For anyone interested in gaining a Maths qualification

Jane98

Is it just Maths that you can gain credit by the teaching council for completing some OU modules or can this be done with any subjects, for example economics or accounting as I did both in my first and second year of my Applied Maths degree?

rainbowtrout

Jane98 wrote: »

Is it just Maths that you can gain credit by the teaching council for completing some OU modules or can this be done with any subjects, for example economics or accounting as I did both in my first and second year of my Applied Maths degree?

You would have to check with the TC to see what modules you need to complete and where you could do them. It's just that they've actually gone on record and listed specific OU modules to get recognition to teach maths.

therunaround

Hi Rainbowtrout,
Having spoken to the Career Guidance Councillor today at my school about the OU courses she suggested looking at an evening maths course in Maynooth. I was wondering if you came across this course while researching your options?

I'm worried enough that I'l be stopped taking maths classes, had the junior cert honours class and they got 13 A's out of 30 in the class with 4 D's and no fails, Id be extremely disappointed if I was prevented from teaching it so going to be proactive. She mentioned that I may be able to claim some of the course fee through the school. Couldn't afford it myself with work being so scarce the last few years.

Edit: Found it there now myself on the Net, Id have to attend classes so Id have to get time off work which is a non-runner, have leaving certs and on a temporary contract. Wonder would the OU course be covered by the school. I see the funds paid to each individual are proportional to the numbers applying, so Id imagine there could be a lot of prospective maths people going down this route and it could get expensive for me.

I see from the ASTI link posted earlier in the thread that the dept are investigating training courses themselves. Maybe I am best off waiting for something on this, although it might never happen. I hope it does, as it would be a great way for the department to put its existing resources to very beneficial use.

If anyone knows or has any experience of other routes ye might let me know after the weekend (which i hope ye all enjoy).

rainbowtrout

therunaround wrote: »

Hi Rainbowtrout,
Having spoken to the Career Guidance Councillor today at my school about the OU courses she suggested looking at an evening maths course in Maynooth. I was wondering if you came across this course while researching your options?

I'm worried enough that I'l be stopped taking maths classes, had the junior cert honours class and they got 13 A's out of 30 in the class with 4 D's and no fails, Id be extremely disappointed if I was prevented from teaching it so going to be proactive. She mentioned that I may be able to claim some of the course fee through the school. Couldn't afford it myself with work being so scarce the last few years.

Edit: Found it there now myself on the Net, Id have to attend classes so Id have to get time off work which is a non-runner, have leaving certs and on a temporary contract. Wonder would the OU course be covered by the school. I see the funds paid to each individual are proportional to the numbers applying, so Id imagine there could be a lot of prospective maths people going down this route and it could get expensive for me.

I see from the ASTI link posted earlier in the thread that the dept are investigating training courses themselves. Maybe I am best off waiting for something on this, although it might never happen. I hope it does, as it would be a great way for the department to put its existing resources to very beneficial use.

If anyone knows or has any experience of other routes ye might let me know after the weekend (which i hope ye all enjoy).

Well I wanted to study maths because I liked maths but chose a degree with OU that would be recognised by the Teaching Council. I figured I may as well get use out of it in the long run.

I didn't research any other courses because I live in Roscommon so the vast majority of courses run by third level colleges in Ireland are not an option for me - many are run on weekday evenings so I am not in a position to attend.

It is expensive but you can claim tax relief from the revenue for it. If you were to do one module each year for three years it would keep the cost down.

I saw that ASTI link too. There's nothing concrete yet though. Not my call but I would be of the opinion to go ahead with the OU modules if you can afford them and get recognition for them rather than wait around to see what the Dept offer.

