Fed up as cyclists as public enemy #1

monument

Who here really thinks cyclists break the law more than others?

Anybody answering 'yes', how brainwashed are you?

You really think cyclists break more lights than pedestrians? Or do you honestly think it's only a tiny percent of motorists who speed, park on footpaths, block ped crossings, tailgate, don't indicate, have no care around cyclists or pedestrians, hold their phones when driving, block advance stop lines and cycle lanes?

Many motorists and cyclists do many of the same wrong things like not yielding for pedestrians at side roads or not slowing down when people cross away from traffic lights.

Don't get me wrong here, as both a cyclist and a pedestrian (often with a baby), I get pissed off with poor cyclling which endangers and it is a problem, but anybody who thinks cyclists are somehow byfar the worst lawbreakers needs to think again.

liam7831

PAY SOME ROAD TAX

Bunnyhopper

liam7831 wrote: »

PAY SOME ROAD TAX

Please tell me that this is a joke....

monument

liam7831 wrote: »

PAY SOME ROAD TAX

I would if I could find any tax called "road tax," but there's no such thing.

And, as for motor tax, I already pay tax to fill my bike's motor with fuel. Cyclists likely pay more tax on fuel than electric car owners. :pac:

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Please tell me that this is a joke....

Did you not hear the new law? It says once you pay tax you can break more laws...

doozerie

monument wrote: »

Don't get me wrong here, as both a cyclist and a pedestrian (often with a baby), I get pissed off with poor cyclling which endangers and it is a problem, but anybody who thinks cyclists are somehow byfar the worst lawbreakers needs to think again.

You are falling into the same narrow mindset of some journalists discussed here recently who adopt this attitude from the perspective of motorists or pedestrians. It really doesn't matter a ****e who are the "worst" lawbreakers between cyclists, motorists, and pedestrians. It's a pointless argument and achieves nothing. What matters is that lots of people believe it perfectly acceptable to make up their own rules of the road as they go along regardless of its impact on others. And discussions of whether other road user groups are worse than them seems to have the effect of supporting such idiotic actions on the basis that their actions are somehow not as bad.

If we want to be taken seriously as road users, and presumably we all do, lets drop this ****e of comparing ourselves against motorists and moaning that they deserve more grief because they are "worse than us". It has no place in a rational discussion, it just fuels argument and entrenchment of extreme views.

Dermot Illogical

liam7831 wrote: »

PAY SOME ROAD TAX

It's called motor tax. Go away and think about it for a while.

monument

doozerie wrote: »

You are falling into the same narrow mindset of some journalists discussed here recently who adopt this attitude from the perspective of motorists or pedestrians. It really doesn't matter a ****e who are the "worst" lawbreakers between cyclists, motorists, and pedestrians. It's a pointless argument and achieves nothing. What matters is that lots of people believe it perfectly acceptable to make up their own rules of the road as they go along regardless of its impact on others. And discussions of whether other road user groups are worse than them seems to have the effect of supporting such idiotic actions on the basis that their actions are somehow not as bad.

If we want to be taken seriously as road users, and presumably we all do, lets drop this ****e of comparing ourselves against motorists and moaning that they deserve more grief because they are "worse than us". It has no place in a rational discussion, it just fuels argument and entrenchment of extreme views.

It matters when the incorrect idea that cyclists break the law more becomes an idea that is nearly unquestionable in many people's mind.

It matters because many people in all groups -- cyclist, pedestrian, and motorist -- break the law often when they think it's ok to or when they think they'll get away with it. But cyclists are being singled out.

doozerie

liam7831 wrote: »

PAY SOME ROAD TAX

I already pay motor tax, and have been doing so for a few years now. I think you need a new argument. Or a hug.

doozerie

monument wrote: »

It matters when the incorrect idea that cyclists break the law more becomes an idea that is nearly unquestionable in many people's mind.

It matters because many people in all groups -- cyclist, pedestrian, and motorist -- break the law often when they think it's ok to or when they think they'll get away with it. But cyclists are being singled out.

Do you really think that the most effective response to cyclists being singled out is to single motorists out instead? Really?

I agree with you that some people have a very misguided view of the source of problems on the road, but I disagree on how that should be tackled. Education is the key thing - as one example I think it would be of huge benefit to get more motorists out on bikes, and more cyclists into cars for that matter, to give people a better appreciation of other road users and the effect on them of various actions. Pointing the finger at motorists and saying "you are the real problem" will not encourage anyone to be more open minded, it'll more likely have exactly the opposite effect.

