Is health insurance actually necessary in Ireland?

uck51js9zml2yt

My son needs an ear operation after seeing a consultant privately and having an investigation of the ear done privately. It was an 18 month wait to get an initial visit publicly by which time he could loose his hearing.
So yes ..it's needed.

socco

as a follow up question linked to this: do people consider income continuance payment plan important?

The reason I raise it is because i see the two as very important and I mean both of them. Having health insurance will ensure that you're medical bills are covered but if you don't have any income coming in you're going to run into trouble anyway.

Cristiano Zealous Slavery

Cristiano Zealous Slavery wrote: »

My son needs an ear operation after seeing a consultant privately and having an investigation of the ear done privately. It was an 18 month wait to get an initial visit publicly by which time he could loose his hearing.
So yes ..it's needed.

Its the same consultants doing the same work. In reality you're not paying to have the job done; you're paying to jump the waiting list. It would be more honest to arrive with a little brown envelope as in some ex soviet countries.

Consultants should be either totally public or totally private, and if they are private the should be using private hospitals and support services. Private consultant numbers should not be restricted.

Diairist

It is always nice to be able to afford both income protection & health insurance. If circumstances allow, income protection is fantastic if you're self - employed. Imagine a self employed guy whose office is above a pub. Imagine the pub is raided and a bullet goes through the ceiling & hits him? Imagine the pub goes on fire and his equipment / records are burnt ?

uck51js9zml2yt

DrDonkey wrote: »

Its the same consultants doing the same work. In reality you're not paying to have the job done; you're paying to jump the waiting list. It would be more honest to arrive with a little brown envelope as in some ex soviet countries.
.

my guy works privately.

As for ex soviet countries.
I broke my collar bone in one last year.
Went to see a consultant publicly without issue on my first visit.
when I had to go back there was a 2 hour wait so I went private, paid my 6€ and skipped the que of people sitting there.

Cristiano Zealous Slavery

Cristiano Zealous Slavery wrote: »

when I had to go back there was a 2 hour wait so I went private, paid my 6€ and skipped the que of people sitting there.

Exactly. Same system, just more transparent.

Gael23

lonestargirl wrote: »

I disagree - if you are diagnosed with cancer you will be very well taken care of in a timely fashion in the public system. The issues are more with 'elective' procedures, some of which may be causing significant impact on a person's quality of life.

I posted earlier about that and it's unfortunately not strictly the case. Yes if you have cancer or something serious wrong with you, you will get treatment but its sometimes too late by the time you get a diagnosis in the public system

JohnMc1

ryanf1 wrote: »

I posted earlier about that and it's unfortunately not strictly the case. Yes if you have cancer or something serious wrong with you, you will get treatment but its sometimes too late by the time you get a diagnosis in the public system

Agreed. Sadly my Cancer relapsed [Lymphoma] in Feb and I've been waiting for a biopsy ever since. Its ridiculous trying to get it done on a Medical Card. And I could have sworn our Minister of Health and the HSE say that there would be no feet dragging when it came to Cancer.

phoenix999

My father had radiotherapy for prostate cancer as a public patient. They wouldn't operate due to his age. He received the best of treatment. His cancer didn't spread and he is still healthy two years later. My uncle, also a public patient, had chest problems and was told he would have to wait six months for a scan. So he decided two days later to admit himself to A&E after getting chest pains. He had the scan just two days later which found a malignant tumour on his lung. So public patients shouldn't feel condemned to waiting silently on waiting lists.

micosoft

It's a good question. I've been treated by several consultants over the past five years for everything from Liver to Thyroid. All publically. And all of it was excellent.
I have to say the public system works when you are in a well run hospital like vincents. It's all the crappy small hospitals around the country where the horror stories arise (lady of lourdes is one I'll be skipping).

The big issue here is the dysfunctional nature of the health insurance market, the most criminal part being "community rating" where somebody can wait till their fifties to join and pay the same rates as someone who joined in there twenties.

What should be in place is mandatory health insurance. You can pick your company but you must contribute to a scheme if you earn an income. If you want a nicer room etc you can pay extra. GP's should be included.

We should also eliminate completely free medical care. The prescription charges for medical card were a step in the right direction (50c is nothing and eliminated a huge amount of abuse there). A small fee - say €5 per doctors visit.

JohnMc1

lonestargirl wrote: »

I disagree - if you are diagnosed with cancer you will be very well taken care of in a timely fashion in the public system. The issues are more with 'elective' procedures, some of which may be causing significant impact on a person's quality of life.

