Are employers exploiting employees?

ilovesleep

I feel I am being exoloited and taken advantage of at work. I used to have a 10 hour working day, which is long enough but that has increased without warning to 11/12 hours a day and sometimes longer 13/14/15 hours a day sometimes. With the work that I do, I dont have anyone to come along and relief me for a break so it's all work. I don't eat properly. If I am lucky to get a meal fitted in, it is rushed. I dont sleep properly. A schedule like this takes every ounch of energy out from you.

There was a thread over in PI. I'm not the op by the way, and there are a few more in my position - being worked right into the ground.

I know many people are unemployed but if you do have a job, what is it like for you? Do you feel you are being exploited in a similiar manner?

sunflower27

Well, that's not on. You are entitled to breaks. Sorry, I don't know the guidelines, but no-one should be expected to work that long without breaks. Hopefully someone will come along soon that knows more.

I imagine that this is becoming increasingly common. People are worried about losing jobs because there is not a lot out there so employers are able to pile on the work and it's a case of do it or leave because someone else will take the job in a heartbeat.

Maybe this would be better in the work /jobs forum or PI for serious answers???

smcgiff

sunflower27 wrote: »

Well, that's not on. You are entitled to breaks. Sorry, I don't know the guidelines, but no-one should be expected to work that long without breaks. Hopefully someone will come along soon that knows more.

I imagine that this is becoming increasingly common. People are worried about losing jobs because there is not a lot out there so employers are able to pile on the work and it's a case of do it or leave because someone else will take the job in a heartbeat.

Maybe this would be better in the work /jobs forum or PI for serious answers???

On my phone so will keep short. There's max amount of hours you can work in a week and must get regular breaks.

Vicxas

Where i work, you do a 7 day stretch, get a day off then back in for another 5 days.... its murder.

AckwelFoley

Unless you're working in a beer tasting factory,your employer is taking you for a fookin eejit

scotty_irish

ilovesleep wrote: »

I feel I am being exoloited and taken advantage of at work. I used to have a 10 hour working day, which is long enough but that has increased without warning to 11/12 hours a day and sometimes longer 13/14/15 hours a day sometimes. With the work that I do, I dont have anyone to come along and relief me for a break so it's all work. I don't eat properly. If I am lucky to get a meal fitted in, it is rushed. I dont sleep properly. A schedule like this takes every ounch of energy out from you.

There was a thread over in PI. I'm not the op by the way, and there are a few more in my position - being worked right into the ground.

I know many people are unemployed but if you do have a job, what is it like for you? Do you feel you are being exploited in a similiar manner?

wtf do you work as? get a passport and the f*ck out.

sunflower27

I think it might be worthwhile finding out what you are entitled to and then getting together with the other employees and approaching management.

Nothing will change if you don't stand up for yourself. Of course, make sure everything is documented because if they threaten you in any way you have legitimate grounds to sue them for unfair dismissal if they decideto take that route.

You should not be a slave for their benefit.

Sonnenblumen

ilovesleep wrote: »

I feel I am being exoloited and taken advantage of at work. I used to have a 10 hour working day, which is long enough but that has increased without warning to 11/12 hours a day and sometimes longer 13/14/15 hours a day sometimes. With the work that I do, I dont have anyone to come along and relief me for a break so it's all work. I don't eat properly. If I am lucky to get a meal fitted in, it is rushed. I dont sleep properly. A schedule like this takes every ounch of energy out from you.

There was a thread over in PI. I'm not the op by the way, and there are a few more in my position - being worked right into the ground.

I know many people are unemployed but if you do have a job, what is it like for you? Do you feel you are being exploited in a similiar manner?

Are you a junior doctor working in a hospital?

tallus

If my memory serves me correctly, according to the European Working Time Directive you cannot be forced to work any more than 48 hours in one working week.
Also, under the factories act, you're due a lunch break between the 4th and 5th hours of your working day.

Link to the Directive is Here

blaze1

Do you really enjoy your job that much?

9-5pm and then clock the f*ck out man

Kildare Resident

What do you do? I work for a guy that would arrive on site at 10 or 11 and he'll expect me to do 8 hours after that even though I would have been there at 7 or 8, I put my foot down about two weeks ago and he was a bit taken aback. Things have changed for the moment but I think they'll revert back after a while....

