Wrestling Revolution

CMpunked

This is going to undoubtedly fail..





:P



Spanner + Works = this post :pac:

rovert

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Yes. You seem to be implying that because he has read the wrestling observer, that will help him as a booker.

I'm not denying it won't help, but it will only be of minimal importance when running a show like this. There's a list of things a writer needs when setting off on a project like this, and reading a news letter on the subject is so far down the list as to become minimal.

Yep product knowledge and understanding the history the business is a minimal concern. :rolleyes:

Charisteas

rovert wrote: »

With that said what is wrong with Dave's opinion? He is extremely smart about the business and has spent days & days on the phone with every major promoter in modern history. Dave often repeats the idioms he gained from people as far back as Paul Boech and Sam Muschnik.

I know he was a ringside judge at a UFC show once, but has it ever been asked as to why Dave has never tried his hand in the business himself as a booker or promoter or even just as a creative guy backstage, or is he just happy being a journo?

I read that he was a researcher for WWF for a short while, but it seems like he would be a great addition to any backstage team.

Lord TSC

rovert wrote: »

Yep product knowledge and understanding the history the business is a minimal concern. :rolleyes:

Tbh, I'd rank it well down the list. You can be the most knowledgable person in the world but if you don't understand the basics of promoting, writing, character building etc etc, then you're going nowhere. I'm sure Russo would say he's knowledgable about the business but we've seen what type of show he churns out. I'm sure there's many people on here and around the world who know a damn sight more than this guy, but that doesn't mean they'd be better equipped to run a show than him. But then that's a huge problem with the internet wrestling community; people think because they watch the show or have read about history that they can run a successful tv show/business.

Charisteas

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Tbh, I'd rank it well down the list. You can be the most knowledgable person in the world but if you don't understand the basics of promoting, writing, character building etc etc, then you're going nowhere. I'm sure Russo would say he's knowledgable about the business but we've seen what type of show he churns out.

He churns out a show watched by 1.5 million people in the US and 250,000 people in the UK every week

Lord TSC

Personally, I'd say TNA does those stats in spite of Russo <_<

rovert

Charisteas wrote: »

I know he was a ringside judge at a UFC show once, but has it ever been asked as to why Dave has never tried his hand in the business himself as a booker or promoter or even just as a creative guy backstage, or is he just happy being a journo?

I read that he was a researcher for WWF for a short while, but it seems like he would be a great addition to any backstage team.

He is happy being a journalist. He makes a lot of money doing what he is doing.

The WWF researcher role was a bull**** role that really was just an attempt to co-opt him and what he was doing. He gets consulted on match finishes, promos and characters by wrestlers so he is probably fulfilled by that.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Tbh, I'd rank it well down the list. You can be the most knowledgable person in the world but if you don't understand the basics of promoting, writing, character building etc etc, then you're going nowhere.

Sweet mother of god lads, seriously. Yet again THAT IS MY POINT. Ive NO idea why you rank down product knowledge and then in the next sentence emphasis promotional basics. Those two sentences are so confusing and conflicting to a near mind boggling degree.

Product knowledge, the history of the business & the basics of promoting, writing, character building etc etc are ALL intertwined and ALL are explained, discussed, demonstrated etc in the Wrestling Observer.

I am just amazed that you guys are struggling with getting something that is relatively simple, this board is better than this.

Lord TSC

I'm not struggling to understand. I disagree with you on the importance of reading a newsletter when it comes to judging someones ability to book a wrestling show. I think "reads a newsletter" should not be anywhere near a guys CV when it comes to discussing why he has potential to be a good writer.

Regardless, it's pretty obvious we're just having a petty bicker now that's going nowhere so can we just get back on topic of the Project.

Wonder who else they'll sign up to this. They're getting a good mix of seasoned vets, people who deserved more than they got and rookies wanting to make a name for themselves.

Diabhal Beag

I think ye are underestimating the level of importance with newsletters lads IMO. The most basic booking knowledge eludes a lot of promoters these days (just watch TNA). Not saying Meltzer or Keller are the be all and end all but they do have more knowledge than probably anybody else in regards to the industry (Foley credits the Observer for his exposure). A lot of you guys here are kind of underestimating newsletters when you're the same people who post links to Wrestlezone, 411mania etc.

Now the promoter has included Devitt so he must have a bit of knowledge in fairness. He has a steady of roster with names. I'd have a bit of hope that this could be a ROH-level promotion.

rovert

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm not struggling to understand. I disagree with you on the importance of reading a newsletter when it comes to judging someones ability to book a wrestling show. I think "reads a newsletter" should not be anywhere near a guys CV when it comes to discussing why he has potential to be a good writer.

I am begging people to stop using strawmen where did I mention CVs? Where did I mention using it to judging someones ability to book a wrestling show? Stating the same thing over and over again to you guys is getting really tiresome please at least make an attempt to actually read what I post instead of going off about CVs and Stephen King.

