Motorway Tractor-Watch

serfboard

I know there's already a thread about bizarre things on Motorways, but I'm wondering if there's many takers for a tractor-on-Motorway-watch? If not, obviously it'll wither and die. The only rule is that the road in question must be a motorway (so e.g. Athlone bypass is not included).

Anyway, to kick it off, my spot was two weeks ago, June 4th on the M18 between Junctions 14 and 12 heading south. Tried to see if there was a number plate on it, but there wasn't (on the back, at any rate - wondering if this is illegal too?). I reckoned by the time I'd have stopped to call the Guards and they'd have investigated the tractor would have long ago turned off.

(PS. If anyone wants to post cyclists on motorways they'd be welcome too, and I'll rename the thread).

jimmynokia

rename the thread

Things on motorway that should not be.:D


here are the rules.

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/motorway.html

veryangryman

In fairness to the farmers, it doesnt get done so much now that most Motorways are long stretches. Most farmers arent going >20 miles so usually they use the local roads.

Athlone bypass, legal or not, is becoming a death trap day by day with the remaining on it. Being legal doesnt make it right

roosterman71

Was the tractor you seen doing less than 50km/h? If not, its perfectly entitled to be there

Empire o de Sun

It isn't if it's not a registered road vehicle.

veryangryman

roosterman71 wrote: »

Was the tractor you seen doing less than 50km/h? If not, its perfectly entitled to be there

It could go 5km/h and still be legal. I could also sleep in a pothole and itd be legal. It just wouldnt be right and would be downright dangerous.

"The law" and "common sense" are not the same thing.

flazio

Could someone explain why letting tractors on the Athlone bypass is a death waiting to happen? You have an overtaking lane to pass the tractor on, you are only supposed to drive at a speed that allows you to stop safely in an emergency, you should never drive at high speeds and just expect the road ahead to be clear regardless of what class of road you're driving on. You have plenty of vision of an upcoming slow vehicle, and if you don't, you're the one driving too fast.

veryangryman

flazio wrote: »

Could someone explain why letting tractors on the Athlone bypass is a death waiting to happen? You have an overtaking lane to pass the tractor on, you are only supposed to drive at a speed that allows you to stop safely in an emergency, you should never drive at high speeds and just expect the road ahead to be clear regardless of what class of road you're driving on. You have plenty of vision of an upcoming slow vehicle, and if you don't, you're the one driving too fast.

1. Motorway to the east and west side would make for quite a shock to long distance travellers when encountering such a vehicle. In situations where say..

Junctions 8-9 westbound (Garycastle/Blyry Exit) with poor sightlines, driver might encounter...

Tractor doing 50kph
Overtaking lorry doing 80-90kph

2. Tourists who are going long distance and dont know the roads. Say they were driving across Europe. Ever done the M4 from London to Wales? Can rip it up with few if any parts to slow for may be in for quite a shock also.

Im not saying that the tractors on their own cause the accidents. Im saying that they are one ingredient in a "perfect storm" situation. Why cant they go through town? I mean really. How do Tractors get around Naas for instance? Is there really any benefit to a slow vehicle going a longer distance and taking more time for themselves? Its arrogance like this from the farmers that makes me feel like its Karma that the Tescos of this world are sticking it to them

The sooner this is redesignated a motorway (and enforced) the better.

Cookie_Monster

wheeled digger spotted coming off the M11 southbound at Fassaroe yesterday.

something like this
http://catexcavatorss.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Wheeled-Excavator.jpg

can't imagine that he was doing more than about 25-30

D.L.R.

Sure what do you expect when our police force is a bunch of would be farmers themselves? They allow this shyte.

AugustusMinimus

For every tractor I've seen on a motorway, I've seen 5 cyclists.

veryangryman

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

For every tractor I've seen on a motorway, I've seen 5 cyclists.

Really? Ive never seen a cyclist on a Motorway in this country. Not even one. DCs yes, Motorways no.

Zubeneschamali

A dog ran across the M6 in front of me the other day. Jumped over the centre divider into my lane.

Must be a law against it. Penalty points on his dog license. Harumph.

