back?

tell me about it installed them myself but tbh they arnt a hard thing to install as they come pre bled (never bled them myself), i was getting an awful sound coming my front one yesterday (not rub) and i fixed it by tightening the qr on the front wheel , as for the rear it has always been trouble, went through a long phase of it constantly rubbing the is mount.....dont know how i fixed that one haha

on my new xc bike i have FORMULA RX brakes and while they have no rotor rub they make a god awful noise under braking, before all these i had 2 pairs of juicy threes on my first bike and i had a fair share of trouble with them as well, and to think ive only been properly biking since xmas

adrianshanahan

Icyseanfitz,


I say this in the nicest way possible but it seems tha the common denominator in this and all your bike woes to date seems to be your own bike mechinical skills or lack there of.

Save your self the heart ache and money in the long run and get someone else to work on your bike for you.

I dread to see the day you post up about servicing your own forks

Adrian

xxyyzz

I have Formula RX on my Cube and they are bloody good. They look the business also. From the reviews I've seen they seem to be preferred over Hayes Stroker Ryde although I've never used those so I can't compare. They are noisy I'll admit but effective. One thing I've noticed is that if I have had the bike turned upside down for maintenance for any length of time they lose power and take a good while to come back. I reckon this is down to air bubbles in the fluid floating to the brake reservoir.

Icyseanfitz

adrianshanahan wrote: »

Icyseanfitz,


I say this in the nicest way possible but it seems tha the common denominator in this and all your bike woes to date seems to be your own bike mechinical skills or lack there of.

Save your self the heart ache and money in the long run and get someone else to work on your bike for you.

I dread to see the day you post up about servicing your own forks

Adrian

im actually fairly handy these days, at the start i had no idea what i was at though (reason for juicy three problems ), the reason for a rear rotor to be rubbing an IS mount has confounded everyone ive asked though, ive come to the conclusion that the place on the rear triangle where the mount attaches to is too wide and is/was pushing the mount into the rotor.

as for fork servicing il learn how to eventually, i dont mind making little mistakes here and there thats how you learn, a big problem with me though is that i notice every little thing thats wrong with a bike, every little squeak or noise or play its an annoying way to be

Icyseanfitz

xxyyzz wrote: »

I have Formula RX on my Cube and they are bloody good. They look the business also. From the reviews I've seen they seem to be preferred over Hayes Stroker Ryde although I've never used those so I can't compare. They are noisy I'll admit but effective. One thing I've noticed is that if I have had the bike turned upside down for maintenance for any length of time they lose power and take a good while to come back. I reckon this is down to air bubbles in the fluid floating to the brake reservoir.

yours are noisy too? the amount of people ive nearly given heart attacks to with them is scary haha

Lemag

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

im actually fairly handy these days, at the start i had no idea what i was at though (reason for juicy three problems )

Fair play to you Icyseanfitz. You don't take anything to heart.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

the reason for a rear rotor to be rubbing an IS mount has confounded everyone ive asked though

TBH, the cause of rotor rub should be one of the easier things to diagnose. You've probably asked the wrong people.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

i was getting an awful sound coming my front one yesterday (not rub) and i fixed it by tightening the qr on the front wheel ,

Sounds like rotor rub but not due the alignment of the brake pads. If tightening the QR solved this problem for you then this suggests that your wheel wasn't in properly and the rotor, therefore, was not parallel to the brake pads.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

as for the rear it has always been trouble, went through a long phase of it constantly rubbing the is mount.....dont know how i fixed that one haha

Maybe because it has now worn down the pad which it was rubbing up against?

bikefan123 wrote: »

Shop price is €1300 for the Race, €1180 for the Team, however hope to get maybe a a 10% discount on that.

Would you be open to suggestions of other bike choice options?

Icyseanfitz

Lemag wrote: »

Fair play to you Icyseanfitz. You don't take anything to heart.TBH, the cause of rotor rub should be one of the easier things to diagnose. You've probably asked the wrong people.

Sounds like rotor rub but not due the alignment of the brake pads. If tightening the QR solved this problem for you then this suggests that your wheel wasn't in properly and the rotor, therefore, was not parallel to the brake pads.
Maybe because it has now worn down the pad which it was rubbing up against?
Would you be open to suggestions of other bike choice options?

the rear wasnt just rubbing the pads (which im well used of fixing via loosening the cps bolts and either doing the pull brake and tighten yoke or just doing it visually until i can see light on either side of the rotor) it was actually rubbing the black IS mount, and filing a rotor shape into it while it was at it

yeah i figure that weird noise i get from the front every now and then while under heavy pedaling is due to the QR not being tight enough,

im slowly learning how everything on my bikes work via all these problems so i dont really mind them

bikefan123

Lemag wrote: »

Would you be open to suggestions of other bike choice options?

always open to suggetsions on other bikes

I'm using a cycle to work scheme, so can't use websites like Canyon / CRC / Wiggle etc, so does limit shoices somewhat.

