Half-baked Republican Presidential Fruitcakes (and fellow confections)

JPNelsforearm

ROFL

Jinkies scoob, its not Donald Trump at all,
its the N......N.........N........N.........N.........N.......Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei!

Someone call John Oliver, we need someone to shout at us, and tell us its the current year.

Custardpi

That lazy Trump=Hitler stuff isn't going to work & is probably completely counterproductive. The reason why he's gaining such traction is because of his status as an "outsider" candidate & as an underdog. Insulting him as many on the Democratic side are resorting to is only going to make his supporters & potential supporters more angry & more likely to get the vote out. His opponents really have to get smarter about how they tackle the threat of Trump.

PopePalpatine

Remind me, who thought it was a good idea to start up a mortgage company in 2006? Not John Oliver, that's for sure.

Custardpi

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Remind me, who thought it was a good idea to start up a mortgage company in 2006? Not John Oliver, that's for sure.

Not to defend Trump's business skills (which are pretty much non-existant except in the marketing of his personal brand) but you should watch the film "The Big Short" for a great account of what happened there. The extent to which incredibly well educated & experienced people in the financial services industry failed to see the housing crash coming until it was far too late is mind-blowing in retrospect. Some did of course & made a packet but the collective myopia present in the industry was far wider than just Trump.

PopePalpatine

Custardpi wrote: »

Not to defend Trump's business skills (which are pretty much non-existant except in the marketing of his personal brand) but you should watch the film "The Big Short" for a great account of what happened there. The extent to which incredibly well educated & experienced people in the financial services industry failed to see the housing crash coming until it was far too late is mind-blowing in retrospect. Some did of course & made a packet but the collective myopia present in the industry was far wider than just Trump.

I've seen and enjoyed The Big Short too, but I do think that Trump's shortsightedness (maybe stubbornness towards anyone warning of a meltdown too) in setting up a mortgage company in 2006 is relevant if he's running for national office.

Custardpi

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I've seen and enjoyed The Big Short too, but I do think that Trump's shortsightedness (maybe stubbornness towards anyone warning of a meltdown too) in setting up a mortgage company in 2006 is relevant if he's running for national office.

If I personally had a vote there I'd consider it relevant too. Unfortunately his growing reputation for being "unstumpable" will lead many to overlook this & his other flaws. Trump isn't being judged as a normal candidate in a normal race would be. He's the anti-candidate - a whole other ball game as the Americans would say.

orubiru

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

If you are going to bury someone, or trying to, you cant go about it half heartedly as as the likes of Rubio and Cruz do. They just end up looking weaker for it.

He called Cruz a "crazy zealot" to his face, he's hilarious. No one else would call out these religious headbangers like that.

Yeah, I've been doing my "homework" on Trumps campaign and it's baffling to me how guys like Rubio and Cruz are even fit to be politicians at all.

Trump makes them look like weak, sniveling, idiots. They are supposed to be candidates to run the most powerful nation on the planet and they are constantly outwitted and stumped by a star of reality TV.

The media are just as bad. Trump basically says to the public look at how the media manipulates you by avoiding talking about the real issues and focusing on stupid frivolous nonsense, aren't you sick of this? The media responds by ignoring the real issues and calling him names AND they pat themselves on the back for doing it.

Trump is popular for a reason and nobody seems to be all that willing to really look into why he is popular. It's easier to just reduce his supporters down to these racist, simpleton, stereotypes.

The whole thing is completely absurd.

This was a good article I found. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-america-made-donald-trump-unstoppable-20160224

This video, posted on another thread, shows how badly the media are handling the whole thing.

They go right ahead and cut the guy off because he is going against their narrative. To any neutral observer here, this should be a massive red flag that MSNBC have an agenda and they are willing to outright silence someone who is about to contradict them.

So sick of seeing these morons laughing and clapping like seals when they've got some snarky, "witty" buzzword to use against Trump.

It looks like they have no rebuttal to his points. It looks like they are incapable of attacking his policies. They are basically resorting to name-calling.

So with Clinton people will be looking at her political career history and controversies. With Trump people will be saying "Hurr... durr... Drumph" and patting themselves on the back for being smarter than these dumb dumb, low income, Trump supporters.

The Randy Riverbeast

Seeing Cruz as an alternative has made me warm up to trump. Trump says stuff to get attention and pander to certain groups of Republican voters, Cruz actually shares the views of those groups.

KomradeBishop

Custardpi wrote: »

Not to defend Trump's business skills (which are pretty much non-existant except in the marketing of his personal brand) but you should watch the film "The Big Short" for a great account of what happened there. The extent to which incredibly well educated & experienced people in the financial services industry failed to see the housing crash coming until it was far too late is mind-blowing in retrospect. Some did of course & made a packet but the collective myopia present in the industry was far wider than just Trump.