AugustusMinimus

veryangryman wrote: »

Really? Ive never seen a cyclist on a Motorway in this country. Not even one. DCs yes, Motorways no.

At a guess, I've seen a tractor twice on a motorway.

On the other hand, I often drive on the M8 between Mitchelstown and Cork and often see cyclists on it, especially between Watergrasshill and Cork. Wether it's the same cyclists I don't know.

mayo23

veryangryman wrote: »

It could go 5km/h and still be legal. I could also sleep in a pothole and itd be legal. It just wouldnt be right and would be downright dangerous.

"The law" and "common sense" are not the same thing.

Any vehicle capable of a speed of at least 50 km/h may use a motorway, even if its a tractor. However, I'm not sure many people realise that there is a de facto minimum speed limit on the motorways of 50 km/h.

Learner drivers aren't allowed on motorways and recieve no training on how to behave on them once they pass the test, so its no wonder there are a lot of idiots using them.:mad:

veryangryman

mayo23 wrote: »

Any vehicle capable of a speed of at least 50 km/h may use a motorway, even if its a tractor. However, I'm not sure many people realise that there is a de facto minimum speed limit on the motorways of 50 km/h.

Learner drivers aren't allowed on motorways and recieve no training on how to behave on them once they pass the test, so its no wonder there are a lot of idiots using them.:mad:

Agree - but my point you quoted was on the Athlone bypass, which sadly is not a motorway. Im founding a bounty hunters club this week to nuke any tractors on the bypass. PM for membership. :cool:

L1011

mayo23 wrote: »

Any vehicle capable of a speed of at least 50 km/h may use a motorway, even if its a tractor. However, I'm not sure many people realise that there is a de facto minimum speed limit on the motorways of 50 km/h.

A tractor capable of doing 50km/h isn't allowed use agri diesel and they aren't allowed use the h/s no matter what. 99% of tractors on motorways are doing both.

roosterman71

MYOB wrote: »

A tractor capable of doing 50km/h isn't allowed use agri diesel

Where does it say that?

And nothing is allowed to drive on the hard shoulder.

veryangryman

roosterman71 wrote: »

Where does it say that?

From wiki...

Similarly, "untaxed" diesel (sometimes called "off-road diesel") is available in some countries for use primarily in agricultural applications, such as fuel for tractors, recreational and utility vehicles or other noncommercial vehicles that do not use public roads. Additionally, this fuel may have sulphur levels that exceed the limits for road use in some countries (e.g. USA).


Now get off the road ya maniac!

L1011

roosterman71 wrote: »

Where does it say that?

The fuel duty rules. Look them up yourself.

Tractors are only allowed use marked diesel on public roads if they have a <50km/h gearbox fitted.

You can use all the agri diesel you want in a JCB Fastrak assuming its not taken on public roads.

roosterman71

MYOB wrote: »

The fuel duty rules. Look them up yourself.

Tractors are only allowed use marked diesel on public roads if they have a <50km/h gearbox fitted.

You can use all the agri diesel you want in a JCB Fastrak assuming its not taken on public roads.

Bull

Marked Gas Oil (MGO)

This is diesel which has benefited from a reduced rate of Mineral Oil Tax, granted on the basis that it may not be used in motor vehicles. This oil is infused with both a chemical dye (Ireland’s national fiscal marker) and a solvent (a fiscal marker common to all EU Member States called the “Euromarker”) for identification purposes to deter use of the oil in motor vehicles and assist detection of such misuse. The marked oil has a greenish colour and is colloquially known as “green-diesel”.




Principal uses of Marked Gas Oil


MGO may not be used as a propellant for a motor vehicle. The term “motor vehicle” does not include agricultural tractors, road rollers, off-road dumpers, mobile cranes, mobile well-drilling equipment, mobile concrete pumping equipment and vehicles not designed, constructed or modified for use on roads. Therefore these excluded vehicles may legitimately use MGO as fuel including for use as a propellant. With the exception of “road roller” (a term that is self-explanatory) each of the specifically excluded vehicles is defined. (See Appendix 1 for definitions)

Marked Gas Oil may also be legitimately used for heating purposes (domestic & commercial/industrial) and for stationary motors such as air-compressor machines, electricity generators, and other machinery.