I wish I could agree. I went to my hematologist in Feb for a swelling on the right side on my neck [I previously had Lymphoma] I had a CT scan that week. She referred me to a doctor for a biopsy and I've been waiting ever since. I saw him for a consultation a couple of weeks ago and he said I could have it this coming week. Considering his office was closed last week and I never received a letter or a phone [He was supposed to call me a couple of days after the consultation] I have a feeling that was just lip service and I'm nowhere near having a biopsy done.

JohnMc1

micosoft wrote: »

.
I have to say the public system works when you are in a well run hospital like vincents. It's all the crappy small hospitals around the country where the horror stories arise (lady of lourdes is one I'll be skipping).
.

The Feet dragging for me is happening in Waterford regional. So the blame can't be placed solely on the small hospitals.

Gael23

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Agreed. Sadly my Cancer relapsed [Lymphoma] in Feb and I've been waiting for a biopsy ever since. Its ridiculous trying to get it done on a Medical Card. And I could have sworn our Minister of Health and the HSE say that there would be no feet dragging when it came to Cancer.

Another story since I last posted. A neighbour of ours went into a&e feeling unwell last Friday. Symptoms persisted so she returned to her GP on Monday and was sent to a private hospital to have tests repeated. On Thursday she had a brain tumour removed.

JohnMc1

ryanf1 wrote: »

Another story since I last posted. A neighbour of ours went into a&e feeling unwell last Friday. Symptoms persisted so she returned to her GP on Monday and was sent to a private hospital to have tests repeated. On Thursday she had a brain tumour removed.

I'm glad that there are some good stories about Public Healthcare here. Its just very hard to see the good when you feel like one of the few who is left to rot.

smallbrowncat

An update from the original poster here, a few years on. We're still in Ireland, but we have a baby now. We still don't have health insurance. I consider it every 6 months or so, then I get so disgusted by the cost and the confusing nature of it I decide not to. We won't be here more than 2-3 years longer so I still don't know whether it's worth getting it.

The public maternity care was great in some respects (wonderful Domino care), and really dire in others (postnatal ward, lack of staff, essentially abandoned for 6 hours after birth) but it's not much worse than what friends have described they got through semi-private or private.

I still don't know whether to get health insurance. My first option if my son was seriously sick (and didn't need immediate hospitalisation) would be to take him home to New Zealand.

Is it worth getting health insurance for just 2-3 years? My gut says no. But I'd be really interested in hearing what other parents have to say!

uck51js9zml2yt

smallbrowncat wrote: »

An update from the original poster here, a few years on. We're still in Ireland, but we have a baby now. We still don't have health insurance. I consider it every 6 months or so, then I get so disgusted by the cost and the confusing nature of it I decide not to. We won't be here more than 2-3 years longer so I still don't know whether it's worth getting it.

The public maternity care was great in some respects (wonderful Domino care), and really dire in others (postnatal ward, lack of staff, essentially abandoned for 6 hours after birth) but it's not much worse than what friends have described they got through semi-private or private.

I still don't know whether to get health insurance. My first option if my son was seriously sick (and didn't need immediate hospitalisation) would be to take him home to New Zealand.

Is it worth getting health insurance for just 2-3 years? My gut says no. But I'd be really interested in hearing what other parents have to say!

if we didn't have insurance my son would likely be dead. had infection in his ear. public wait for a consultant is 18 months. we went private to be told his ear drum was growing into his ear. he had surgery in a matter of weeks and we were told short term the infection would hit his brain.
we now get to see the surgeon for follow up in his public clinic every few months and apart for a slight loss of hearing he's doing great. surgery cost 6k. the insurance for us all was 2000.

smallbrowncat

Yes but what if you just paid to see the consultant privately (with no insurance)? So, pay the €400 or whatever it might be to see him. Surely, seeing the serious nature of your son's condition and getting a diagnosis from the consultant you would automatically get seen quickly under the public system anyway?

There is a huge lack of clarity as to what the real benefit of health insurance is. If you pay privately to see a consultant, can you then not use the public system at all??? Ie would you HAVE to pay out of your own pocket for private surgery once you've paid privately to see the consultant? Or can you not see a consultant privately at all unless you have insurance?

I can afford to pay whatever it is to see a consultant (to avoid the waiting times) and yes I could afford the 6k to pay for surgery (I've saved that by not spending money on health insurance in the past few years).

It's like that VHI advert where the mum describes having her twins born early. She said there was nothing to worry about, she just signed a form. But under the public system, if her twins were born early it's not like she wouldn't have been looked after anyway, as it was an emergency situation IYSWIM?