CorkMaths.ie

Open University in Ireland are giving a talk on this at MathsFest 2011 in Cork on 8th October where they will answer peoples questions about getting Maths added to their TC registration. There are lots of Project Maths based talks also going on that day, all organised by IMTA in Cork, free entry. All details on www.mathsfest.com

[Mods: hope its still ok to post in this forum, we have organised this event for free to give something for maths teachers finding it challenging at moment, especially a face to face talk about this Maths and TC registration]

therunaround

Thanks guys just concerned that Id lose maths before id have the courses completed but at least if it was started then Id have some hope.I like the maths as well so it wouldn't feel like a chore anyway. Thanks for that. And Il spin down to Cork that day too, definitely worth a look.

Rosita

therunaround wrote: »

I'm worried enough that I'l be stopped taking maths classes, had the junior cert honours class and they got 13 A's out of 30 in the class with 4 D's and no fails,

Your class achieved three times the national average in A grades. Assuming they are not entirely the progeny of Stephen Hawking and are a representative cross-section of the general student body, you are probably the most successful Maths teacher in the country...ever. I wouldn't worry about being stopped taking classes with such amazing results.

therunaround

Well thanks very much but it was more a case that they were the top class out of 4 and were all serious operators so they were really competitive (but in a good way if you know what I mean, they all got on).
Trouble is I have only the maths from 1st and 2nd year of college. I have taught myself everything else I need, its not the dark ages anymore, I can get all the maths I could ever need off the Net. The people in charge (government etc) seem to think that you wont learn anything unless you pay for it which is crap. Spending time on learning is more important than spending money on it. Id really rather spend the hour after school helping them with homework than driving to a university to learn stuff that Iv already taught myself.

TheDriver

awful really that you must get a box ticked but at least there is an avenue with the OU. I too am going to pop along to mathsfest as can actually pin down someone to talk to i hope and get my questions answered.

rainbowtrout

therunaround wrote: »

Well thanks very much but it was more a case that they were the top class out of 4 and were all serious operators so they were really competitive (but in a good way if you know what I mean, they all got on).
Trouble is I have only the maths from 1st and 2nd year of college. I have taught myself everything else I need, its not the dark ages anymore, I can get all the maths I could ever need off the Net. The people in charge (government etc) seem to think that you wont learn anything unless you pay for it which is crap. Spending time on learning is more important than spending money on it. Id really rather spend the hour after school helping them with homework than driving to a university to learn stuff that Iv already taught myself.

It might be worth contacting the Teaching Council and asking them what modules you need to complete. I only had maths in the first year of my degree and I only had to do three OU modules which were the ones listed in the ASTI magazine a few months back. If you have maths in second year as well, you may not have to do all three modules. One might be sufficient.

therunaround

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It might be worth contacting the Teaching Council and asking them what modules you need to complete. I only had maths in the first year of my degree and I only had to do three OU modules which were the ones listed in the ASTI magazine a few months back. If you have maths in second year as well, you may not have to do all three modules. One might be sufficient.

The maths would have been a fairly large statistics module which from my understanding and talking to people in similar situations would count towards to maths credits. I will get onto TC and update ye when they get back to me.

mazzie

just wondering if anyone has any information on what was said at the mathsfest re maths teaching - how u go about gaining the right qualifcation? am going around in circles when it comes to the TC

gabbytheking

Hi Guys, just wondering and its a big ask which I don't expect to be answered but would anyone be able to put a sample exam paper for each of the modules somewhere or would there be anywhere to get an idea of the materials to have an idea of the level of difficulty. Recommended texts etc would also help. I always loved maths but as I did a business/accounting subject for my degree which I suspect had very little maths in comparison to maybe eng or computer science students and I'm a little lost as to how hard maths can get.

Does anyone on this thread know if Quantitive techniques 8 Irish credits(Statistics type course) qualifies as first year maths? Secondly has anyone tried to assess their Grad Dip in Computing to see if they are qualified to teach IT Systems?

PS. I wonder why there's such a waiting list in the UK

Thanks any any advice at all is appreciated!!

rainbowtrout

There's no exam for MST121, it's all done by assignments and grade is awarded on a Pass/Fail basis, regardless of final mark.