You need to say how you feel but be careful not to do it in an aggressive way

Sweatynutsack

I started a 4 week trial period for a new position after being unemployed for nearly two years. I took the position knowing i would not get any form of wage for the first month. Yesterday the boss calls me in and tells me he is delighted with my performance and that he would like to extend my position for another 3 months (without pay lol) I told him where to stick it in a polite way . I am hard pushed to find suitable employment to be honest but i ain't working for free. I have held the same position in my previous job for 10 solid years and had been paid well yet this guy wants to rate my performance for a further 12 weeks and wants me to do it for nothing......i dont think so

sunflower27

Sweatynutsack wrote: »

I started a 4 week trial period for a new position after being unemployed for nearly two years. I took the position knowing i would not get any form of wage for the first month. Yesterday the boss calls me in and tells me he is delighted with my performance and that he would like to extend my position for another 3 months (without pay lol) I told him where to stick it in a polite way . I am hard pushed to find suitable employment to be honest but i ain't working for free. I have held the same position in my previous job for 10 solid years and had been paid well yet this guy wants to rate my performance for a further 12 weeks and wants me to do it for nothing......i dont think so

Fair play to you. People need to stand up for themselves. Can I ask what his reaction was???

ICE HOUSE

Sorry to hear your circumstances op. Im sick to death of employers taking the absolute piss and getting away with murder and putting everything down to the "Recession". Most of these Scumbags are exploiting every ounce of sweat out of decent hardworking people. Id love to see primetime or something similar do a load of undercover investigations on these lowlifes and then blast them all over RTE and front of the national newspapers. Greed, greed and more greed.

Mike 1972

tallus wrote: »

If my memory serves me correctly, according to the European Working Time Directive you cannot be forced to work any more than 48 hours in one working week.

Or 13 hours in one day (some industries such as healthcare are not covered though)

Crazy Horse 6

blaze1 wrote: »

Do you really enjoy your job that much?

9-5pm and then clock the f*ck out man

Some people are slaves to their job and can't see anything else.

dotsman

The law is your friend in this case.

Law

More Readable version

If what your employer is asking you to do is illegal, then you have a case. If not, it's up to you to ask yourself "is it time to get a new job"?

jimthemental

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Some people are slaves to their job and can't see anything else.

Some people have no choice, I have a 45 hour week for barely above minimum wage. It's either put up with it or emigrate. I've stuck 18 months and now I'm going to Australia, OP get out while you can afford to.

Geansai Rua

Ha, OP you must work in the same place as me!

I work in a hotel bar, about 48 hours a week (mon-sun) but they scam it by making our working week fri to thurs... dunno how it works but it does!

I actually worked 11 hours yesterday, no break, on my feet all day.

I am going back to college in september so as long as I have money going into the bank im ok.. Could never do it long term though!

Its hell on earth, crap money.. but what else am i going to do...

Celly Smunt

Geansai Rua wrote: »

Ha, OP you must work in the same place as me!

I work in a hotel bar, about 48 hours a week (mon-sun) but they scam it by making our working week fri to thurs... dunno how it works but it does!

I actually worked 11 hours yesterday, no break, on my feet all day.

I am going back to college in september so as long as I have money going into the bank im ok.. Could never do it long term though!

Its hell on earth, crap money.. but what else am i going to do...

go on the game,1 nights wage for 30 minutes

Sweatynutsack

sunflower27 wrote: »

Fair play to you. People need to stand up for themselves. Can I ask what his reaction was???

His reaction was what i expected it to be "Well their are plenty of people looking for work". So in any case he can keep hiring people on a trial basis and he does'nt have to pay them, madness tbh

tayto lover

Working without pay on a "trial basis" should be outlawed as its being abused. It will continue to get worse. Its like getting teeth out without the anesthetic.

Alter-Ego

Sweatynutsack wrote: »

I started a 4 week trial period for a new position after being unemployed for nearly two years. I took the position knowing i would not get any form of wage for the first month. Yesterday the boss calls me in and tells me he is delighted with my performance and that he would like to extend my position for another 3 months (without pay lol) I told him where to stick it in a polite way . I am hard pushed to find suitable employment to be honest but i ain't working for free. I have held the same position in my previous job for 10 solid years and had been paid well yet this guy wants to rate my performance for a further 12 weeks and wants me to do it for nothing......i dont think so

This kind of sh1t needs to be sorted out pronto.