Actually, that's one of the most misleading/worst points about the film - the high ups in industry didn't fail to see it coming, there was massive industry-wide fraud perpetuating the crisis - high ups were guaranteed to make big money in salaries + bonuses (among other payments) to enrich themselves as the bubble went up, and could just walk away with no consequence as things burst, to go on making money elsewhere.

The financial industry knew there was no losing - they knew there'd be a bailout, and that QE (i.e. pissing free money at the financial industry and wealthy) would happen - they had all they needed to win easy money on the way up to the crisis, and on the way down - as it remains today.

The film explains a lot of things well, but it also puts forward a misleading/propagandistic view that the industry didn't see it all coming - downplaying the gigantic level of fraud.

Custardpi

The film covers the fraud aspect pretty well. Some of the higher ups did see it coming & used their relationships with rating agencies & regulators to keep the scam going. Others (mainly those lower down the chain) didn't however & lost millions as a result.

oscarBravo

orubiru wrote: »

Trump basically says to the public look at how the media manipulates you by avoiding talking about the real issues and focusing on stupid frivolous nonsense, aren't you sick of this? The media responds by ignoring the real issues and calling him names AND they pat themselves on the back for doing it.

What I find fascinating is that, all the while, Trump isn't talking about real issues either - but his supporters are so busy cheering on his criticism of the media for not talking about real issues, they don't seem to notice.

orubiru

oscarBravo wrote: »

What I find fascinating is that, all the while, Trump isn't talking about real issues either - but his supporters are so busy cheering on his criticism of the media for not talking about real issues, they don't seem to notice.

Yeah, it's an absolute joke.

It's like the entire 2016 US election process exists solely for the entertainment of people on the internet.

KomradeBishop

Custardpi wrote: »

The film covers the fraud aspect pretty well. Some of the higher ups did see it coming & used their relationships with rating agencies & regulators to keep the scam going. Others (mainly those lower down the chain) didn't however & lost millions as a result.

It doesn't cover the scale of it well though - it plays that down a fair bit - and another thing it softballs, is the people in the film (who are portrayed as 'unlikely hero's) who gain from seeing the crash in advance, who created the actual financial instruments for shorting - they actually significantly drove the demand for mortgages, and pushed what could have been a small/localized crisis, into a worldwide/international one.

robindch

recedite wrote: »

Its not a bad quote (unless you're a sheep)
They have been trying to "entrap" The Donald since last year, and now they are pi$$ing themselves with excitement because he has finally retweeted one of their tweets. A sad existence really.

Not all that sad - it shows that Trump simply doesn't care what he says and having been entrapped, refuses to back down. But it's a sideshow - his refusal to disavow David Duke and the KKK is more worrying.

orubiru wrote: »

Trump is popular for a reason and nobody seems to be all that willing to really look into why he is popular. It's easier to just reduce his supporters down to these racist, simpleton, stereotypes.

He's popular because he's amusing, albeit in a fairly sick way; people enjoy his simplistic solutions - who knows whether they think they might work; he reflects popular anger from low-end voters towards the political establishment; and the fact that his emotions appear to be genuine.

Cruz and the rest of them could have learned a lot from watching his performances - it matters a lot less what you say, than how you say it.

orubiru

robindch wrote: »

Not all that sad - it shows that Trump simply doesn't care what he says and having been entrapped, refuses to back down. But it's a sideshow - his refusal to disavow David Duke and the KKK is more worrying.He's popular because he's amusing, albeit in a fairly sick way; people enjoy his simplistic solutions - who knows whether they think they might work; he reflects popular anger from low-end voters towards the political establishment; and the fact that his emotions appear to be genuine.

Cruz and the rest of them could have learned a lot from watching his performances - it matters a lot less what you say, than how you say it.

I'd argue that the clamour to have him disavow them is more worrying to be honest.

David Duke and members of the KKK have as much right to vote as anyone in the US. They are obviously gonna vote for somebody, right?

So they say they will vote for Trump. OK. Let's say the media gets their wish and Trump tells them "no, I don't want your vote" are the media going to find out which candidate these guys will now vote for and hound them until they disavow too?

Maybe they should just ban bad people from voting?

I'm not about to defend the KKK here but I am sure that plenty of dodgy people are voting for Sanders or Clinton. This idea of hounding candidates to publicly distance themselves from bad people who might support them is stupid. I'm sure that members of the KKK are pretty awful people (though I don't actually know any) but they have the right to vote and they are going to vote for somebody.