I think I might have some exam papers for MS221 and M208 at home on my computer. I'll check later, but I don't know if I can post them here, but if anyone wants them, PM your email and I'll send them on.

A friend of mine is doing both MST121 and MS221 so I have pdf copies of the assignments she is doing as she was showing them to me, which is a reasonable indication of the material on the course

You don't need any texts. They provide course booklets which cover everything you need to know on the course. While you could go and buy a maths book there isn't any need.

sarahmc92

Just wondering if anyone knows what Maths modules I'd have to complete with OU to be recognised by the Teaching Council? I'm a UL Woodwork teacher and we did Maths modules in the 1st and 2nd semesters.
I've read somewhere else that i would just have to do M208 but it appears here that I'd have to do two more?
Not to be lazy or anything I fully intend to ring the TC tomorrow but if anyone had the info this evening it would be great.

rainbowtrout

sarahmc92 wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone knows what Maths modules I'd have to complete with OU to be recognised by the Teaching Council? I'm a UL Woodwork teacher and we did Maths modules in the 1st and 2nd semesters.
I've read somewhere else that i would just have to do M208 but it appears here that I'd have to do two more?
Not to be lazy or anything I fully intend to ring the TC tomorrow but if anyone had the info this evening it would be great.

Modules listed in first post on thread. I also did first year maths in UL.

sarahmc92

Thanks a million

MathsManiac

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but in case anyone missed the announcement, the government-funded programme for upskilling "out-of-field" maths teachers to bring them up to registration requirement standards is finally off the ground.

See here: http://www.ul.ie/news-centre/features/ul-to-lead-delivery-of-national-training-programme-for-mathematics-teachers

google08

Has anyone gone down the OU route that didn't have maths in first year of their undergrad?
I have received the following reply from Teaching Council this morning:

The Teaching Council do have a recognised route with the Open University however this option is only open to those who have studied a minimum of 10 ECTS credits in their undergraduate degree. For those who have studied a minimum of 10 ECTS credits in their undergraduate degree the following Open University modules are suitable:

Essential Maths 1 (MST124), Essential Maths 2 (MST125), Introducing Statistics (M140)and M208 Pure Mathematics.

However has you have not completed a minimum of 10 ECTS credits in your undergraduate degree the only recognised route at present to add Mathematics as an additional subject would be for you to complete the following:

The completion of a minimum of 10 ECTS credits of first year university level Mathematics. This study should be comprised of at least 10 ECTS with one or more full modules taken in one or more of the following core areas (1) Analysis (2) Algebra (3) Geometry (4) Probability & Statistics.

AND

· Completion of a Higher Diploma in Mathematics / Mathematical Studies offered at one of the National Universities of Ireland i.e. Maynooth University, UCD, UCC etc


Anyone any ideas on how I could get around this?
If I do the 10ECTS from first year university level maths could I then do the four OU courses that the TC have listed above?

Thanks

sarahmc92

Hi, I would imagine it depends on whether you have a teaching degree to start with? Have you done a Dip? If you have then they are saying you need to do 10ECT credits with a university and then study the four OU modules they have listed.

Your post has me very worried as a few years ago I called the TC to ask what modules I needed to study to be able to teach Maths and I was told MST121, MS221 and M208.
Does anyone know anything about this? Is it because the OU is changing it's modules?

rainbowtrout

sarahmc92 wrote: »

Hi, I would imagine it depends on whether you have a teaching degree to start with? Have you done a Dip? If you have then they are saying you need to do 10ECT credits with a university and then study the four OU modules they have listed.

Your post has me very worried as a few years ago I called the TC to ask what modules I needed to study to be able to teach Maths and I was told MST121, MS221 and M208.
Does anyone know anything about this? Is it because the OU is changing it's modules?