I am really struggling to work out the exact situations where private health insurance is a benefit, or in other words, you'd be screwed by not having it. I can afford to pay to see a consultant, and I can afford most types of day surgery. Do I still need health insurance?

The system is really opaque and I've spent 3 years trying to work it out and I'm still no bloody closer to an answer. If anyone could help clarify these points I would be really appreciative!

smallbrowncat

BTW I am very glad your son is doing ok now tatranska!

adamski8

smallbrowncat wrote: »

Yes but what if you just paid to see the consultant privately (with no insurance)? So, pay the €400 or whatever it might be to see him. Surely, seeing the serious nature of your son's condition and getting a diagnosis from the consultant you would automatically get seen quickly under the public system anyway?

There is a huge lack of clarity as to what the real benefit of health insurance is. If you pay privately to see a consultant, can you then not use the public system at all??? Ie would you HAVE to pay out of your own pocket for private surgery once you've paid privately to see the consultant? Or can you not see a consultant privately at all unless you have insurance?

I can afford to pay whatever it is to see a consultant (to avoid the waiting times) and yes I could afford the 6k to pay for surgery (I've saved that by not spending money on health insurance in the past few years).

It's like that VHI advert where the mum describes having her twins born early. She said there was nothing to worry about, she just signed a form. But under the public system, if her twins were born early it's not like she wouldn't have been looked after anyway, as it was an emergency situation IYSWIM?

I am really struggling to work out the exact situations where private health insurance is a benefit, or in other words, you'd be screwed by not having it. I can afford to pay to see a consultant, and I can afford most types of day surgery. Do I still need health insurance?

The system is really opaque and I've spent 3 years trying to work it out and I'm still no bloody closer to an answer. If anyone could help clarify these points I would be really appreciative!

sorry to drag this up but ive been searching the subject all day and these questions are exactly what i want answers to. I really cant see the benefit if you can afford to pay for the elective surgeries!

Gael23

adamski8 wrote: »

sorry to drag this up but ive been searching the subject all day and these questions are exactly what i want answers to. I really cant see the benefit if you can afford to pay for the elective surgeries!

Well a hospital bed is around €1000 per night so if you have that sort of money lying around then well and good but very few people good.
Since posting here last, I have downgraded mine to only cover hospital stays but will never give it up

Ms Happy

I have health insurance for the past 2 years, I opted for private cover purely out of fear of having to wait on the public system.

Glad I did!! I did terrible damage to my knee in an accident, torn ACL/MCL/PCL dislocated knee and knee cap and cartilage damage. I was taken to (a public) hospital by ambulance (passed out with the pain en route) Had an xray on my leg about an hour after I arrived, bunch of painkillers and a set of crutches later I was sent on my way! The doctor in A&E said "you may have torn something" that was the only explanation/diagnosis I got from them!

There was no MRI machine in the hospital, if I didn't have private health insurance I would have been screwed! Called VHI the following morning, had an MRI that day in a private hospital that day. Operation 2 days later, followed by a second.

Nearly a week in hospital altogether, 2 operations, MRI and consultant fees. I dread to think what would have happened to me if I didn't have private cover!!!!

(I did think of writing a letter of complaint to the public hospital but that would be a waste of time and energy!)

smallbrowncat

ryanf the cost of a hospital bed as public patient is €75 up to a maximum of €750 a year. The €1000 is cost if you are in hospital as a private patient - not the situation I am wondering about where you get the info you need from a consultant, then go back to the public system. See this link on Citizens Info for more.

Ms Happy I am very glad your knee is much better! However your story does not answer my question. If you were unsatisfied with the public care, you could have called the private hospital or another provider yourself and booked an MRI scan (which can cost from €200+ at some clinics, so not ludicrously expensive). If you were in my situation, having received the results of the scan, surely you could have decided to (1) pay for your knee surgery yourself with money you had saved by not paying exorbitant health insurance premiums for many years (possibly €2k+, depending on the type - I know the cost as my husband has had knee procedures before!) or (2) gone to your GP and asked for a public referral to a consultant based on the info from your MRI.

Please could you clarify the magic extra thing that your VHI is supposed to cover in this situation? Is it just because people wouldn't put aside money for a rainy day (and that could include medical expenses) - they'd rather pay over the odds "just in case"?

And btw, you should complain about the public hospital - nothing will change if people don't stand up and complain about poor service. I have complained about poor service in a public hospital and I got an apology and meeting with management where they used my experience to plan how to improve things for other patients (who knows if it's lead to change, but hey it was worth doing).