Im not sure if you have even the Observer as you havent stated that.

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I think ye are underestimating the level of importance with newsletters lads IMO. The most basic booking knowledge eludes a lot of promoters these days (just watch TNA). Not saying Meltzer or Keller are the be all and end all but they do have more knowledge than probably anybody else in regards to the industry (Foley credits the Observer for his exposure). A lot of you guys here are kind of underestimating newsletters when you're the same people who post links to Wrestlezone, 411mania etc.

Mike Quackenbush, Gabe Sabpolsky, Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman, Konnan just to name a few have all been big time Wrestling Observer readers.

Charisteas

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Wonder who else they'll sign up to this. They're getting a good mix of seasoned vets, people who deserved more than they got and rookies wanting to make a name for themselves.

X-Pac, Chris Masters, Matt Hardy, and Harry Smith could all be looking for a spot on the roster.

Although I still think Masters may end up on the American Wrestling Rampage tour in October.

Lord TSC

I'm wondering at this stage if there's a seperate topic for some of this to be split off into. Something like "What makes a good promoter?" cause I'm worried ths is drawing away from actual discussion of WRP now...

rovert wrote: »

I am begging people to stop using strawmen where did I mention CVs? Where did I mention using it to judging someones ability to book a wrestling show? Stating the same thing over and over again to you guys is getting really tiresome please at least make an attempt to actually read what I post instead of going off about CVs and Stephen King.

When we were discussing the guy who was setting this up and running this, I stated that people shouldn't just have blind faith in the guys ability. You responded (Post 33)...

Again it is an Arthouse Wrestling "promotion" with someone with a real film background, who HAS actual money and who is a long time Wrestling Observer reader.

Not some dude with a cheap website and a facebook operating out of his Ma's bedroom.

You listed off reasons why this guy is qualified to run a promotion. You stated three reasons why we should trust the guy based on who he is and his past experience. You listed off a CV. Even if you don't want to call it a CV, you listed off three reasons people should trust him and one was he reads the Observer. And while I don't deny it's not important to have some level of wrestling knowledge, all I'm saying is there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who also read the Observer and whom I wouldn't trust to run an efed, let alone a proper promotion.

I'm not saying he's going to fail. I'm not saying he's unqualified. I'm not saying the newsletter is bad or doesn't provide a very good service. I'm saying that reading a newsletter does not matter if you dont know how to write a show, if you don't have the contacts nessecary to run a show, if you don't have a way to distrubte the show and if you don't have money to run a show. And it certainly doesn't matter at all if you don't have the mind to absorb that info the newsletter discusses and put it to good use. On a list of important characteristics a promoter should have, knowledge of the product is about 6th or 7th on the list. On top of that, I'd rate "Knowledge gained from a newsletter" as about 3rd down a sub list, with "Knowledge gained from first hand experience" and "knowledge gained from second hand experience through talking to other promoters, wrestlers and agents" above it. Newsletters provide third hand experience and that's why it's dangerous.

People read newsletters and think they can run shows. I engage in that as well; fantasy booking revolves around that idea. All I'm saying though is that doesn't mean any of us could run a show ourselves. You need a wide, wide mix of abilities to promote a show.

Hopefully Jeff Katz has those many abilities.

Lord TSC

And yeah, I reckon Masters and DH Smith would fit what they're going for pretty well.

I think there's only 6 more people to be announced anyway

rovert

Teamshadowclan in short you are arguing and making points to address things I have never said.

I never said reading the Observer automatically makes you a good promoter.

I never said that it is a reason we should trust him.

And so on and so on to an ever so tiresome degree. Id rather you ask me to elaborate or give me questions on what I am saying instead of going off on comments no one in this thread has made.

Am I not being clear here? As the same thing has been happening over and over in this thread. As Ive said in the past I hold this place to a higher standard than most. Seriously lads WTF here?

Lord TSC

Ok, whatever. I'm done. I'm just going to stick to posting the roster as it pops up.

jaykhunter

I sure as hell didn't miss conversations like this when I was doing my finals.

Best of luck to Jeff Katz & WRP. As everyone else in this thread does, I hope this is an unmitigated success.

rovert

The first producer not only reads the Wrestling Observer he is contributor to the website
http://www.geekweek.com/2011/09/producing-a-wrestling-revolution-producer-1.html

Lance T. Storm

Charisteas

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm wondering at this stage if there's a seperate topic for some of this to be split off into. Something like "What makes a good promoter?" cause I'm worried ths is drawing away from actual discussion of WRP now...

"What makes a good promoter?"

Sounds like a good idea for a thread to me.

Lord TSC

rovert wrote: »

The first producer not only reads the Wrestling Observer he is contributor to the website
http://www.geekweek.com/2011/09/producing-a-wrestling-revolution-producer-1.html

Lance T. Storm

Awesome. I really love Storm's blogs (thought I've not read them recently) and I can't wait to see what the guy can do with a producers hat on.