Its sickening the amount of work placement schemes I've seen on Fas looking for *Experienced* people to work a job for free when the whole idea of the scheme is to give people work experience. There's a lot of bottom feeding scum out there taking the p1ss tbh.

Icaras

ilovesleep wrote: »

I feel I am being exoloited and taken advantage of at work. I used to have a 10 hour working day, which is long enough but that has increased without warning to 11/12 hours a day and sometimes longer 13/14/15 hours a day sometimes. With the work that I do, I dont have anyone to come along and relief me for a break so it's all work. I don't eat properly. If I am lucky to get a meal fitted in, it is rushed. I dont sleep properly. A schedule like this takes every ounch of energy out from you.

There was a thread over in PI. I'm not the op by the way, and there are a few more in my position - being worked right into the ground.

I know many people are unemployed but if you do have a job, what is it like for you? Do you feel you are being exploited in a similiar manner?

If your employer is making you do it its illegal.
If you are doing it because you feel you need to or you think they want you to then you are a fool

EarlERizer

Jaysus OP,thats hardcore, and I thought my position was bad!

After been unemployed for little over 18months desperation got the better of me and I signed up with yet another recruitment agency to see if I could get anything by way of a steady income, I got a placement with a large multinational distributor.

It's only an 11 month contract with no possibility of a permanent job,it pays just on the edge of minimum wage,however,I've learned that the company pay the agency €14.50 per hour for each of us,so,they are making a handsome sum of €215 pw on each 'recruit' .....for what, I have no idea, they supplied nothing but a handbook,they provide nothing by way of a service to me,yet they cream €215 out of my sweat every week.

Employers/Employment Agencies are exploiting employee's the lenght and bredth of the country and getting away with it,it's disgusting whats going on but with so many out of work and desperate for a job they know they have the upper hand,employees are over a barrel.

ilovesleep

Alter-Ego wrote: »

This kind of sh1t needs to be sorted out pronto.

Its sickening the amount of work placement schemes I've seen on Fas looking for *Experienced* people to work a job for free when the whole idea of the scheme is to give people work experience. There's a lot of bottom feeding scum out there taking the p1ss tbh.

I fear so much for Irelands future. One thing I will say is that employers need to be helped out like perhaps as an example reducing employers prsi but not giving them slaves to abuse.

Sweatynutsack

ilovesleep wrote: »

I fear so much for Irelands future. One thing I will say is that employers need to be helped out like perhaps as an example reducing employers prsi but not giving them slaves to abuse.

Employers need to have a conscience !!

ilovesleep

What another poster said primetime needs to go undercover and do an investigation into such employers and bring this sh1t to light before it gets out of hand.

ejmaztec

tayto lover wrote: »

Working without pay on a "trial basis" should be outlawed as its being abused. It will continue to get worse. Its like getting teeth out without the anesthetic.

Even more so if there are any unpaid dentists working on a trial basis.

neiphin

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speed-up-american-workers-long-hours

"(To balk at working hard—really, really hard—brands you as profoundly un-American. Who besides the archetypical Japanese salaryman derives so much of his self-image from self-sacrifice on the job? Slacker is one of the most biting insults available in polite company.

And so we kowtow to—nay, embrace—a cultural maxim that just happens to be enormously convenient to corporate America. "Our culture has encouraged me to only feel valuable if I'm barely hanging on to my sanity,")"

Sonnenblumen

ilovesleep wrote: »

I fear so much for Irelands future. One thing I will say is that employers need to be helped out like perhaps as an example reducing employers prsi but not giving them slaves to abuse.

So why have you posted no details on what it is you do?

krudler

our place decided that if you were on the last shift, which finishes at 10pm (call centre) and if there were still calls waiting in the queue to be answered you had to stay and take them, no extra pay and you didnt get the time back, fcuk that sh1t. course all it takes is one gombeen to roll over and do it and then everyone else will be getting pulled for "not contributing" want the calls answered? hire more fcuking staff instead of exploiting the ones you already have!

ejmaztec

krudler wrote: »

our place decided that if you were on the last shift, which finishes at 10pm (call centre) and if there were still calls waiting in the queue to be answered you had to stay and take them, no extra pay and you didnt get the time back, fcuk that sh1t. course all it takes is one gombeen to roll over and do it and then everyone else will be getting pulled for "not contributing" want the calls answered? hire more fcuking staff instead of exploiting the ones you already have!