See attached document I received from the RSA

L1011

roosterman71 wrote: »

Bull



See attached document I received from the RSA

An "agricultural tractor" cannot have a >50km/h gearbox fitted or else it is no longer an agricultural tractor, it is a road tractor. An agricultural tractor by definition has a <50km/h gearbox.

Don't call bull when you're ill informed.

L1011

Actually seems that the limit for being an "agricultural tractor" from an excise perspective is 40.3km/h (25mph) maximum design speed, going on a 1973 Excise amendment to the 1952 Finance Act.

Either way, a tractor on agri CANNOT be used on a motorway by virtue of this.

david4791

REMEMBER THE JCB "FASTTRACK" IS ALLOWED ON MOTORWAYS AS IT TRAVELS AT 80KPH, NOT A TRACTOR AS WE KNOW IT BOSS

L1011

david4791 wrote: »

REMEMBER THE JCB "FASTTRACK" IS ALLOWED ON MOTORWAYS AS IT TRAVELS AT 80KPH, NOT A TRACTOR AS WE KNOW IT BOSS

...again, only if its running on road diesel.

roosterman71

Not once in here does it say anything about <50km/h not been allowed use MGO

So where is this definition that an agricultural tractor must be fitted with a gearbox of less than 50km/h?

L1011

i already told you what statutory instruments defined it. Read my posts rather than calling bull when you're in the wrong.

Random documents from people who have nothing to do with fuel excise do not constitute 'proof', nor does their omission of info mean your incorrect position becomes correct

Aidan1

Actually MYOB, the Dept of Transport recently admitted that there was nothing to stop a tractor capable of doing 50km/h from using Motorways - there is an amendment to the Road Traffic Acts pending to deal with this lacuna*.

As for your legal basis, the Finance Act of 1973 (not an S.I.) does contain a speed limited definition for 'agricultural tractor', however this definition has been repeatedly superceded by a less specific definition - here's the one from the Finance Act, 1999, for example;

“agricultural tractor” means a mechanically propelled vehicle which is designed or constructed primarily for use for agricultural purposes;
Taking the two together, 50kmh tractors can use the motorway, and can use 'green diesel' on the public road.

And it's 'Fastrac' btw.

Here's a reference from the RSA, posted previously on Boards.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67559445&postcount=51

L1011

I don't see any repeal of that specific section in the Finance Act 1999.

My point is that there is clearly nothing to stop a tractor that can do 50km/h using the motorway - once it is registered, obeying lane disciplne, correctly lit and using road diesel - but that customs & excise rules (not Trasnport or RSA related) forbid the use of marked gas oil in vehicles above a certain design speed. This is a customs issue so its not for the Guards to be dealing with and definitely nothing the RSA care about.

That most tractors I see on motorways have no reg plates, are in the H/S and are badly lit gives three things the Guards can go after without needing customs involved.

Aidan1

I don't see any repeal of that specific section in the Finance Act 1999.

You don't 'repeal' a definition in primary legislation, you merely replace it. Therefore a definition from the 1950s cannot 'trump' a more recent one merely by its superior vintage (or greater specificity). The application of the excise rules are subject to the conditions of the Finance Act that are in place at any given time - given that the Act is effectively rolled over year on year, the last use of any definition is the one that counts.

If you check the definitions in the document that Roosterman posted, you will see that the definition of 'Agricultural Tractor' that Revenue use is the same as the one I posted from the 1999 Finance Act. This means that the same definition is used in national law and in the administrative rules; there is no grey area here (unless you can find an even more recent definition that has that specificity re-introduced?).

In reality, all of this should have been resolved years ago - tractors shouldn't be allowed on Motorways, regardless of speed, and they shouldn't be allowed use MGO for the range of non-agricultural activities that many presently do, but both of the above will require legislative change.

hi5

I once saw a tractor and silage trailer filling up at a filling station,it looked really odd queing up with the micras and Focus's:) I'd presumed he had run out.