I am tempted to contact the Health Insurance Authority with this question. My suspicion after much research, and all this time, is that you can indeed switch between public and private systems.

NuMarvel

smallbrowncat wrote: »

I am tempted to contact the Health Insurance Authority with this question. My suspicion after much research, and all this time, is that you can indeed switch between public and private systems.

I asked the Dept of Health about this some time back. Someone can switch from private to public, but the person's placement on a public hospital waiting list should be where they would be if they were public all along. In other words, people switching back to the public system shouldn't have an advantage over people who have been in the public system all along.

There are some exceptions to this, such as maternity where switching isn't allowed, or urgent cases where a doctor may decide an early admission is required regardless. But in general, people can switch between the two, but they shouldn't have an advantage over those who have been in the public system all along.

smallbrowncat

Interesting NuMarvel, thanks for that. I've emailed the HIA, so will post their response when I get it.

Yes I thought that might be the case. My aim of going to see a consultant privately would be to find out more information so I could decide (1) do I want to pay for any procedure privately myself or (2) now have more information that my case is much more urgent than my GP may have thought, so I will get seen sooner than if I had not gone to see the consultant privately at all (ie I am now an urgent case).

NuMarvel

You'll certainly have the option of reverting to the public system after a private consultation. What will be up in the air is your placement on the public hospital waiting list, if admission is required. FYI, any out-patient tests the private consultant recommends will also have to be paid for privately.

I'll see if I can dig out a copy of the guidelines the DOH sent me that time. I know I have them somewhere.

Zaph

adamski8 wrote: »

sorry to drag this up but ive been searching the subject all day and these questions are exactly what i want answers to. I really cant see the benefit if you can afford to pay for the elective surgeries!

Plenty of reasons why it's worth paying for private health insurance in This thread.

Heisenberg1

Zaph wrote: »

Plenty of reasons why it's worth paying for private health insurance in This thread.

I have read some of the posts on that thread but that doesn't clear it up for me. Take your own post how much would your procedure have cost you if you had paid for it yourself?

Ms Happy

smallbrowncat wrote: »

Ms Happy I am very glad your knee is much better! However your story does not answer my question. If you were unsatisfied with the public care, you could have called the private hospital or another provider yourself and booked an MRI scan (which can cost from €200+ at some clinics, so not ludicrously expensive). If you were in my situation, having received the results of the scan, surely you could have decided to (1) pay for your knee surgery yourself with money you had saved by not paying exorbitant health insurance premiums for many years (possibly €2k+, depending on the type - I know the cost as my husband has had knee procedures before!) or (2) gone to your GP and asked for a public referral to a consultant based on the info from your MRI.

Please could you clarify the magic extra thing that your VHI is supposed to cover in this situation? Is it just because people wouldn't put aside money for a rainy day (and that could include medical expenses) - they'd rather pay over the odds "just in case"?.

Simple answer: I didn't have €6k lying around

I don't think the rates are exorbitant, I am only paying in a few years so I've actually gotten way more out of VHI than I have paid in.

To put it simply, VHI is a luxury for some I consider it a necessity

Geuze

smallbrowncat wrote: »

I still don't know whether to get health insurance. My first option if my son was seriously sick (and didn't need immediate hospitalisation) would be to take him home to New Zealand.

Is it worth getting health insurance for just 2-3 years? My gut says no. But I'd be really interested in hearing what other parents have to say!

If a child is "seriously sick" then they will get treated.

Now, if it's not serious, then the waiting times for non-urgent elective treatment can be long.

Zaph

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

I have read some of the posts on that thread but that doesn't clear it up for me. Take your own post how much would your procedure have cost you if you had paid for it yourself?

I've no idea, it was 16 years ago. However the point of my story wasn't specifically about the cost, it was the fact that I was able to have an operation a week later rather than more than six weeks later. That would have been more than six weeks of seriously debilitating pain and probably being housebound for all of that time, as opposed to being up on my feet a week later.

However I do know that the continuous treatment I have every few months costs approximately €400 each time. I ring my surgeon's secretary when it needs doing, and generally a week or two later I have it done. There's not a hope that I could get it done a) that quickly; or b) as regularly as I need it if I didn't have private health insurance. It's a five minute procedure, but without it I suffer serious pain and my mobility becomes increasingly impaired. The cost comparison between paying for private health insurance vs. going public or paying for it yourself is only one element. For me, and many other people, not being forced to wait 18 months for a consultation or treatment far outweighs the cost.