Before I decided to become self-employed, my last job was a 9 to 5 working for an accountancy firm, and I used to get the evil eye when I took off out the door on the dot at 5. There was no overtime there either, but out of all of the staff, I seemed to be the only one to say "fuck 'em".

It was one of those places where the words staff and employee were never used. All of us, including the partners (aka fuckers), were all "team-members".

I never had any of this bullsh1t when I worked in the UK, where there seemed to be at least mutual respect.

Oranage2

My job is alright - i can ask the boss if i want more hour though i'd be put on a late shift -The only thing in terms of exploitation is that the company pays 25 quid an hour for each staff but the employees only see €11 an hour

Sonnenblumen

Oranage2 wrote: »

My job is alright - i can ask the boss if i want more hour though i'd be put on a late shift -The only thing in terms of exploitation is that the company pays 25 quid an hour for each staff but the employees only see €11 an hour

and your point is? Charge out rates (include other costs incl Employers PRSI contribution for employees, Employer & Public liability insurances, and many other overheads).

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Out of interest. How much money would an average 22 year old in Ireland who works full time take home. If you are to take the average of every twenty two year old in Ireland. Standing to think it is a lot lower than what I used to think.

Overheal

Geansai Rua wrote: »

Ha, OP you must work in the same place as me!

I work in a hotel bar, about 48 hours a week (mon-sun) but they scam it by making our working week fri to thurs... dunno how it works but it does!

I actually worked 11 hours yesterday, no break, on my feet all day.

I am going back to college in september so as long as I have money going into the bank im ok.. Could never do it long term though!

Its hell on earth, crap money.. but what else am i going to do...

Check your labor laws. You're still working 48 hours in a 7 day period yes?

Karona

Used to work 15 hours a day and they would expect you to come in on your day off. The manager was useless, she would go out the night before and would ring in with a hangover the next morning and expect you to cover for her, but if one of the staff rang in she'd go crazy. I hated that place.

Naikon

Quit moaning. If you don't like working for other people, work for yourself. Contract work for example. Problem solved.

Nodin

ejmaztec wrote: »

Before I decided to become self-employed, my last job was a 9 to 5 working for an accountancy firm, and I used to get the evil eye when I took off out the door on the dot at 5. There was no overtime there either, but out of all of the staff, I seemed to be the only one to say "fuck 'em".

It was one of those places where the words staff and employee were never used. All of us, including the partners (aka fuckers), were all "team-members".

I never had any of this bullsh1t when I worked in the UK, where there seemed to be at least mutual respect.

'Many moons ago' before there was widespread e-mail and use of PC's, operations staff where I used work would have to put in a 60 hour and above week to keep the show on the road. Lots on long hours doing essentially mind numbing but vital things to keep the place going. The description of our dutiful company manager (and later CEO) of these good folk was that they were a "bunch of fucking monkeys".

Of course there are Irish firms that apparently do run their places with respect for their staff etc. I've never worked for one, but they do - I'm assured - exist.

ejmaztec

Nodin wrote: »

'Many moons ago' before there was widespread e-mail and use of PC's, operations staff where I used work would have to put in a 60 hour and above week to keep the show on the road. Lots on long hours doing essentially mind numbing but vital things to keep the place going. The description of our dutiful company manager (and later CEO) of these good folk was that they were a "bunch of fucking monkeys".

Of course there are Irish firms that apparently do run their places with respect for their staff etc. I've never worked for one, but they do - I'm assured - exist.

I've never found and have never heard of one, which makes me think that finding the Holy Grail would be a push-over by comparison.

I even worked for a very short time at a provincial newspaper, where in print they stood up for the rights of the individual, and had various crusades to speak up for the down-trodden etc... Unfortunately, all of the employees of this paper were treated like dogs.

