advice on mini ITX case

Stoner

It's upgrade the media centre time again. I'm thinking very strongly of this ASUS AMD 350 MB/processor combo as I like the heatsink and the onboard HDMI

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-e35m1-i-deluxe-amd-hudson-m1-amd-zacate-18w-pci-e-20-(x16)-ddr31066-sata-6gb-s-mini-itx

I think the price for the cases is a little high, I'm going to have it behind the TV but not touching, it will be out of sight so i don't really mind about the looks, i can just be slim, I did see a cheap one on ebay but I'm asking if there is a place to pick up a cheap mini itx case with a PSU nothing fancy, they seem expensive for what they are.

thanks all.

Alun

I have just built a small HTPC with that board and it's great, but in a case with a fair number of ventilation holes I'm getting some quite high CPU temps, sometimes edging over 70 degrees, so I've ordered a case fan to try and get them down a bit. The case is this one http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=24396&agid=1199 but it wouldn't really be suited to placing behind the TV I don't think. I was fairly limited because I wanted a small (i.e. less than microATX sized), and cheap case that also had room for a PCIe card for the satellite tuner, and there aren't that many around. Note that the pictures on the site aren't too accurate .. there's a large area of ventilation holes in the top of the case just above where the MB goes.

There are so-called VESA cases that are specifically designed to be mounted on the back of flat screen monitors/TV's like this one for example http://mini-itx.com/store/?c=54 They're not pretty either, but then if they're hidden from view that isn't a factor.

Antigrav

Alun wrote: »

There are so-called VESA cases that are specifically designed to be mounted on the back of flat screen monitors/TV's like this one for example http://mini-itx.com/store/?c=54 They're not pretty either, but then if they're hidden from view that isn't a factor.

I used the M350 for my HTPC with the ASUS AT310NT-I Mobo and SSD for totally silent operation. Runs really cool, even when playing HD mkv's :cool:

Alun

Antigrav wrote: »

I used the M350 for my HTPC with the ASUS AT310NT-I Mobo and SSD for totally silent operation. Runs really cool, even when playing HD mkv's :cool:

What kinds of temps are you seeing out of interest?

Vic Vinegar

Alun wrote: »

The case is this one http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=24396&agid=1199

That only has a 60W psu. Is that gonna be ok for all the hardware you have in it? i'm thinking of buliding one with that as the case.

Alun

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

That only has a 60W psu. Is that gonna be ok for all the hardware you have in it? i'm thinking of buliding one with that as the case.

I put a power monitor on the mains side and it draws on average 30W when watching movies and 40-45W when watching live TV (DVB-T) so it seems to be adequate to me. I guess the reason why live TV consumes more is because it is constantly writing to the HD for the live TV buffer.

All I have in it is the MB itself, 4GB RAM, a Samsung EcoGreen 1TB drive and a TeVii S480 dual DVB-S2 tuner card (not actually being used at the moment) plus a USB DVB-T stick.

EDIT: Only 3-4W in standby (S3 sleep) too which is good.

Vic Vinegar

Alun wrote: »

I put a power monitor on the mains side and it draws on average 30W when watching movies and 40-45W when watching live TV (DVB-T) so it seems to be adequate to me. I guess the reason why live TV consumes more is because it is constantly writing to the HD for the live TV buffer.

All I have in it is the MB itself, 4GB RAM, a Samsung EcoGreen 1TB drive and a TeVii S480 dual DVB-S2 tuner card (not actually being used at the moment) plus a USB DVB-T stick.

EDIT: Only 3-4W in standby (S3 sleep) too which is good.

Ok, that's probably what i'd have in my build (minus the tuner card)

Do you have a mobo that has a cpu built in?

Alun

I'm using the ASUS E35M1-I Deluxe.

Vic Vinegar

Alun wrote: »

I'm using the ASUS E35M1-I Deluxe.

Does that play 720p video files perfectly?

I like the look of that one, really good price too and probably won't need a seperate graphics card.

Alun

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Does that play 720p video files perfectly?