OU updated some of their modules recently and have changed the module codes, they are pretty much the same thing just with new names.

sarahmc92

Thanks Rainbowtrout I actually called them in a panic after that and the modules I am doing are fine. I found the email where they told me that too. It seems they have added on a module though and I was worried about that. Did you end up teaching maths at all after you did them?

rainbowtrout

sarahmc92 wrote: »

Thanks Rainbowtrout I actually called them in a panic after that and the modules I am doing are fine. I found the email where they told me that too. It seems they have added on a module though and I was worried about that. Did you end up teaching maths at all after you did them?

I've taught some PLC maths and I have a little bit of resource on my timetable this year, but I teach physics now so it comes in useful there. I'd say that extra stats module has come in because of Project Maths, but I had that one done anyway when I was studying with OU.

sarahmc92

That's great its coming in useful for you. I am just starting MS221 and I took a break last year so am really dreading getting back in to it!

google08

Thanks for the reply I'm in the middle of my PGE at the moment with Hibernation. Have English and Geography. I'm not in a position to travel to a college to do the 10 credits so was wondering if maybe the OU discovering maths module might be enough?? TC very hard to get replies from :-(

sarahmc92

google08 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply I'm in the middle of my PGE at the moment with Hibernation. Have English and Geography. I'm not in a position to travel to a college to do the 10 credits so was wondering if maybe the OU discovering maths module might be enough?? TC very hard to get replies from :-(

I am not sure to tell the truth. I do know that I rang them today and the guy on the phone was very helpful. It seems they are cracking down on it a bit. It's a lot of an ask if you haven't done maths at uni to do all of those modules plus a dip in maths. You'd have spent so much money doing them all it would hardly be worth your while.

google08

Thanks for the reply. Maybe it's just too much. I might just stick with the subjects that I have. I have a real interest in Maths though, god knows why I didn't do it in my primary degree :-( Hindsight is a great thing.
I might ring them tomorrow.

clearview99

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I've taught some PLC maths and I have a little bit of resource on my timetable this year, but I teach physics now so it comes in useful there. I'd say that extra stats module has come in because of Project Maths, but I had that one done anyway when I was studying with OU.

Hi Rainbowtrout! You seem to be fairly knowledgeable on this sort of stuff so thought I'd ask - I'm qualified HE and RE teacher but looking to add physics to my subjects - I have physics as part of my undergrad - completed one module as part of my 2nd year (Sep-Dec), not sure how many ect's. Is there any way of working with this prior learning to get suitably qualified to add physics (and I assume science for JC) to my list of teaching subjects? Any help greatly appreciated - open to any means of study - OU possibly an option?
Thanks in advance!

rainbowtrout

clearview99 wrote: »

Hi Rainbowtrout! You seem to be fairly knowledgeable on this sort of stuff so thought I'd ask - I'm qualified HE and RE teacher but looking to add physics to my subjects - I have physics as part of my undergrad - completed one module as part of my 2nd year (Sep-Dec), not sure how many ect's. Is there any way of working with this prior learning to get suitably qualified to add physics (and I assume science for JC) to my list of teaching subjects? Any help greatly appreciated - open to any means of study - OU possibly an option?
Thanks in advance!

Funny, that's exactly what I'm doing at the moment. It's not as easy or straightforward as the maths route.

I rang the TC about 2 years ago. I have 18 credits of physics in my original degree. So to bring that up to the current 54 credits or after 2017 it's 60 credits, I have a fair bit of work to do. I asked what would be suitable. First of all I was given a list of topics I had to cover, that part isn't so bad. I asked about the practical nature of the subject and was told that I would have to do modules that included labs, which is of course totally fair.

So that meant OU was wiped out instantly as an option. Some of their theoretical modules would probably be fine for the theoretical aspects of physics such as quantum, but definitely not for mechanics, light etc.

Also where I live the closest university (with suitable modules) is 1 hour 40 away from me. Stumbling block number 2.

However I enrolled in NUIM in Sept 13 as an occasional student, and registered for all the second year physics modules in their Science Education degree which is 20 credits.

Even if I had wanted to, I wasn't allowed do any first year modules as I had them done in first year in my original degree.