Icyseanfitz

also tc sorry for hijacking this topic with my s***

Lemag

bikefan123 wrote: »

I'm using a cycle to work scheme, so can't use websites like Canyon / CRC / Wiggle etc, so does limit shoices somewhat.

Has your employer imposed this restriction? If not then there is no reason why you can't get the bike online. I was actually going to suggest the Canyon. I bought one through the cycle to work scheme.

bikefan123

Lemag wrote: »

Has your employer imposed this restriction? If not then there is no reason why you can't get the bike online. I was actually going to suggest the Canyon. I bought one through the cycle to work scheme.

yeah, work is using one of the bike schemes who impose the limitiations (www.bikes4work.ie)

Lemag

bikefan123 wrote: »

yeah, work is using one of the bike schemes who impose the limitiations (www.bikes4work.ie)

Bummer! Both of those Cubes look very nice though. They also have different wheels, btw. I'm not very well informed on the MTB wheel market so can't help you out there. If you're just starting out I'd suggest that you go with the cheaper of the two. Once you surpass the €1000 threshold you'd no longer be getting the tax break on whatever is spent above it so you might not be seeing the same value for money. Also, if you're just starting out (and even if you're not) you probably wouldn't be able to notice any difference in performance between of those two bikes.

bikefan123

Lemag wrote: »

Bummer! Both of those Cubes look very nice though. They also have different wheels, btw. I'm not very well informed on the MTB wheel market so can't help you out there. If you're just starting out I'd suggest that you go with the cheaper of the two. Once you surpass the €1000 threshold you'd no longer be getting the tax break on whatever is spent above it so you might not be seeing the same value for money. Also, if you're just starting out (and even if you're not) you probably wouldn't be able to notice any difference in performance between of those two bikes.

thanks for the feedback. YEah, those facitatiove companies are leeches really, taking ~10% commission for every bike sold. Comany doesn;t care as no paperwork for them it's just their employees (i.e. me) getting rode, as coudl demand that 10% off price from retailers if no middlemen involved.

yeah more or less starting out, just doing the due diligence as don't want to be kicking myself in a few months saying why didn't I spend the extra €100.
I doubt I'll ever really get beyond a recreational MTB user. I had the feeling that both the bikes were good - more than adequate for my needs, with the more expensive one obviously having slightly better/lighter parts, I just want to ensure I get best bang for buck so futrepoofed to an extent etc

Hmmzis

In case you will be using the bike also on the road for any reasonable distances (even regular commuting to work) you might want to consider getting some cheap and cheerful road slicks. They're usually a lot less than the knobies and you'll be able to put a lot more mileage on them (on tarmac that is) due to their much harder rubber compound.

Both of the bikes you are looking at have Schwalbe tires and from what I know they have quite a soft rubber compound on them that wears out quite fast on tarmac. At least that's what was happening to my Smart Sams. Keep the knobies for the trails, I'd say .

The road slicks will provide you with less rolling resistance on tarmac and since they're usually much lighter than knobies also the acceleration will be better.
Just don't go crazy on the size and get something in the 1.5" class, not sure if there are 2" slicks available. You can get 1.25" ones and run them at 100psi but the ride will be very hard (especially with the lockout on, my back is not happy about it). I've no idea how the roadies can handle 700/23s at 120psi.

Lemag

bikefan123 wrote: »

thanks for the feedback. YEah, those facitatiove companies are leeches really, taking ~10% commission for every bike sold. Comany doesn;t care as no paperwork for them it's just their employees (i.e. me) getting rode, as coudl demand that 10% off price from retailers if no middlemen involved.

And the kicker is.. there is no paper work (besides writing a cheque and perhaps filling out a Payment Advice slip). I was lucky enough to be in a small company so I was able to explain to our accountants how the scheme work and how to administer it. Hence I got the Canyon.

Hmmzis wrote: »

In case you will be using the bike also on the road for any reasonable distances (even regular commuting to work) you might want to consider getting some cheap and cheerful road slicks.

Changing tyres is a PITA. If you were to go for the cheaper Cube you could put the money saved towards another set of wheels, cassette(with the same sized largest sprocket), rotors, and slicks. Could do it for less than €200 minus the difference between the two bikes. Swapping out wheels is much less hassle than swapping out tyres.

Hmmzis wrote: »

I've no idea how the roadies can handle 700/23s at 120psi.