Charisteas

Storm was on the Live Audio Wrestling podcast last Sunday.

http://www.fightnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/LAW-SEPT4-2011.mp3

rovert

Dave Meltzer on known Observer readers Heyman and Cornette

The last time Heyman was the head writer on Smackdown, Smackdown was drawing more viewers than Raw.

The last time Cornette was on the creative team in WWF was 1997, which creatively was one of the best years in history and the year that set the stage for their biggest boom period ever.

And again, both men would book a national company very different than in the past. Unlike Russo & Eric, who can't admit to their failings and only copy the same ideas with the same guys that are proven failures, Cornette & Heyman would push younger guys.

There is a chance either or both wouldn't work out today and I'm not trying to say either is a savior or anything like that.

But they are both intelligent and both had the ability to learn from their mistakes, which most in wrestling don't. And again, they would all do things differently now than they did in the past.

I've talked to a lot of the WWE writers of the last decade and to Heyman and Cornette. For the most part, and there are absolutely exceptions, when it comes to knowing the business, what works and doesn't, crowd psychology, building a match, it's the difference between Einstein and Alvin of the Chipmunks.

Not to say Einstein could book under Vince in 2011 either. But I wouldn't dismiss him as being smarter than a chipmunk.

:P

waltersobchak

Honestly, whats Heyman, Meltzer, and Cornette got to do with Wrestling Revolution??

thebostoncrab

waltersobchak wrote: »

Honestly, whats Heyman, Meltzer, and Cornette got to do with Wrestling Revolution??

At this stage I think Rovert is just looking to agitate people, hence why I stopped commenting. Trying to put down the knowledge of members was what sent the alarm bells personally.

jaykhunter

Lads if someone's píssing you off or you think it's overstepping the boundaries of agreed conversation :

1) just ignore the poster in that thread or
2) report the posts and mod(s) will have a look at it

Please do these first -- discussing if someone's trolling is an insult and that's when warnings/infractions start being given out. TBC i know you're technically just answering a question but you should know better than to basically accuse him of trolling - last warning.

mods will be keeping an eye on this thread. if you can't discuss cordially, just ignore that poster; give your opinion to others. From this post on, any jabs at other members won't be tolerated and will result in bans.

rovert

Lads I posted it as a joke hence the :P

Good grief

waltersobchak wrote: »

Honestly, whats Heyman, Meltzer, and Cornette got to do with Wrestling Revolution??

Read the thread and previous discussion. I actually dont as you were part of the discussion later in the thread and should know what I am getting at.

thebostoncrab wrote: »

At this stage I think Rovert is just looking to agitate people, hence why I stopped commenting. Trying to put down the knowledge of members was what sent the alarm bells personally.

Well you think wrong. I am not looking to agitate people it was a joke hence the :P. Where did I put down the knowledge of members if anything I put it over multiple times in this thread? Please dont play that card.

This place seemed to lose the plot when I suggested someone reading the Wrestling Observer a long period of time was good thing given the current and historical knowledge/information contained within. I guess this was me putting down the knowledge of members. :rolleyes:

Despite repeating myself multiple times that I never said that it would automatically make you a good promoter people kept on saying that I did yet apparently I am the one agitating people? Come off it thebostoncrab.

thebostoncrab

Just looking at the roster, since it is almost complete, what feuds would ye like to see come out?

Personally I can see the following feuds (Not including guys I'm not up to date with):

Kenny Omega vs. Prince Devitt

Luke Gallows vs. Sami Callihan

Colt Cabana vs. Mike Rollins

Amaing Red vs. Kenny Dystrka

MVP vs. Daivari (Only because I get the feelings these two will be the main players)

jaykhunter

it'll be great to see Devitt on american soil. i think he'd be a fantastic addition to tna but sure he's not over 40 or an ex-fed guy. Kenny Omega's pretty talented too.

V interested to see what they'd do with MVP. Can't stand Daivari personally. I think the absolute lowest common denominator foreign heel heat has been played out to death.

thebostoncrab

The thing with the roster is that there so many guys that would bring out the very best in each other that kind of leaves MVP without an obvious rival. I guess it makes it more exciting since it makes sense for him to be the figure head of the company and gives the perfect chance Katz to make someone a bigger name in the States.

jaykhunter

i wonder without a proper tv deal, what the potential audience size be? I'd have to think maybe 100,000? I am pulling that figure out of my ass but i think it's just the IWC, how would regular folk (that just watch the tv show, that's it) ever hear of this? Maybe much lower?

Lord TSC

The interesting thing to see will be what characters they all get given. There's a lot of great potential there match-wise but it could be their gimmicks which determine who gets to fight who and when.

I'd also say something like Omega vs Devitt, which you know will be awesome, might not feature that much in series one; they make take the attitude of leaving the obvious dream matches until later on in the shows run in order to build up anticipation.

That is, of course, if they are confident they will do more than the inital 13 episodes. I guess they could say "We've got one chance so let's throw everything at the wall"...