Yes, the driver for the built-in graphics supports DXVA so some decoding tasks can be offloaded to the GPU. I see average CPU loads of only around 10-15% when playing 720p MKV's.

Vic Vinegar

Alun wrote: »

Yes, the driver for the built-in graphics supports DXVA so some decoding tasks can be offloaded to the GPU. I see average CPU loads of only around 10-15% when playing 720p MKV's.

That's brilliant, definitely getting that then.

Stoner

thanks for the advice lads, i was away from the PC but reading them all the same, great info

Stoner

http://www.jcp-tech.de/en/products/mini-itx/id/39140.html

this is the same price on that site and a little smaller if you have no cards to add.


Did you buy the delux MB on scan too, or did you get it at a better price somewhere else

i see it here

http://www2.atelco.de/articledetail.jsps?aid=43593&img=1

Alun

I got everything on hardwareversand.de. Lot's of people over on the 'PC Building & Upgrading' forum seem to get a lot of their stuff there. Only odd thing (for Ireland anyway, it's very common in Germany) is that you have to pay up front via bank transfer, but it all went very smoothly.

I see that the MB is actually cheaper now than when I bought mine http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=43593&agid=1660

By the way, regarding the temperatures, I had a hunt around on Google and it would appear that the E350 processor is actually designed to run a lot hotter than most current desktop processors, up to 90 degrees according to AMD themselves! Despite that I still installed the fan I got, and the result is that CPU temps are now down to 42 degrees on average under full load. That's with the fan mounted above the MB and drawing air upwards, i.e. in the same direction as natural convection. It's being controlled by the ASUS Fan Xpert s/w and is usually only running at about half speed and is barely noticeable if you hold your hand above the case holes, and you can't hear it at all. This is it BTW http://www.quietpc.com/ie-en-eur/products/casefans/slipstream-120-slim-1200. The hole spacing of the holes in the top of the case match up with the mounting holes, so it's easy to fit. Only snag is the screws fit from above so are visible, so I might replace them with some black ones at some stage.

Stoner

ok so i bought the parts, don't laugh at the case, i bough two delivered for 27 pounds, it will be hidden

Case

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140569366309&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2971wt_1140

MB
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-e35m1-i-deluxe-amd-hudson-m1-amd-zacate-18w-pci-e-20-(x16)-ddr31066-sata-6gb-s-mini-itx

SSD

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/60gb-ocz-agility-3-ssd-25-sata-6gb-s-sandforce-2281-read-525mb-s-write-475mb-s-50k-iops

RAM

http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr3/8gbgskillddr3pc31333mhzripjawseries.html

I'll stick Win 7 home premium 64 on it.

Looking forward to silent operation.:)

Will just need a nice bluetooth keyboard for it now, but I have been using win remote on my android as a mouse and keyboard over wifi, it's good, there might be better though, but its free.

Stoner

i got one of those cases today, it's a lot bigger than i expected, not really what i wanted, pity should have read about it more my own fault

Gatster

Does anyone know if this MB could handle live TV through Windows MC (Windows 7)?

Alun

Gatster wrote: »

Does anyone know if this MB could handle live TV through Windows MC (Windows 7)?

Sorry, only just seen this ... yes it can.

Carter P Fly

If you are using an SSD and watching a lot of Live TV then you shoudl look into using a RAM disk instead of the SSD for that buffer.

Basically its creating a disk using your RAM instead of your SSD as SSD'd are awesome when it comes to reads but really can suffer from a lot of continuous writes. I also have the pagefile disabled on my SSD completly and have no problem with this setup even though the merits of this is hotly debated.

Alun

I'm not using an SSD and it works just fine thanks.

Carter P Fly

Alun wrote: »

I'm not using an SSD and it works just fine thanks.

That's great, if completly irrelevent to anything as the comment was directed at stoner and the other poster who reccomended using a SSD.

Stoner

Carter P Fly wrote: »

If you are using an SSD and watching a lot of Live TV then you shoudl look into using a RAM disk instead of the SSD for that buffer.