Should Hillary Clinton's next speech begin with "If you are a rapist, don't vote for me. If you worked in financial services and wrecked the economy, don't vote for me. If you've ever vandalized something, don't vote for me."?

Where do we draw the line between "this guy is OK, go chase his vote" and "this guy is terrible, tell him not to vote for you"?

There is a spectrum of bad behaviors and abhorrent ideas running from "pretty bad" to "REALLY bad". Obviously racism is bad. Theft is bad. Dishonesty is bad. A racist is worse than a thief and a thief is worse than a liar, right?

Then where do we mark the point where someone crosses over from being encouraged to vote for their preferred candidate to being disavowed by their preferred candidate?

Trump is just a joke candidate, in my opinion, but a lot of his appeal seems to be that he is perceived as sticking it to The Establishment. This desperate scrambling by the media to label him "Racist" (maybe he is, I don't know) just reinforces the points he is making. They are resorting to trickery in order to bring him down.

As another poster said, this also has the effect of moving the spotlight away from Trumps own trickery and away from his complete lack of substance.

Instead of attacking his policies or even his suitability for presidency they are trying to twist a story so they can slap the "Racist" label on him. This will achieve what exactly?

If it comes down to name calling and petty mud-slinging then he will beat them with experience.

So, the KKK will vote for Donald Trump? Who cares? Surely they do not have that many members these days? I can't imagine they'd have enough power to swing the vote one way or the other?

The KKK seem more like a boogeyman than any kind of credible threat to American society. Why would anyone care who a handful of insignificant nutjobs are voting for?

Christy42

orubiru wrote: »

Trump is just a joke candidate, in my opinion, but a lot of his appeal seems to be that he is perceived as sticking it to The Establishment. This desperate scrambling by the media to label him "Racist" (maybe he is, I don't know) just reinforces the points he is making. They are resorting to trickery in order to bring him down.

What do you call people who calls Mexicans rapists or wants to label all Muslims? It isn't trickery if it is true. I mean I get when these words are used with politicians it frequently is trickery but no other politician would be that blatant or get away with it if they were. At this point I am convinced that Trump could kill a kitten on stage and he would still get votes.

Oh and the union of rapists in America or whatever decided to back Sanders I would expect him to say that he disagrees very strongly with what they stand for. Trump didn't do that.

JPNelsforearm

Christy42 wrote: »

What do you call people who calls Mexicans rapists or wants to label all Muslims? It isn't trickery if it is true. I mean I get when these words are used with politicians it frequently is trickery but no other politician would be that blatant or get away with it if they were. At this point I am convinced that Trump could kill a kitten on stage and he would still get votes.

Oh and the union of rapists in America or whatever decided to back Sanders I would expect him to say that he disagrees very strongly with what they stand for. Trump didn't do that.

80% of women illegally crossing the border show signs of sexual assault, that is what Donald was referring to, "[Illegals] are bringing crime, drugs, they're rapists". There was nothing incorrect in what he said.

robdonn

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

80% of women illegally crossing the border show signs of sexual assault, that is what Donald was referring to, "[Illegals] are bringing crime, drugs, they're rapists". There was nothing incorrect in what he said.

Source?

JPNelsforearm

robdonn wrote: »

Source?

http://fusion.net/story/17321/is-rape-the-price-to-pay-for-migrant-women-chasing-the-american-dream/

Amnesty puts the figure at 60%, these guys put it at 80%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iayMZ52s3EI

this is a Univision, hispanic network production, that is where Donald Trump got his figure. Nothing he said was incorrect.

Christy42

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

80% of women illegally crossing the border show signs of sexual assault, that is what Donald was referring to, "[Illegals] are bringing crime, drugs, they're rapists". There was nothing incorrect in what he said.

So the illegals are being raped is what you are saying.

JPNelsforearm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

80% of women illegally crossing the border show signs of sexual assault, that is what Donald was referring to, "B]Illegals[/B are bringing crime, drugs, they're rapists". There was nothing incorrect in what he said.

Unless that 80% show signs of 'having committed sexual assault'; I'd disagree with that final sentence an awful lot!

JPNelsforearm

Christy42 wrote: »

So the illegals are being raped is what you are saying.

Yes, by other illegals.....thus rapists are being let into the country, even using the lower Amnesty international figure of 60%, its not just a handful of sadists doing the raping......

JPNelsforearm

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless that 80% show signs of 'having committed sexual assault'; I'd disagree with that final sentence an awful lot!