My school worked my timetable last year so I had a half day so I could attend the lab each week. The college uses moodle and all the lecture notes are up there so I don't attend lectures (due to geography). I did all the second year modules last year.

This year I am enrolled in all of the third year physics module in the Science Ed degree, another 20 credits. I asked if I could do 2 of the fourth year ones at the same time so I could get them out of the way but they said no, which is fair enough, and realistically it would have been a hell of a workload. I'm at the same craic again this year, half day from school worked into my timetable so I can attend college once a week.

I'll be back there next year to complete some fourth year modules to make up the remaining credits and hit the topics I don't have.

I chose to follow the modules of that degree because the degree is recognised for physics (and their other science electives) by the TC so I figured it would cause me a lot less grief when it comes to assessment.

I'm coming from a maths, chemistry, software engineering background, so while the material is manageable some of it is quite tough. I'm sitting here looking at circuit diagrams in electronics at the moment, doing an assignment and my head is fried.



In a nutshell, this is working for me and I hope I don't have any issues next year registering the subject. There is no straightforward path.

Also to register for Junior Science, I think you have to have at least 10 credits each of biology, chemistry and physics in your degree.

PM if you want to ask anything else specific.

clearview99

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Funny, that's exactly what I'm doing at the moment. It's not as easy or straightforward as the maths route.

I rang the TC about 2 years ago. I have 18 credits of physics in my original degree. So to bring that up to the current 54 credits or after 2017 it's 60 credits, I have a fair bit of work to do. I asked what would be suitable. First of all I was given a list of topics I had to cover, that part isn't so bad. I asked about the practical nature of the subject and was told that I would have to do modules that included labs, which is of course totally fair.

So that meant OU was wiped out instantly as an option. Some of their theoretical modules would probably be fine for the theoretical aspects of physics such as quantum, but definitely not for mechanics, light etc.

Also where I live the closest university (with suitable modules) is 1 hour 40 away from me. Stumbling block number 2.

However I enrolled in NUIM in Sept 13 as an occasional student, and registered for all the second year physics modules in their Science Education degree which is 20 credits.

Even if I had wanted to, I wasn't allowed do any first year modules as I had them done in first year in my original degree.

My school worked my timetable last year so I had a half day so I could attend the lab each week. The college uses moodle and all the lecture notes are up there so I don't attend lectures (due to geography). I did all the second year modules last year.

This year I am enrolled in all of the third year physics module in the Science Ed degree, another 20 credits. I asked if I could do 2 of the fourth year ones at the same time so I could get them out of the way but they said no, which is fair enough, and realistically it would have been a hell of a workload. I'm at the same craic again this year, half day from school worked into my timetable so I can attend college once a week.

I'll be back there next year to complete some fourth year modules to make up the remaining credits and hit the topics I don't have.

I chose to follow the modules of that degree because the degree is recognised for physics (and their other science electives) by the TC so I figured it would cause me a lot less grief when it comes to assessment.

I'm coming from a maths, chemistry, software engineering background, so while the material is manageable some of it is quite tough. I'm sitting here looking at circuit diagrams in electronics at the moment, doing an assignment and my head is fried.



In a nutshell, this is working for me and I hope I don't have any issues next year registering the subject. There is no straightforward path.

Also to register for Junior Science, I think you have to have at least 10 credits each of biology, chemistry and physics in your degree.

PM if you want to ask anything else specific.

Thanks for such a comprehensive reply given your hectic schedule! Great to have insight from someone who actually knows what they are on about, so thanks!

I suppose where I'm coming from is in relation to the highly competitive job market that's out there at the minute - was speaking with my principal earlier this year and he is all for teachers completing further training (and rightly so) in order to distinguish themselves from their competitors - it's hard to know what's the best route to go - everybody tells me that HE teachers 'are as rare as hen's teeth' yet it's proving hard to get any decent type of contract - my reckoning is that if I had another subject, well then that's something that a principal could possibly avail of in the future if needed - I don't know?