Kensington

A very reasoned and balanced poll I see!

While cyclists continue to ignore basic rules like red lights and road signs, then they are going to continue to be singled out as law breakers. Running red lights is the single biggest and most obvious instance of law breaking I see on the roads going to and from work and the vast majority of those doing it are cyclists I'm afraid.

Not stereotyping, brush tarring, bandwagon hopping etc. etc., just simple observation by myself every single weekday.

monument

doozerie wrote: »

Do you really think that the most effective response to cyclists being singled out is to single motorists out instead? Really?...

Where "single out" motorists?

Or where did I say motorists "are the real problem"? Some days, cyclists are far more problematic for me when walking or on the bike. As I said in my OP: I get pissed off with poor cycling.

Lumen

Lazy generalisations are lazy.

monument

Kensington wrote: »

A very reasoned and balanced poll I see!

While cyclists continue to ignore basic rules like red lights and road signs, then they are going to continue to be singled out as law breakers. Running red lights is the single biggest and most obvious instance of law breaking I see on the roads going to and from work and the vast majority of those doing it are cyclists I'm afraid.

Not stereotyping, brush tarring, bandwagon hopping etc. etc., just simple observation by myself every single weekday.

All road users break basic rules every day of the week:

• Motorists speed every day of the week.
• Motorists block ped crossing and advance stop lines every day of the week.
• Motorists break traffic lights on orange and red phases every day of the week.
• Pedestrians jaywalk at or beside traffic lights on mass every day of the week.
• Pedestrians walk on front of cars and bicycles without looking every day of the week.

You're bias if you think cyclists are the only ones.

The poll is a bit of messing btw

doozerie

monument wrote: »

Where "single out" motorists?

Or where did I say motorists "are the real problem"? Some days, cyclists are far more problematic for me when walking or on the bike. As I said in my OP: I get pissed off with poor cycling.

Okay, what are you saying then 'cos I'm lost.

As regards lawbreaking generally: Do cyclists break the law? Yes, regularly. Do motorists break the law? Yes, regularly. Do pedestrians break the law? Yes, regularly. Who is the worst group? Who cares.

mal1

In regards urban cycling, cyclists break the rules and put themselves at risk, drivers break the rules and put others at risk. That's the main reason I don't understand why cyclists are so careless.

I wouldn't even rise to the road tax comment.

monument

doozerie wrote: »

Okay, what are you saying then 'cos I'm lost.

As regards lawbreaking generally: Do cyclists break the law? Yes, regularly. Do motorists break the law? Yes, regularly. Do pedestrians break the law? Yes, regularly. Who is the worst group? Who cares.

I guess I'm saying I care when there's nothing really to back up the idea that cyclists are the worst law breakers.

Does it matter? Yes, I think it does. On the one hand, it's annoying to be branded as a big group of law breakers, but there could be a wider point... If cyclists continue to be seen as outcasts it's (A) easier for some drivers to not care about us and (B) it's harder for others to become cyclists. Image does matter.

Bunnyhopper

doozerie wrote: »

What matters is that lots of people believe it perfectly acceptable to make up their own rules of the road as they go along regardless of its impact on others. And discussions of whether other road user groups are worse than them seems to have the effect of supporting such idiotic actions on the basis that their actions are somehow not as bad.

doozerie wrote: »

As regards lawbreaking generally: Do cyclists break the law? Yes, regularly. Do motorists break the law? Yes, regularly. Do pedestrians break the law? Yes, regularly. Who is the worst group? Who cares.

I care, because while I agree with the general point that one transgression is not more or less wrong than another, and I think that the us-and-them factionalism is deeply unhelpful, I also think that we shouldn't ignore the fact that the seriousness of the likely impact on others of some transgressions is worse that that of other transgressions, and that that seriousness does broadly relate to the vehicle involved. The law already recognizes that fact. Breaking a red light is a transgression regardless of vehicle, but the likely impact on others of that transgression is far greater when the vehicle involved is an articulated lorry or even a car than when it's a pedal cycle.

Kensington wrote: »

While cyclists motorists continue to ignore basic rules like red lights speed limits and road signs indicating, then they are going to continue to be singled out as law breakers. […]
Not stereotyping, brush tarring, bandwagon hopping etc. etc., just simple observation by myself every single weekday.