Obviously he was being glib. But he's not wrong.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/07/illegal_aliens_murder_at_a_much_higher_rate_than_us_citizens_do.html

"As for those federal prisoners, the GAO states, “In fiscal year 2005, the criminal alien population in federal prisons was around 27 percent of the total inmate population, and from fiscal years 2006 through 2010 remained consistently around 25 percent.”

The Washington Post cites an even higher number for 2013, 38.6%, yet dismisses those federal numbers as “not indicative of general crime trends of non-citizens,” because most criminals are incarcerated in state or local facilities"

orubiru

Christy42 wrote: »

What do you call people who calls Mexicans rapists or wants to label all Muslims? It isn't trickery if it is true. I mean I get when these words are used with politicians it frequently is trickery but no other politician would be that blatant or get away with it if they were. At this point I am convinced that Trump could kill a kitten on stage and he would still get votes.

Oh and the union of rapists in America or whatever decided to back Sanders I would expect him to say that he disagrees very strongly with what they stand for. Trump didn't do that.

OK, so Trump is a racist. Fine.

How is the tactic of shouting "TRUMP IS A RACIST" from the rooftops working out?

It doesn't matter if he disavows them or not. Talking about it just distracts from actual issues. When they should be asking him about policy they are demanding that he disavow a small, ridiculous, irrelevant, group of social outcasts and then wailing about it when he just brushes them off. It's become a joke at this point.

I cannot imagine a situation where Sanders or Clinton would lose in an election versus Trump. Unless there is some screw-up of monumental proportions.

It is my opinion that silly things like the media whining that "he won't even disavow the KKK" are sowing the seeds of that monumental screw-up where DONALD F'ING TRUMP somehow manages to become President of the USA.

They are in the process of creating a perfect storm of idiocy that will end with a pantomime villain in the White House.

People who want to stop (stump?) Trump have good intentions, I think. The methods though? Not so good. Maybe even counter-productive.

I found this one on another thread and I think it's a great example of the media's incompetence.

The goal of the segment, I think, was to at least hint at racist elements within Trumps supporters. So they cut to a black guy basically saying racism stuff is BS. Cut right back to the studio. DON'T LISTEN TO THAT GUY! BLACK PEOPLE DON'T SUPPORT TRUMP!

You couldn't actually script a screw-up like that in your wildest imagination. It's like you are watching something from WWE at this point.

They tried to make a point about Trump supporters being racist but make an absolute mess of it and now it's all over the internet.

You have a so called "liberal" media who aren't quite as intelligent as they thought they were. All the witty buzzwords and click bait headlines that you see all over social media are not having the impact that they expected. I see friends from Ireland, England, Australia etc sharing "Trump is Racist" stuff all day long. They can't even vote.

All they want is to give themselves a pat on the back "we're good people, aren't we"? No. You are massive, own-goal scoring, eejits.

"At this point I am convinced that Trump could kill a kitten on stage and he would still get votes."

In my opinion you are missing an element here. Trump could kill a kitten on stage and the incompetent "witty" response of his opponents and the media would get him more votes. LOL #TrumpKillsKittens

Akrasia

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Yes, by other illegals.....thus rapists are being let into the country, even using the lower Amnesty international figure of 60%, its not just a handful of sadists doing the raping......

Look, people traffickers are often times the lowest form of human life.

immigrants need to run the gauntlet of these human scum on the way to the hope of a better life. To say that this means that the immigrants themselves are all rapists is unbelievably insulting.

When the Irish were fleeing the famine on coffin ships to America, undoubtedly many women were raped, many people died due to the conditions on those ships. When they arrived, they were often exploited by the traffickers, many of whom were Irish immigrants themselves.
Does this make Irish immigrants fleeing starvation rapists and thieves?

JPNelsforearm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Obviously he was being glib. But he's not wrong.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/07/illegal_aliens_murder_at_a_much_higher_rate_than_us_citizens_do.html

"As for those federal prisoners, the GAO states, “In fiscal year 2005, the criminal alien population in federal prisons was around 27 percent of the total inmate population, and from fiscal years 2006 through 2010 remained consistently around 25 percent.”

The Washington Post cites an even higher number for 2013, 38.6%, yet dismisses those federal numbers as “not indicative of general crime trends of non-citizens,” because most criminals are incarcerated in state or local facilities"

You are now arguing the point using a different citation (one that is far more adept at backing up your assertion than previous).

Considering the original citation as evidence to suggest that 'Illegals are Rapists' is clearly wrong though. Your citation supported the assertion that 'Illegals have been raped'.

The second article (one in the quote above) is far more relevant indeed, and I'd suggest that you banish the previous article from the argument in future.

JPNelsforearm

Akrasia wrote: »

Look, people traffickers are often times the lowest form of human life.

immigrants need to run the gauntlet of these human scum on the way to the hope of a better life. To say that this means that the immigrants themselves are all rapists is unbelievably insulting.

