Atheism or Naturalism?

kylith

marti8 wrote: »

Well, I am saying both are equal until one is proven. I cannot prove I saw a ghost, others cannot prove what I experienced was say a waking dream or a misfiring in the brain or for that matter someone from an alternate dimension or from the future. So in that sense until one is proven all are equal, yes.

I've lost my keys. It's an equal chance that they either fell down the side of the sofa, or that the KGB has snuck in and stolen them.

Dades

^^ In Soviet Russia - keys lose you.

Sarky

Why is 6 afraid of 7, comrade?

Because 7 have many friends Politburo.

Joe1919

Undergod wrote: »

I don't outright reject the existence of everything considered supernatural, though I do tend towards doubt on every such topic I can think of. I would, however, say that I deny the existence of the supernatural, in that I don't think the word supernatural can be used to describe anything that exists.

If ghosts, to take an example of something that is considered supernatural, do in fact exist, then they must be able to interact with physical material. If they interact with physical matter, then they must be subject to physical laws- therefore they are natural, not supernatural.

Even a human seeing them counts as interacting with physical objects. And they may very well operate under physical laws we don't yet know or understand (though I must stress, I don't think this is the case, nor is their any reason I know of to think it is the case), but they are still subject to them.

If they don't follow any natural laws, then they can't interact with anything, so I don't think they can be said to exist in any meaningful way.

There is often considered to be a class of objects of consciousness that have no material independent existence as such but exist in the mind as phantasia ( mental images, dreams, and hallucinations.)

They are real in the sense that they can provide the impulse for action. They are natural and not supernatural. Ghosts (imo) belong to this class (along with mental images, dreams, and hallucinations etc.).

Undergod

If they exist in the mind, then they are still essentially physical - they are the result of events that occur in a physical system.

Sarky

Generally the brain seeing a pattern that isn't there, or one that relates to some other memory pattern. Sometimes a brain just screws up. Deja vu often occurs because the brain's sense of past and present throws a wobbly. The subconscious can interfere with the bits that process sight, and you see things out of the corner of your eye, or misread a word or even fail to see something right in front of you.

Brains do this stuff all the time. Completely natural. When it happens a computer the result is usually a fatal crash. Brains have a better recovery system. Well, it'll stop the fatal crashes, but you'll end up with anomalies like memories of things that never happened or forgetting something or believing in ghosts.

CerebralCortex

Indeed I've on many occasions mistaken inanimate objects for people.

liamw

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Indeed I've on many occasions mistaken inanimate objects for people.

Until she deflated