You can single out any group ("brush tar") you want if you generalize ("stereotype") on the basis of subjective anecdotal evidence ("simple observation").

Eamonnator

what's a "stenotype"?

kincsem

Cyclists probably break the law more than motorists or pedestrians. But is a pedestrian dropping a sweet wrapper on the foothpath, or a cyclist cycling through a red on an empty pedestrian crossing, as bad as driving a 40 foot container truck while talking on the phone or texting?

I know someone who keeps their phone on while driving as they do not want to miss a call. They tell you they don't use the phone while driving. It is a scary experience being a passanger as they scramble for the phone trying to answer it before a caller hangs up.

gottarun

Eamonnator wrote: »

what's a "stenotype"?

Is it what a stenographer does?

Btw, I cycle and don't break the lights, I sometimes break the posted speed limit and I agree it is dangerous that good cyclists run the wrath of some bad drivers who beliver that all cyclists are bad.

I would prefer that all road / path / cycle lane users apply the same duty of care and consideration for other users as is expected from drivers. But then this country is, due to the current economic environment, far from utopia. When they pass laws making it illegal to be a gobsh1te then it will all be better for everyone.

Maybe a zero tolerance attitude from the law enforcers like in New York could change attitudes?

Cookie_Monster

monument wrote: »

All road users break basic rules every day of the week:

• Motorists speed every day of the week.
• Motorists block ped crossing and advance stop lines every day of the week.
• Motorists break traffic lights on orange and red phases every day of the week.
• Pedestrians jaywalk at or beside traffic lights on mass every day of the week.
• Pedestrians walk on front of cars and bicycles without looking every day of the week.

You're bias if you think cyclists are the only ones.

The poll is a bit of messing btw

don't forget motorist on phones, it absolutely epidemic again now

Personally I know I break more laws while driving than cycling.

monument

kincsem wrote: »

Cyclists probably break the law more than motorists or pedestrians.

What on earth are you basing that on? Seriously.

Eamonnator wrote: »

what's a "stenotype"?

What you get when you don't look a second time at an auto-corrected word.

Traumadoc

Cyclists Public enemy no. 1???

You should try being a male cycling hospital consultant.:rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

Traumadoc wrote: »

You should try being a male cycling hospital consultant.:rolleyes:

what's a cycling hospital look like
:pac:

Holyboy

Well on my short ride home from the shop today I first encountered two young girls standing in the cycle lane that didn't seem to want to move for some reason so I looked behind me to check for cars and went around them, then I came across a lady cycling the wrong way up Cork street while texting on her phone, so I checked behind me and went around her, then when in Smithfield after rolling slowly down a footpath I turned up a one way street (myself going the right way) and was met with a taxi coming at me so I went around him ( I didn't even check behind me this time!!!) Did these things bother me? No. Did I roll through a couple of pedestrian lights when no one was crossing? Yes.
I agree that we should all respect each other as road users, but lets just RELAX a little bit, all this stressing will kill you!!
Haha I sound like a hippy:D

Hermy

gottarun wrote: »

When they pass laws making it illegal to be a gobsh1te then it will all be better for everyone.

Do you really expect the gobsh!tes that make the laws to pass a law that will outlaw their very existence?:p

Jawgap

Absolutely - A scientific poll conducted on Liveline, the Right Hook and in the AH forum confirmed this.

If cyclists had paid their fair share of road tax over the years, we wouldn't be in the state we are now.

Cyclists could also improve their rep by sticking to the cycle lanes and not cycling where there are no such lanes........

hobochris

Op, If you want more accurate feedback from your poll maybe try post it in a neutral forum. Here you will mainly get answers from like minded people(which is maybe what your after, to back up your own opinions on the issue),being a cycling fourm.

petethedrummer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8Ngk_Yrus

goingpostal

Coming to a petrol station near you soon!! 10EUR per litre gasoline!! Then we'll all be back on bikes!! I can't wait to ogle all the finely-toned female bottoms!! Females: Feel free to return the compliment!! Peak oil is great!!

Lumen

hobochris wrote: »

Op, If you want more accurate feedback from your poll maybe try post it in a neutral forum. Here you will mainly get answers from like minded people(which is maybe what your after, to back up your own opinions on the issue),being a cycling fourm.

There are no like-minded people in this forum.

We can't even agree about appropriate sock length.