I asked one guy what the annual holidays were, and his reply was "I don't think anyone's been here long enough to find out". I never found out either, because I was gone with the wind soon after.:D

dotsman

Ahmad Silly Knight wrote: »

Out of interest. How much money would an average 22 year old in Ireland who works full time take home. If you are to take the average of every twenty two year old in Ireland. Standing to think it is a lot lower than what I used to think.

What is an average 22 year old? Are they skilled? More importantly, are they skilled in areas of economic importance? Are their skills rare and hard to come by? Are they good at what they do? What experience do they have? Are they on a specific career path?

mikemac

Unpaid overtime might be ok if you are a manager or heading for promotion. And it's to be done if you are a director.

But companies are not hiring and then getting staff to cover the extra. A tough ambitious workload is fine and it keeps ya busy but often it's just not possible.

Get four staff to stay on two hours a night, five days a week and wham, you've gotten 40 free hours of labour and saved the company over 20k or maybe over 30k by not getting a new hire

Bens

Ahmad Silly Knight wrote: »

Out of interest. How much money would an average 22 year old in Ireland who works full time take home. If you are to take the average of every twenty two year old in Ireland. Standing to think it is a lot lower than what I used to think.

Its going to be zero now, with the new government sponsored internship slave scheme.

Overheal

Don't settle for unpaid overtime: Get Salary Pay, and the appropriate benefits.

thats one of the reasons me and my last employer didn't work out. They wanted me to go salary so they could work me weirder hours, but I wasn't going to do that since they were not willing to match what I was making on average as an hourly employee. Sucks for them because if not for that stupid punchcard I probably would have worked a lot harder for them, and willingly.

Overheal

Bens wrote: »

Its going to be zero now, with the new government sponsored internship slave scheme.

:rolleyes:

Bens

A mate of mine works in a company where you are expected to stay until your work is done.
This was ok with them when they got paid for overtime.

Recently the "rules" for payment of overtime were changed. Now you get paid overtime, but only after you have already stayed 2 hours after your normal finish time. I other words. If you worked 9am - 9pm you get paid overtime from 7pm. You work for free between 5 and 7pm.

Overheal

Bens wrote: »

A mate of mine works in a company where you are expected to stay until your work is done.
This was ok with them when they got paid for overtime.

Recently the "rules" for payment of overtime were changed. Now you get paid overtime, but only after you have already stayed 2 hours after your normal finish time. I other words. If you worked 9am - 9pm you get paid overtime from 7pm. You work for free between 5 and 7pm.

Are you telling me you would have previously got 12 overtime hours?

Awesome deal. But definitely not a legal requirement. Nothing outrageous about getting paid 2 OT hours for 2 hours of OT.

Getting paid 2 hours OT for 4 hours OT though is a labor dispute. Go have fun!

7sr2z3fely84g5

its being going on for years,particularly during the boom,we let fellow eu members in to do the min wage work whilst we scoffed at them from our building sites.

Usually managers are pulling this shít on getting more hours out of an employee for free,hence on getting promoted..

Bens

Overheal wrote: »

Are you telling me you would have previously got 12 overtime hours?

Awesome deal. But definitely not a legal requirement. Nothing outrageous about getting paid 2 OT hours for 2 hours of OT.

Getting paid 2 hours OT for 4 hours OT though is a labor dispute. Go have fun!

Normal hours 9 - 5 and getting paid 2 OT hours for 4 hours of OT if working to 9pm.

A few of them went to their boss about it and were told they would be fired if they went any further with it. Personally I would have just walked, but these people have been made to feel desperate and worthless that they wouldnt get a good job anywhere else. I know they would though.

Overheal

Bens wrote: »

Normal hours 9 - 5 and getting paid 2 OT hours for 4 hours of OT if working to 9pm.

A few of them went to their boss about it and were told they would be fired if they went any further with it. Personally I would have just walked, but these people have been made to feel desperate and worthless that they wouldnt get a good job anywhere else. I know they would though.

Check with an expert in labor law or refer to the irish statute book online. I know for example when reporting harassment in the workplace, it is illegal for there to be any backlash for doing so, ie. your boss can't threaten to fire you for reporting racism. I would assume similar rules apply to being threatened with termination for pursuing back pay. And its possible they might even be fined heavily for having done so.