Basically its creating a disk using your RAM instead of your SSD as SSD'd are awesome when it comes to reads but really can suffer from a lot of continuous writes. I also have the pagefile disabled on my SSD completly and have no problem with this setup even though the merits of this is hotly debated.

that's a good point. I have 8Gb of ram, I also have a wired network and I map a drive on my media pcs to the NAS. Point take with respect to the page file, I think that reducing writes to the SSD will prolong its life.

How did you go about setting up the RAM dive, I can google it and do it if you dont have the time to answer but if you have it up and running you could save me the time you spent selecting the best method .
I didn't know that the page file can write to a RAM drive, thank you.

Alun

Carter P Fly wrote: »

That's great, if completly irrelevent to anything as the comment was directed at stoner and the other poster who reccomended using a SSD.

No need to get annoyed. The way you posted (i.e. no quoting of a previous post, or a direct reference to a particular poster) made it look like your reply was a direct reply to my post.

Gatster

Alun wrote: »

Sorry, only just seen this ... yes it can.

Cheers for that - are you running Live TV through Windows (7) MC? Could this board cope with it as well, could save myself a few bob? Going to use my SATA III SSD, 8gb RAM, external drive for recorded TV and everything else on the NAS. If all goes well it will be on pretty much all the time.

Alun

Gatster wrote: »

Cheers for that - are you running Live TV through Windows (7) MC?

Yes, I am. It uses a little more CPU than when playing downloaded movies as they are usually progressive whereas live tv is interlaced. Some of the deinterlacing is offloaded to the GPU by DXVA, so it's not a huge burden. I average only 10-20% CPU when watching 720p movies, but that goes up to 30-40% when watching RTE2 on Saorview which is 1080i, and a bit less on the SD channels. I haven't got my satellite dish set up yet, so can't test that yet.

Could this board cope with it as well, could save myself a few bob? Going to use my SATA III SSD, 8gb RAM, external drive for recorded TV and everything else on the NAS. If all goes well it will be on pretty much all the time.

I can see no reason why not, it's the same AMD E-350 APU (CPU/GPU) as in my board. The ASUS board has built-in WiFi and Bluetooth, plus that hefty heatpipe cooler probably adds a bit of cost.

Gatster

Thanks for that - I'll be using my TBS6981 card for the satellite, need to measure up for that case. Just don't have the time for gaming so my current rig will be parted out once I get this built.

Stoner

yeah I agree that there is added cost, but to be honest i thank that the silent operation from the heat pipe is worth the extra few bob, it's a lovely fit.

I note that the SSD i bought on scan is only 100 euro on Dabs today as an offer.

Gatster

Just on the live tv bit, I'd be watching this on a 50" plasma as opposed to a pc monitor, couldmit still cope, I'll probably go for the silent MB.

Stoner

I'm sure Alun can advise on his set up, but as far as I'm concerned the specs indicate that it will not have an issue. However will your Plasma be able to handle it? my old 42 inch panny was not able for my current media PC.
As you know the great thing about the PCI-E expansion option IMHO is that we can upgrade the graphics in a couple of years if things get more difficult for the onboard processors. I got an extra couple of years out of my shuttle by adding a passive card when it was not able to deliver the more demanding media, and last year i upgraded another machine with a passive ATI HD5450, it gave me 1GB of ddr3 ram and decent HD TV options for only €50.

Gatster

Yeah it's fine running with the GTS450 in the current setup. The pci-e slot will be taken up by the dvb-s2 owing to the fact I can't get a dual tuner USB setup, but they may appear down the line which may free it up.

Don't know why I specced up a gaming rig instead of this sort of set up

Stoner

that's exactly what I did before, it was a long time ago now but I ended up with a 2K gaming machine that sounded like a hoover, so I bought the shuttle, I have to say media PCs are the best value PCs IMHO, I get huge value from them.

I'm using win remote on my android phone as a wifi mouse and keyboard, it's not bad, free and the range is as good as the router.