When the Irish were fleeing the famine on coffin ships to America, undoubtedly many women were raped, many people died due to the conditions on those ships. When they arrived, they were often exploited by the traffickers, many of whom were Irish immigrants themselves.
Does this make Irish immigrants fleeing starvation rapists and thieves?

Without knowing the figures I cant make such a judgement. But lets apply the central American/Mexican figures to Irish women crossing over the sea during the famine. Then yes, a large minority of men clearly are rapists. An even larger number are criminals.
So yes, if the Irish fleeing the famine matched the crime figures say of people from North Africa/ME coming to Europe, or illegals crossing the US border, then its a obviously a valid statement to say "they are not sending their best, they bringing crime, they are rapists" in the glib manner in which Trump said it, because they are.
We arent talking about population groups as a whole, we are talking about a section within a section of South American societies, these people deliberately avoid applying for Green cards etc or even travelling to other safe South American countries. Why is that? We know they have outsized crime rates compared to legal South American immigrants, so there is definitely a criminal element in their make up.

Read the link I posted above, look at the crime stats.

Christy42

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Yes, by other illegals.....thus rapists are being let into the country, even using the lower Amnesty international figure of 60%, its not just a handful of sadists doing the raping......

That is the number of victims. That says nothing about the number of rapists. A single rapist can have multiple victims. Given that these women have to go through human traffickers it is very likely that a small number of ***** could get their hands on a lot of vulnerable women. Are you going to call illegal immigrants human traffickers now? It seems highly likely that the people attacking these women are a subset of people getting them from one side of the border to another. Heck some of them probably aren't even immigrants given there is money to be made there (though illegal immigrants would have experience of the border).

orubiru wrote: »

OK, so Trump is a racist. Fine.

How is the tactic of shouting "TRUMP IS A RACIST" from the rooftops working out?

I cannot imagine a situation where Sanders or Clinton would lose in an election versus Trump. Unless there is some screw-up of monumental proportions.

It is my opinion that silly things like the media whining that "he won't even disavow the KKK" are sowing the seeds of that monumental screw-up where DONALD F'ING TRUMP somehow manages to become President of the USA.

They are in the process of creating a perfect storm of idiocy that will end with a pantomime villain in the White House.

People who want to stop (stump?) Trump have good intentions, I think. The methods though? Not so good. Maybe even counter-productive.

I found this one on another thread and I think it's a great example of the media's incompetence.

The goal of the segment, I think, was to at least hint at racist elements within Trumps supporters. So they cut to a black guy basically saying racism stuff is BS. Cut right back to the studio. DON'T LISTEN TO THAT GUY! BLACK PEOPLE DON'T SUPPORT TRUMP!

You couldn't actually script a screw-up like that in your wildest imagination. It's like you are watching something from WWE at this point.

They tried to make a point about Trump supporters being racist but make an absolute mess of it and now it's all over the internet.

You have a so called "liberal" media who aren't quite as intelligent as they thought they were. All the witty buzzwords and click bait headlines that you see all over social media are not having the impact that they expected. I see friends from Ireland, England, Australia etc sharing "Trump is Racist" stuff all day long. They can't even vote.

All they want is to give themselves a pat on the back "we're good people, aren't we"? No. You are massive, own-goal scoring, eejits.

"At this point I am convinced that Trump could kill a kitten on stage and he would still get votes."

In my opinion you are missing an element here. Trump could kill a kitten on stage and the incompetent "witty" response of his opponents and the media would get him more votes. LOL #TrumpKillsKittens

I think it is just utter disbelief and underestimating how little Trump voters care about these things. I mean I really don't think anyone understands why these people vote for him. As far as I am concerned it shouldn't matter if the media make a mess of taking him apart, people still shouldn't vote for people who say these things.

JPNelsforearm

Deleted User wrote: »

You are now arguing the point using a different citation (one that is far more adept at backing up your assertion than previous).

Considering the original citation as evidence to suggest that 'Illegals are Rapists' is clearly wrong though. Your citation supported the assertion that 'Illegals have been raped'.

The second article (one in the quote above) is far more relevant indeed, and I'd suggest that you banish the previous article from the argument in future.

I was talking about where Trump got the 80% figure from, that is where he came up with the "rapists" line.

JPNelsforearm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

I was talking about where Trump got the 80% figure from, that is where he came up with the "rapists" line.

What does the figure give us? (Estimate of percentage of Illegal immigrant Females that have suffered sexual assault)

What did Trump suggest the figure gave us? ...................

Are these the same things?