I'd never have mine pumped up that high. About 110psi at the back. Padded shorts, padded gloves, comfy bar tape, and lots of carbon bits..

Waesfjord

Lemag wrote: »

And the kicker is.. there is no paper work (besides writing a cheque and perhaps filling out a Payment Advice slip).

only in Ireland...:rolleyes:

Lemag wrote: »

Changing tyres is a PITA. If you were to go for the cheaper Cube you could put the money saved towards another set of wheels, cassette(with the same sized largest sprocket), rotors, and slicks. Could do it for less than €200 minus the difference between the two bikes. Swapping out wheels is much less hassle than swapping out tyres.I'd never have mine pumped up that high. About 110psi at the back. Padded shorts, padded gloves, comfy bar tape, and lots of carbon bits..

Funnily enough when a previous poster mentioned about tyre changes, I though the same, changing tyres just seems like awful hassle, especially if doing fairly frequently. If spare wheel, then much quicker/easier change out (I'm lazy that way)!!

To spec spare wheels for a bike, do you need to match the same brake disk type to that one wheel purchased or does brake disk diameter only matter?
For rear wheel, you need the rear cogs - the largest sprocket in back is strongest gear, so need to ensure that diameter is no bigger as will break chain I presume? -

Is it not best to just get same cassette size (i.e. same # of sprockets) as on original wheel also, so identical set-up, rear derailler woudl be set-up for that type cassette size?

Lemag

brian1976 wrote: »

To spec spare wheels for a bike, do you need to match the same brake disk type to that one wheel purchased or does brake disk diameter only matter?

The disc diameter would have to be the same unless you wanted to reset your brakes every time you same out the wheels. The wheels would need to allow for a rotor to be fitted. Not all MTB wheels do. I've never swapped out any rotors but they might need to be specifically compatible with the wheel also.

brian1976 wrote: »

For rear wheel, you need the rear cogs - the largest sprocket in back is strongest gear, so need to ensure that diameter is no bigger as will break chain I presume? -

The largest sprocket is the one to take into account when sizing your chain. If both cassettes had the same size largest sprocket then there'd be no need to swap out the chain with each wheel swap. Both cassettes would need to have the same number of sprockets also i.e. both be 10 speed, 9 speed, etc.

brian1976 wrote: »

Is it not best to just get same cassette size (i.e. same # of sprockets) as on original wheel also, so identical set-up, rear derailler woudl be set-up for that type cassette size?

I think that I've answered this above

bikefan123

so a pair of wheels like these for €100 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=40567

a pair of rotors (€36) and rear cassette (€45) that match those on bike, a tyre and tube (€20) and hey presto?

so bang on for €200 for a pair of road wheels. good to know thanks.

iwo

Hi All, would u recommend some Irish shop for the pump for rock shox Reba rl ? I'm totally new to air suspension and don't know how to pump this thing, I'm looking for cheap option...I spent enough so far...

adrianshanahan

iwo wrote: »

Hi All, would u recommend some Irish shop for the pump for rock shox Reba rl ? I'm totally new to air suspension and don't know how to pump this thing, I'm looking for cheap option...I spent enough so far...

As in a shock pump?

Most bike shops that stock mountain bikes should stock these or Halfords stock them.

They should not be too expensive.

iwo

adrianshanahan wrote: »

As in a shock pump?

Most bike shops that stock mountain bikes should stock these or Halfords stock them.

They should not be too expensive.

Thanks, so there is no specific pump for each make or something like that right? Does this thing pump as well as measure the pressure or there are some versions which check the pressure only an I would have to use for example car pump if you know what I mean...Thanks again.

adrianshanahan

Yea for the most part shock pumps are fairly generic, they can vary massivly in cost some are better than others but they will all more or less the the exact same thing.

Halfords have these ones for €30, they are fine and will last.

Be sure no to put too much air in your shock and that manfactures guidelines are just that a guide, make sure you see what suits your style of riding adn how you like your bike to 'feel'

If you bought your bike in a shop I would be most surprised if they would not set your shock up for you if you just drop into them.

Adrian

iwo

Perfect, thanks!!

Tenzor07

Set the shock psi for your weight taking into account cycle clothing/backpack weights not for what you weigh on the scales 1st thing in the morning..

iwo

Yes, going back to shop would be good idea but I bought it in Dublin and live in gorey and I'm too lazy to get there...I will but this thing soon and set up the shock ASAP. It is hard at the moment after releasing it. I hope that shop prepared this for me when I got it...I got cube ltd. Thanks guys for good suggestions!

xxyyzz

My rockshox have a sticker on the back with the suggested pressure for your weight. Start with that and then fine tune to your preference. The Halfords pump lets a little air out when you unscrew it so give it a little more air than you intend.